11-11-15 11:39 AM
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  1. nward2010's Avatar
    My Z30 is locked to Bell as well, works 100% for me.
    Attachment 379788

    ^ That's my current plan, and was the plan used with my OnePlus One.
    That's an expensive plan! I'm with Bell BYOD and I pay $50 for 14 GB of shareable data! + $35 for unlimited nationwide calling and unlimited texts, call display, voice mail, etc. Total $85 / month.
    11-10-15 09:43 PM
  2. aldebaran12's Avatar
    I transferred the SIM card to an IPhone to check and data did not work; therefore your assertion is incorrect, BB10 does not use a standard data plan.

    bb10 didnt support blackberry data plans. Neither does the priv. They both operate on normal data plans period
    11-10-15 09:57 PM
  3. howarmat's Avatar
    I transferred the SIM card to an IPhone to check and data did not work; therefore your assertion is incorrect, BB10 does not use a standard data plan.
    yes it certainly does...as mention you might need to change the apn but its still a normal plan
    11-10-15 10:03 PM
  4. mithrazor's Avatar
    I just had this issue. I had to switch to a regular data plan. I didn't even know I was on a BlackBerry data plan before.

    But once I switched it's smooth sailing.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    11-10-15 10:05 PM
  5. to boldly go's Avatar
    It would be nice if someone could explain this once and for all. I have had the same confusion. BB10 is not BBOS, yet atnt puts it all on a BlackBerry data plan. Now when i first got my first BlackBerry, a Bold 9900, i simply put my sim card from my LG Optimus Pro in my Bold without telling atnt and to my amazement it worked great, and in those early days of having the phone, the internet was NICE and FAST, even for video. Then. Two weeks or so went by and atnt said they found out i am using a BlackBerry, and are putting me on a BlackBerry data plan. I swear they lower the bandwidth on purpose or something, because it never ran as fast after that.

    Later on i got the Z10, and again just switched the sim card and would now and then switch them, but come to think of it both those first two devices were atnt branded unlocked phones.
    11-10-15 10:12 PM
  6. ssbtech's Avatar
    I'm confused too.

    I had a 9800 on a Bell BIS plan, 6GB.
    Moved to a Z10, got a new LTE SIM card, no change to the plan.
    Moved to a Z30 with same SIM card, didn't even change the phone on Bell's website (Bell thinks I still have the Z10). Everything works OK.
    11-10-15 10:43 PM
  7. bmercer94's Avatar
    That's an expensive plan! I'm with Bell BYOD and I pay $50 for 14 GB of shareable data! + $35 for unlimited nationwide calling and unlimited texts, call display, voice mail, etc. Total $85 / month.
    Actually that's a cheap one. Unless they've got a new plan that you mentioned . Because unlimited nationwide calling is $45 alone. Then $35 for 2gb data

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-15 10:47 PM
  8. anon6040766's Avatar
    It's all about provisioning. I have BlackBerry Classic and Passport that use a nano sim. I have an iPhone 6s as well.

    When my BlackBerry is activated the plan says

    BlackBerry 4G LTE with Visual Voicemail

    If I take out the nano sim and put it in my iPhone 6s, I get cellular but no data.

    I have to call AT&T and tell them I'm switching devices and give the IMEI and they them provision the line for:

    iPhone 4G LTE with Visual Voicemail

    Based on what the carrier has told me, it's all about data provisioning. If I move my sim from one BlackBerry to another it will work for cellular and data. But if you more you sim from BlackBerry to iPhone or Android they need to provision your data appropriately.

    You should remain grandfathered, just now you'll have the plan but Android 4G LTE.

    The only time you go cross platform with the same sim and have data work without changing settings or calling carrier is going between Windows and Android. Nobody else plays nice.
    11-10-15 11:12 PM
  9. Komet86's Avatar
    I didn't know anyone had "BlackBerry data" plans (aka. BIS, therefore bbos) Telus cancelled those long ago. My wife had kind of a grandfathered BIS data plan with her Torch 9870 but it was just a regular Telus social plan. Not BlackBerry specific. But it did list BlackBerry something in the plan features. Maybe that's the data provisioning you are talking about?

    I went from my curve to my Z10 and kept the exact same plan. We both changed Sim cards with each phone.

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-15 11:52 PM
  10. ssbtech's Avatar
    Telus would still have to offer BIS plans for those using BBOS7 or earlier devices.
    11-11-15 12:53 AM
  11. vgorous's Avatar
    Here's a lesson and will try to explain it as simple as possible.

    BIS is a feature that BlackBerry provided in the legacy devices as a compression server. When you log into the internet, BIS would find that data, compress it, then your carrier would send that compressed data to you and the legacy device would decrypt the file. This is why bbos browser was so slow. It was also great for the carrier at the time because data plans were new and compressing the data help keep the bandwidth in check. This also pretty much made BBOS so secured.

    Now if you have a BIS plan on your BBOS legacy device with your carrier, upgrading to a BB10 phone would force the carrier to switch over the method of network. It would be like your signal bars joining a new WiFi connection that doesn't go through BIS.

    So that's why if you simply take a sim card from a legacy device, and swap it into a BB10 device, the internet will not work. Because your carrier doesn't know you've switched a new OS that uses the standard network and hasn't switched you over.

    Your monthly rate would probably stay the same as they would have to honour it (I'm not so sure now because of the policy change). You'll also soon realize how quickly you'll eat up that data though.


    Posted via CB10
    11-11-15 01:16 AM
  12. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I think that many of the old Blackberry plans that you may have had are still useful and cheap provided that you had enough data.
    For $55 Canadian monthly, I have few "anytime" minutes and only 50 txts per month. But 6 GIG of LTE data that is VERY fast.

    This is a BlackBerry Data Plan "add on" that I got with my Torch 9810 in 2011 when Canadian carriers were still keen on customer acquisition and less keen on showing quarter after quarter "revenue growth" so I have this 6 gig data but the carrier will not just swap it to "6 gig non-BB data": I would have to switch to a much MUCH more costly plan.

    However they've wired in their BIS server or not or just filter on device manufacturer ID or dynamically switch routing info depending on the type of device the SIM is in, whatever. If I try to switch to a "normal" data plan, my plan increased by an amount as little as $10 per month IF I DROP DOWN TO 2 GIG PER MONTH, or as much as DOUBLES if I want to keep 6 gig per month.

    So, there isn't a phone on the market that is going to make me change to a more costly less value plan, especially not an Android device.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 11-11-15 at 09:46 AM.
    11-11-15 09:12 AM
  13. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I transferred the SIM card to an IPhone to check and data did not work; therefore your assertion is incorrect, BB10 does not use a standard data plan.
    yes it certainly does...as mention you might need to change the apn but its still a normal plan
    I think the correct statement is:

    "With a BB10 device, you can use a BlackBerry data plan that relies on BIS"
    "With a BB10 device, you can use a normal data plan that doesn't rely on BIS"

    Both BIS and non BIS data work on BlackBerry devices.

    So that's why if you simply take a sim card from a legacy device, and swap it into a BB10 device, the internet will not work. Because your carrier doesn't know you've switched a new OS that uses the standard network and hasn't switched you over.
    It does work. So that's just totally wrong, unless the network is doing this switching dynamically depending on what device the SIM card is inserted into, but also only makes this switch if it detects a BB10 device, not an Android or iPhone device... which would be a LOT more programming than even a highly-profitable carrier is going to bother with. They're going to tell you to switch plans.

    My data plan happens to be a BIS data plan and DOES work on my BBOS device, my Torch 9810, with full internet surfing and accessing the google and the emails and the ICQ (ok, not ICQ) and so on.... the point is that it is INCORRECT to say that my data plan is a "normal data plan" BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK IN NON-BB DEVICES period. You can spend hours on the phone with Bell if you want, asking them to explain how they route or filter or assign APNs or whatever depending on the device vendor and OS or what not. I have ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST in doing any of that.

    I'd like to know if someone who has a nano sim that when inserted (with a suitable adaptor) into a BBOS device DOES have full data connectivity (with WiFi turned off) and when they remove that adapted nano sim from their BBOS device and cram it into a Priv do you ALSO have full access to the interwebs, with OR WITHOUT messing with your APN.

    I would have this answer for myself BUT I am not going to BUY a Priv to find out, and the carrier stores wouldn't allow me to insert my own SIM (not sure why, I guess they're just lazy: the SIM port is RIGHT THERE. I could bring my own sim tray ejector and do it myself, but they'd holler at me.)
    11-11-15 09:19 AM
  14. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I tweeted @BlackBerryHelp on whether BIS data plans work in the Priv...

    Me:
    @blackberryhelp my current voice / data plan is unchanged since 2011 when I bought my Torch 9810: it still works great with my z30 cont'd

    @BlackBerryHelp ...if I purchase an unlocked Priv from BlackBerry Smartphones & Accessories ? Buy Unlocked Phones, Cases, Chargers, Batteries, Bluetooth Accessories & More, will my SIM and old skool BlackBerry data plan still work?
    Pretty simple question, I mean, if you know anything about BlackBerry OS devices I think.

    @BlackBerryHelp:
    Hi @RyanGermann. The BlackBerry Priv uses a nano SIM card, check: Insert the SIM card - PRIV - 5.1 . Regarding data plans available for your BlackBerry Priv, please contact your carrier for assistance on this matter. Please let us know if you have any other questions. ^LFC
    So the answer is about the form factor of the SIM card, and passing the buck on the 'data plan' question. Moving on...

    Me:
    I have a nano sim + adaptor in my Z30 now: that isn't the question: it is whether "BlackBerry Data Plans" are supported on the Priv: if I have to change my data plan to use the Priv, I don't use the Priv! Carriers don't know much about the device's capabilities so I'm asking @BlackBerryHelp. Thanks.
    The answer below might have just been copy / pasted as a reply to me...

    @BlackBerryHelp:
    Hello @ThanasisKant. BlackBerry PRIV does not required an specific data plan such as BIS or BES. You can engage your service provider to review the different options of service plans they have available. If you have any further question please let us know. ^GV
    "If you have any further questions..." JUST THE ONE I ASKED THAT YOU HAVEN'T ANSWERED YET.

    Me:
    I am on an excellent BIS data plan that I don't want to change. I just want to know if my existing BIS data plan will work. My SIM works in my Torch 9810 and my Z30. Will it work in a Priv without any changes?

    @BlackBerryHelp:
    Hi @RyanGermann Depending on your particular requirements, you can choose a data bundle that suits you best. Please contact your service provider to get more options on this specific situation. Let us know if you have any other questions. Have a good day ^DN
    Maybe I should interpret the above as one of "I have no idea!" or "Whether or not an old data plan that works with BBOS will also work with the Priv depends on the carrier 100%, it has absolutely nothing to do with the device." I think "I have no idea!" is closer to the truth, and the second one is 100% guesswork, so I don't know if that's what the @BlackBerryHelp reps are trying to say.

    Me:
    The question I asked hasn't been answered. Instead of telling me if a Priv will work with a BBOS data plan, I am told to contact my carrier to ask about data plans. I admit I am getting kind of frustrated. I thought it would be a pretty simple question for @BlackBerryHelp to answer, but I guess I was wrong.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 11-11-15 at 02:24 PM.
    11-11-15 09:42 AM
  15. Fr3lncr's Avatar
    I had no problems switching between my Bold 9900 and Galaxy S2 back in the day on Virgin (Bell). I'd have BIS on the 9900 and regular data when I popped my 9900 SIM in the S2. (I can't remember if I had to put the APN settings in on the S2 though as it was a long time ago). When I'd pop the SIM back in the 9900 after using the S2, I'd get an automated text saying something about giving them a minute to set up BB data on the phone but I never, ever had an issue going from one to the other.

    When I switched to a Z10 and Nexus 4, even though I was off of BBOS, my account still showed it as a BB plan but again, I had no problems switching between the Z10 and Nexus 4 and never had to change the APN settings in.

    Earlier this year though, when I switched to a cheaper Bring Your Own Phone (BYOP) rate, they removed the 'BB' designation on the plan. Knowing that all BB10 phones don't need BIS, I didn't care so I didn't bother getting them to fix it. Right after though I lost data on my Z30.

    For whatever reason, Bell/Virgin is the only carrier in Canada stating you need a 'BlackBerry' plan even for BB10 phones. This is a lie and I don't know why they state it unless they are trying to make some extra money off of people that don't know any better or they were just too lazy to make changes to their network to recognize that BB10 phones work differently than BBOS. What is true is that if you don't have a BB specific plan on a BB10 device on Bell/Virgin, then the data plan on the phone wont work unless you change the default APN settings from blackberry.net to pda.bell.ca or inet.bell.ca.

    This also means when setting up a new BB10 device on Bell/Virgin or doing a clean install of the OS, your device wont register a data connection to the network until you go in and change your APN settings and then it will work fine.

    Again, I don't know why Bell/Virgin are the only ones doing this but simply put, just ignore them if they state you need a BB data plan for anything after BBOS, as you don't. I had no problem popping a Telus SIM for a non-BB plan in a Z10 and it worked fine with no changes needed. I'm pretty sure I've done the same on Rogers with the same result.

    And if you have an old BB data plan, go ahead and try the SIM out in an Android phone as, on Bell/Virgin at least, it should work and if it doesn't, check to make sure the APN settings are right on the non-BB phone. A more likely problem people should have is SIM card size changes as I don't like adapters so if I have two devices, I need to make sure the SIM card sizes are the same.
    11-11-15 09:42 AM
  16. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Ryan, I agree you should keep your current plan. I would go to the Bell store and say that you will buy the PRIV provided that they can show you that the new phone can continue to operate under your old plan.

    Swapping sim cards is not a solution as you need LTE. No point in getting a new phone with out LTE. I know because at first Bell just cut down my SIM card.

    If you do not need apps or can live with the Snap or Cobalt solution, I think you would be happier with a Classic. It has a trackpad and is not as large as the PRIV. My Z10 worked under my old BlackBerry plan. There was no data compression.

    Posted via CB10
    11-11-15 11:11 AM
  17. RyanGermann's Avatar
    For whatever reason, Bell/Virgin is the only carrier in Canada stating you need a 'BlackBerry' plan even for BB10 phones.
    I'm sure if I had a regular data plan and popped the SIM in my Z30 it would work. Even if I had to change the APN or whatever to make it work, it would work: BB10 devices do not require "BB Data Plans".

    This is a lie and I don't know why they state it unless they are trying to make some extra money off of people that don't know any better or they were just too lazy to make changes to their network to recognize that BB10 phones work differently than BBOS.
    Bell works in mysterious ways.

    What is true is that if you don't have a BB specific plan on a BB10 device on Bell/Virgin, then the data plan on the phone wont work unless you change the default APN settings from blackberry.net to pda.bell.ca or inet.bell.ca.
    I assumed that the plan you were on (which is tied to the SIM) would send the data settings to the device... you know, something like a text block like this:
    <APN>blackberry.net</APN>
    or
    <APN>pda.bell.net</APN>
    but if your saying that it sends APN settings based on what it thinks the device vendor is, well, that seems kind of stupid and a lot more labour-intensive (software wise) than just saying "for Data Plan XXX, you need APN yyy". Whatever, no wonder why rates keep going up if they have to fund that kind of stupidity.

    This also means when setting up a new BB10 device on Bell/Virgin or doing a clean install of the OS, your device wont register a data connection to the network until you go in and change your APN settings and then it will work fine.
    Interesting, but irrelevant to me, there's no way to test it, and if we get back to "What about the PRIV?" perhaps it's all very carrier specific, but so far, no one who has a Priv seems to also be using it with a "BlackBerry Data Plan" whatever that means, even if what that means can vary between carriers.

    Again, I don't know why Bell/Virgin are the only ones doing this but simply put, just ignore them if they state you need a BB data plan for anything after BBOS, as you don't.
    ...which is fine, and I understand that, but it is the opposite of my current situation. I need a BIS plan to work on the Priv, not a NON-BIS plan to work on a BlackBerry (I mean a REAL BlackBerry :-P )

    And if you have an old BB data plan, go ahead and try the SIM out in an Android phone as, on Bell/Virgin at least, it should work and if it doesn't, check to make sure the APN settings are right on the non-BB phone. A more likely problem people should have is SIM card size changes as I don't like adapters so if I have two devices, I need to make sure the SIM card sizes are the same.
    It did not work in my Galaxy S4, but I tried it in a $60 unlocked "Blu" brand device and it got "pda.bell.net" for the APN without my intervention, and was able to get on the HSPA data. I assume the Priv could at least do that.

    Ryan, I agree you should keep your current plan. I would go to the Bell store and say that you will buy the PRIV provided that they can show you that the new phone can continue to operate under your old plan.
    I don't like the 'morality' of buying something that the retailer will bear the cost of processing the return; if I could go into a carrier store and use the demo device with my SIM, I'd sit there for a while and try typing and texting etc... but if I tell them "I just want it for a few days then I'm going to return it" I'm sure they'd rather not sell me the device at all.

    I was just asking a question that no one seems to be able to answer. Well, not answer CORRECTLY, or DEFINITIVELY (a definitive answer may be impossible if "the answer" varies between carriers).

    Swapping sim cards is not a solution as you need LTE. No point in getting a new phone with out LTE. I know because at first Bell just cut down my SIM card.
    Swapping SIM cards is in no way an issue here. I have an LTE enabled NFC-enabled Virgin Mobile Nano SIM in my Z30 that is seated in a "nano SIM to mini SIM" adaptor, so I just need to take the SIM (and the adaptor) out of my Z30, take the Nano Sim out of the adaptor, and pop the nano SIM into the Priv, but Bell won't let me. Note for the record that when I take the nano SIM (and the adaptor) out of my Z30, and put the nano SIM in a full-size SIM adaptor, and put that SIM+Adaptor into my Torch 9810, the Torch 9810 has full BB data functionality.

    I'm starting to get a real "diminishing returns" thing here, for the amount of discussion. I was just trying to get an answer for others in my situation who might actually WANT the Priv. I would like to TRY the Priv, but I do not want to BUY the Priv. If it was $200, maybe. But not for $900. Seriously, even at $400 the Priv is a "i don't know..." purchase, because it runs Android. I have half a dozen Android devices, and if I want to play with BB's Android apps, there's a way to do that without spending $900.

    If you do not need apps or can live with the Snap or Cobalt solution, I think you would be happier with a Classic. It has a trackpad and is not as large as the PRIV. My Z10 worked under my old BlackBerry plan. There was no data compression.
    Thanks Bbnivende. I'll keep that in mind, but I am perfectly happy with my Z30. I have no app gap problem to resolve, I prefer BB10 over Android and iOS, warts and all. If BB10 had about 3 person months development on a few key features, it would probably serve my needs for a decade.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 11-11-15 at 02:34 PM.
    Bbnivende and KenV95 like this.
    11-11-15 11:39 AM
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