-
Better to betray loyal customers than have a bake sale. Not the way I'd run a business, but if BlackBerry management thinks that's going to pay off in the long run, just throw it on the pile of bad business decisions.10-20-15 12:56 PMLike 0 - You're not sure why?
It's because a move like that will cause even more damage to an already battered brand. It will cause share prices to drop even further, by sending the clear signal that BlackBerry has to rely on charity to support BB10.
Kickstarter and similar crowdfunding services are meant to provide a way for new or small businesses to raise capital for new projects. They are not meant for existing multi-billion dollar publicly traded companies to try to prop up failed projects.
Why is there a stock market? It's not just to enable a few traders to get rich. It's to provide a way for businesses to raise capital for projects, by letting others invest in the company. BlackBerry, in its history, as raised an immense amount of money this way -- more than any conceivable crowdfunding initiative could hope to raise. And they have burned through all that money, leaving them where they are now, with the company valued at the equivalent of its cash assets. A lot of people have been burned along the way. Thousands have lost their jobs. Shareholders have lost huge amounts of money. The last seven or so years have been a nightmare for a lot of people connected to BlackBerry.
At least the BB10 users like ourselves have had our BB10 phones, and still have them. They'll work for some time, after which we can all decide what to do next.
When Heins was looking for buyers for BlackBerry, it didn't have a good effect on anything: stock price, morale, or BlackBerry's future plans, such as they were. Do you honestly think that a crowdfunding initiative by disgruntled BB10 enthusiasts would do anything other than to make BlackBerry appear more pathetic than they already do -- and that's not easy.
We haven't been betrayed (well, except for the PlayBook BB10 promise). They offered products for sale and we bought them. We got what we paid for and used it, and are still using it (many of us). They didn't sell us a promise of BB10 in perpetuity. There just weren't enough of us to make it work.
And I'm pretty sure there won't be enough of us going to the bake sale to make that work either.JeepBB likes this.10-20-15 01:24 PMLike 1 - Yeah I am frustrated by the attitudes of many on CrackBerry, so don't take this personally.
And as far as the market reaction is concerned, that's conjecture: the response is just as likely to be "Look, BlackBerry, battered and beleagured, is STILL trying to do whatever they can to support their loyal customers. Isn't that nice to see in this cynical day and age."
I think my totally wild guess of how the market will react to BlackBerry doing a kickstarter campaign is just as legitimate as a negative one.
And think about this: if the Android Slider is supposed to sell more devices than all ACTIVE BlackBerry 10 devices combined, by definition, BlackBerry is working very hard to please people who AREN'T YET their customers, while their ACTUAL customers are marginalized, pushed aside for the "more interesting" person in their line of sight. Why AREN'T you offended?
Why is there a stock market? It's not just to enable a few traders to get rich. It's to provide a way for businesses to raise capital for projects, by letting others invest in the company. BlackBerry, in its history, as raised an immense amount of money this way -- more than any conceivable crowdfunding initiative could hope to raise.
A lot of people have been burned along the way. Thousands have lost their jobs. Shareholders have lost huge amounts of money. The last seven or so years have been a nightmare for a lot of people connected to BlackBerry. At least the BB10 users like ourselves have had our BB10 phones, and still have them. They'll work for some time, after which we can all decide what to do next.
Sure: I guess it depends how you define "betrayal", but when someone invests in a smartphone platform, they do assume some future, growth, new features, etc.... and when a company has been hanging on by its fingernails, whatever revenue it DID have was FROM US: LOYAL FANS.
Should BlackBerry management be grateful to their loyal customers? YES, damn right they should be! Should BlackBerry management demonstrate their gratitude with actions rather than empty words? Yes, damn right they should.
"Empty words" are "Making a go of BlackBerry 10 is Hhhhhaaaaaarrrrd."
Doing right by loyal customers is "we're going to do whatever we can. We need $20 million to port BB10 over to the slider. If BlackBerry enthusiasts really want BB10 on the Slider, we'll do it, but we have to raise the money first, we can't do it unless we're sure there is a market for it. Contribute $10, $20, or $50 per person, we need to get to $20 million. If you contribute $50, you get an engraved backplate."
See, that would not be hard at ALL. Why do people think it would be hard?
When the rest of the world was saying "BlackBerry is dead" we were advocates for the excellent technology and challenging statements about BlackBerry's imminent bankruptcy etc.
Everyone's so willing to give them a complete pass on this, it's baffling to me.
This is why it's harmful to the BlackBerry brand and their future prospects to NOT to go out on a limb (and I don't mean financially, just try the kickstarter thing for example) as a "thank you" to those of US who kept them from COMPLETE collapse over the past few years by buying VERY EXPENSIVE devices and putting our faith in BlackBerry to "do right by us", and (in retrospect) foolishly acting as advocates for the company and technology with friends, family, peers. If you didn't good for you, but those of us who did, well, I think "betrayal" sums it up pretty well.
I get what you're saying. BlackBerry didn't explicitly promise us something and then renege. If someone has an extra-marital affair and they tell their spouse "we never discussed it. I never SAID I wouldn't have an extra-marital affair" I don't expect the response to be "you're right. We never DID actually say 'I will never have an extra-marital affair', so I guess I shouldn't be upset. Sorry."
With devices and device revenue still making up a SUBSTANTIAL part of BlackBerry business, some kind of effort and, yes, HUMILITY on their part towards loyal customers is fitting, and actually NOT doing it sends a very clear and business-averse message: If you invest in BlackBerry products, be prepared for them to be EOL'd long before you're expecting. THAT'S not a good attribute for BlackBerry Ltd. to have, in my opinion. Obviously, not many share that opinion.
I was and am still livid at Thor and his team re: the PlayBook... not that full BB10 wasn't ported, but that they didn't even throw PlayBook users a bone, by investing in browser improvements or whatnot, and making sure that BB10 could "pair" with a PlayBook as well or better than BBOS did.
Did you thought BlackBerry under John Chen was going to be different, or the same? If I thought it was going to be the same, I'd still be where I am now: angry with BlackBerry management, with an excellent Z30 that, despite how good it is, it will never improve further. I admit I've been waiting 2 years for the Slider, but not running Android, running BB10. Oh, what kind of fool... am Iiiiii...
When Heins was looking for buyers for BlackBerry, it didn't have a good effect on anything: stock price, morale, or BlackBerry's future plans, such as they were. Do you honestly think that a crowdfunding initiative by disgruntled BB10 enthusiasts would do anything other than to make BlackBerry appear more pathetic than they already do -- and that's not easy.
For pete's sake, GM was actually KILLING PEOPLE with their apathy and sure, they've lost some favour, but people are still buying GM vehicles, what is this imaginary world you live in where if BlackBerry does a kickstarter campaign, it will drive business away. At this point, it can only IMPROVE it i.e. "BlackBerry bends over backwards for their loyal customers, that's a company I want to do business with." Jeez it's amateur psychology hour all over the place, but go ahead, have an opinion, but stating facts without taking it a step or two further i.e. what will be the result in the MARKET of whatever attitude you are ascribing to "the market"? The chain of reasoning doesn't stop with an opinion. Carry it through to a conclusion.
"Gee, BlackBerry running a kickstarter campaign makes BlackBerry look desperate."
IT SHOULD BE COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT BLACKBERRY IS DESPERATE, EVERYONE KNOWS IT, INVESTORS, COMPETITORS, CUSTOMERS. But being desperate AND treating your customers with excellence is a GOOD thing, not a bad thing. Being desperate TO SATISFY YOUR CUSTOMERS is ALWAYS considered a positive attribute. Go rewatch "It's A Wonderful Life" if you need another example (Bailey Building and Loan).
We haven't been betrayed (well, except for the PlayBook BB10 promise). They offered products for sale and we bought them. We got what we paid for and used it, and are still using it (many of us). They didn't sell us a promise of BB10 in perpetuity. There just weren't enough of us to make it work.
We'll never know.Last edited by RyanGermann; 10-20-15 at 04:08 PM.
acovey likes this.10-20-15 03:34 PMLike 1 - Why bother putting in any OS10 features into the Priv then if they are only courting other users? Perhaps to attract and appease loyal BlackBerry users and give them some features they really like? Otherwise, a non-BB user could care less about the Hub, Protect, etc. because they have never even used it on the first place. So let's not pretend they have completely ignored loyal users.
Posted via CB10acovey likes this.10-20-15 04:49 PMLike 1 - Why bother putting in any OS10 features into the Priv then if they are only courting other users? Perhaps to attract and appease loyal BlackBerry users and give them some features they really like? Otherwise, a non-BB user could care less about the Hub, Protect, etc. because they have never even used it on the first place. So let's not pretend they have completely ignored loyal users.
Posted via CB10
Posted via CB10acovey likes this.10-20-15 06:36 PMLike 1 - Why bother putting in any OS10 features into the Priv then if they are only courting other users? Perhaps to attract and appease loyal BlackBerry users and give them some features they really like? Otherwise, a non-BB user could care less about the Hub, Protect, etc. because they have never even used it on the first place. So let's not pretend they have completely ignored loyal users.
EDIT: here's a CEO that gets it.
http://finance.yahoo.com/video/sales...010803729.htmlLast edited by RyanGermann; 10-20-15 at 08:32 PM.
10-20-15 07:48 PMLike 0 - And think about this: if the Android Slider is supposed to sell more devices than all ACTIVE BlackBerry 10 devices combined, by definition, BlackBerry is working very hard to please people who AREN'T YET their customers, while their ACTUAL customers are marginalized, pushed aside for the "more interesting" person in their line of sight. Why AREN'T you offended?
Sure: I guess it depends how you define "betrayal", but when someone invests in a smartphone platform, they do assume some future, growth, new features, etc.... and when a company has been hanging on by its fingernails, whatever revenue it DID have was FROM US: LOYAL FANS.
But here's the other thing: BlackBerry really did deliver what was, in my opinion, an impressive series of upgrades to the BB10 platform. The difference in quality from 10.0 to 10.3.2 in such a short time is really substantial. I don't know if anyone else has accomplished so much with so little in such a short time.
Instead of a crowdfunding initiative, consider a pledge campaign. All who sign on promise to buy a BB10 Priv within, for the same price, within a month of release. Do you think you could get a few million people to sign on? That might get BlackBerry's attention.10-21-15 11:36 AMLike 0 - I was just about to say this. The money could be wired to a third party lawyer's account. When sufficient funds are reached, money can be wired to BlackBerry. If not reached within a certain agreed upon timeframe, all money is wired back to participants minus fee for the lawyer (a few bucks per participant).10-21-15 01:35 PMLike 0
- I must say however that the Priv's growing on me as it is. I have the Passport for the full BlackBerry 10 experience and the Z30. I don't know whether I would participate in this venture. We're getting a BlackBerry with the one thing that almost everyone wants and we aren't going to get it on BlackBerry 10.10-21-15 01:35 PMLike 0
- I was just about to say this. The money could be wired to a third party lawyer's account. When sufficient funds are reached, money can be wired to BlackBerry. If not reached within a certain agreed upon timeframe, all money is wired back to participants minus fee for the lawyer (a few bucks per participant).
Posted via CB1010-21-15 01:45 PMLike 0 - You guys are getting all worked up prematurely. Let it rest. The phone has not been in the publics hands to be judged.
There are few companies that would have survived 2 years from the mess this company was in.
BlackBerry has not said the BB10 is going to be abandoned. Besides look at all the BB7 users still hanging on.
Earth will not stop spinning if BlackBerry's Priv fails.
Someone kill this negative thread
PIN 2COF829A10-21-15 02:33 PMLike 2 - You guys are getting all worked up prematurely. Let it rest. The phone has not been in the publics hands to be judged.
There are few companies that would have survived 2 years from the mess this company was in.
BlackBerry has not said the BB10 is going to be abandoned. Besides look at all the BB7 users still hanging on.
Earth will not stop spinning if BlackBerry's Priv fails.
Someone kill this negative thread
PIN 2COF829A
Posted via CB10Mr4aces likes this.10-21-15 04:06 PMLike 1 -
Let's see what happens. By March we will know if BlackBerry will be in the device business.
PIN 2COF829A10-21-15 04:30 PMLike 0 -
Everything BlackBerry did Re: BB10 was self serving. Whatever the benefit to BB10 enthusiasts, what they did was to give BB10 that one more chance (supported by a lot of free publicity conducted on the part of BB10 enthusiasts), not as some 'favour'.
Now when a really exciting device with a powerful SoC and high resolution 16:9 screen is FINALLY released... THAT'S when BB10 is deemed 'no longer viable'.
So, now, I'm saying they owe us a favour. Not a costly one, but they have to unclench enough to participate in alternative funding approaches.
A Kickstarter campaign IS exactly that: If the target is reached, buyers pledge to buy what the sponsor is producing: If, as many speculate, there aren't enough people interested, then the target is not reached, funds are not allocated, pledges take their money and go home, end of story. BlackBerry has another data point to support their decision to EOL BB10.
I admit that it will take some publicity and getting the V
BB10 user base fired up... nothing some BBM ads couldn't achieve.
BlackBerry Ltd. has to state a willingness to fulfill if the target is reached, and they have to set the target. Without those things, it can't happen.
Posted via CB10Last edited by RyanGermann; 10-21-15 at 04:56 PM.
10-21-15 04:42 PMLike 0 - Kickstarter is crowd funding.
It's not BlackBerry 's job to keep making, and losing money, on phones for a market that doesn't want them. They have only lost lots of money on BlackBerry 10 devices and they've made probably more of those devices than they should have. They've given it many tries. There is a point where you have to throw in the towel. They are at 0.3% market share and dropping.
But sure, they'll make another BlackBerry 10 phone, you know, to make you happy. The business can go under so long as you're happy.
Facts:
BlackBerry 10 unprofitable on all eight devices made.
BlackBerry 10 on Priv hardware too expensive to make drivers; the company will not see a return on that expenditure.
BlackBerry 10 market share is now at 0.3% and dropping.
Android Market is over 80% now.
Your argument:
"I WANT IT! BlackBerry owes me and will change its mind if we cry and get them to ignore the numbers!"
You can have an opinion, but if you ignore the numbers, your opinion isn't just cute, it's wrong.
Posted via CB1010-21-15 11:52 PMLike 0 -
The Priv is an Android phone because Chen has no reason to think they could sell enough BB10 Privs to make any money.
In putting BB10 on the market, BlackBerry did not enter into some sort of implied covenant to support it beyond the point of profitability.
A Kickstarter campaign IS exactly that: If the target is reached, buyers pledge to buy what the sponsor is producing: If, as many speculate, there aren't enough people interested, then the target is not reached, funds are not allocated, pledges take their money and go home, end of story. BlackBerry has another data point to support their decision to EOL BB10.
BlackBerry doesn't any more data points to support their decision to mothball BB10. Every customer who has moved from BBOS or BB10 to some other platform is a data point; the graph is so dense you can't see the dots anymore.
My point was, if you, or some cabal of BB10 users, want to start a pledge campaign, go for it. If successful, you'd be able to show that BlackBerry was wrong about BB10; that there really are millions of people willing to buy that BB10 Priv. If successful, you might get Chen's attention. If unsuccessful, at least it wouldn't be another black eye to the BlackBerry brand. The whole thing would be dismissed as the last rally of a proud but naive cohort of customers.
I admit that it will take some publicity and getting the V
BB10 user base fired up... nothing some BBM ads couldn't achieve.
BlackBerry Ltd. has to state a willingness to fulfill if the target is reached, and they have to set the target. Without those things, it can't happen.
The current narrative, which I believe is true, is that those millions of people just aren't there. That's clearly what Chen believes as well. You're convinced he's wrong, so go find them.MO3iusONE likes this.10-22-15 07:52 AMLike 1 - No, it's worse than that. In the process, BlackBerry damages its brand beyond its already sorry state, by begging for buyers and failing to get them. Granted, you and I have different ideas about how this move would affect the public perception of BlackBerry. I can't prove my version, but it's what makes sense to me.10-22-15 08:34 AMLike 0
- My major concern MS Outlook sync calendar contacts notes tasks. Nowhere has this been discussed yet!?
Bblink perhaps updated or an entirely new bblink,blend android version. The biggest deal breaker for me android devices don't play well ever with MS Outlook sync and has always been a hair ripping stressout!
вιaсĸвεггч� Passport SQW100-1 / 10.3.2.2639 Rogers Wireless Posted via CB 10-23-15 04:03 AMLike 0
- Forum
- Android BlackBerry Phones & OS
- BlackBerry Priv
BlackBerry 10 Features on Priv
Similar Threads
-
Viber on amazon or Google?
By seeto84-SG in forum BlackBerry PassportReplies: 11Last Post: 11-13-15, 12:39 AM -
Blackberry Z10 4G capabilitie
By Hanyahmed in forum BlackBerry Z10Replies: 6Last Post: 10-20-15, 09:29 AM -
Should BlackBerry's next aquisition be Silent Circle
By Aman Darred in forum Armchair CEOReplies: 9Last Post: 10-07-15, 07:50 PM -
Why do I have 7 blendhelper.exe processes on my PC?
By hankvanm in forum General BlackBerry News, Discussion & RumorsReplies: 2Last Post: 10-04-15, 01:08 PM -
10.3.2.556
By dayoungtx in forum BlackBerry 10 OSReplies: 3Last Post: 10-04-15, 10:09 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD