[lylesilverman]

If you don't see the massive difference between Heins and Chen, then I can't really continue discussing the other stuff with you. We're talking about a grand canyon size difference.

Thorsten is a remnant from the very complacent BBRY/RIM where they just assumed that as long as they put the products out, they would sell because business needs BBRY. There was no fluidity or adaptability whatsoever.

[MO3iusONE]

This is why Chen will fail. He doesn't keep on loving me like Alec Saunders did..

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[KAM1138]

If you don't see the massive difference between Heins and Chen, then I can't really continue discussing the other stuff with you. We're talking about a grand canyon size difference.

Thorsten is a remnant from the very complacent BBRY/RIM where they just assumed that as long as they put the products out, they would sell because business needs BBRY. There was no fluidity or adaptability whatsoever.

If you were intending to address me, what I actually said was:
I see little difference in Chen and Heins. Both are utterly incompetent (or unwilling) to address the state of the Blackberry Brand. Thor I think tried, but failed. Chen doesn't even seem to think this is important.

My first sentence was stated poorly. I intended to compare them in regards to addressing the Brand and in marketing. In that arena I think they re both utter failures. I think this is a core issue which has led to this continued decline.

Thor was complacent about MARKETING--what they need to do to successfully sell their products, but he was NOT complacent in terms of the technology they were producing. The prior leadership is responsible for failing to adapt to the changing market in terms of actual technological offerings. BB10 was launched under Thor's leadership, and failed not because it wasn't a quality product, but because they failed miserably to educate their potential customers. Therefore the ecosystem fails to grow, and that image persists.

How in your view has Chen improved Blackberry's image and marketing? How has he improved communication with his customers or potential customers? I'd say that things are as low as they've ever been.

There was a time under Thor when at least Blackberry Fans were hopeful. I don't see that we've been given any information to make an informed decision about much of anything at all. Thor's leadership was horrible at marketing. Chen's is seemingly non-existent. So, I suppose they are in fact slightly different. Chen is even worse than Heins in this area.

KAM

[dusanvn]

Hello,

Yes, be sure to come back in a year and see how well the Slider "saved" Blackberry.

That's even more of a fantasy than BB10 spontaneously becoming a success.

Nothing matters unless Blackberry is able to effectively market their products, and there is absolutely zero sign of that changing. They are communicating NOTHING. Die hard fans of the brand are left feeling hopeless, so some grab at an audience that doesn't give a damn about the name "blackberry" other than to dismiss it as a joke is going to fail very, very hard.

KAM

I agree that the Venice will be most likely a failure. But I won't blame BlackBerry for marketing first.

Marketing is one of their big problems but it was never the primary problem. Their primary problem is their products. I mean devices and the whole ecosystem of third-party apps that they've failed to build. I mean HR, customer care, developer care, and R&D.

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[KAM1138]

I agree that the Venice will be most likely a failure. But I won't blame BlackBerry for marketing first.

Marketing is one of their big problems but it was never the primary problem. Their primary problem is their products. I mean devices and the whole ecosystem of third-party apps that they've failed to build. I mean HR, customer care, developer care, and R&D.

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I disagree that the Blackberry products are the problem, because BB10 is an excellent operating system with high functionality, and usability.
I agree that their ecosystem is a problem (for most consumers).

Why is it a problem for consumers? Because they know little else other than "apps are important." They are willing to accept a less functional, inferior product (meaning basic functions) out of ignorance. They have no idea how good a product BB10 is, because they never get beyond "app fever."

But WHY? I think it is directly linked to a dismal failure in marketing and educating consumers. Third Party Apps FOLLOW a market. If there are consumers with a NEED, then people will seek to fill it. If BlackBerry had successfully marketing their good product, then the Ecosystem would come along.

Blackberry could have used its Cash to address some of this directly, and insured that consumers had the apps they most desired (again market research would tell them that), and could build from there, but they didn't.

In short--they had Good (I think great) products. Their Marketing was a joke, and we can all see where that has ended up.

Here's further evidence. The Access to third Party apps has improved--Side loading of android Apps, and access to the Amazon App store does offer quite a lot more in terms of apps. Has this altered the course of Blackberry in a positive way? Not really, so there isn't a strong correlation there.
Ineffective, or non-existent marketing and lack of success with consumers continues to track quite closely it seems.

Launching a phone into an environment where you are considered a joke or where consumers literally thought your brand doesn't exist is a sure path to failure. You can put out great products and in that environment, it won't matter.



KAM

[dusanvn]

I'm from a developing country where few people can afford an iPhone or a Galaxy Note. BlackBerry is still a perfectly relevant option here. I know here quite a lot of former BlackBerry users. They've left BlackBerry because their Z10s got hot or short battery life, because their Classics ' screen soon became small, because their beautiful Passports ' keyboard soon proved uncomfortable, because their Android apps from Amazon or elsewhere simply don't work. They know BB10 and are aware of new BlackBerry products. They refuse to buy Passport SE or Venice because these new devices don't look nice/good enough. They refuse to buy BB10 because of lack of customization -- something to make their life easier, like this (attached image).



There are much, much more problems than just marketing. HR, R&D, developer care, customer care. Much work must be done before BlackBerry can build a good product. They can't just join a well-known keyboard layout to a well-known screen form factor of the year 1995 or 2005 into a new product and hope it can sell, even if with the best marketing. 'Cause right now, it' s 2015.



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[KAM1138]

There are much, much more problems than just marketing. HR, R&D, developer care, customer care. Much work must be done before BlackBerry can build a good product. They can't just join a well-known keyboard layout to a well-known screen form factor of the year 1995 or 2005 into a new product and hope it can sell, even if with the best marketing. 'Cause right now, it' s 2015.

I can't speak to the experience in other nations, but in the US, Blackberry is not even considered by most people, and that is due to a failure in marketing. They aren't even picking one up, and in many cases aren't even aware that they still make phones.

People literally state "I didn't even know they were in business anymore." Since I've gotten my passport, several people have stated this to me personally.

KAM

[Allanon89]

They refuse to buy BB10 because of lack of customization -- something to make their life easier, like this (attached image)

Do you have facts supporting this statement? If not, that's pure speculation. It might be a reason why *you* think BB10 is failing, but it's just a personal opinion. All the people I know with Androids just keep the default launcher, default lock screen, default everything. Their home screen becomes a duplicate of the application list as each newly installed app gets a shortcut on it as well. That's it. They just change wallpapers.
It's my opinion and my experience as well, I don't think of it as "the Truth", but let's keep real.
We can talk about serious stuff, lack of customisation in BB10 being outside this list and outside the leftovers as well. As a side note, iOS has about as much customisability as BB10 and is doing very well nevertheless.
BB10 has stuff making life easier that Android doesn't, and vice-versa. Your argument is invalid.
Sorry for the harshness.

[Allanon89]

People literally state "I didn't even know they were in business anymore."

+1
I asked a local electronics shop for a BlackBerry about two months ago and they said to me: "BlackBerry are not in business anymore". I replied that yes, they are. They admitted: "Yes, but they took a huge dip". So marketing is key here. People in shops will always happily offer me a Samsung instead, or a Huawei.

[KAM1138]

Hello,

I was referring to regular folks, but I also heard this from someone at T-Mobile (retail store), so stated openly that they didn't know Blackberry was making phones (even though they offer Classics to my recollection).

I went to a HUGE AT&T Store, and asked to see the AT&T Passport--never heard of it. I did find one store that actually did have it, so that might just be incompetence in those particular stores.

But I think it is fairly clear--BlackBerry devices are NOT front at center...anywhere, nor are they even on people's RADAR. So it is hard to deny that lack of marketing is an issue.

[ayngling]

I'm from a developing country where few people can afford an iPhone or a Galaxy Note. [...] They refuse to buy Passport SE or Venice because these new devices don't look nice/good enough.

A developing country with that many opinions on the aesthetics. Must be a nice place

[dusanvn]

Do you have facts supporting this statement? If not, that's pure speculation. It might be a reason why *you* think BB10 is failing, but it's just a personal opinion. All the people I know with Androids just keep the default launcher, default lock screen, default everything. Their home screen becomes a duplicate of the application list as each newly installed app gets a shortcut on it as well. That's it. They just change wallpapers.
It's my opinion and my experience as well, I don't think of it as "the Truth", but let's keep real.
We can talk about serious stuff, lack of customisation in BB10 being outside this list and outside the leftovers as well. As a side note, iOS has about as much customisability as BB10 and is doing very well nevertheless.
BB10 has stuff making life easier that Android doesn't, and vice-versa. Your argument is invalid.
Sorry for the harshness.

Sorry for not making it clear. Personally, I think BB10 still lives and will have its time (if BlackBerry continues development or at least maintenance). Lack of customization is not critical to me. I just wanted to point out that BB10 is not superior in absolutely all aspects and for absolutely all users. Lack of customization is one of two reasons I've heard from _former BlackBerry users_ regarding the OS (the second being Android compatibility). Many, if not all of them have customized their UI after switching to Android. The existence of plenty of launchers, themes, icon packs, status bar utilities and other customization tools in Android would be the 'facts' you're asking for.

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[eggbertx3]

Why is it a problem for consumers? Because they know little else other than "apps are important." They are willing to accept a less functional, inferior product (meaning basic functions) out of ignorance. They have no idea how good a product BB10 is, because they never get beyond "app fever."


I'll second that! Great point.



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[dusanvn]

A developing country with that many opinions on the aesthetics. Must be a nice place

Three persons have told me they're excited for the beauty of my Silver Passport, with a metal bezel that 'reminds them iPhone 4/4s'. At least half dozen persons have told me they dislike it because 'it's so ugly' (I guess they mind the form factor). What's worse is, I think they're both right! We live in a world where everyone's opinion can be influenced by everyone else.

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