"BlackBerry is announcing TWO new additions to its handheld device roadmap"
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2) They have an existing platform and devices to sell. The "truth" would hinder their current efforts.09-25-15 03:04 PMLike 0 -
- I feel like the majority of users would like to see a actual new device launched. Not a year old phone with a new color. Seems a bit gimmicky.
Hell, look at how many people on here have been going strong for the last year and a bit that they want a new all touch device!!! (Leap doesn't count)
Posted via the BlackBerry Classic09-25-15 03:26 PMLike 0 - Tre LawrenceBetween RealitiesWhy stop at "triple" then? Let's go for all out fantasy...donnation likes this.09-25-15 04:04 PMLike 1
- Do you mean the double dog dare "Quad" Boot phone- based on the new unannounced and fictional partnerships with Apple and MS to include iOS and Win10.09-25-15 04:16 PMLike 5
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Make it a Passport sized Slider and I'll hand them my Visa without even testing it out first.09-25-15 04:19 PMLike 2 - "BlackBerry is announcing two new additions to its handheld device roadmap"
Taken from their press release: BlackBerry announces Q2 Fiscal 2016 results | CrackBerry.com
Two new additions? Ok, one is the Android slider... what was the second addition?
When they say "While the new device will provide a choice in OS to new and existing customers" it can just mean you have a choice to buy an older phone with BB10 or get the slider with Android, but surely the following is not an addition to their roadmap: "Second, the company will continue to develop and enhance the BlackBerry 10 operating system"ayngling likes this.09-25-15 04:20 PMLike 1 -
If the Slider did get BB10, how many would be sold? Maybe 3 million? Fewer? Let's say only half a million, 500,000 devices.
It's not WORTH it for BlackBerry to spend $20 million to sell 500,000 BB10 devices: remember the development costs for the hardware are sunk in the Android OS device development, and Chen can't be bothered to invest WHATEVER it would cost to get BB10 onto this EXISTING device (with relatively conventional parts, but the higher resolution screen might be a wrinkle... but I digress).
So across 500,000 devices, $20 million (a number WAY huger than it would actually cost) is $40 per device.
They can't find a way to make $40 on 500,000 Android Sliders that have BB10 running on it? Even by CHARGING MORE!?
Please someone tell me that developing the drivers for the Qualcomm chips for BB10 costs Dr. Evil numbers "100 Billion Dollars!" and I won't believe a word of it, but the math just doesn't make sense.
Chen is just pulling Thor: "Screw You our most loyal customers who stuck with us through thick and thin: we don't even want to bother spending $40 per device for you, even though we'd make way more than that in profit on the device you buy."
It's abominable but it is effectively what Chen is doing here.
Someone do the math again and tell me how I'm wrong and how I shouldn't just feel like Chen has like his predecessors, just showed what BlackBerry Ltd. thinks of customer loyalty: we're chumps.09-25-15 05:49 PMLike 5 - Nobody wants a new more powerful BB10 device than me: but listen to what Chen said on the call. There will be no BB10 version of the SLIDER (a device that EXISTS and WILL be released) because the cost to develop hardware / chipset drivers for the BB10 OS to run on the device is cost prohibitive! I can't imagine how much it actually is, but "cost prohibitive" in my mind is upwards of $20 Million (when you have $2.5 BILLION in cash: chump change). But in Chen's mind, since spending that $20 million (I doubt it's anywhere NEAR that much of course) would just be money down the drain because any BB10 devices he might sell would be TOO FEW to justify the investment.
If the Slider did get BB10, how many would be sold? Maybe 3 million? Fewer? Let's say only half a million, 500,000 devices.
It's not WORTH it for BlackBerry to spend $20 million to sell 500,000 BB10 devices: remember the development costs for the hardware are sunk in the Android OS device development, and Chen can't be bothered to invest WHATEVER it would cost to get BB10 onto this EXISTING device (with relatively conventional parts, but the higher resolution screen might be a wrinkle... but I digress).
So across 500,000 devices, $20 million (a number WAY huger than it would actually cost) is $40 per device.
They can't find a way to make $40 on 500,000 Android Sliders that have BB10 running on it? Even by CHARGING MORE!?
Please someone tell me that developing the drivers for the Qualcomm chips for BB10 costs Dr. Evil numbers "100 Billion Dollars!" and I won't believe a word of it, but the math just doesn't make sense.
Chen is just pulling Thor: "Screw You our most loyal customers who stuck with us through thick and thin: we don't even want to bother spending $40 per device for you, even though we'd make way more than that in profit on the device you buy."
It's abominable but it is effectively what Chen is doing here.
Someone do the math again and tell me how I'm wrong and how I shouldn't just feel like Chen has like his predecessors, just showed what BlackBerry Ltd. thinks of customer loyalty: we're chumps.
Posted via CB1009-25-15 06:16 PMLike 0 - Nobody wants a new more powerful BB10 device than me: but listen to what Chen said on the call. There will be no BB10 version of the SLIDER (a device that EXISTS and WILL be released) because the cost to develop hardware / chipset drivers for the BB10 OS to run on the device is cost prohibitive! I can't imagine how much it actually is, but "cost prohibitive" in my mind is upwards of $20 Million (when you have $2.5 BILLION in cash: chump change). But in Chen's mind, since spending that $20 million (I doubt it's anywhere NEAR that much of course) would just be money down the drain because any BB10 devices he might sell would be TOO FEW to justify the investment.
If the Slider did get BB10, how many would be sold? Maybe 3 million? Fewer? Let's say only half a million, 500,000 devices.
It's not WORTH it for BlackBerry to spend $20 million to sell 500,000 BB10 devices: remember the development costs for the hardware are sunk in the Android OS device development, and Chen can't be bothered to invest WHATEVER it would cost to get BB10 onto this EXISTING device (with relatively conventional parts, but the higher resolution screen might be a wrinkle... but I digress).
So across 500,000 devices, $20 million (a number WAY huger than it would actually cost) is $40 per device.
They can't find a way to make $40 on 500,000 Android Sliders that have BB10 running on it? Even by CHARGING MORE!?
Please someone tell me that developing the drivers for the Qualcomm chips for BB10 costs Dr. Evil numbers "100 Billion Dollars!" and I won't believe a word of it, but the math just doesn't make sense.
Chen is just pulling Thor: "Screw You our most loyal customers who stuck with us through thick and thin: we don't even want to bother spending $40 per device for you, even though we'd make way more than that in profit on the device you buy."
It's abominable but it is effectively what Chen is doing here.
Someone do the math again and tell me how I'm wrong and how I shouldn't just feel like Chen has like his predecessors, just showed what BlackBerry Ltd. thinks of customer loyalty: we're chumps.
What profit?09-25-15 07:29 PMLike 0 - Nobody wants a new more powerful BB10 device than me: but listen to what Chen said on the call. There will be no BB10 version of the SLIDER (a device that EXISTS and WILL be released) because the cost to develop hardware / chipset drivers for the BB10 OS to run on the device is cost prohibitive! I can't imagine how much it actually is, but "cost prohibitive" in my mind is upwards of $20 Million (when you have $2.5 BILLION in cash: chump change). But in Chen's mind, since spending that $20 million (I doubt it's anywhere NEAR that much of course) would just be money down the drain because any BB10 devices he might sell would be TOO FEW to justify the investment.
If the Slider did get BB10, how many would be sold? Maybe 3 million? Fewer? Let's say only half a million, 500,000 devices.
It's not WORTH it for BlackBerry to spend $20 million to sell 500,000 BB10 devices: remember the development costs for the hardware are sunk in the Android OS device development, and Chen can't be bothered to invest WHATEVER it would cost to get BB10 onto this EXISTING device (with relatively conventional parts, but the higher resolution screen might be a wrinkle... but I digress).
So across 500,000 devices, $20 million (a number WAY huger than it would actually cost) is $40 per device.
They can't find a way to make $40 on 500,000 Android Sliders that have BB10 running on it? Even by CHARGING MORE!?
Please someone tell me that developing the drivers for the Qualcomm chips for BB10 costs Dr. Evil numbers "100 Billion Dollars!" and I won't believe a word of it, but the math just doesn't make sense.
Chen is just pulling Thor: "Screw You our most loyal customers who stuck with us through thick and thin: we don't even want to bother spending $40 per device for you, even though we'd make way more than that in profit on the device you buy."
It's abominable but it is effectively what Chen is doing here.
Someone do the math again and tell me how I'm wrong and how I shouldn't just feel like Chen has like his predecessors, just showed what BlackBerry Ltd. thinks of customer loyalty: we're chumps.09-25-15 07:58 PMLike 0 - Maybe this could be one of those crowd funded projects? The hardware is already done, so it's just about software. Would enough people be willing to put up money for the cost of development and in return, get the opportunity to buy the hardware? After that, crowd fund again for bug fixes and updates.
Posted by Passport, BlackBerry's Beast 09-25-15 08:37 PMLike 3 -
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk09-25-15 08:54 PMLike 0 -
It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.09-25-15 08:56 PMLike 3 - Maybe this could be one of those crowd funded projects? The hardware is already done, so it's just about software. Would enough people be willing to put up money for the cost of development and in return, get the opportunity to buy the hardware? After that, crowd fund again for bug fixes and updates.
Just like when Thor shot down lifting a pinky finger to add functionality to the Playbook when BB10 was deemed impractical (improving the browser to be as good as the BB10 browser would have gone a long way) Chen is going to continue to string BB10 customers along with statements like "being committed to BB10", when what is on deck is something like Microsoft being "committed to Windows", and then Windows 11 comes out and it's bug fixes and a new version of "Notepad".
Why should BB10 fans be happy if BB is a huge success with Android? Because when it is and BB is hugely profitable on Android handsets, THAT'S when they'll reinvest in BB10? Is that something that sounds sensible or credible to ANYONE?
I would love to be wrong. I'd pay $50 more for the slider running BB10... But I won't be buying the Slider at all running Android (I know, I know "empty threat". Except it's not.)
If BB can sell 800,000 BB10 devices in a quarter, I believe they could sell enough BB10 sliders over the lifetime of the device at a premium to cover the additional costs of the driver development (plus other changes to BB10 to make it run properly on the Slider hardware).
I would put my money where my mouth is via a crowdfunding project: but business people like Chen are far more worried about appearing "gauche" by participating in non-traditional experiments like this than they seem to be about respecting their customers.
I have new respect for John Legere: he does seem to put customers first, ego / image second.Last edited by RyanGermann; 09-25-15 at 09:12 PM.
crackberry_geek and dusanvn like this.09-25-15 09:01 PMLike 2 - diegoneiRetired Mod & AmbassadorA couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015. If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).
It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.09-25-15 09:01 PMLike 0 - A couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015. If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).
It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.
Unfortunately, BlackBerry NEEDS the Priv to be sucessful in order to keep making handsets. It's not just success by their measure but also by the carrier's. If BlackBerry made a BB10 version of the Priv, everyone of those sales would be a sale they didn't make with their Android experiment. They aren't in a position to compete with themselves.
Also, it's really unfortunate that this is the way things are going but it somewhat seems like this has been the 'behind the scenes' roadmap all along. If handsets fail, BlackBerry can be a software only company. This seems to be the secret 'goal' of theirs now. And they had planned to bring all of the 'BlackBerry Suite' to Android anyway so they basically just flipped a coin and decided that they likely have a better chance selling an Android device than they do another BB10 version.
For the 'loyal' BlackBerry 10 user, you [we] are pretty much euchred. The choice you have is either jump on board with the Priv and adapt to Android. Jump ship altogether and perhaps you'll still have a piece of BlackBerry software when it all goes cross-platform officially. Or keep your current BB10 handset indefinitely.
The sad thing is, that even if the Priv is a success, it will largely be only because of its form factor. BlackBerry is going to '*****' out all of the software that will make the Priv unique and there will be nothing left to differentiate it. At that point, other than having the brand on your phone, why would anyone buy a BlackBerry instead of any other manufacturer? And why would BlackBerry continue to make handsets at a minimal profit margin when they can just make software at much higher profits?dusanvn likes this.09-25-15 09:16 PMLike 1 - * my expletive deleted word up there was a verb meaning "to sell oneself" or "to compromise one's principles for personal gain".09-25-15 09:41 PMLike 0
- First the $40 figure is exaggerated to make a point. Do you know how much Qualcomm charges a device vendor for driver development? I wish someone who knows even ballpark figures would chime in.
(Beautiful BNN analyst / commentator): "There has been some activity in the BlackBerry 10 enthusiast community: they are asking BlackBerry to start a Kickstarter campaign to raise the funds needed to get the BB10 operating system running on the great new Slider device. Have you given any thought to that?"
(John Chen): (laughing while he starts talking) "Yes, I heard about that, I know that BlackBerry fans, BlackBerry enthusiasts really love the BB10 OS, but no, we're not going to do that at this time."
(BNN): "Why not? It sounds like an answer to long time BB10 fan's prayers, and you don't have to commit until the funding threshold is reached."
(Chen): "Well, we're not a startup. We work with serious enterprise environments and a Kickstarter campaign, that's something for university grads doing their automatic bubble machine or whatever. No, we're going to pursue our enterprise strategy as it was laid out 3 years ago, come what may."
Secondly, that's just conjecture anyway. Here's some more conjecture. Among all the Z10, Q10, Q5, Z30, Z3, Leap, Passport, Classic, and Porsche BB10 owners, there certainly are 500,000 BB10 fans who'd pay a premium for the Slider running BB10. What's your guess for how many active BB10 devices there are actually in use (not just sales) at this point? Perhaps the figures are available somewhere, but if "BlackBerry" market share is .3%, which leaves it at around 30 million devices worldwide, would 3 million of those be BB10 devices? Maybe 5 million? I don't know.... but those still using BB10 at this stage either use it because the HAVE to (the military etc.) or because they really REALLY like BB10 (or else they'd have switched to Android or iOS by now).
Also consider that because the Slider could always be "reset" to run Android, there would be a lot more tech enthusiasts willing to give BB10 a try (which could lead to positive word of mouth etc, doesn't really seem to be a downside to me) knowing that Android was just an "autoloader" away.Last edited by RyanGermann; 09-25-15 at 10:06 PM.
crackberry_geek and z3user like this.09-25-15 09:43 PMLike 2 - A couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015. If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).
It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.
Let's assume the end game is software and services. Why not lull the gullible BB10 users along until they can transition. Why invest the money in building an Android handset?09-25-15 09:46 PMLike 0 - A couple of analysts have estimated that BB is losing $100 per handset sold in 2015. If it was as easy as raising the sales price to generate more revenue, I'm fairly certain BB would have done so. Yet instead, they have run lots of sales, and even then are only managing to sell 800k phones globally (with some of those still being BBOS phones!).
It's easy to see why Chen doesn't want to pay (lose) another $40 per phone sold, or even half that. Plus, it wouldn't likely increase the overall number of BB phones sold, it would just shift a few sales from the Priv. There's just no business case.09-25-15 10:14 PMLike 2
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"BlackBerry is announcing TWO new additions to its handheld device roadmap"
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