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09-22-15 09:08 PM
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  1. Ulferini Schusterotti's Avatar
    John Chen is a wise man. A rational and intelligent man. And while those almost religious debates about BB10 vs. Android continue (imagine the war that must be going on behind closed doors at BlackBerry), John Chen stays cool, sits down and THINKS. On his desk there's a newspaper, the headline "NOKIA sold to Microsoft".

    Chen recaps the Nokia situation: Nokia had great smartphones and was heavily improving Symbian^3 with Anna and Belle. The Nokia E6 and E7 came out, they were selling good, just like the Passport and Classic are selling good. But were they doing great? No! Did people demand for apps? Yes! Did the mainstream move away from Symbian and Nokia? Yes! And then Microsoft came around.

    Do you see the parallels? Well, JOHN CHEN did and he thought: Well, how can we make a smartphone, that's not only different like the Passport, but will also be appealing to the masses out there? One that doesn't sacrifice screen space for a keyboard? One that is high end and sports a keyboard with capacitive touch where people won't think "this is so 2011". One that finally addresses the needs of corporate and enterprise customers as well as freelancers who really need those Android and iOS apps and lets not forget the games all of them want or need?

    And then he and his product team finally had the idea, the Silder was born, and it was the best decision BlackBerry has ever made. And according to the reactions out there, John Chen and his team were right. The Slider is here to save BlackBerry and will prevent the company and their employees and also BB10 (!) from going under like a Finnish company named NOKIA.
    Last edited by Ulferini Schusterotti; 09-21-15 at 03:09 AM.
    09-21-15 01:55 AM
  2. Allanon89's Avatar
    From your words it looks like you never followed what happened at Nokia at all.
    Nokia was still dominating the market share back then, and they were putting out many more phones a year than the E6 and E7. They were as far from the situation BB is in as a company can be!
    The only parallels are that officially Elop was hired by Nokia's BOD to save Nokia as well; and that the Devices and Services division went through a massive transition from providing an integrated software and hardware platform (multiple platforms actually) to being just another OEM, tied to an unsuccessful OS rather than the world-dominating Android. We all can see where it went.
    I'm not saying BB is going to fail that way - I'm just reminding you that if your argument is that Chen doesn't want to replicate Nokia's disaster, you'll have to keep in mind that he's making strangely similar moves to his Canadian, ex-Microsoft fellow.
    A thing John Chen has surely done better than Elop has been refraining from Osborning/Eloping the BB10 devices months before the Android slider was ready (the infamous, mo**nic Feb 11 memo).
    zocster and Blacklatino like this.
    09-21-15 02:34 AM
  3. Ulferini Schusterotti's Avatar
    Thanks for those additional infos. Of course I can only see what happened to Microsoft from an end users perspective.

    Posted via CB10
    Allanon89 and BerryRipe like this.
    09-21-15 02:37 AM
  4. zocster's Avatar
    Here we go again. I will entertain this for now.

    Sent from a note4 using Tapatalk
    09-21-15 02:59 AM
  5. Ulferini Schusterotti's Avatar
    Keep in mind this is not an BB10 vs Android thread, I just wanted to talk about parallels to NOKIA!

    Posted via CB10
    09-21-15 03:06 AM
  6. StutterStep's Avatar
    Nokia went down hill choosing Windows Phone which would be the way BlackBerry would continue to go if they stuck with only BB10.
    MO3iusONE likes this.
    09-21-15 03:25 AM
  7. Maxxxpower's Avatar
    just like the Passport and Classic are selling good.
    Best joke ever.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    09-21-15 03:50 AM
  8. Allanon89's Avatar
    Nokia went down hill choosing Windows Phone which would be the way BlackBerry would continue to go if they stuck with only BB10.
    Ok, OP has a fair point. You can look at Nokia from two POVs:
    1. (I suppose it's close to OP's and StutterStep's). They adopted an OS with no market share instead of going Android. One of the argument of Elop supporters at the time was "not enough differentiation is possible with Android" -> we can see how Nokia did -> BB is right in going with the majority OS.
    2. Nokia had finally got their act together with Symbian^3 and Belle after the disappointing S60v5 release. They had an almost ready new OS (MeeGo/Harmattan), which was very promising but had been delayed by previous mismanagement. In-house development was killed together with the possibility to offer a vertically integrated platform. They gave up all the immense software know how they had, throwing away the baby with the bathwater -> we can see how Nokia did -> BB shouldn't give up its very valuable BB10 platform and should have bet everything on that horse.

    Nokia and BB are too different for any of these analogies not to be far-fetched, but they can offer some points for discussion anyway.

    Unfortunately I feel we are losing lots of biodiversity in mobile OSs and that's bad for OS enthusiasts - and customers as well - as it doesn't look like there's a new one born for each going away. Thing is, if technologically more interesting OSs (I know, it's subjective) survived at the expense of inferior attempts it would be more acceptable, but BB10, like MeeGo/Harmattan, has a very well thought and innovative UI and it's sad to see it go.
    RezzaBuh and astrodan13 like this.
    09-21-15 04:32 AM
  9. the1's Avatar
    Unfortunately I feel we are losing lots of biodiversity in mobile OSs and that's bad for OS enthusiasts - and customers as well - as it doesn't look like there's a new one born for each going away. Thing is, if technologically more interesting OSs (I know, it's subjective) survived at the expense of inferior attempts it would be more acceptable, but BB10, like MeeGo/Harmattan, has a very well thought and innovative UI and it's sad to see it go.
    This is exactly how I see it. I look at it as American politics; we have 2 main parties and those who don't tote those lines find it hard to thrive in the political scene. Same with Mobile OS; we have a duopoly and people have the flock mentality to either go to one or the other and the Mobile OS that tries to be different is met with little support. WebOS is probably one of the best Mobile OS's that I've ever used but it went the way of the dodo without support from developers, because they would rather focus on those in the duopoly. At the end of the day, it is what it is.
    Allanon89 likes this.
    09-21-15 05:22 AM
  10. Ulferini Schusterotti's Avatar
    I think there IS an analogy with Nokia and BlackBerry. If Nokia chose to use Android, they could have saved Symbian as an OS and offer an alternative in several years when Android and iOS start loosing attraction.

    Windows Phone is no real alternative, because it's almost the same app lacking platform as BB10 and Symbian.

    I hope BlackBerry will be successful with their Android strategy and continue developing BB10, preparing it for future markets when apps count less than privacy and security. And those times will come I think.

    Here's a crazy thought: What if Android will be more of a console, TV and PC OS than a smartphone OS in several years?

    Posted via CB10
    Allanon89 and astrodan13 like this.
    09-21-15 05:27 AM
  11. The Commander's Avatar
    I think there IS an analogy with Nokia and BlackBerry. If Nokia chose to use Android, they could have saved Symbian as an OS and offer an alternative in several years when Android and iOS start loosing attraction.

    Windows Phone is no real alternative, because it's almost the same app lacking platform as BB10 and Symbian.

    I hope BlackBerry will be successful with their Android strategy and continue developing BB10, preparing it for future markets when apps count less than privacy and security. And those times will come I think.

    Here's a crazy thought: What if Android will be more of a console, TV and PC OS than a smartphone OS in several years?

    Posted via CB10
    Then Android will become Genisys

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-21-15 06:20 AM
  12. Dat Gui's Avatar
    The torch put BlackBerry in a coffin, don't be surprise if this is the nail to end end it. On the other hand it could be the crowbar to take them out.
    BerryRipe likes this.
    09-21-15 08:46 AM
  13. crackbb10's Avatar
    I would have to say the Storm was that. The Torch actually had and still has a good following. BlackBerry 10, unfortunately, came in wounded. Instead of an operation it got gushed for too long before Chen came aboard. They're not bleeding anymore. BlackBerry 10, however, is still on life support and an AndroBerry will probably not be its nail. It can't get worse than it already is. The AndroBerry might bring in some much needed cash to get BlackBerry 10 of life support. If BlackBerry 10 gets ditched, the nail will be 0 sales, as it has been for way too long, not the AndroBerry. I think.
    astrodan13 likes this.
    09-21-15 09:27 AM
  14. 6stringriffs's Avatar
    I doubt very much there is really much of a debate inside the walls of BB (formerly RIM). Employees (of what's left) have seen so many of their colleagues downsized, and they have been up close & personal witness to the extremely poor sales & marketshare of BB10, that they can't possibly still be debating the business decision to use Android as their platform for the software they are still creating & selling.

    Besides, whoever was fiercely against the decision likely were one of the ones downsized, as they should've been if they didn't voluntarily go.
    09-21-15 09:46 AM
  15. DolemiteDONS's Avatar
    As I said in another thread. To me it's simple and not as convoluted as some make it out to be. Continue with BB10 status quo, cater to a small swift-shrinking niche group, and the hardware business reaches certain demise. Or enter the Android ecosystem to a full global audience with carrier support (also appealing to former BlackBerry users who were forced to leave due to app gap), and more importantly, become brand relevant to the public again.

    It's safe to say, the public has spoken over the past two years. Without a vast ecosystem, 99% of the people are not interested. Even worse, having the general consumer not know of BlackBerry's existence (augmented by carrier neglect) is a death blow. In short, out of sight, out of mind.

    The math is easy for BlackBerry. Attempt to gain 3% from an 80% market share, at the risk of losing .02% of their current .10% followers. It appears to me to be an easy decision?
    09-21-15 10:01 AM
  16. lnichols's Avatar
    Thanks for those additional infos. Of course I can only see what happened to Microsoft from an end users perspective.

    Posted via CB10
    But yet you know exactly what John Chen thought processes are/were.

    Posted via Z30
    Blacklatino likes this.
    09-21-15 11:30 AM
  17. evodevo69's Avatar
    People who said Mike and Thor were better for BlackBerry are delusional loll



    Posted via CB10
    lylesilverman and DJM626 like this.
    09-21-15 11:55 AM
  18. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    From your words it looks like you never followed what happened at Nokia at all.
    Nokia was still dominating the market share back then, and they were putting out many more phones a year than the E6 and E7. They were as far from the situation BB is in as a company can be!
    The only parallels are that officially Elop was hired by Nokia's BOD to save Nokia as well; and that the Devices and Services division went through a massive transition from providing an integrated software and hardware platform (multiple platforms actually) to being just another OEM, tied to an unsuccessful OS rather than the world-dominating Android. We all can see where it went.
    I'm not saying BB is going to fail that way - I'm just reminding you that if your argument is that Chen doesn't want to replicate Nokia's disaster, you'll have to keep in mind that he's making strangely similar moves to his Canadian, ex-Microsoft fellow.
    A thing John Chen has surely done better than Elop has been refraining from Osborning/Eloping the BB10 devices months before the Android slider was ready (the infamous, mo**nic Feb 11 memo).
    Even more.

    1. Elop SINGLE-HANDEDLY killed an entire Nokia product line, the Belle line (Nokia 600, Nokia 601, Nokia 700) with the Feb 11 memo. Also, he managed to kill the 808 PureView, a phone with a still unrivaled camera technology. Also, Microsoft killed another line, the Windows Phone 7.5 line, absolutely incompatible with Windows Phone 8, and so, another DOA product line. 2 DOA product lines were what killed Nokia.

    2. Elop was there to kill a potential threat to Windows, and was a Microsoft mole. Just imagine a world where a) there's no Burning Platform memo, so b) the Belle line sells, transitioning everyone through c) Qt QML to d) MeeGo Harmattan, giving developers the chance not only to e) develop at the same time apps for the desktop and mobile, with an API by Nokia, but f) develop apps for Android and MeeGo at the same time, with g) Qt 5 and the port that the Nokia N9 team (a.k.a. Jolla) would be doing. You get another real third ecosystem, with real user traction, actually more open than Google, and, here's the thing, absolutely Microsoft free. So, what finally happened was the outcome that benefitted Microsoft the most, but Microsoft has been unable to capitalize that outcome.

    3. Following the same logic: what really is killing BlackBerry isn't the lack of compatibility with Android, it's the lack of compatibility with BBOS and with BIS. There's absolutely nothing preventing the BlackBerry 10 system to run a virtualized BBOS environment. And without BIS BlackBerry wasn't the no brainer choice for all the people out there with BlackBerry plans.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    09-21-15 12:19 PM
  19. momantm's Avatar
    Don't underestimate the power of the CIA. I can see the US government not liking non USA companies dominating a potential trillion dollar industry. Destroyed one with FUD. Plant a saboteur in the other...
    09-21-15 01:31 PM
  20. lylesilverman's Avatar
    I'll never understand the hate for Chen.

    I'm about 95% positive he knows exactly what he's doing and is going to put blackberry back on the map in due time.

    Clamoring for Thornsten is hilarious.
    09-21-15 02:35 PM
  21. Bla1ze's Avatar
    The torch put BlackBerry in a coffin, don't be surprise if this is the nail to end end it. On the other hand it could be the crowbar to take them out.
    I think you mean Storm lol.
    09-21-15 02:39 PM
  22. KAM1138's Avatar
    Hello,

    Yes, be sure to come back in a year and see how well the Slider "saved" Blackberry.

    That's even more of a fantasy than BB10 spontaneously becoming a success.

    Nothing matters unless Blackberry is able to effectively market their products, and there is absolutely zero sign of that changing. They are communicating NOTHING. Die hard fans of the brand are left feeling hopeless, so some grab at an audience that doesn't give a damn about the name "blackberry" other than to dismiss it as a joke is going to fail very, very hard.

    KAM
    dusanvn and Allanon89 like this.
    09-21-15 02:56 PM
  23. KAM1138's Avatar
    I'll never understand the hate for Chen.

    I'm about 95% positive he knows exactly what he's doing and is going to put blackberry back on the map in due time.

    Clamoring for Thornsten is hilarious.
    I see little difference in Chen and Heins. Both are utterly incompetent (or unwilling) to address the state of the Blackberry Brand. Thor I think tried, but failed. Chen doesn't even seem to think this is important.

    Blackberry is a joke (to many consumers others think BB doesn't even exist anymore), and producing an Android phone won't make it less of a joke. So, put out a phone that summon's Djinni's and poops rainbows--it still won't matter under that "position" in the consumer's mindset.

    I'd LOVE to be wrong about this BTW. Even with an Android Device I have little personal interest in. I'd be happy if it WAS the thing that made Blackberry a success again, and less of a joke.

    KAM
    09-21-15 03:02 PM
  24. chazingshadow's Avatar
    Sigh!

    Posted via CB10
    09-21-15 03:04 PM
  25. BerryRipe's Avatar
    The torch put BlackBerry in a coffin, don't be surprise if this is the nail to end end it. On the other hand it could be the crowbar to take them out.
    That was my like and it was an accident....mods please remove if possible.

    From all that I've read it was the Storm and not the Torch.

    Posted via CB10
    09-21-15 03:05 PM
39 12

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