11-03-15 03:55 PM
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  1. RyanGermann's Avatar
    This is partially an open letter to Bla1ze, but also an open letter to BlackBerry 10 fans, and other members of CrackBerry.com.

    On the BerryFlow upstream podcast, Bla1ze was asked about the inevitable Priv review that he would be writing, and Bla1ze said (I'm paraphrasing here) between comparing the Priv as an Android device to other Android devices and comparing the Priv as a device to BlackBerry 10 devices, Bla1ze's review would "have to find some balance between the two".

    Playing devil's advocate here... why?

    This is CrackBerry. There are dozens of other sites that will do reviews of the Priv based on it's Android cred (AndroidCentral.com for one) so I have to ask why it is necessary for the review on CrackBerry to be "balanced" vis a vis other Android handsets. Those reviews will be done, and, if CrackBerry's editorial position remains conflicted, CrackBerry could even write two completely distinct reviews (but I would suggest that the Android-to-Android review would be a collaboration between Phil and Bla1ze and could actually be a vertical integration opportunity between CrackBerry and AndroidCentral.

    Also, Bla1ze, you said "I don't want to put people off the device"?

    Again, devil's advocate... why?

    Do you see your role as official CrackBerry.com reviewer to (if not put people off the device) to turn people ON to the device? There have been a number of questions, including the PrivBerry AMA that have had a lot of questions about the nature of the BB apps on Android, including things like "is the file manager there", and on the podcast you said "there are plenty of other alternatives", but for a CrackBerry.com review of the Priv, you would be "remiss" not to mention whether or not it is possible to use something like Remote File Access... which is a competitive advantage of BB10 (sure it's debatable but let's not debate it here) and may or may not be available on Android. I think it serves your 'constituents' best to just lay the information out there and let the reader decide for themselves.

    Assuming the reviewer(s) who perform the review analysis on the Priv for CrackBerry bring to bear extensive knowledge of BlackBerry 10, the features of BB10 that are favoured by the BB10 enthusiast community at large... where other reviews will largely have no idea what the significant differences between BB10 and the Priv OS and apps will be, isn't CrackBerry's "mandate" to focus on how it compares to BB10 and leave the "comparing it to other Android devices" to other reviews, except with specific regard to addressing the privacy and security concerns that many have about dealing with an Android device?

    What expectations do other CrackBerry members have about the Priv review on Mobile Nations (CrackBerry.com and AndroidCentral.com) and should those expectations inform how the device is reviewed?

    I think so.
    Wmsi, Jackson15, rjkolo and 8 others like this.
    11-02-15 01:26 PM
  2. jope28's Avatar
    Agreed.
    CB readers are supposedly coming from BlackBerry devices, so imo it makes sense to have that viewpoint when reviewing the Priv for CB as opposed to reviewing it on Android Central.

    Maybe the Android sites should cover the view of coming from another Android device.

     Frosty White Q10/10.3.2.2789 CB10 
    denicoespadilla likes this.
    11-02-15 01:29 PM
  3. mithrazor's Avatar
    Hey B1aze I was thinking about this. Could you just review as a regular Android device, then add a section addressed to BB10 users and do a "BlackBerry" review under that section? Basically your take on what it's like for a BlackBerry user moving onto a Priv.

    I think that would be best. Or well, that's what I'd like to see.

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-15 01:32 PM
  4. jope28's Avatar
    Hey B1aze I was thinking about this. Could you just review as a regular Android device, then add a section addressed to BB10 users and do a "BlackBerry" review under that section? Basically your take on what it's like for a BlackBerry user moving onto a Priv.

    I think that would be best. Or well, that's what I'd like to see.

    Posted via CB10
    But shouldn't the "regular Android device" review be done by the ones that know Android the best (and sister site), Android Central?

     Frosty White Q10/10.3.2.2789 CB10 
    11-02-15 01:34 PM
  5. RyanGermann's Avatar
    But shouldn't the "regular Android device" review be done by the ones that know Android the best (and sister site), Android Central?
    It's up to each "property" of Mobile Nations to work that out, possibly independently, but also it would make sense for Phil and Chris to team up and make the Android review almost "conversational", but leave the technical specs and the BB10 comparisons to CrackBerry... also, if it's fair to say that most people who aren't BB10 users looking at the PKB and the security aspects of BlackBerry's Android aren't going to give a fart about how it isn't as good as BB10, but would rather appreciate a statement like "the Hub is a reasonable implementation of 'omni-notifications', but not as good as what comes native in Marshmallow..." etc. That's what I think Android fans will want to know: simply how it stacks up to other popular Android devices and apps that replicate or compete with BlackBerry's "productivity suite" that is included on the Priv at no extra cost.

    It occurs to me that there's an irony here: CrackBerry isn't sure how to review the device... it mirrors BlackBerry's own struggles with their own identity, in a way: if BlackBerry stuck with "being BlackBerry, not trying to be Apple" w.r.t. their device and device OS strategy, what would have happened? Likewise, it has been mentioned on CrackBerry that perhaps CrackBerry will experience a similar issue with "how does CrackBerry fit in to the tech fandom world now that BlackBerry is going Android" existential uncertainty?

    Speaking for myself, if I learned anything by being a very close observer of how things played out with BlackBerry, it is also what I learned from many children's books (and something I try with difficulty to adhere to as a gr'up): "To thine own self be true".
    11-02-15 01:40 PM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I understand that BlackBerry BB10 users are going to want COMPARISONS.... BB10 HUB, PRIV's HUB - BBM on BB10, BBM on the PRIV, Typing on the Passport or Classic vs typing on the PRIV. But then this is BlackBerry's LAST shot.... and the PRIV is a beta device at best, there is only so much BlackBerry could do in the time that they had. Not sure it will be fair to make comparisons, and thus spread a little negativity on a device that really can't afford it.

    I don't know if it wouldn't be better for the future of BlackBerry, to just let Android Central do the review from an Android standpoint.


    (but then I'm just assuming that the PRIV isn't going to provide a great experience for existing BlackBerry users... maybe it would be the winner in all of these comparison? Maybe Bla1ze won't have the first negative or Con in his review summary?)
    Chelmsford and Sparksx like this.
    11-02-15 01:46 PM
  7. mithrazor's Avatar
    But shouldn't the "regular Android device" review be done by the ones that know Android the best (and sister site), Android Central?

     Frosty White Q10/10.3.2.2789 CB10 
    I'd rather there be no reference to get a full review. I don't want to go to a different website to get the Android perspective. Then come back to CB for the BlackBerry perspective.

    I'd like CB to do a complete review. As an Android device first, then reviewed for BlackBerry features in a portion of the review.

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-15 01:46 PM
  8. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I'd rather there be no reference to get a full review. I don't want to go to a different website to get the Android perspective. Then come back to CB for the BlackBerry perspective.

    I'd like CB to do a complete review. As an Android device first, then reviewed for BlackBerry features in a portion of the review.
    I'm sorry, mithrazor, but does clicking a link in a browser to go to AndroidCentral, then clicking a link to come back to CrackBerry present some kind of "burden" for you? I don't understand the negative reasoning about going to a "different website". Do you have to, I don't know, "pay double" to ALSO go to AndroidCentral? Do you not trust AndroidCentral's (or any other tech analyst / publication) opinion of device hardware? If you're suggesting that the only review you INTEND to read is CrackBerry's, well... well.

    You don't have to clarify this but it doesn't really sound like a, um... legit reason for wanting CrackBerry's review to be "Android" focused... but you absolutely are entitled to make your vote count, as it were.
    11-02-15 01:54 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    The Priv is an Android device and should be reviewed as such.

    Otherwise the review would be more about the Android OS as opposed to the Priv specifically.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2789
    nonamenomore, walt63 and eldricho like this.
    11-02-15 01:57 PM
  10. dejanh's Avatar
    I too wish to see an unbiased, no holding back review of the device. I have never been more undecided about getting a new BlackBerry flagship. So much so that if PRIV does not turn out to be what I want, Passport would have been my last BlackBerry and I'm going to move full-time to iOS. Android as such does not and has never really interested me because productivity on it is extremely poor. I am looking to BlackBerry to turn this around by having strong integration of the HUB, and other productivity apps they are bringing across. Without those BlackBerry enhancements, this will just be another Android but with a keyboard.

    I guess what I am expecting from CrackBerry is to tell me how the PRIV is a BlackBerry, and looking to other sites to tell me how it is as an Android phone.
    FF22, epee and ppeters914 like this.
    11-02-15 02:00 PM
  11. Resilience's Avatar
    I have no doubt that the review will come to crackberry and it's sister site android authority. How they review it will be different for sure.
    11-02-15 02:01 PM
  12. Justin Couto's Avatar
    But shouldn't the "regular Android device" review be done by the ones that know Android the best (and sister site), Android Central?

     Frosty White Q10/10.3.2.2789 CB10 
    I feel like everyone working in whatever os site would have a good concept of each os. However that's just my assumption

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-15 02:02 PM
  13. mithrazor's Avatar
    I'm sorry, mithrazor, but does clicking a link in a browser to go to AndroidCentral, then clicking a link to come back to CrackBerry present some kind of "burden" for you? I don't understand the negative reasoning about going to a "different website". Do you have to, I don't know, "pay double" to ALSO go to AndroidCentral? Do you not trust AndroidCentral's (or any other tech analyst / publication) opinion of device hardware? If you're suggesting that the only review you INTEND to read is CrackBerry's, well... well.

    You don't have to clarify this but it doesn't really sound like a, um... legit reason for wanting CrackBerry's review to be "Android" focused... but you absolutely are entitled to make your vote count, as it were.
    Lol, extra steps to read a full review? I get they're sister sites, it's not even a big deal. But I'd like B1aze's review on the Android front, also on the BlackBerry features.

    Basically if I was a user that Googled Priv review. Clicked the link, and it's telling me to click another link to read the review I'm looking for.

    Sorry but wtf is that sh*t.

    I can click through 5 links and it wouldn't be a "burden" on me. But I hope you get the idea for a seamless user experience when visiting CB. It's bigger than just me really.

    Posted via CB10
    11-02-15 02:03 PM
  14. jope28's Avatar
    The Priv is an Android device and should be reviewed as such.

    Otherwise the review would be more about the Android OS as opposed to the Priv specifically.

    PassportSQW100-4/10.3.2.2789
    Hmm... with that mind set, then maybe the Android Central pplz know Android better. So that kind of ("..reviewed as such") review might need those expertise.

    So if it should be reviewed as "just" an Android device, then shouldn't it be an Android Central review and not CrackBerry's for it to be done right as just another Android (if that's what it should be)?

    I just hope for two different takes and different points of view from the two reviews (one CB's and the other Android Central).

    Then again, maybe I just enjoy reviews and want more than one review lol.

     Frosty White Q10/10.3.2.2789 CB10 
    Last edited by jope28; 11-02-15 at 02:52 PM.
    11-02-15 02:07 PM
  15. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure all that he meant was that it was going to be inevitable that he compare it to both. It would be a very incomplete review if it were anything other than that.

    I'm sure that we will find out all of the things that it doesn't do as well as BB10 but also, it really is worth knowing what it does better than Android. I don't really know what you are asking for with a review, but a review from "strictly" a BlackBerry comparison would probably be nothing but a bunch of bashing and negative aspects that the Priv isn't able to do as well as BB10. In the rest of the podcast, they went on to explain how most of the quirks that we might find on the Priv are due to the limitations of the Android OS, so I'm not sure how you want him to avoid talking about that in the review either.

    I look forward to the review and I'm sure that it will be very informative and 'balanced' as he is aiming for. If you want an exclusive comparison of the Priv from a BB10 perspective, I'm sure that you will get thousands of such in the forums here so don't worry. And they will all be extremely biased and more than likely negative.

    I know you've got this covered Bla1ze, but just for fun...

    "My advice to you: I know you think these guys are your friends. You wanna be a true friend to them? Be honest and unmerciful."
    -Lester Bangs, Almost Famous

    Posted via CB10
    Bla1ze likes this.
    11-02-15 02:10 PM
  16. boody78's Avatar
    In 4 more days there will be more reviews available then you can read. Relax.

    Posted via CB10
    kertong and bungaboy like this.
    11-02-15 02:13 PM
  17. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Android as such does not and has never really interested me because productivity on it is extremely poor. I am looking to BlackBerry to turn this around by having strong integration of the HUB, and other productivity apps they are bringing across. Without those BlackBerry enhancements, this will just be another Android but with a keyboard.
    dejanh, I think you are making a case for CrackBerry's review to be a sales-pitch for Android: CrackBerry is a fan site for BlackBerry fans, yet a lot of us to carry assumptions about what it means to adopt Android for our daily driver.

    Should CrackBerry take the position of patting us on the head and telling us "there, there... switching to Android isn't so bad..." which I think is part of what Bla1ze was talking about when he mentioned being (my word) unsure of what the tone of the review should be?

    I for one KNOW there are some far out ideas about what using Android for your daily driver means vis a vis privacy, but those are issues related to Google not directly to Android in and of itself (although it has been said elsewhere that to get the most out of Android you do have to be willing to go all-in on Google). So, perhaps there's room for a "how do I get the most out of and Android device as a BlackBerry user WITHOUT using all of Google's apps, and what do I give up?" Arguably, that kind of commentary on Android isn't just useful for BlackBerry users: it's useful for everyone wary of Android / Google and the blurry line between the two.... and that doesn't mean that Priv product review has to serve that purpose. I'm SO CONFUSED!
    Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.
    11-02-15 02:16 PM
  18. dejanh's Avatar
    dejanh, I think you are making a case for CrackBerry's review to be a sales-pitch for Android
    Quite the opposite in fact. I already know Android. I've used many Android flagships and I abandon them faster than any other platform. I want CrackBerry to tell me "how" the PRIV is in fact a BlackBerry. I want them to sell me a new BlackBerry, not an Android device. At the same time, I am a realist. BlackBerry 10 is dead. This means that I want open criticism of BlackBerry's latest effort with Android. I don't want things sugarcoated. I want to hear that the HUB on Android pales in comparison to the HUB on BlackBerry 10, if that is indeed the case. I don't want to hear any of "it works pretty good considering it is an Android".

    Don't use Android as a scapegoat for BlackBerry's deficiencies in their implementation of productivity features on Android. If they've done a good job, I want to hear it. If they've done a lousy job, I want to hear that too. For me at least this is a pivotal moment in my history with BlackBerry.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    11-02-15 02:24 PM
  19. RyanGermann's Avatar
    But I hope you get the idea for a seamless user experience when visiting CB. It's bigger than just me really.
    No, I don't get it. I also wouldn't get why there would be a review of Barbie's Dream Vacation Home Playset on CrackBerry.com, you know, in the interest of not requiring a CrackBerry reader to click away from the CrackBerry.com Website. I guess I just don't understand information architecture at all.

    Fine, you want your complete review all in one: that strikes me as an argument to review the Priv from the Apple users POV and the Windows Phone users POV as well, isn't it? I mean, detailed info about what an iPhone user will like or not like about the Priv, and what a Lumia 930 user will and won't like. Why make someone click over to Windows Central or iMore for those points of view either?
    11-02-15 02:26 PM
  20. early2bed's Avatar
    I'd like to pre-register a complaint that the BlackBerry review will be biased either for or against the Priv.
    LazyEvul and anon(8063781) like this.
    11-02-15 02:27 PM
  21. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Quite the opposite in fact. I already know Android. I've used many Android flagships and I abandon them faster than any other platform. I want CrackBerry to tell me "how" the PRIV is in fact a BlackBerry. I want them to sell me a new BlackBerry, not an Android device. At the same time, I am a realist. BlackBerry 10 is dead. This means that I want open criticism of BlackBerry's latest effort with Android. I don't want things sugarcoated. I want to hear that the HUB on Android pales in comparison to the HUB on BlackBerry 10, if that is indeed the case. I don't want to hear any of "it works pretty good considering it is an Android".
    Well, I agree with you on this... but perhaps I was thinking FOR CrackBerry instead of as a CrackBerry user when I posted this thread: that is, I just want to know how well it apes BB10 on Android, and if it doesn't do it well enough in specific areas (and from what I've read so far, it doesn't, but the jury's still out on whether it will ever be POSSIBLE to come close) then that's what I'm looking to find out.

    ...and this is the key detail: is it even POSSIBLE to get most of the highly-regarded core BB10 functionality into Android without violating whatever arbitrary self-serving Google license agreements restrict integration of new notification technologies or whatever else that will "fork" Android. Well, fork you, Google.

    From what has been said about the Hub on Android, it sounds like BlackBerry would need deep roots into the OS to do what the Hub can do on BB10, and I'm not sure about that, but could the review tell us that? That's what I'd like to know.

    I am not going to buy it at any rate, unless I'm convinced that my bias is erroneous that very idea of trying to bring BB10 to Android would fall short of my minimum requirements, so my selfish interest for the review is i.e. "Ok, convince me I'm wrong about how badly the Priv will fail at duplicating BB10 core functionality!" is in line with yours I think... and this is also what makes me think that the best hopes for the BB10 UX to live on will be on Windows 10 Mobile, where Microsoft isn't trying to rigidly control the ecosystem in the same way that Apple and Android do: a BlackBerry 10 skin on Windows 10 Mobile seems a lot more feasible than efforts put into doing that on either iOS or Android.

    Don't use Android as a scapegoat for BlackBerry's deficiencies in their implementation of productivity features on Android. If they've done a good job, I want to hear it. If they've done a lousy job, I want to hear that too. For me at least this is a pivotal moment in my history with BlackBerry.
    I couldn't have said it better.
    Asvertus likes this.
    11-02-15 02:32 PM
  22. 6stringriffs's Avatar
    RyanGermann,

    Your post is uncalled for in my opinion. You are just projecting your own feelings of (long known) hostility to BB's switch to an Android device, and what you perceive to be the abandonment of the BB10 OS (which is actually true). The CB Chief Editor can review the Priv any way he wishes to. And for him to be pulled one way or the other would be to compromise his integrity.

    Let him review the device the way he sees fit. It's up to the individual reader to decide if it adds or removes value to their life by consuming the content Let other sites (and videos) review it the way they want to also.

    Personally, I would just like an in depth description of all the BB features (i.e., DTEK, Hub, Picture Password, etc.) implemented in the device. I don't give a damn if swiping is not how you navigate to access an app but done a different way. As long as it takes the same amount of time and effort, but just different, I can adapt.
    Thud Hardsmack and Bla1ze like this.
    11-02-15 02:49 PM
  23. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Your post is uncalled for in my opinion. You are just projecting your feelings of (long known) hostility to BB's switch to an Android device, and what you perceive to be the abandonment of the BB10 OS (which is actually true). The CB Chief Editor can review the Priv any way he wishes to. And for him to be pulled one way or the other would be to compromise his integrity.
    Riiiiight. Well, I posted this because of the questions Bla1ze himself raised in the podcast. If I interpret this statement properly, you are suggesting I'm being "disrespectful" to Bla1ze? Well, I'm sure Bla1ze expects nothing more or less from me at this point, but I suppose I'll let him speak for himself, and this topic wasn't started to lure Bla1ze into a debate, far from it: getting CrackBerry's membership-at-large opinion is more to the point, and I, like anyone else, probably only get one "vote". CrackBerry management is going to set the tone in the manner that they think best fits with the brand, so I am bringing the larger aspect of Mobile Nations and other (competitor) reviews of the Priv that will surface. I am not trying to antagonize Bla1ze, but I don't... mind if I antagonize Bla1ze when discussion the editorial position of CrackBerry.com. I think if you are worried about antagonizing either CrackBerry or BlackBerry management when you post on CrackBerry.com, you are not doing yourself, CrackBerry, or BlackBerry any favours. If they need to sanction me for criticizing them, well, that's not Bla1ze's style, we all know that for certain, and I don't know that he needs anyone to stand up for him.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 11-02-15 at 03:05 PM.
    11-02-15 02:51 PM
  24. Rotkaeqpchen's Avatar
    I think many people think too complicated here. CrackBerry had a great review of the Q10 and BB10 when it came out and it's nothing else here in this case. I think Bla1ze is smart and experienced enough to review it responsively and open minded. He is a professional and it's not appropriate to advice him how to write his reviews.

    Posted via CB10
    southlander, bungaboy and Bla1ze like this.
    11-02-15 02:57 PM
  25. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Quite the opposite in fact. I already know Android. I've used many Android flagships and I abandon them faster than any other platform. I want CrackBerry to tell me "how" the PRIV is in fact a BlackBerry. I want them to sell me a new BlackBerry, not an Android device. At the same time, I am a realist. BlackBerry 10 is dead. This means that I want open criticism of BlackBerry's latest effort with Android. I don't want things sugarcoated. I want to hear that the HUB on Android pales in comparison to the HUB on BlackBerry 10, if that is indeed the case. I don't want to hear any of "it works pretty good considering it is an Android".

    Don't use Android as a scapegoat for BlackBerry's deficiencies in their implementation of productivity features on Android. If they've done a good job, I want to hear it. If they've done a lousy job, I want to hear that too. For me at least this is a pivotal moment in my history with BlackBerry.
    And what if Bla1ze can't really show you how it's better than BB10.... other than it has official access to Google Play. What if the HUB is a mess, what if you miss having BBM Videos, what if the file manager is missing, what if there is no BLEND, no remote file access, peak, flow, swipe? These would be negatives for all BB10 BlackBerry users.... but for the average Android user it would mean nothing as they didn't have those anyway.

    Maybe Bla1ze will do a general review... and then just do a Comparison Guide for those making the transition?
    southlander likes this.
    11-02-15 03:06 PM
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