1. Slash82's Avatar
    Hi friends!

    I got some questions considering the upcoming BlackBerry Priv.
    Maybe some of you know answers?

    BlackBerry says that they are able to deliver the first "secure" Android device.
    But what does this really mean?

    Does Android (Google) still snoop on you? Or is it blocked?
    As far as I know does Google and the Google store track your location a couple of times a day to "improve their services".
    Android also tracks of other things.

    And what about apps like Facebook or WhatsApp?
    Do they still have access to all the areas a "normal" Android device has?
    I mean on Android and even iOS they have access to your e-mails etc.

    How does DTek act here?
    Is it just there and will tell you: "Alert: WhatsApp has access to your e-mails"?

    Even if the device is encrypted for hackers or thieves - it wouldn't be secure at all.

    Thanks for all your replies!
    11-03-15 12:12 PM
  2. cgk's Avatar
    Bottom line - absolutely nobody here - me included - knows now secure Priv is until a serious number of users have it and people start to try and exploit it.

    As for the Google stuff - it will collect as much or as little information as any android phone depending on how you set it up.

    From a user perspective this is an entirely standard android phone with added security to stop *unauthorized* people - that isnt King Google who wouldn't never sign off on a phone that doesn't allow for data mining of users.

    That doesn't mean that if you are savvy you cannot limit that data mining via settings, the apps and accounts you use but no BBRY are offering nothing different on that front.
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and Slash82 like this.
    11-03-15 12:23 PM
  3. BB-JAM215's Avatar
    I think you're mean Privacy when you say Security.
    cgk and Slash82 like this.
    11-03-15 12:26 PM
  4. Steve Rizla's Avatar
    It sounds like you are confusing security with privacy. They can overlap but, they are not the same.

    It is the most secure android in the sense that they are the OEM that has gone the furthest in closing up some of the security holes in Android.

    The privacy protection comes in the form of the DTEK application warning you if one of your apps is asking for more permissions that it needs. People still have to understand that it can go only so far to protect your privacy. If you install WhatsApp or some other app that seems like it needs more than necessary, and DTEK warns you, but you tell DTEK to 'F off' and choose ignore the warnings. BlackBerry can't stop you from doing something stupid. They can only warn you of your choices.

    If you have passwords stored in clear text in a text file and you give an application permission to access your storage, you have given them permission to take your file and passwords. All that needs to happen at that point is for someone to use a vulnerability in WhatsApp and use those permissions to take your file. The OS is still 'secure' but you violated your own privacy and security with your decisions.
    progguy and cgk like this.
    11-03-15 12:32 PM
  5. cgk's Avatar

    It is the most secure android in the sense that they are the OEM that has gone the furthest in closing up some of the security holes in Android.
    Even Chen is wary about making that claim:

    Chen: We're probably the same level as Samsung's Knox. The only other commercial phone that can say they have the same or better than us is maybe the BlackPhone.
    Which is why they are very careful to talk privacy not security.
    11-03-15 01:00 PM
  6. Steve Rizla's Avatar
    Even Chen is wary about making that claim:



    Which is why they are very careful to talk privacy not security.
    Yes, this is true. I don't think anyone should claim that they are the most secure or that they can't be hacked. All it takes is one breach to do the damage.
    cgk likes this.
    11-03-15 01:24 PM
  7. cgk's Avatar
    Yes, this is true. I don't think anyone should claim that they are the most secure or that they can't be hacked. All it takes is one breach to do the damage.
    It's the sensible strategy - this is a new area for them where they don't control the OS and they are the only android who have a serious security profile.

    Sony gets hacked - shrug

    Bbry gets hacked - big news
    11-03-15 01:31 PM
  8. Slash82's Avatar
    Thanks for all your replies!

    I'm kinda disappointed with this solution - but that's just my personal opinion.
    I hoped that this device would be "really" different.
    Android/Google still snoops, apps still "steal" privat data - now only just with a warning.

    Sure security and privacy are different things - what I meant was "to be secure that my private data stays private".
    It does not really make a difference to have a "secure phone (from hackers)" - when all my private informations are uploaded on Google severs.
    And it's not a matter of hiding something - it's more a matter of: "Why should Google know when I go to sleep" or "how I hold my phone".
    If you have something "criminal" in mind the authorities have their ways to get the information they want - but I don't want a company to make money of sensitive data.
    That's what I love about BBOS or BB10 - I'm free to chose what I wanna share with apps or what they have access to.
    I really hoped that a "BlackBerry Android device" would work the same and DTek would be able to do more than just warn you.
    11-03-15 01:38 PM
  9. cgk's Avatar
    Android/Google still snoops, apps still "steal" privat data - now only just with a warning.
    I could be wrong but I'd be surprised if it warns you about what data google is collecting about you beyond the standard stuff but Privberry or someone holding a Priv might be able to tell us something different...
    11-03-15 01:42 PM
  10. Steve Rizla's Avatar
    Thanks for all your replies!

    I'm kinda disappointed with this solution - but that's just my personal opinion.
    I hoped that this device would be "really" different.
    Android/Google still snoops, apps still "steal" privat data - now only just with a warning.

    Sure security and privacy are different things - what I meant was "to be secure that my private data stays private".
    It does not really make a difference to have a "secure phone (from hackers)" - when all my private informations are uploaded on Google severs.
    And it's not a matter of hiding something - it's more a matter of: "Why should Google know when I go to sleep" or "how I hold my phone".
    If you have something "criminal" in mind the authorities have their ways to get the information they want - but I don't want a company to make money of sensitive data.
    That's what I love about BBOS or BB10 - I'm free to chose what I wanna share with apps or what they have access to.
    I really hoped that a "BlackBerry Android device" would work the same and DTek would be able to do more than just warn you.
    Don't take what I said about how DTEK works as gospel. i could be wrong. Wait for BlackBerry to explain it on the 6th.

    Google gets to know where you sleep and know how you hold your phone when you get an Android device and agree to the terms of service for the Google Apps. There's nothing stopping you from carrying a flip phone and an encrypted hard drive instead of keeping your private information on an Android device.
    11-03-15 01:52 PM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Thanks for all your replies!

    I'm kinda disappointed with this solution - but that's just my personal opinion.
    I hoped that this device would be "really" different.
    Android/Google still snoops, apps still "steal" privat data - now only just with a warning.

    Sure security and privacy are different things - what I meant was "to be secure that my private data stays private".
    It does not really make a difference to have a "secure phone (from hackers)" - when all my private informations are uploaded on Google severs.
    And it's not a matter of hiding something - it's more a matter of: "Why should Google know when I go to sleep" or "how I hold my phone".
    If you have something "criminal" in mind the authorities have their ways to get the information they want - but I don't want a company to make money of sensitive data.
    That's what I love about BBOS or BB10 - I'm free to chose what I wanna share with apps or what they have access to.
    I really hoped that a "BlackBerry Android device" would work the same and DTek would be able to do more than just warn you.
    It's as different as Google will allow an OEM to make it and still meet their guidelines. Which are there to keep the Android Platform from fracturing more than it has.

    But then how "secure" was BB10 without BES and a knowledgeable IT guy to lock it down.....?

    One thing I will say... what the offer us right now, most likely isn't an end to what they want to do..... it just as much as they could get done in the amount of time they had. Much like BB10 at launch, I think BlackBerry has more they can do to "secure" Android.
    11-03-15 02:01 PM
  12. Soulstream's Avatar
    Thanks for all your replies!

    I'm kinda disappointed with this solution - but that's just my personal opinion.
    I hoped that this device would be "really" different.
    Android/Google still snoops, apps still "steal" privat data - now only just with a warning.

    Sure security and privacy are different things - what I meant was "to be secure that my private data stays private".
    It does not really make a difference to have a "secure phone (from hackers)" - when all my private informations are uploaded on Google severs.
    And it's not a matter of hiding something - it's more a matter of: "Why should Google know when I go to sleep" or "how I hold my phone".
    If you have something "criminal" in mind the authorities have their ways to get the information they want - but I don't want a company to make money of sensitive data.
    That's what I love about BBOS or BB10 - I'm free to chose what I wanna share with apps or what they have access to.
    I really hoped that a "BlackBerry Android device" would work the same and DTek would be able to do more than just warn you.
    I said this before and I will say it again. When the phone receives Android 6.0, you will be able to set app permissions, just as you would on a BB10. When that happens, 3rd party apps will "steal" as much data on your Android phone as they would on a BB10 device.

    About google snooping on you, you can just use a new dummy google account and not use any of their apps. You can use another browser, mail app, contacts app, calendar etc. Also a location tracking is disabled by default in Android. You are not forced to use any google service and this way Google won't have any relevant data on you.
    maslows likes this.
    11-03-15 02:16 PM
  13. cgk's Avatar
    It's as different as Google will allow an OEM to make it and still meet their guidelines. Which are there to keep the Android Platform from fracturing more than it has..
    I would think a meeting where BBRY asked if they could block Google's standard data-mining out of the box likely went something like this:

    BB Priv is secure, but..?-picture2.png
    Dunt Dunt Dunt and Carbonman1 like this.
    11-03-15 02:34 PM
  14. tickerguy's Avatar
    I don't get some people.

    You want things to be "free." There is no such thing as free.

    There are obvious costs and hidden costs. Google is not a charity, they're a business. A business that happens to make its money by collecting and selling data, including data on you.

    "Free" Google Maps? No, not really free. You "pay" in the form of your location data.

    "Free" Facebook? No, not really free. You "pay" in the form of your user and location data.

    And, I might add, whatever else they can figure out from your usage patterns which is shockingly complete.

    20+ years ago with the data that was collected by marketing organizations then I was able to across a large population sample (1,000 people or more) get you a number of statistics with 95% confidence levels and more than a few with 99% ones. Some of them would literally curl your hair. I could tell if you were religious, if you smoked, nail your income level within 10% or so and quite a bit more. If you had anything in your profile of how you lived that stood out -- like you were gay or having an affair -- there was a decent shot I could tell that too. The odds of me being able to link all of that to you personally, despite the data being allegedly "anonymous" were in the majority.

    This was before everyone carried a tracking device that is always on with them everywhere they go! Today I'm willing to bet that I can get into the statistical confidence arena (that is, 95% or better) on exactly who you are in terms of that data being able to be associated with you as a person​ as opposed to some random identifier.

    Stop with the mythical unicorn crap. IF you're going to demand these "free" things then that is the price.

    Either stop using them or shut up.
    Superdupont 2_0 likes this.
    11-03-15 02:35 PM
  15. Carbonman1's Avatar
    I don't get some people.

    You want things to be "free." There is no such thing as free.

    There are obvious costs and hidden costs. Google is not a charity, they're a business. A business that happens to make its money by collecting and selling data, including data on you.

    "Free" Google Maps? No, not really free. You "pay" in the form of your location data.

    "Free" Facebook? No, not really free. You "pay" in the form of your user and location data.

    And, I might add, whatever else they can figure out from your usage patterns which is shockingly complete.

    20+ years ago with the data that was collected by marketing organizations then I was able to across a large population sample (1,000 people or more) get you a number of statistics with 95% confidence levels and more than a few with 99% ones. Some of them would literally curl your hair. I could tell if you were religious, if you smoked, nail your income level within 10% or so and quite a bit more. If you had anything in your profile of how you lived that stood out -- like you were gay or having an affair -- there was a decent shot I could tell that too. The odds of me being able to link all of that to you personally, despite the data being allegedly "anonymous" were in the majority.

    This was before everyone carried a tracking device that is always on with them everywhere they go! Today I'm willing to bet that I can get into the statistical confidence arena (that is, 95% or better) on exactly who you are in terms of that data being able to be associated with you as a person​ as opposed to some random identifier.

    Stop with the mythical unicorn crap. IF you're going to demand these "free" things then that is the price.

    Either stop using them or shut up.
    There's an excellent paper on data mining that will make you want to give up on controlling your metadata; it's called "The Other Ride of Paul Revere: The Brokerage Role In The Making Of The American Revolution". It shows what can be done with information collected at the most basic level. The NSA can store 5 years of the Worlds' internet traffic (1 zettbyte/year) in their new Utah facility. And people are worried about Google apps...
    11-03-15 03:38 PM

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