[anon(10268214)]

You don't have to lift the hinge.

http://cdn.mobilesyrup.com/wp-conten...d-moto-mod.jpg

Damn that is some hardcore sh!t.

Have mercy...we are getting laughed at enough using pkb devices as it is. We don't need to be masochists about it! Lol.

[ToniCipriani]

Actually it can NOT currently be ordered. But those of us that have ordered and paid still have a hope that we actually will get it/them. So though not vapour still in the realm of hopes and wishes...

Let me rephrase that then... at least Lenovo mentioned it back at MWC. BlackBerry (Mobile) is telling us to buy a KEYone/2 and STFU, lol.

[EskeRahn]

Big difference between a separate, attachable keyboard and a built in slider. That thing triples the thickness of the phone, makes using a case or holster nearly impossible, and is hinged, designed to be used on a desk or flat surface.
Not even remotely a valid comparison.

I used qwerty-keyboard cases for a Iphone 6- (The ONLY reason to ever buy an Iphone!!!) for 1½ year.
And the keyboard part worked really well. See this post and others.
I just hated the Ios that is (or at the least was?) so flawed and not thought trough that it was a daily pain to use... It was the aPple part not the keyboard case that made me switch to the Priv.
(The build quality of these £10 keyboards were so lo that they only lasted about a few months each, so bought a good stack, and think I got about five left...

And YES it adds extra thickness, on the other hand you can detach it and slip the stripped device into a dinner jacket... So there are benefits of it not being an integral part too.

Here some physical compares, even with at full protective case on the aPple thing. (It is a self-combined magnetic case, merged from different cases though)...

[EskeRahn]

Here is the magnetic case I made for the Iphone 6- from other components. Note that it works in BOTH landscape and portrait!!!

The magnet-system is striped from a Iphone 5 qwerty-case. the backplate was split to half thickness, and placed squeezed into an enveloping Ip6- protective case
The bottom part is stripped from a 'standard' qwerty Ip6- case. (commented here)
(The bottom part lasts many weeks on a charge, it never ran out, so actually do not know how many weeks)

Something like that for a 'Motion II' and many could be happy...

[Gigolo69]

That thing reminds me of my old Samsung epic.

[ToniCipriani]

That thing reminds me of my old Samsung epic.

Historically Android PKBs are like that, the ones that made it to production. The very first Android dev device was a candybar PKB like a Curve.

[TLSTWIN]

these are the 4 previous full Keyboard phones and sliders prior to the priv

[ToniCipriani]

these are the 4 previous full Keyboard phones and sliders prior to the priv

I see you're a bit blindsided by Verizon, lol.

There are waaaaay more, but they didn't sold one way or another but not so much about the keyboard. Mostly because the specs of the said phones are terrible.

[EskeRahn]

these are the 4 previous full Keyboard phones and sliders prior to the priv

I assume you mean "your 4" and not "the 4" ? There are many more. e..g. by Nokia, Moto and SonyEricsson

[Eduard Pertinez]

The point for BBMo is to understand that costs have to do with chipset and not form factor. As long as KEY2 and PRIV2 (and MOTION2) share the exact same internals, having two PKBs in stock is not more expensive that having KEYone in different colors or memory options. And form factor development is already done with PRIV. If I was BBMo I would release the three of them at the same time and see which one appeals more to the customers.

[TLSTWIN]

I assume you mean "your 4" and not "the 4" ? There are many more. e..g. by Nokia, Moto and SonyEricsson

Well, kinda . Actually meant "these ARE the 4 previous full Keyboard phones and sliders that I had prior to the priv"

[ToniCipriani]

The point for BBMo is to understand that costs have to do with chipset and not form factor. As long as KEY2 and PRIV2 (and MOTION2) share the exact same internals, having two PKBs in stock is not more expensive that having KEYone in different colors or memory options. And form factor development is already done with PRIV. If I was BBMo I would release the three of them at the same time and see which one appeals more to the customers.

Well, they are going to have two platforms eventually, there is allegedly a lower specced KEY2 coming with a different SoC.

[Wezard]

You don't have to lift the hinge.

If you don't, it just kinda flopps around, at least the few hands on tests indicate so.
There is no comparison here to a real slider, give it up. It's a third party 'make do' that just proves there is a demand, but isn't going to meet meet that demand.

[Luke3000]

Yes, very good initiative. I love the PRIV with its slider keyboard!
We definitely need a PRIV 2 !
What should be improved? 4 points (priority ranked):
- longer battery duration (50% more please). That is absolute key for current and future professional work (mobile first ). I would accept a heavier weight and / or a thicker or longer design.
- an (at least slightly) enlarged hardware slider keyboard. The current keyboard is a little too small.
- a more powerful processor,
- wireless charging.

Would be nice:
- all buttons on the right side (sound, power, mute, convenience) , that would be much easier to handle.
- design update, e.g. thinner frame around the display.

The other parameters are OK for the next 3 years from my professional point of view, e.g. curved display, camera resolution, display size and resolution, connectivity (mhhh, bluetooth, WLAN and LTE should be state-of-the-art), SD-Card, 3.5mm audio-plug.

[Luke3000]

Android passport sounds super-interesting. Good idea!

[Eduard Pertinez]

Well, they are going to have two platforms eventually, there is allegedly a lower specced KEY2 coming with a different SoC.

We tend to think big companies know what they are doing, yet we have Nokia and a long list of firms to show us they make huge mistakes. Building a lower specced KEY2 with yet another SoC makes no sense to me. They do have KEYone for that. If they feel KEYone is too expensive to build, they could simply recreate it, "KEYone 2018 edition" putting some plastics on it, less quality metals, maybe a cheaper camera but letting the rest of the internals untouched. That is the way to go, in my opinion. And in Apple's (and someway Samsung, Huawei,...) opinion also. As long as you have to support former products anyway, it is cheaper to maintain those products that to have more than one line with different chipsets, different drivers, different os versions, different errors and patches.

I do feel the only two things that shouldn't need to be shared between KEY, PRIV and MOTION lines should be Display and maybe camera. And I even would put the same camera in all devices of a single generation also.

And then there is this other nonsense of releasing devices evently spread during the year. If you release all products at once, with similar specs, your knowledge of the market is going to increase. Apple released iPhone 8 and iPhone X at the same time. That gives them huge information about their customers and how do they feel about paying more or less money for their products.

When you spread device releasing you introduce so many variables in your comparison that they can move you to very bad decisions. Take PRIV as an example. I am sure PRIV is the way to go for BBMo in late 2018. Nothing revolutionary or even evolutionary has happened to smartphones lately yet we got used to change. All smartphones look very similar these days and all branches try to differentiate one to the other with tiny differences, most of them aesthetic or stupid. Glass finishing, three rear cameras, thirty ways to wake up your phone, notches,... b****t.

BBMo can compete in their field with a real differentiation. KEYtwo compete in a different field that the rest of the industry. PRIV competes in the very same field that the others.

[EskeRahn]

If you don't, it just kinda flopps around, at least the few hands on tests indicate so.
There is no comparison here to a real slider, give it up. It's a third party 'make do' that just proves there is a demand, but isn't going to meet meet that demand.

I've seen several cases with similar mechanism. On contrary to devices like Nokia N97mini, it is NOT a device that flips out and up in one motion. You slide out, and then you can OPTIONALLY tilt the display.
Personally I prefer the simpler combined mechanism OR slide only.

Nokia (and others) Used a simple mechanism of supporter arms with different lengths like this


The Mod for Moto Z-series uses this, (where the hinge is visible)

(Closed, and rotated from normal position)

[EskeRahn]

We tend to think big companies know what they are doing, yet we have Nokia and a long list of firms to show us they make huge mistakes. Building a lower specced KEY2 with yet another SoC makes no sense to me. They do have KEYone for that. If they feel KEYone is too expensive to build, they could simply recreate it, "KEYone 2018 edition" putting some plastics on it, less quality metals, maybe a cheaper camera but letting the rest of the internals untouched. That is the way to go, in my opinion. And in Apple's (and someway Samsung, Huawei,...) opinion also. As long as you have to support former products anyway, it is cheaper to maintain those products that to have more than one line with different chipsets, different drivers, different os versions, different errors and patches.

I do feel the only two things that shouldn't need to be shared between KEY, PRIV and MOTION lines should be Display and maybe camera. And I even would put the same camera in all devices of a single generation also.

And then there is this other nonsense of releasing devices evently spread during the year. If you release all products at once, with similar specs, your knowledge of the market is going to increase. Apple released iPhone 8 and iPhone X at the same time. That gives them huge information about their customers and how do they feel about paying more or less money for their products.

When you spread device releasing you introduce so many variables in your comparison that they can move you to very bad decisions. Take PRIV as an example. I am sure PRIV is the way to go for BBMo in late 2018. Nothing revolutionary or even evolutionary has happened to smartphones lately yet we got used to change. All smartphones look very similar these days and all branches try to differentiate one to the other with tiny differences, most of them aesthetic or stupid. Glass finishing, three rear cameras, thirty ways to wake up your phone, notches,... b****t.

BBMo can compete in their field with a real differentiation. KEYtwo compete in a different field that the rest of the industry. PRIV competes in the very same field that the others.

I agree to a large extent, but I think that the problem BBMo has, is that there most likely are not enough PKB market for too many models.
There are three obvious physical variants: Fixed keyboard and slider in portrait/landscape. AND for each there will be those interested in a high end device, and those that want a more budget friendly one. But it is unlikely that there are room for all six... (not to talk nine with midrangers)

Of course each of us can argue that the specific choice we want is the one they should go for, but we have no market analysis to back it. Hopefully BBMo do.

That they made the Motion seems really odd at first BUT it could be seen as a test on how much of their sales that are due to the brand and somewhat secured Android and how much are due to the PKB. And they answered that question by releasing a Key2 not a Motion2...

And as you say they should keep the interior the same as much as possible to keep costs down.

My suggestion is to split the keyboard part, as this is quite stable, so we could change the 'standard' device on top regularly, and keep the keyboard the same, changing it to a new identical one when worn down.
This way they could have a Motion-like standard device with secured android as a main product (all with commonly used hardware), and have the keyboard as a standard accessories usable over many generation of the device.
AND this gives an extended market for those that would occasionally like a keyboard, but more often than not find a slim device more important
AND they could please those of us that still prefer removable batteries over planned obsolescence. (*)
AND they could please the standard touch-only users that sometimes needs large capacity and sometimes a slim device, simply by different battery-packs.

I'm quite sure that I would buy both big and small batteries plus (of course) a qwerty-back. And if both exists most likely I would buy in both landscape and portrait orientation...

(*) Personally I really liked the 'food chain' of buying a top-dog device, and then pass my device down to someone else, that passed their device down etc.

[Eduard Pertinez]

There was a time when all sorts of devices had its place. Until iPhone showed that devices without buttons were more appealing, robust and cheaper to build. And that is true to this time. But I feel things are about to change. Smartphones, like any other dress complement, define yourself in front of others. Now that all devices look the same, definition can come from PBK. And a PBK with big screen defines you very differently that a PBK with a smaller screen.

[Chuck Finley69]

You can have any PKB device size and features you’d like as long as it’s KEYone or Key2.

[Halifax Guy]

The Q10 and BB10 failed

That's an interesting myth. My Q10 is functioning quite well AND is still running on its original battery.

Q10 Powered

[Wezard]

I've seen several cases with similar mechanism.

My whole point here is to counter Tony's claim that there is a current viable slider option available now. There isn't.
My Priv is finally starting to show some signs of aging, and I'm starting to look for a replacement. Naturally I looked at the moto mod. Didn't take long to rule that monster out. And it's still not available.
I'd drop close to a grand for a well spec'ed and up to date Priv, but I wouldn't buy a Key at any price. I'm not knocking the Key, apparently it's a decent device, I just have no use for the form.
I'd hate to replace the Priv with a slab, and then find out that the Priv 2 isn't just a pipe dream.
If I do replace it soon, it won't be a BlackBerry, I'll pay a premium for a PKB, (but not if it comes with a small, med resolution, odd ratio screen), (letter boxes are for antique CRT's, not modern phones)) but not for the BB name. BB's history of security is just that now-days, history. Except for the 'root of trust', which is pretty negligible, BB is no more secure than any other modern, up to date android.
Other than an outdated, but perfectly usable OS, my Priv's problem is a battery that still lasts all day, most days. But is now going to bed with 25 to 30% instead of 40 to 50. Given what is available now, and whats on the radar, I'm going to push the Priv for a while longer. If there isn't a decent slider available by the end of the year, I'll be sporting somebody else's slab. And it won't be a Samsung or Apple.

[ToniCipriani]

My whole point here is to counter Tony's claim that there is a current viable slider option available now. There isn't.
My Priv is finally starting to show some signs of aging, and I'm starting to look for a replacement. Naturally I looked at the moto mod. Didn't take long to rule that monster out. And it's still not available.
I'd drop close to a grand for a well spec'ed and up to date Priv, but I wouldn't buy a Key at any price. I'm not knocking the Key, apparently it's a decent device, I just have no use for the form.
I'd hate to replace the Priv with a slab, and then find out that the Priv 2 isn't just a pipe dream.
If I do replace it soon, it won't be a BlackBerry, I'll pay a premium for a PKB, (but not if it comes with a small, med resolution, odd ratio screen), (letter boxes are for antique CRT's, not modern phones)) but not for the BB name. BB's history of security is just that now-days, history. Except for the 'root of trust', which is pretty negligible, BB is no more secure than any other modern, up to date android.
Other than an outdated, but perfectly usable OS, my Priv's problem is a battery that still lasts all day, most days. But is now going to bed with 25 to 30% instead of 40 to 50. Given what is available now, and whats on the radar, I'm going to push the Priv for a while longer. If there isn't a decent slider available by the end of the year, I'll be sporting somebody else's slab. And it won't be a Samsung or Apple.

I didn't say it was a Priv alternative, which was what @EskeRahn kept arguing it was a better alternative because it was landscape.

I mean if it was I would've went for it instead of sending my phone half way across the globe to keep it running and putting up with BlackBerry's bloatware, lol.

[ToniCipriani]

That's an interesting myth. My Q10 is functioning quite well AND is still running on its original battery.

Q10 Powered

Right, moving on...

[Chuck Finley69]

That's an interesting myth. My Q10 is functioning quite well AND is still running on its original battery.

Q10 Powered

LMAO. As commercially viable product and OS is what I was referring to.