[guygardner73]

Rumours...rumours take this as grain of salt...

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C00164A6D --> the source channel

Load of Bollocks.

PassportSQW100-1/10.3.1.2576 O2 UK

[anischab]

I am for BlackBerry S10
(S for Slider) and 10 like Q10 Z10 for the OS

[tickerguy]

Didn't Chen say, or suggest, that it was too expensive to have drivers made for BB10 for the new hardware?

Does this rumour suggest the whole expensive-drivers thing was a mislead, or maybe BlackBerry has changed their minds about investing in drivers?

Drivers are not expensive folks.

I've written them for an Android port (to the Moto Triumph which shipped with a ridiculously poor base version; I ported a later version of Android to it myself, single-handed.)

It took me a few weeks in my spare time as a single individual to get everything ironed out and I had no hardware documentation and thus had to figure most of it out the hard way.

Don't believe for a second it's hard because it's not.

[evodevo69]

I'm good with android by BlackBerry if it can give us the same productivity experience as bb10.

I don't need the animations or peek and flow, although these will be sorely missed.

Posted via CB10

[Q10Bold]

Yes. It can be even a Passport spec one!!!
Or maybe a Q10 with passport specs and 4row touch pkb. Yeahhhhhhh

Posted via PP

[Rustybronco]

Some may go to the Priv but others will not. I am certain BlackBerry thought of all this and they must realize that by not offering a BB10 Priv, or a Passport 2, or an updated Classic in the least, is surely going to hurt sales.

There is another possibility. By creating an android BlackBerry and not confirming further development of 10.3.XX, you have sparked the rumor mill into thinking (rightly so) OS10 is on a path to being EOL'd which has to have a negative effect on sales. Hinting there may be a glimmer of hope for OS10 through various sources, makes people believe the devices will still be supported with new updates. You don't actually need to provide the update, just hint that it will be forth coming.

[leglace1]

Here is a novel idea. Chen said that consumers were not his priority for BB10 and hardware.

Android on the other hand is.

Now he can use BB10 for high end security support his base enterprise and government customers. This is where Blackberry gets its street rep. Then he can say that BB10 devices on the other hand are as good or better than Blackphone 2.

Enterprise customers are people too and they do need devices. No reason not to offer the Venice considering all the money they already put into the hardware. Just change the software and call it Venice. We all don't need Priv to be the name because it's no better than bb10 devices as far as privacy is concerned.

Posted via manly Passport

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

How long did it take for some to give up on BB10 coming to the PlayBook.... 12 months after Thor told us, 18 months. Of course then they went and released the Z3 with only 1.5GB of Ram and some got their hopes up again.


But you never know.... I understand that LG is bringing webOS back to mobile







(or at least to smartwatches)

[CrackberryQ]

My humble opinion is that a BB10 priv will be launched mid 2016, the hardware is there already so no hardware development cost, the driver prices would drop by then as the next versions of these chips will start to emerge, and BB10 requires less horse power to run, so won't be a shock to get last year's internals in the latest BB10 model, all security certifications are in place...

Voila

You get the next BB10 devices for enterprises that require em at minimal development cost.

This pattern will continue till android is secure enough, or Google just buys out BlackBerry and does magic with hypervisor looooool!

Posted via CB10

[Bbnivende]

Here is a novel idea. Chen said that consumers were not his priority for BB10 and hardware.

Android on the other hand is.

Now he can use BB10 for high end security support his base enterprise and government customers. This is where Blackberry gets its street rep. Then he can say that BB10 devices on the other hand are as good or better than Blackphone 2.

Enterprise customers are people too and they do need devices. No reason not to offer the Venice considering all the money they already put into the hardware. Just change the software and call it Venice. We all don't need Priv to be the name because it's no better than bb10 devices as far as privacy is concerned.

Posted via manly Passport

So what percentage of BB10 sales are to Enterprise? I think it us much smaller than you think it is. If you live in Ontario Canada then you have an exaggerated impression of the popularity of BB10 devices for business and government in the USA and in europe.

Posted via CB10

[kvndoom]

A nice workaround for that is to have the "immortal" Snapdragon S4 under its hood. They probably still have boatloads of it lying around.

*A3-A20

I would pee my pants laughing if a BB10 slider got released and it had an S4!!!

[kvndoom]

Drivers are not expensive folks.

I've written them for an Android port (to the Moto Triumph which shipped with a ridiculously poor base version; I ported a later version of Android to it myself, single-handed.)

It took me a few weeks in my spare time as a single individual to get everything ironed out and I had no hardware documentation and thus had to figure most of it out the hard way.

Don't believe for a second it's hard because it's not.

Why didn't you volunteer your time to Blackberry then? You could do in a few weekends for free what their software engineers would have taken years of manhours to accomplish!

[RyanGermann]

Can someone supply a plausible reason why Chen would announce the Slider and that it will be running Android and NOT ALSO announce that there will be a BB10 version for the BB10 diehards?

That is to say, can you provide a PLAUSIBLE reason.

Examples of IMPLAUSIBLE reasons for NOT announcing a BB10 variant if there was going to be one.

1) "BB switching totally to Android will improve the stock price"... only to have it drop when they announce the BB10 version later? Don't executives of public companies go to jail for that kind of stuff?
2) "They're doing the BB10 version because key customers have asked for it, but have also asked for BlackBerry to keep it secret / exclusive"... are they going to commit to buying enough devices to pay the costs to do the BB10 drivers which apparently is upwards of 30 million dollars which would mean $200 profit on 150,000 devices just to break EVEN?

I can't think of any more implausible reasons, but I'm sure there will be a few more (presented as plausible but aren't).

This is a total BS circular rumour: that is, some prankster says "There will be a BB10 version" then CrackBerry discussion forums latch onto it, then this the Russians get it from CrackBerry and repeat it, then CrackBerry gets it from the Russian site. Jebus.

I wish it wasn't a rumour: I wish BlackBerry would get the BB10 drivers for the Slider chipset done, then if the Android Slider is a success, spurring BB to produce other hardened BlackBerry powered by Android devices based on the same SoC (Passport-style, full touch, even the Classic!), and make the BB10 versions of those devices in parallel. That's the business model I think would work really well for BlackBerry and as the necessity for apps fades (as browser portals become more capable: like a standardized API for Web browsers to access local hardware like the Camera in the same manner that they access the location sensors etc.) then "apps" like Instagram can really just run in the Browser, and the app gap DOES close, eventually.

[leglace1]

So what percentage of BB10 sales are to Enterprise? I think it us much smaller than you think it is. If you live in Ontario Canada then you have an exaggerated impression of the popularity of BB10 devices for business and government in the USA and in europe.

Posted via CB10

It's not about the number of devices they sell. It's the software. They need to keep the users happy as well. They could get sick of old hardware and choose to dump BlackBerry for iOS enterprise. Enterprise is their main revenue.

Posted via Manly Passport

[6stringriffs]

I'm calling it right now: there's a better chance of the Chicago Cubs winning the World Series this year than BlackBerry releasing a Slider running on BB10.

[Jakob Greve]

Why didn't you volunteer your time to Blackberry then? You could do in a few weekends for free what their software engineers would have taken years of manhours to accomplish!

Did he say he could root the device. Android is pretty open if you didn't get the memo.

[Bbnivende]

It's not about the number of devices they sell. It's the software. They need to keep the users happy as well. They could get sick of old hardware and choose to dump BlackBerry for iOS enterprise. Enterprise is their main revenue.

Posted via Manly Passport

Except that Chen says that he is not prepared to lose money on phones and BB10 is a money loser and end to end solutions are a bit of a myth.

Posted via CB10

[BB-JAM215]

Except that Chen says that he is not prepared to lose money on phones and BB10 is a money loser and end to end solutions are a bit of a myth.

End to end solutions are the main business BlackBerry is focused on as a software and services company. That's what BES is all about, not to mention BlackBerry's recent acquisition of Good Technologies.

[Bbnivende]

End to end solutions are the main business BlackBerry is focused on as a software and services company. That's what BES is all about, not to mention BlackBerry's recent acquisition of Good Technologies.

Their main goal is to provide MDM for Apple and Android phones since that is what Enterprise uses. Only a small number of BlackBerry users need end to end. In the near future there will be no BB10 devices for BlackBerry to offer in support of the end to end. Their new goal for handsets will be to make BlackBerry/Android as secure as possible.

Let us not forget that many business and govt bodies have their own apps and any new BB10 devices will not be able to run their own apps.

I think their is a big gap between what Chen says is his vision for BlackBerry handsets and the reality of the markets for both Enterprise and consumers today.


Part of the problem for BlackBerry is that they have continued to hitch their horse to PKB when Enterprise like consumers have moved on to all touch phones.

Posted via CB10

[crucial bbq]

How long did it take for some to give up on BB10 coming to the PlayBook.... 12 months after Thor told us, 18 months. Of course then they went and released the Z3 with only 1.5GB of Ram and some got their hopes up again.


But you never know.... I understand that LG is bringing webOS back to mobile







(or at least to smartwatches)

webOS never went away. LG just moved it to the smart TVs.

My humble opinion is that a BB10 priv will be launched mid 2016, the hardware is there already so no hardware development cost, the driver prices would drop by then as the next versions of these chips will start to emerge, and BB10 requires less horse power to run, so won't be a shock to get last year's internals in the latest BB10 model, all security certifications are in place...

Not saying no here as this is certainly a possibility. However, I think initially we will see something resembling the early days of Android apps running on BB10. It was something BlackBerry knew about but never took an official stance pro or con. Then with 10.2.XXXX they finally made what we have known all along official: ART. I am thinking the first batches of BB10 Privs are simply going to be Priv owners who load BB10 themselves. While BlackBerry could surely do it I do not see why they would go to any length to prevent this. Of course this would take cough cough drivers cough to work but I cannot foresee any reason why BB10 would not install on a Priv at this point in time unless that PIN embedded into the chipset prevents it. Then again this PIN may also alert BlackBerry to the fact that BB10 is loaded and running, or perhaps only alert them that an attempt was made otherwise. This would give BlackBerry some solid numbers and perhaps help Chen decide what to do next.

Can someone supply a plausible reason why Chen would announce the Slider and that it will be running Android and NOT ALSO announce that there will be a BB10 version for the BB10 diehards?

Not that long ago Chen quipped that BlackBerry users were the most loyal. So loyal in fact that they typically use the same device for 3, 4, 5 years before upgrading. So there's another plausible reason.

Personally I think Google is helping BlackBerry out financially with the Priv in exchange for BlackBerry using the Priv to promote and prove secured Android as possible both in and out of enterprise. I mean, perhaps there is more to it but the partnership between BlackBerry and Google began with BlackBerry agreeing to support Android for Work on BES12. Who knows where it went from there but it is plausible that BlackBerry also agreed to do an Android phone as part of the parcel proving BES12 and Android/AfW can work well together after all.

[Bbnivende]

Chen wants to sell as many Android PRIV's as possible to show that BlackBerry can be a handset maker past 2016. He already knows that BB10 can not support a going concern handset maker.


Secondly, a PRIV running BB10 without runtime would not sell in sufficient numbers to support the effort. If BlackBerry is going to be a OHA member they have to live with in those rules for any devices manufactured once the PRIV comes out.

Posted via CB10

[BlackberryFan777]

Stupid STUPID decision if true. This sends confusing messages to both consumers and investors. I hardly think the remaining BB10 diehards and the new Android users are sufficient to support development of both, meaning they still need at least 10M unit sales. As-is it sounds completely impossible.

Posted via CB10

I'm not so sure. If rumors are true, the Priv is pretty much stock Android with a secure kernel maintained and developed by a foundation. There are some custom apps that the Priv runs, but those may be available for sale or subscription to all Android users via the BlackBerry Experience package regardless of whether they buy a Priv. In other words, maybe, the Android development effort is mainly about the app package. The rumors of something fancy like a QNX kernel or hypervisor or something appear to have been untrue.

It is hard to believe that BlackBerry can continue to afford developing BB10 with software failing to perform up to its expectations. BlackBerry could easily sell 10 million phones a year. Thor was on track to get there. But, Chen has simply underinvested in the device division to a point where it's now hard to believe. The QNX kernel guy now leads Apple's Core OS project, the TAT guys are gone, Alex Saunders is selling Windows 10, etc., etc. That was expensive talent and reassembling a team would cost even more today than it cost Thor. Would it cost what the ridiculous Good deal cost? No, not even close? But, Chen has given up huge potential by give up BlackBerry's role as a mobile platform. There are such huge barriers to entry and the potential for it assisting in other sales like (BES) or creating future revenue streams like licensing or app sales are so significant, the Board may have second thoughts and consider firing John Chen. Ultimately, he has failed and that is now *very* obvious. BlackBerry's revenue is less than half what it was under Thor. The worst position in mobile is to be a device manufacturer without a platform and that's where the move to Andriod puts BlackBerry. Don't get me wrong, I think BlackBerry users will love the Priv, but since revenue from mobile platform sources will now be gone, I'd say he needs to sell 20 million to be successful. And, he still won't have a platform of his own without BB10. And, it's pretty clear to me that John Chen and his decision to completely withdraw from advertising and selling the devices to consumers, cutting the developer relations team, and ceasing to develop the OS in any meaningful way are the reasons why the devices aren't selling. The guy did everything he could to sabotage sales, including recently fail to clarify whether there would be any future BB10 devices. Who would buy a BB10 device right now? The board could decide to fire Chen and reboot the effort. It looks like investment in hardware is needed because Software, while profitable, simply is not growing fast enough. Chen has failed and is kind of fumbling joke anyway.

[RyanGermann]

Not that long ago Chen quipped that BlackBerry users were the most loyal. So loyal in fact that they typically use the same device for 3, 4, 5 years before upgrading. So there's another plausible reason.

Corporate users, possibly... but BBOS users didn't get a lot of differentiation from one device to the next at the bitter end: BBOS 5 was a significant upgrade from 4, and BBOS 6 was a significant upgrade from 5, and was coincidentally released around the time that BB user base peaked... but BBOS 7 was not much more than a non-backward-compatible performance upgrade from 6, and that's when BBOS was already starting its rapid decline as BB fans waited for BB10, which turned out to be so unlike BBOS as to be offputting to BBOS users for the most part. If BB10 is as it is, but had a UX that was basically identical in function to BBOS 7 devices, but with a vastly superior kernel and Web browser and app development platform, uptake of BB10 among BBOS users might have been significantly higher... but no time machine, no way to know.

As far as BB10 goes, BB10 users weren't given a CHANCE to upgrade, unless you count the Z30 that came out 8 months after the Z10 as an "upgrade". So, I'm gonna have to gong that one as "implausible".

BB10 users are more demanding than BBOS users, and the vast majority of the peak 80 million BBOS users aren't even BlackBerry customers any more. If that was Chen's assessment of BlackBerry users (that we don't upgrade for 5 years) then it is off base, because he's only got bad data to work with.

[Bbnivende]

Hard to say. It is very possible that Chen thought he could sell enough phones to Enterprise to make a profit. He was wrong. Enterprise want apps too and they do not want PKB's as a general rule. I am not sure why he thought differently. Perhaps he knew but he felt that he needed to stall the move to Android as long as possible. Perhaps he needed to present a good face knowing full well that he would phase out BB10 in 2016.

Posted via CB10

[Elephant_Canyon]

I'm calling it right now: there's a better chance of the Chicago Cubs winning the World Series this year than BlackBerry releasing a Slider running on BB10.

Against Miami?!