10-23-15 04:03 AM
144 ... 3456
tools
  1. KAM1138's Avatar
    How would staying with BlackBerry 10 support their supporters if staying solely with BlackBerry 10 shuts down their handset division? If Priv does well it will allow their handset division to stay in business and keep BlackBerry 10 aground for you, enterprise, and governments.

    So yes, they're supporting their supporters, you're being to emotional and short sighted to see it.

    Posted via CB10
    Assuming that "Their supporters" mean fans of an Android OS, then yes. If one talks about someone who actually HAS supported BlackBerry's products throughout, while others jumped to Android or iPhone or whatever, then no--they are abandoning those people (BB10 Fans), or soon will be, just like they abandoned Playbook users.

    If acovey is being "emotional" then you're engaging in fantasy by ignoring the many other issues and reasons WHY BB10 failed. If you don't consider the entire situation sufficiently, then you're not likely to find the right solution. That's where I happen to think BlackBerry is right now--and you're following their lead.

    That's fine--it COULD work out, I just highly doubt it. Plus--if you think Chen really wants to save the Handset business, then I think you're going to end up disappointed. This is all about selling "security" software--that's the plan, and they've been moving towards that with their acquisitions. The Priv is likely some half-baked attempt to demonstrate that this can work.

    KAM
    acovey likes this.
    10-19-15 10:10 AM
  2. ubizmo's Avatar
    They ARE repeating the same behavior and expecting a different outcome--you just don't realize it. Switching to Android is NOT the key issue that will solve the myriad of problems at BlackBerry. It will solve one--Ecosystem, which is a "solution" their former customers already found by leaving BlackBerry. To bring them back, they will need to address all the non-technical issues (the Brand remains a joke currently), as well as offering some major technical BENEFIT--not merely offering what everyone else offers (Android Ecosystem).
    I don't disagree with what you've said, but rehabilitating the BlackBerry brand entails having good products. That's not a sufficient condition but it is a necessary one. As for major technical benefit, I don't think the Priv offers it, but it offers a set of minor technical benefits: physical keyboard, removable storage, Hub, some kind of added security, and a large battery. As a package, these add up to something not easy to find elsewhere in the Android universe. There's no major technical advantage because at this point nobody knows what that would look like.

    Finding someone other than Chen to talk to the public about the Priv ought to be a priority, I agree. And of course, with the Priv they have something to market, so they should do it. I personally don't agree with the expectation-lowering premise that the Priv "isn't targeted to consumers." BlackBerry very much hopes consumers will buy it in droves; of that I have no doubt.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    10-19-15 11:34 AM
  3. KAM1138's Avatar
    I don't disagree with what you've said, but rehabilitating the BlackBerry brand entails having good products. That's not a sufficient condition but it is a necessary one. As for major technical benefit, I don't think the Priv offers it, but it offers a set of minor technical benefits: physical keyboard, removable storage, Hub, some kind of added security, and a large battery. As a package, these add up to something not easy to find elsewhere in the Android universe. There's no major technical advantage because at this point nobody knows what that would look like.

    Finding someone other than Chen to talk to the public about the Priv ought to be a priority, I agree. And of course, with the Priv they have something to market, so they should do it. I personally don't agree with the expectation-lowering premise that the Priv "isn't targeted to consumers." BlackBerry very much hopes consumers will buy it in droves; of that I have no doubt.
    Well, BB10 is a solid Platform, but one that they I don't believe they have been really developing for some time. For me, BB10 products ARE good. The Passport is a great device, and I still love my Z10. Other people love the Z10, or Classic. I don't think we are idiots, so that tells me they CAN reach customers and provide them with a good product, but the fact is they Failed to reach more customers.

    I think people that look to BB10 as the weak point are misreading the problem. I think the Foundation of the failure was in Brand and Marketing, followed by support. BB10 placed upon that crumbling foundation had no chance. Many people look at it the other way, blaming BB10, or its lack of Ecosystem support.

    But Ecosystem doesn't happen overnight--not for iOS, and not for Android--and it requires both support from the OS developer, and of course a certain level of customer base. BlackBerry was in a position where they needed to build a customer base, and to do that they needed to be able to offer certain "vital" (ie most popular) apps. They didn't do what it took (by any route) to make that happen, and I simply don't believe that this was impossible to accomplish with several billion dollars in reserve, and YEARS of time developing BB10.

    If they HAD done that, then maybe they could have built upwards instead of losing more and more marketshare. They could have effectively reached MORE potential customers offering them MORE of what they want/"need" which would lead to more developers seeing the benefit, which would lead to more customers, upward spiral. That's the only way they could have done it without a true revolution (something no one had thought of which caused a sudden massive shift in customer view of the Brand).

    If the Priv doesn't offer a Major technical Benefit, then they've doomed themselves. I think few people are going to seek out BlackBerry for minor benefits, which may or may not appeal to any one person.

    I see nothing in Marketing of the Priv (what there is) or talking about it informally that is approaching professional, or appealing. They are BADLY failing on this front (again).

    KAM
    KenV54, ubizmo and acovey like this.
    10-19-15 12:26 PM
  4. europolska00's Avatar
    No, you don't continue BB10 for "a few fanboys."

    What you do is properly support your product, both technically and actually selling your product (PR, Marketing, Brand maintenance, etc). Things BlackBerry CHOSE not to do. These things both maintain and build a CUSTOMER base.

    All of this "What would you have them do"? Stuff to justify going to Android is based on a false premise--that is that they did everything well with BB10. They didn't. Abandoning a solid Technology (BB10), and NOT continuing its development (both technologically and otherwise) is a choice, which has LED them to where they are today.

    Stop treating BlackBerry leadership as if they are helpless victims of chance, rather than their own incompetence. That incompetence hasn't ended because they decided that Android was a CHEAPER path to follow.

    They ARE repeating the same behavior and expecting a different outcome--you just don't realize it. Switching to Android is NOT the key issue that will solve the myriad of problems at BlackBerry. It will solve one--Ecosystem, which is a "solution" their former customers already found by leaving BlackBerry. To bring them back, they will need to address all the non-technical issues (the Brand remains a joke currently), as well as offering some major technical BENEFIT--not merely offering what everyone else offers (Android Ecosystem).

    They are repeating the same behavior--NOT addressing their Brand Image, NOT marketing, NOT improving customer service, NOT communicating with customers (PR), while allowing their CEO to stick his foot in his mouth at every turn. The same behavior that led them to being seen as a joke, or nonexistent (to many consumers) has NOT been changed at all.

    But people think that doing what everyone else is doing (using Android) is going to somehow overcome all those other issues, beyond the Ecosystem shortcomings. Good luck with that.

    KAM
    Don't disagree. All spot on. You did forget one more major flaw; the app ecosystem. But those mistakes are done and can't be undone.

    My question was what do you expect them to do now? The damage is done and we need to proceed from here. The decision to go Android, unfortunately, is the correct one. Evolve or die.


    Posted via CB10
    KenV54 likes this.
    10-19-15 12:42 PM
  5. europolska00's Avatar
    Assuming that "Their supporters" mean fans of an Android OS, then yes. If one talks about someone who actually HAS supported BlackBerry's products throughout, while others jumped to Android or iPhone or whatever, then no--they are abandoning those people (BB10 Fans), or soon will be, just like they abandoned Playbook users.

    If acovey is being "emotional" then you're engaging in fantasy by ignoring the many other issues and reasons WHY BB10 failed. If you don't consider the entire situation sufficiently, then you're not likely to find the right solution. That's where I happen to think BlackBerry is right now--and you're following their lead.

    That's fine--it COULD work out, I just highly doubt it. Plus--if you think Chen really wants to save the Handset business, then I think you're going to end up disappointed. This is all about selling "security" software--that's the plan, and they've been moving towards that with their acquisitions. The Priv is likely some half-baked attempt to demonstrate that this can work.

    KAM
    I'm sorry you and Acovey believe BlackBerry owes you something. Contrary to how you feel, they don't. Vote with your dollars like everyone else. Don't like the direction they're going. Don't buy a Priv. But don't think they owe you anything or it's the wrong business move because you feel personally offended. That's the emotional thinking I'm accusing you guys of.

    Posted via CB10
    Mr4aces likes this.
    10-19-15 12:47 PM
  6. KAM1138's Avatar
    Don't disagree. All spot on. You did forget one more major flaw; the app ecosystem. But those mistakes are done and can't be undone.

    My question was what do you expect them to do now? The damage is done and we need to proceed from here. The decision to go Android, unfortunately, is the correct one. Evolve or die.

    Posted via CB10
    I did mention the ecosystem--that's a problem most people focus on, and I don't disagree, but it is just one among many.

    NOW...is Android the only choice? That might be true. The point I've been trying to make is that choosing this path has its own costs (even more damaging to BB10's viability), and that this path was chosen some time back--and is somewhat self-fulfilling.

    Whether going Android is the correct one or not is not yet determined. It is very possible that this will not save Blackberry hardware, and it might still sell poorly. What I'm looking to for "success" is whether BlackBerry can match or exceed Windows phone's market share. The reason is because people have claimed that Ecosystem is THE issue, and the Priv will address that.

    Honestly, I don't think that's going to happen, but we will see. Price will be a major factor I think, and if it comes in high, I think they're done.

    KAM
    KenV54 likes this.
    10-19-15 12:51 PM
  7. KAM1138's Avatar
    I'm sorry you and Acovey believe BlackBerry owes you something. Contrary to how you feel, they don't. Vote with your dollars like everyone else. Don't like the direction they're going. Don't buy a Priv. But don't think they owe you anything or it's the wrong business move because you feel personally offended. That's the emotional thinking I'm accusing you guys of.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm sorry that you feel the need to rely on the non-argument of accusing people of "emotional thinking." It doesn't seem you've really addressed what I've said.
    I don't recall saying I was offended, nor that BlackBerry "owes" me. I was stating facts about a company supporting or not supporting customers who want one product vs another.

    However, if you think that customer loyalty isn't a factor and something a business should be concerned with, then you'd be wrong.

    KAM
    RyanGermann and acovey like this.
    10-19-15 01:01 PM
  8. europolska00's Avatar
    I did mention the ecosystem--that's a problem most people focus on, and I don't disagree, but it is just one among many.

    NOW...is Android the only choice? That might be true. The point I've been trying to make is that choosing this path has its own costs (even more damaging to BB10's viability), and that this path was chosen some time back--and is somewhat self-fulfilling.

    Whether going Android is the correct one or not is not yet determined. It is very possible that this will not save Blackberry hardware, and it might still sell poorly. What I'm looking to for "success" is whether BlackBerry can match or exceed Windows phone's market share. The reason is because people have claimed that Ecosystem is THE issue, and the Priv will address that.

    Honestly, I don't think that's going to happen, but we will see. Price will be a major factor I think, and if it comes in high, I think they're done.

    KAM
    You're right, now we have to see how this plays out. And I completely agree that pricing is a huge issue, and they need to get it right. But I'm fearful that they won't.

    Posted via CB10
    10-19-15 01:17 PM
  9. KenV54's Avatar
    I did mention the ecosystem--that's a problem most people focus on, and I don't disagree, but it is just one among many.

    NOW...is Android the only choice? That might be true. The point I've been trying to make is that choosing this path has its own costs (even more damaging to BB10's viability), and that this path was chosen some time back--and is somewhat self-fulfilling.

    Whether going Android is the correct one or not is not yet determined. It is very possible that this will not save Blackberry hardware, and it might still sell poorly. What I'm looking to for "success" is whether BlackBerry can match or exceed Windows phone's market share. The reason is because people have claimed that Ecosystem is THE issue, and the Priv will address that.

    Honestly, I don't think that's going to happen, but we will see. Price will be a major factor I think, and if it comes in high, I think they're done.

    KAM
    @KAM1138, I agree with all that you have said, and can't improve much on it, but I'll make a couple of comments.

    When I look at and use my SE Passport, the latest and greatest of all the BlackBerry devices I've owned over the past 10 years or so, I think, what a shame that RIM, now BlackBerry, lost what they once had, and in every way. I see it all as a result of human failure at the top. No, BlackBerry never had a Steve Jobs, but neither did any of the companies other than Apple. Jobs had a vision like practically no one else. BlackBerry apparently had no vision whatsoever after 2010 or so, and yet they were financially in the position to be innovative and to keep their market share.

    I do think it was primarily the ecosystem, and by fairly wide margin. The average consumer looks at apps. When I was using the Z10--I got it the first day out in 2013--for me, it was heads and shoulders above the existing iPhone, for my purposes, with the Hub and all. It just didn't have the apps, but surely they would come. Well, they didn't come, not the way they did with iOS. For me it didn't matter much, but most of us BlackBerry addicts aren't "app-centered" the same way the iPhone people are.

    I can't see the Priv revitalizing the BlackBerry market. Too little, too late. Maybe it will be a nicer phone than the Samsung Androids, and with the physical keyboard it will attract some people. But I suspect that most of the texters and Tweeters, with their 140 character, abbreviated and wordless messages, don't care about a Pkbd at all--the virtual keyboard serves them quite well. I still do fairly long emails on my Passport, and find it much easier to do than with my Z10, but I am not representative of the smartphone market at this point.

    RIP, BlackBerry, I am really sorry to say.
    acovey likes this.
    10-19-15 01:21 PM
  10. RyanGermann's Avatar
    It's because Google intentionally made the app that way. Google wants your eyes on the screen when YouTube video is running, because they're selling YouTube video ad space to their paying customers, the advertisers. They want to be able to assure those customers that people are seeing their ads.
    I would like anyone who has ever accused anti-Google commenters to "take off their tinfoil hat" to cram this post up their a** sideways.
    10-19-15 01:28 PM
  11. KAM1138's Avatar
    @KAM1138, I agree with all that you have said, and can't improve much on it, but I'll make a couple of comments.

    When I look at and use my SE Passport, the latest and greatest of all the BlackBerry devices I've owned over the past 10 years or so, I think, what a shame that RIM, now BlackBerry, lost what they once had, and in every way. I see it all as a result of human failure at the top. No, BlackBerry never had a Steve Jobs, but neither did any of the companies other than Apple. Jobs had a vision like practically no one else. BlackBerry apparently had no vision whatsoever after 2010 or so, and yet they were financially in the position to be innovative and to keep their market share.

    I do think it was primarily the ecosystem, and by fairly wide margin. The average consumer looks at apps. When I was using the Z10--I got it the first day out in 2013--for me, it was heads and shoulders above the existing iPhone, for my purposes, with the Hub and all. It just didn't have the apps, but surely they would come. Well, they didn't come, not the way they did with iOS. For me it didn't matter much, but most of us BlackBerry addicts aren't "app-centered" the same way the iPhone people are.

    I can't see the Priv revitalizing the BlackBerry market. Too little, too late. Maybe it will be a nicer phone than the Samsung Androids, and with the physical keyboard it will attract some people. But I suspect that most of the texters and Tweeters, with their 140 character, abbreviated and wordless messages, don't care about a Pkbd at all--the virtual keyboard serves them quite well. I still do fairly long emails on my Passport, and find it much easier to do than with my Z10, but I am not representative of the smartphone market at this point.

    RIP, BlackBerry, I am really sorry to say.
    I think the Passport is really a great device, but it is also really difficult for people to immediately understand. It is a phone you have to use, and being so different compared to every other slab phone was an issue. Not sure it would have mattered at that fairly late date anyway.

    I think most people are really fine with a virtual keyboard, and are used to it, even if they were formerly a BlackBerry user. There will be some that will prefer it, all other things being equal, but probably won't go out of their way to get it. I personally like the Slider concept (former Palm Pre user), so that initially really appealed to me, but Android doesn't. Curved Screen--I'm skeptical of that too.

    We are on the same page. I just don't see anything about the Priv that is going to have the power to revitalize the company or specifically the handset end of it. I think this is all part of a gradual, planned exit, where they can test a few things they might be able to sell off to others, or lease.

    Back to the Passport--I admit, it took me a while to warm up to it. When it first came out, I just couldn't quite get there. I like a 4 row keyboard a bit more, and while I am pretty much used to it now (and like it), it is strange. I think it has some excellent features, but putting it ONLY on an odd form factor was an issue.

    KAM
    acovey likes this.
    10-19-15 01:32 PM
  12. RyanGermann's Avatar
    I think it has some excellent features, but putting it ONLY on an odd form factor was an issue.
    But that's the whole story of BB10 devices, in a nutshell.

    First device: trying to market a full screen device to a loyal customer base of 80 million users that have PKBs with TrackPad and mouse... and to other non-loyal customers used to devices that have physical HOME buttons on them (all popular devices at that time and most to this day have home buttons).

    ...and trying to market it to "app lovers" by basically lying about the breadth of variety and general quality of the apps available.

    Then, bring out a device with a great PKB, but with a small 720 x 720 screen and no toolbelt. Alienate EVERYONE at the same time!

    Then release an "Entry Level" device is $400, at a time when "entry level" means $150.

    Then, a successor to the full screen, but not advertised, during the period when the company was up for sale.

    Then, some ugly monstrosity with a strange keyboard, but still the square screen... turned out to be better "in person" than in the photos, and it does have a following, albeit a niche following.

    Then FINALLY the device with the PKB and Toolbelt, but still the small square screen when everyone's hooked on playing video and other "landscape" uses of their devices.

    Then, Finally the Slider with the full 16 x 9 screen AND the PKB... but still, no buttons (strange gestures etc.) even though the most popular devices available STILL all have home buttons on them, and there's no toolbelt to make this huge phone possibly usable with one hand.

    One after another, compromise devices as though they have a pathological fear of success.

    The no-compromises device is shown in my avatar.
    acovey likes this.
    10-19-15 05:19 PM
  13. greg_z's Avatar
    Thanks for the grammar lesion BUT still will NOT buy an Android phone with a Blackberry label stuck on it.
    Amen to that!

    Posted via CB10
    acovey likes this.
    10-19-15 05:58 PM
  14. acovey's Avatar
    Every has explain a million times why that can't happen. We can't explain it anymore. Re read the threads friend.

    Posted via CB10
    I know some people say it can't happen BUT I believe it can and if enough people speak up it may happen. I'm NOT leaving Blackberry like some IPhone users and Android users did when they were unhappy I'm staying to fight for what I want.
    10-19-15 10:31 PM
  15. ikalinin's Avatar
    I just hope you can use it with Blend!

    Posted via CB10 on the Classic
    10-19-15 10:45 PM
  16. europolska00's Avatar
    I know some people say it can't happen BUT I believe it can and if enough people speak up it may happen. I'm NOT leaving Blackberry like some IPhone users and Android users did when they were unhappy I'm staying to fight for what I want.
    Why don't you guys do a kick starter to pay for the drivers.

    Posted via CB10
    10-19-15 10:48 PM
  17. acovey's Avatar
    Why don't you guys do a kick starter to pay for the drivers.

    Posted via CB10
    What's a kick starter? I use to have one on a motor cycle. It's not my job (well I don't have a job I'm retired) to fund phone design BUT it is my job to say what I want in a phone. If you want to state that Blackberry is correct that's your right and if I want to say their wrong I will. If Blackberry asks Crackberry if everyone wants Android and only the Android supporters reply I guess I know what they will offer. ME I WANT A SLIDER WITH BB10.
    10-19-15 11:44 PM
  18. vgorous's Avatar
    Me too. BB10 please.

    My android phone is somewhere in my house. I don't even care if I lose it.


    I also noticed I can skip the ads on youtube when using my BB10 browser.

    Posted via CB10
    acovey and bbfanatic11 like this.
    10-20-15 12:27 AM
  19. europolska00's Avatar
    What's a kick starter? I use to have one on a motor cycle. It's not my job (well I don't have a job I'm retired) to fund phone design BUT it is my job to say what I want in a phone. If you want to state that Blackberry is correct that's your right and if I want to say their wrong I will. If Blackberry asks Crackberry if everyone wants Android and only the Android supporters reply I guess I know what they will offer. ME I WANT A SLIDER WITH BB10.
    Kickstarter is crowd funding.

    It's not BlackBerry 's job to keep making, and losing money, on phones for a market that doesn't want them. They have only lost lots of money on BlackBerry 10 devices and they've made probably more of those devices than they should have. They've given it many tries. There is a point where you have to throw in the towel. They are at 0.3% market share and dropping.

    But sure, they'll make another BlackBerry 10 phone, you know, to make you happy. The business can go under so long as you're happy.

    Facts:
    BlackBerry 10 unprofitable on all eight devices made.
    BlackBerry 10 on Priv hardware too expensive to make drivers; the company will not see a return on that expenditure.
    BlackBerry 10 market share is now at 0.3% and dropping.
    Android Market is over 80% now.

    Your argument:
    "I WANT IT! BlackBerry owes me and will change its mind if we cry and get them to ignore the numbers!"

    You can have an opinion, but if you ignore the numbers, your opinion isn't just cute, it's wrong.

    Posted via CB10
    MO3iusONE likes this.
    10-20-15 08:41 AM
  20. RyanGermann's Avatar
    Your argument:
    "I WANT IT! BlackBerry owes me and will change its mind if we cry and get them to ignore the numbers!"
    There is a group of BB10 advocates that would pay a premium for a BB10 version of the Slider, if BlackBerry chose to make it.

    There is a group who would put their money where their mouth is via a crowd-funding campaign.

    BlackBerry has to be willing to "sponsor" such a campaign: but BlackBerry has no interest in "working harder" or thinking creatively to support their most loyal customers. BlackBerry is all talk when it comes to being appreciative of loyal customers who sincerely like and advocate for their products and the company.

    I'm still a strong supporter of BB10 and BB10 devices. They're great. I've stopped giving a damn about BlackBerry Ltd., for the most part, because they've stopped giving a damn about us ages ago. It's just a company, if they stop making interesting technology (Android devices are not "interesting", they're a commodity), I will lament the loss of BlackBerry 10 OS and devices, but not the loss of BlackBerry Ltd.

    That's the fruit of the seeds BlackBerry management is sowing here. And the BlackBerry community at large seems OK with just accepting "They have to do it to stay in business", as if casual disregard for your most loyal customers is a sound business decision. Anyone who ran a SUCCESSFUL business knows you have to treat your customers respectfully, and if BlackBerry isn't willing to put in the extra effort with BB10 via innovative alternative funding approaches, that tells you that they don't manage their company to be successful: they manage it to barely get by, which isn't a recipe for long term success, and criticism in its varied forms (from temper tantrums to public shaming) are all fair game.
    acovey likes this.
    10-20-15 09:13 AM
  21. europolska00's Avatar
    There is a group of BB10 advocates that would pay a premium for a BB10 version of the Slider, if BlackBerry chose to make it.

    There is a group who would put their money where their mouth is via a crowd-funding campaign.

    BlackBerry has to be willing to "sponsor" such a campaign: but BlackBerry has no interest in "working harder" or thinking creatively to support their most loyal customers. BlackBerry is all talk when it comes to being appreciative of loyal customers who sincerely like and advocate for their products and the company.

    I'm still a strong supporter of BB10 and BB10 devices. They're great. I've stopped giving a damn about BlackBerry Ltd., for the most part, because they've stopped giving a damn about us ages ago. It's just a company, if they stop making interesting technology (Android devices are not "interesting", they're a commodity), I will lament the loss of BlackBerry 10 OS and devices, but not the loss of BlackBerry Ltd.

    That's the fruit of the seeds BlackBerry management is sowing here. And the BlackBerry community at large seems OK with just accepting "They have to do it to stay in business", as if casual disregard for your most loyal customers is a sound business decision. Anyone who ran a SUCCESSFUL business knows you have to treat your customers respectfully, and if BlackBerry isn't willing to put in the extra effort with BB10 via innovative alternative funding approaches, that tells you that they don't manage their company to be successful: they manage it to barely get by, which isn't a recipe for long term success, and criticism in its varied forms (from temper tantrums to public shaming) are all fair game.
    They did sponsor a campaign. They were called Z10, Q10, Q5, Z30, Z3, Passport, Classic, Leap...I'd call that a lot of effort.

    They can't keep going anymore. If you want BlackBerry hardware and software to exist in any form they have to do what it takes to make money in the hardware division. I'd rather have Hub, BlackBerry VKB & PKB, Calendar, Contacts on Android then not having them next year at all because the hardware division shut down.

    Get over this loyalty to you crap. They're running a business, not pandering to our emotions. And yeah, we accept it because it's the only pragmatic move. Do we as fans like it? No. But we're not in denial about BlackBerry's precarious situation.

    You say we accept it, well, I'm still waiting for BlackBerry 10 cry babies to offer a VIABLE alternative to BlackBerry going Android. Staying with BlackBerry 10 isn't viable.

    Posted via CB10
    MO3iusONE likes this.
    10-20-15 09:44 AM
  22. ubizmo's Avatar
    There is a group of BB10 advocates that would pay a premium for a BB10 version of the Slider, if BlackBerry chose to make it.

    There is a group who would put their money where their mouth is via a crowd-funding campaign.

    BlackBerry has to be willing to "sponsor" such a campaign: but BlackBerry has no interest in "working harder" or thinking creatively to support their most loyal customers. BlackBerry is all talk when it comes to being appreciative of loyal customers who sincerely like and advocate for their products and the company.
    The group of BB10 advocates is just too small to matter. That's the reality we have to face. Like you any many others, I like using BB10 a lot. But I also use apps, including Android apps. Most of them work okay but there are signs of deterioration. As I've mentioned many times, Kindle is important to me. As the Kindle app gets upgraded, it's not working as well on my Passport. I don't know why; I just know I'm having to wait longer for it to open, and it crashes more than it used to. Others will have similar stories about other apps.

    The word "deterioration" is a good one to describe the state of the BB10 ecosystem, such as it is. So, as much as I like BB10 as an OS, I personally would not pay a premium to buy another device to witness this deterioration. Unless BlackBerry can turn the situation around and reverse the deterioration, I'm not buying any more BB10 phones. And regrettably, I see roughly zero chance of that reversal happening, or even any indication that BlackBerry, led by Chen, is interested in it.

    The idea of crowd-funding BB10 to keep it going is an interesting one, but I think it would be a massive embarrassment to BlackBerry to get involved in anything like that. It would be perceived as roughly on the same level as holding a bake sale.

    That's the fruit of the seeds BlackBerry management is sowing here. And the BlackBerry community at large seems OK with just accepting "They have to do it to stay in business", as if casual disregard for your most loyal customers is a sound business decision.
    It's just a fact. They have to do it to stay in business -- at least in the handset business. And even that isn't a given.

    I wouldn't call this a case of "casual disregard" of anything. I doubt there's been anything casual about it. The move to Android itself has desperation written all over it, and I'm confident that Chen and his advisors know full well that this move does not sit well with a segment of that loyal base. But, as has been pointed out repeatedly, the damage was done years ago, when BlackBerry failed to pivot when it needed to. Since then, we've seen one desperate measure after another: PlayBook; promising to launch BB10 in autumn, then delaying it by months and still releasing it before it was ready; bizarre advertising and PR decisions, in a desperate attempt to look "hip" (Superbowl, Alicia Keys); soliciting buyers for the company while at the same time trying to launch new products; launching the Z30 in an almost "stealth" manner; and...I'm tired of trying to remember it all. Oh yes, building millions of Z10s on the strange assumption that this new and untested device, on a new, immature, and unknown OS, would sell like hotcakes, and then having to unload them at fire sale prices.

    These were not casual decisions. They were desperate decisions by a company scrambling to stay alive.

    The original "loyal base" was, and still are, the BBOS users who hoped BB10 would offer all the advantages of BBOS they had come to love, in a better, more powerful OS. They didn't deliver, and still haven't, although BB10 is much improved from what it was. If they could have done that, they really might have attracted most of those BBOS users to move to BB10 quickly, providing a nice base for developers to take an interest in. They would have had a shot at it, anyway. That was the time when catering to the loyal base might have made a real difference to BlackBerry's fortunes. Today, not so much.
    KenV54 likes this.
    10-20-15 10:27 AM
  23. KenV54's Avatar
    The group of BB10 advocates is just too small to matter. That's the reality we have to face. Like you any many others, I like using BB10 a lot. But I also use apps, including Android apps. Most of them work okay but there are signs of deterioration. As I've mentioned many times, Kindle is important to me. As the Kindle app gets upgraded, it's not working as well on my Passport. I don't know why; I just know I'm having to wait longer for it to open, and it crashes more than it used to. Others will have similar stories about other apps.

    The word "deterioration" is a good one to describe the state of the BB10 ecosystem, such as it is. The original "loyal base" was, and still are, the BBOS users who hoped BB10 would offer all the advantages of BBOS they had come to love, in a better, more powerful OS. They didn't deliver, and still haven't, although BB10 is much improved from what it was. If they could have done that, they really might have attracted most of those BBOS users to move to BB10 quickly, providing a nice base for developers to take an interest in. They would have had a shot at it, anyway. That was the time when catering to the loyal base might have made a real difference to BlackBerry's fortunes. Today, not so much.
    Sadly, it's all true.

    I don't like the iOS system (I gave my iPad Mini to my daughter when I got my Passport), and the Android system, well, it is boring, generic, plain vanilla, sort of a poor man's version of OS 10, without anything much to recommend it, except when it's the only system that works for certain apps.

    I figure that when my SE Passport becomes obsolete in terms of Android apps, like Kindle, in couple of years, I'll be able to pick up a cheap Priv somewhere, which will give me the basic BB stuff like the Hub, the pkbd, and reasonable Android functionality. Then a couple of years after that, it's anyone's guess.
    10-20-15 10:38 AM
  24. RyanGermann's Avatar
    They did sponsor a campaign. They were called Z10, Q10, Q5, Z30, Z3, Passport, Classic, Leap...I'd call that a lot of effort.
    and many of their loyal customers own MULTIPLE of those devices, and have worked to spread awareness of the devices. Stop making it out like a for profit business that effed up is "doing us a favour" when we're spending our money, often buying devices outright without subsidy, and working hard to find them, and then acting as advocates for them. Spare me that idiocy.

    They can't keep going anymore. If you want BlackBerry hardware and software to exist in any form they have to do what it takes to make money in the hardware division. I'd rather have Hub, BlackBerry VKB & PKB, Calendar, Contacts on Android then not having them next year at all because the hardware division shut down.
    They'll be doing this on Android, iOS, and Windows 10 Mobile. I don't see what your point is, and I don't buy the unsubstantiated "reasons" that BB10 is unsustainable. It hasn't been given a chance for reasons better articulated by Ubizmo. The assumptions that BB management is making the "right" decisions is what's so astounding, given the various high profile failures.

    Is it safe to say there IS a "right decision", or more correctly, that there are many decisions that have to be made in conjunction and most or all of them have to be right in order for BlackBerry to succeed in the long run?

    Treating loyal customers badly is NEVER a right decision. That's my point.

    Get over this loyalty to you crap. They're running a business, not pandering to our emotions. And yeah, we accept it because it's the only pragmatic move. Do we as fans like it? No. But we're not in denial about BlackBerry's precarious situation.
    Oh, I'm over it. I'm over BlackBerry. Just wait 'til it's YOUR turn. If you haven't learned the lesson from the PlayBook and now BB10, you're next in line to be kicked to the curb. When you don't get Android N on your Slider, you'll be back here complaining. Enjoy that.

    You say we accept it, well, I'm still waiting for BlackBerry 10 cry babies to offer a VIABLE alternative to BlackBerry going Android. Staying with BlackBerry 10 isn't viable.
    I'm not reiterating what's already been said repeatedly, and no, I'm sure I don't really care what you think either. Enjoy your hemmerdroids.
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 10-20-15 at 01:07 PM.
    10-20-15 12:37 PM
  25. crackbb10's Avatar
    LMAO.

    I have a Classic and an Adroid 5.0.2. It is not a fast OS.

    Open multiple tabs in your browser. Have fun with that.
    Hey listening to music? Do you mind changing to the next track? Oh, do it without looking. Oh that's right. You have to turn on the screen so you can tap on the next track button.

    Watching a video on your browser? Oh could you quickly read that last email for me please? Great, you can go watch your video in the browser again. Sorry, I forgot to tell you the browser is going to refresh now and it's gonna have to reload the video from the start.

    Hey, mind writing a comment in a forum when using your browser? Okay, I'm gonna send you an email and just quickly read it. Mind just taking a few minutes away from writing that comment to read the email? OH snap sorry don't leave the browser because once you do, it's going to refresh the webpage and everything you wrote will be lost.



    Posted via CB10
    That sounds horrible!
    10-20-15 12:53 PM
144 ... 3456

Similar Threads

  1. Viber on amazon or Google?
    By seeto84-SG in forum BlackBerry Passport
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-13-15, 12:39 AM
  2. Blackberry Z10 4G capabilitie
    By Hanyahmed in forum BlackBerry Z10
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-20-15, 09:29 AM
  3. Should BlackBerry's next aquisition be Silent Circle
    By Aman Darred in forum Armchair CEO
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 10-07-15, 07:50 PM
  4. Why do I have 7 blendhelper.exe processes on my PC?
    By hankvanm in forum General BlackBerry News, Discussion & Rumors
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-04-15, 01:08 PM
  5. 10.3.2.556
    By dayoungtx in forum BlackBerry 10 OS
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 10-04-15, 10:09 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD