09-28-15 04:02 AM
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  1. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I've never really understood why BB is so vague about what they are doing. Its like they have zero confidence in what they do and are scared to actually make a concrete statement on anything for fear they won't make another deadline.
    1) I bet they are afraid of missing another deadline... we haven't really seen the full BlackBerry experience in action yet.

    2) They have an existing platform and devices to sell. The "truth" would hinder their current efforts.
    09-25-15 04:04 PM
  2. cgk's Avatar
    Right, meaning one could be planned for 2016.

    Posted via CB10
    Dual-boot hypervisor for sure.
    JeepBB and DrBoomBotz like this.
    09-25-15 04:21 PM
  3. wincyUt's Avatar
    I feel like the majority of users would like to see a actual new device launched. Not a year old phone with a new color. Seems a bit gimmicky.

    Hell, look at how many people on here have been going strong for the last year and a bit that they want a new all touch device!!! (Leap doesn't count)

    Posted via the BlackBerry Classic
    How many are you guys, because the units sold figures don't support the viability of BlackBerry churning out more devices frequently. 800,000 is paltry. People should put their money where their mouths are.
    09-25-15 04:26 PM
  4. donnation's Avatar
    Dual-boot hypervisor for sure.
    Triple boot Hypervisor. Just throw in Windows OS too!
    cgk, JeepBB, eldricho and 1 others like this.
    09-25-15 04:26 PM
  5. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Triple boot Hypervisor. Just throw in Windows OS too!
    Why stop at "triple" then? Let's go for all out fantasy...
    donnation likes this.
    09-25-15 05:04 PM
  6. eshropshire's Avatar
    Why stop at "triple" then? Let's go for all out fantasy...
    Do you mean the double dog dare "Quad" Boot phone- based on the new unannounced and fictional partnerships with Apple and MS to include iOS and Win10.
    09-25-15 05:16 PM
  7. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    Maybe a passport running Android?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    I am totally up for the that. And since it's already got a decent name, I'm doubly up for it, lol.

    Make it a Passport sized Slider and I'll hand them my Visa without even testing it out first.
    MO3iusONE and ayngling like this.
    09-25-15 05:19 PM
  8. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    "BlackBerry is announcing two new additions to its handheld device roadmap"

    Taken from their press release: BlackBerry announces Q2 Fiscal 2016 results | CrackBerry.com

    Two new additions? Ok, one is the Android slider... what was the second addition?

    When they say "While the new device will provide a choice in OS to new and existing customers" it can just mean you have a choice to buy an older phone with BB10 or get the slider with Android, but surely the following is not an addition to their roadmap: "Second, the company will continue to develop and enhance the BlackBerry 10 operating system"
    Yeah, I made the same mistake this morning, lol. It's not written out as clearly as it could have been. For a minute though, I was excited.
    ayngling likes this.
    09-25-15 05:20 PM
  9. RyanGermann's Avatar
    You're just a bundle of joy, aren't you? They have claimed they are committed to BB10, and I believe them. (Secured Android + BES12 for BYOD and COPE, BB10 for ultra-secure certified COBO.)
    Nobody wants a new more powerful BB10 device than me: but listen to what Chen said on the call. There will be no BB10 version of the SLIDER (a device that EXISTS and WILL be released) because the cost to develop hardware / chipset drivers for the BB10 OS to run on the device is cost prohibitive! I can't imagine how much it actually is, but "cost prohibitive" in my mind is upwards of $20 Million (when you have $2.5 BILLION in cash: chump change). But in Chen's mind, since spending that $20 million (I doubt it's anywhere NEAR that much of course) would just be money down the drain because any BB10 devices he might sell would be TOO FEW to justify the investment.

    If the Slider did get BB10, how many would be sold? Maybe 3 million? Fewer? Let's say only half a million, 500,000 devices.

    It's not WORTH it for BlackBerry to spend $20 million to sell 500,000 BB10 devices: remember the development costs for the hardware are sunk in the Android OS device development, and Chen can't be bothered to invest WHATEVER it would cost to get BB10 onto this EXISTING device (with relatively conventional parts, but the higher resolution screen might be a wrinkle... but I digress).

    So across 500,000 devices, $20 million (a number WAY huger than it would actually cost) is $40 per device.

    They can't find a way to make $40 on 500,000 Android Sliders that have BB10 running on it? Even by CHARGING MORE!?

    Please someone tell me that developing the drivers for the Qualcomm chips for BB10 costs Dr. Evil numbers "100 Billion Dollars!" and I won't believe a word of it, but the math just doesn't make sense.

    Chen is just pulling Thor: "Screw You our most loyal customers who stuck with us through thick and thin: we don't even want to bother spending $40 per device for you, even though we'd make way more than that in profit on the device you buy."

    It's abominable but it is effectively what Chen is doing here.

    Someone do the math again and tell me how I'm wrong and how I shouldn't just feel like Chen has like his predecessors, just showed what BlackBerry Ltd. thinks of customer loyalty: we're chumps.
    09-25-15 06:49 PM
  10. crackberry_geek's Avatar
    Nobody wants a new more powerful BB10 device than me: but listen to what Chen said on the call. There will be no BB10 version of the SLIDER (a device that EXISTS and WILL be released) because the cost to develop hardware / chipset drivers for the BB10 OS to run on the device is cost prohibitive! I can't imagine how much it actually is, but "cost prohibitive" in my mind is upwards of $20 Million (when you have $2.5 BILLION in cash: chump change). But in Chen's mind, since spending that $20 million (I doubt it's anywhere NEAR that much of course) would just be money down the drain because any BB10 devices he might sell would be TOO FEW to justify the investment.

    If the Slider did get BB10, how many would be sold? Maybe 3 million? Fewer? Let's say only half a million, 500,000 devices.

    It's not WORTH it for BlackBerry to spend $20 million to sell 500,000 BB10 devices: remember the development costs for the hardware are sunk in the Android OS device development, and Chen can't be bothered to invest WHATEVER it would cost to get BB10 onto this EXISTING device (with relatively conventional parts, but the higher resolution screen might be a wrinkle... but I digress).

    So across 500,000 devices, $20 million (a number WAY huger than it would actually cost) is $40 per device.

    They can't find a way to make $40 on 500,000 Android Sliders that have BB10 running on it? Even by CHARGING MORE!?

    Please someone tell me that developing the drivers for the Qualcomm chips for BB10 costs Dr. Evil numbers "100 Billion Dollars!" and I won't believe a word of it, but the math just doesn't make sense.

    Chen is just pulling Thor: "Screw You our most loyal customers who stuck with us through thick and thin: we don't even want to bother spending $40 per device for you, even though we'd make way more than that in profit on the device you buy."

    It's abominable but it is effectively what Chen is doing here.

    Someone do the math again and tell me how I'm wrong and how I shouldn't just feel like Chen has like his predecessors, just showed what BlackBerry Ltd. thinks of customer loyalty: we're chumps.
    Spot on... pathetic... but spot on!

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-15 07:16 PM
  11. jeffydude05's Avatar
    Nobody wants a new more powerful BB10 device than me: but listen to what Chen said on the call. There will be no BB10 version of the SLIDER (a device that EXISTS and WILL be released) because the cost to develop hardware / chipset drivers for the BB10 OS to run on the device is cost prohibitive! I can't imagine how much it actually is, but "cost prohibitive" in my mind is upwards of $20 Million (when you have $2.5 BILLION in cash: chump change). But in Chen's mind, since spending that $20 million (I doubt it's anywhere NEAR that much of course) would just be money down the drain because any BB10 devices he might sell would be TOO FEW to justify the investment.

    If the Slider did get BB10, how many would be sold? Maybe 3 million? Fewer? Let's say only half a million, 500,000 devices.

    It's not WORTH it for BlackBerry to spend $20 million to sell 500,000 BB10 devices: remember the development costs for the hardware are sunk in the Android OS device development, and Chen can't be bothered to invest WHATEVER it would cost to get BB10 onto this EXISTING device (with relatively conventional parts, but the higher resolution screen might be a wrinkle... but I digress).

    So across 500,000 devices, $20 million (a number WAY huger than it would actually cost) is $40 per device.

    They can't find a way to make $40 on 500,000 Android Sliders that have BB10 running on it? Even by CHARGING MORE!?

    Please someone tell me that developing the drivers for the Qualcomm chips for BB10 costs Dr. Evil numbers "100 Billion Dollars!" and I won't believe a word of it, but the math just doesn't make sense.

    Chen is just pulling Thor: "Screw You our most loyal customers who stuck with us through thick and thin: we don't even want to bother spending $40 per device for you, even though we'd make way more than that in profit on the device you buy."

    It's abominable but it is effectively what Chen is doing here.

    Someone do the math again and tell me how I'm wrong and how I shouldn't just feel like Chen has like his predecessors, just showed what BlackBerry Ltd. thinks of customer loyalty: we're chumps.
    Says BlackBerry CEO, "If we ship 10 million phones in a year, we'll be profitable on phones" | CrackBerry.com

    What profit?
    09-25-15 08:29 PM
  12. cbvinh's Avatar
    Nobody wants a new more powerful BB10 device than me: but listen to what Chen said on the call. There will be no BB10 version of the SLIDER (a device that EXISTS and WILL be released) because the cost to develop hardware / chipset drivers for the BB10 OS to run on the device is cost prohibitive! I can't imagine how much it actually is, but "cost prohibitive" in my mind is upwards of $20 Million (when you have $2.5 BILLION in cash: chump change). But in Chen's mind, since spending that $20 million (I doubt it's anywhere NEAR that much of course) would just be money down the drain because any BB10 devices he might sell would be TOO FEW to justify the investment.

    If the Slider did get BB10, how many would be sold? Maybe 3 million? Fewer? Let's say only half a million, 500,000 devices.

    It's not WORTH it for BlackBerry to spend $20 million to sell 500,000 BB10 devices: remember the development costs for the hardware are sunk in the Android OS device development, and Chen can't be bothered to invest WHATEVER it would cost to get BB10 onto this EXISTING device (with relatively conventional parts, but the higher resolution screen might be a wrinkle... but I digress).

    So across 500,000 devices, $20 million (a number WAY huger than it would actually cost) is $40 per device.

    They can't find a way to make $40 on 500,000 Android Sliders that have BB10 running on it? Even by CHARGING MORE!?

    Please someone tell me that developing the drivers for the Qualcomm chips for BB10 costs Dr. Evil numbers "100 Billion Dollars!" and I won't believe a word of it, but the math just doesn't make sense.

    Chen is just pulling Thor: "Screw You our most loyal customers who stuck with us through thick and thin: we don't even want to bother spending $40 per device for you, even though we'd make way more than that in profit on the device you buy."

    It's abominable but it is effectively what Chen is doing here.

    Someone do the math again and tell me how I'm wrong and how I shouldn't just feel like Chen has like his predecessors, just showed what BlackBerry Ltd. thinks of customer loyalty: we're chumps.
    Maybe this could be one of those crowd funded projects? The hardware is already done, so it's just about software. Would enough people be willing to put up money for the cost of development and in return, get the opportunity to buy the hardware? After that, crowd fund again for bug fixes and updates.
    09-25-15 08:58 PM
  13. diegonei's Avatar
    Let me fix that for you.

    Not to the Loyalists diehards who think:

    They said they won't be releasing a new BB10 phone this year. Only 3 months left in this year, so new BB10 phone for next year is confirmed!!11
    Alternative version:

    Not to the Loyalists diehards who think:

    They said they won't be releasing a new BB10 phone this year. Only 3 months left in this year, so new BB10 phone for next year is confirmed!!11 possible.
    09-25-15 09:17 PM
  14. Jake2826's Avatar
    Chen said on the call BlackBerry 10.3.3 and 10.3.4 are coming so there's that.
    I can confirm that he said this on the earnings call.

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-15 09:22 PM
  15. anon(4067838)'s Avatar
    Maybe this could be one of those crowd funded projects? The hardware is already done, so it's just about software. Would enough people be willing to put up money for the cost of development and in return, get the opportunity to buy the hardware? After that, crowd fund again for bug fixes and updates.
    I'd gladly pay an extra $50 or even an extra $100 on top of the Android Priv to have it run BB10. This looks like a sweet device for sure.

     Posted by Passport, BlackBerry's Beast 
    09-25-15 09:37 PM
  16. MO3iusONE's Avatar
    I'd gladly pay an extra $50 or even an extra $100 on top of the Android Priv to have it run BB10. This looks like a sweet device for sure.

     Posted by Passport, BlackBerry's Beast 
    Maybe you will but, I notice a lot of money conscious individuals here. It's not a bad thing but hell, even with the Priv there's a few people saying if it's 600 bucks they won't buy it and how they can get a phone for less.



    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
    09-25-15 09:54 PM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    A couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015. If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).

    It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.
    diegonei, JeepBB and eldricho like this.
    09-25-15 09:56 PM
  18. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Maybe this could be one of those crowd funded projects? The hardware is already done, so it's just about software. Would enough people be willing to put up money for the cost of development and in return, get the opportunity to buy the hardware? After that, crowd fund again for bug fixes and updates.
    I Tweeted a DM to JohnChen and BlackBerry with this idea. But contempt for your most loyal customers isn't undoable, really. You don't treat your loyal customers like that in the first place if you have it in you to cherish them.

    Just like when Thor shot down lifting a pinky finger to add functionality to the Playbook when BB10 was deemed impractical (improving the browser to be as good as the BB10 browser would have gone a long way) Chen is going to continue to string BB10 customers along with statements like "being committed to BB10", when what is on deck is something like Microsoft being "committed to Windows", and then Windows 11 comes out and it's bug fixes and a new version of "Notepad".

    Why should BB10 fans be happy if BB is a huge success with Android? Because when it is and BB is hugely profitable on Android handsets, THAT'S when they'll reinvest in BB10? Is that something that sounds sensible or credible to ANYONE?

    I would love to be wrong. I'd pay $50 more for the slider running BB10... But I won't be buying the Slider at all running Android (I know, I know "empty threat". Except it's not.)

    If BB can sell 800,000 BB10 devices in a quarter, I believe they could sell enough BB10 sliders over the lifetime of the device at a premium to cover the additional costs of the driver development (plus other changes to BB10 to make it run properly on the Slider hardware).

    I would put my money where my mouth is via a crowdfunding project: but business people like Chen are far more worried about appearing "gauche" by participating in non-traditional experiments like this than they seem to be about respecting their customers.

    I have new respect for John Legere: he does seem to put customers first, ego / image second.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 09-25-15 at 10:12 PM.
    crackberry_geek and dusanvn like this.
    09-25-15 10:01 PM
  19. diegonei's Avatar
    A couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015. If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).

    It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.
    You guys are making me agree with Troy. Shame! Think before you post! lol
    09-25-15 10:01 PM
  20. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    A couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015. If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).

    It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.
    Nailed it!

    Unfortunately, BlackBerry NEEDS the Priv to be sucessful in order to keep making handsets. It's not just success by their measure but also by the carrier's. If BlackBerry made a BB10 version of the Priv, everyone of those sales would be a sale they didn't make with their Android experiment. They aren't in a position to compete with themselves.

    Also, it's really unfortunate that this is the way things are going but it somewhat seems like this has been the 'behind the scenes' roadmap all along. If handsets fail, BlackBerry can be a software only company. This seems to be the secret 'goal' of theirs now. And they had planned to bring all of the 'BlackBerry Suite' to Android anyway so they basically just flipped a coin and decided that they likely have a better chance selling an Android device than they do another BB10 version.

    For the 'loyal' BlackBerry 10 user, you [we] are pretty much euchred. The choice you have is either jump on board with the Priv and adapt to Android. Jump ship altogether and perhaps you'll still have a piece of BlackBerry software when it all goes cross-platform officially. Or keep your current BB10 handset indefinitely.

    The sad thing is, that even if the Priv is a success, it will largely be only because of its form factor. BlackBerry is going to '*****' out all of the software that will make the Priv unique and there will be nothing left to differentiate it. At that point, other than having the brand on your phone, why would anyone buy a BlackBerry instead of any other manufacturer? And why would BlackBerry continue to make handsets at a minimal profit margin when they can just make software at much higher profits?
    dusanvn likes this.
    09-25-15 10:16 PM
  21. velkod's Avatar
    Hopefully it's a smaller slider
    09-25-15 10:18 PM
  22. TheBirdDog's Avatar
    * my expletive deleted word up there was a verb meaning "to sell oneself" or "to compromise one's principles for personal gain".
    09-25-15 10:41 PM
  23. RyanGermann's Avatar
    First the $40 figure is exaggerated to make a point. Do you know how much Qualcomm charges a device vendor for driver development? I wish someone who knows even ballpark figures would chime in.

    A couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015.
    BB10 devices. The lack of appeal of BB10 devices and their being sold at a loss isn't really relevant (I'll explain why)

    If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).
    Breaking handset development costs out of handset build costs would be a helpful metric, but what Chen has said is that he sells the devices at a profit, but of course that the handset division isn't profitable (but with 200 more layoffs recently, it's going to get closer I guess) but it's an important point: the investment in the Android Slider has been made. It's been developed, the software is working (perhaps still not completely finished yet), the kernel hardened. Sunk costs. Irrelevant to any discussion of the premium of developing drivers for the BB10 devices. I'm sure you know this. Why not factor it in?

    It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that.
    How is it that money lost if BB10 enthusiasts are willing to pay the premium? You can say that "BB10 enthusiasts won't pay the premium", but who are you speaking for? That's the point of a Kickstarter campaign: to test that. I'm sure you are aware that there have been lots of Kickstarter campaigns that far exceeded the expectation of the sponsors / inventors, because sometimes you just don't know what the market REALLY thinks, as much as you'd like to be able to project your own attitudes onto the entire world population. If Chen were prepared to put that to the test, do a Kickstarter campaign, then we might find out. The point is that he's, well, too cowardly(?), arrogant(?) to try? Maybe he hasn't got the suggestion yet, but I can certainly imagine the following exchange.

    (Beautiful BNN analyst / commentator): "There has been some activity in the BlackBerry 10 enthusiast community: they are asking BlackBerry to start a Kickstarter campaign to raise the funds needed to get the BB10 operating system running on the great new Slider device. Have you given any thought to that?"
    (John Chen): (laughing while he starts talking) "Yes, I heard about that, I know that BlackBerry fans, BlackBerry enthusiasts really love the BB10 OS, but no, we're not going to do that at this time."
    (BNN): "Why not? It sounds like an answer to long time BB10 fan's prayers, and you don't have to commit until the funding threshold is reached."
    (Chen): "Well, we're not a startup. We work with serious enterprise environments and a Kickstarter campaign, that's something for university grads doing their automatic bubble machine or whatever. No, we're going to pursue our enterprise strategy as it was laid out 3 years ago, come what may."

    Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv.
    First of all, it's not shifting sales from the Slider. These ARE sales of the Slider. Same hardware, just running a different OS. At any moment devices configured with BB10 could be configured to run Android. The devices could be warehoused with Android installed and when someone orders BB10, THEN the device undergoes the BB10 install process, and BlackBerry charges the customer for everything to get it done. No money need be lost. Or, user gets an Android device shipped, then they download the Autoloader and run the install process on their PC to get BB10 on there. There are many ways a creative person could make this deployment easy and efficient. This doesn't have to be hard.

    Secondly, that's just conjecture anyway. Here's some more conjecture. Among all the Z10, Q10, Q5, Z30, Z3, Leap, Passport, Classic, and Porsche BB10 owners, there certainly are 500,000 BB10 fans who'd pay a premium for the Slider running BB10. What's your guess for how many active BB10 devices there are actually in use (not just sales) at this point? Perhaps the figures are available somewhere, but if "BlackBerry" market share is .3%, which leaves it at around 30 million devices worldwide, would 3 million of those be BB10 devices? Maybe 5 million? I don't know.... but those still using BB10 at this stage either use it because the HAVE to (the military etc.) or because they really REALLY like BB10 (or else they'd have switched to Android or iOS by now).

    Also consider that because the Slider could always be "reset" to run Android, there would be a lot more tech enthusiasts willing to give BB10 a try (which could lead to positive word of mouth etc, doesn't really seem to be a downside to me) knowing that Android was just an "autoloader" away.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 09-25-15 at 11:06 PM.
    crackberry_geek and z3user like this.
    09-25-15 10:43 PM
  24. anon(9353145)'s Avatar
    A couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015. If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).

    It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.
    So why are they still trying to sell handsets if it's so obviously a money drain?

    Let's assume the end game is software and services. Why not lull the gullible BB10 users along until they can transition. Why invest the money in building an Android handset?
    09-25-15 10:46 PM
  25. jeffydude05's Avatar
    A couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015. If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).

    It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.
    Maybe they don't realize how small 800k is...even Microsoft shipped 8.4 million phones last quarter. This is their hail mary, it works they will keep making android. If it fails they will likely drop hardware.
    dolco and dusanvn like this.
    09-25-15 11:14 PM
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