09-30-15 10:21 AM
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  1. KAM1138's Avatar
    Let's assume that things are as you say, that those iPhones users only bought them because of ads or because their friends/family members had them. Did they keep them for the same reasons? You see, it's one thing to be drawn to a product because of marketing or peer influence, but it's another thing entirely to KEEP something because of those things.

    KAM speaks of the brand loyalty that Apple enjoys. Do you think that was built by marketing or peer influence? Good marketing can only take you so far. Good marketing has to be followed up with a good product. A company can have the splashiest marketing in the history of mankind and have millions of people buy what they're selling, but if those millions of people are dissatisfied with that product, not only would they have millions of products being returned, but they'd have millions of consumers who will most likely never buy another product from that company AND that will tell everyone they know about their bad experience. If iPhones didn't function well or fill the needs of consumers, they wouldn't have the user base, or the high customer satisfaction scores they do. As for peer influence, do you think iPhone users recommend them because they want to add more "sheep" to the flock? They do so because of a good experience. There's no way in hell that I would lay down hundreds of dollars for something and NOT return it if it didn't do what I needed it to do, or work the way I want it to. The iPhone as a product line has a customer base of over half a billion people. Are you suggesting that most, or all of this user base is made up of "iSheep?" Dismissing the iPhone's success as the result of a herd mentality or marketing has become the go-to excuse for BB fans and it's short-sighted in the extreme. However you dismiss the iPhone's success, Apple is doing something right. BlackBerry could've learned from the success of the iPhone, and had opportunities to do so, but hey spent the last eight years dismissing it as a toy. No wonder they're in the state they're in.
    I don't think that iphone/Apple's fans are solely due to marketing. They DO have a serviceable device for sure--and depending on what time you compare it to its competition, it certainly had some features that would compare favorably.
    Peer influence is very likely part of it as well--maybe a significant part of it.

    Here's where I disagree--to KEEP people, you don't need to be the best, you just need to give people what they expect in a reasonable way.
    Brand loyalty is rather powerful, and without a significant reason to bump people out of the comfort zone, inertia will be pretty effective at retaining them.

    iPhone was at one time pretty innovative and revolutionary, and it did a great job of grabbing customers--for good reason.

    But I have no doubt that a significant portion of their customer retention and brand loyalty is because of inertia--often rabidly expressed. They HAVEN'T failed to provide modest updates (although I'd say JUST modest), and people have invested a lot into apps and such. Its relatively easy to stay in your comfort zone, so I am not sure why anyone is surprised by people (such as myself) stating this as real reasons.

    Apple DID and DOES do something right--that is, they continue to provide the right amount of "progress" to keep people buying phones that are using a very basic, and easy to use operating system, and that provides what they've come to expect.

    If one were to chart the innovation of the iPhone it would be a huge spike followed by a very shallow sloped line. That is apparently enough to keep their customers happy, and NOT looking elsewhere.

    Keep a sheep fed, watered, and a warm place to sleep, and they've got no motivation to look elsewhere. Life is good for the iphone user, so why change? Why even THINK about changing?

    KAM
    09-24-15 05:21 PM
  2. The Big Picture's Avatar
    @Kam,

    Samsung and Apple spend over a $1 billion dollars on smartphone advertising each, every single year.

    BlackBerry tried everything they could to get the developers on board (prior to, during, and immediately after BB10 launch), but they refused.

    Netflix had a working app that they could have ported to BlackBerry World immediately, in under 5 minutes, at no cost. They refused because they saw no value in supporting a third ecosystem that was already miles behind the other two. Same for Instagram, same for Snapchat. The list goes on. BlackBerry offered cash incentives, and they offered to provide app support. Still nothing.

    Again, I believe it was over before it even started.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Wow THIS!

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-15 06:37 PM
  3. yhamaie's Avatar
    About five months ago . . .

    http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/27/how-b...art-again.html

    "I'm not at liberty to tell you what we're doing beyond the Amazon apps, but we're working hard at it something [is] brewing," Chen said in an interview with CNBC's "Fast Money Halftime Report.

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-15 06:59 PM
  4. evodevo69's Avatar
    I don't think that iphone/Apple's fans are solely due to marketing. They DO have a serviceable device for sure--and depending on what time you compare it to its competition, it certainly had some features that would compare favorably.
    Peer influence is very likely part of it as well--maybe a significant part of it.

    Here's where I disagree--to KEEP people, you don't need to be the best, you just need to give people what they expect in a reasonable way.
    Brand loyalty is rather powerful, and without a significant reason to bump people out of the comfort zone, inertia will be pretty effective at retaining them.

    iPhone was at one time pretty innovative and revolutionary, and it did a great job of grabbing customers--for good reason.

    But I have no doubt that a significant portion of their customer retention and brand loyalty is because of inertia--often rabidly expressed. They HAVEN'T failed to provide modest updates (although I'd say JUST modest), and people have invested a lot into apps and such. Its relatively easy to stay in your comfort zone, so I am not sure why anyone is surprised by people (such as myself) stating this as real reasons.

    Apple DID and DOES do something right--that is, they continue to provide the right amount of "progress" to keep people buying phones that are using a very basic, and easy to use operating system, and that provides what they've come to expect.

    If one were to chart the innovation of the iPhone it would be a huge spike followed by a very shallow sloped line. That is apparently enough to keep their customers happy, and NOT looking elsewhere.

    Keep a sheep fed, watered, and a warm place to sleep, and they've got no motivation to look elsewhere. Life is good for the iphone user, so why change? Why even THINK about changing?

    KAM
    BlackBerry did exactly that and failed - it's time for a change.

    Posted via CB10
    dusanvn likes this.
    09-24-15 08:03 PM
  5. KAM1138's Avatar
    BlackBerry did exactly that and failed - it's time for a change.

    Posted via CB10
    Blackberry did exactly what?

    KAM

    Posted via CB10
    09-24-15 08:28 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...erating-system

    More data points for this discussion.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Last edited by conite; 09-24-15 at 08:56 PM.
    09-24-15 08:34 PM
  7. KAM1138's Avatar
    Hello,

    Yes and ignoring the variety of other failings of the company.

    Narrow vision.

    However, there is something I'd like to highlight (from the Article)
    "While BB10, in our opinion, is technologically superior to many mobile platforms, it has failed to generate the recovery BlackBerry had hoped for and continues to be the primary source of losses for the company," Chan said in a research note published this week.

    The market share of BlackBerry devices has continued to decline since the launch of this operating system, as access to a number of Android apps through the Amazon.com app store has not been a panacea.



    Now, bearing in mind that "a number of android apps" is actually quite a large number, I think this should be considered pretty seriously. Has a significant expansion of apps had ANY positive effect?
    If no, then people had better moderate their bets placed on how much of an impact more of that will provide.

    The point about technological superiority. Let's just pause for a moment and think about that. If this is true (I believe it is), then we're dealing with a company that can't figure out a strategy to capitalize on its superior technology. Instead they're downgrading to an inferior technology just to improve the ecosystem (which as this article notes has not helped). NOT that bolstering a weak ecosystem isn't needed.

    However this is an indicator that what I've been saying is likely true--that an ecosystem improvement without addressing the other problems (which is what they've done thus far) will not work.
    Additionally, by switching to Android they will be taking on ADDITIONAL problems.

    Maybe Chen's plan is simply to corner the market (via acquisition) on "security" and with the absence of BB10, there will be a definite need for these solutions that BB now owns. Brilliant Mr. Chen, fiendishly brilliant.

    You pull the rug out from under your own Superior Technology, leaving people with no choice but less secure platforms, while scooping up the companies that provide security services and withing a short time, theyy';; all be begging your for help.

    Diabolical.

    KAM
    Last edited by KAM1138; 09-24-15 at 10:02 PM.
    09-24-15 08:47 PM
  8. southlander's Avatar
    If it is because of the Brand (Image), which I agree is a problem, then how is a different OS going to matter?
    It is not the OS that matters. It is seamless compatibility with apps and thousands of 3rd party peripherals.
    09-24-15 11:51 PM
  9. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    It is not the OS that matters. It is seamless compatibility with apps and thousands of 3rd party peripherals.
    Agreed.
    09-24-15 11:53 PM
  10. conite's Avatar
    It is not the OS that matters. It is seamless compatibility with apps and thousands of 3rd party peripherals.
    Agreed. It makes a BlackBerry offering finally viable to the masses.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    ayngling likes this.
    09-25-15 12:03 AM
  11. southlander's Avatar
    Agreed. It makes a BlackBerry offering finally viable to the masses.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Viable. And of course they'll have to work to establish a position where they are perceived to offer value. The hardware keyboard. Privacy. I would assume with it being called Priv there is some ease in restricting access to private data in some way. Otherwise what's the point in the name?

    I could see a scenario where in the carriers stores BlackBerry Android becomes the "plan B" for the sales associate when a customer seems concerned about the data collection on Android. Maybe.

    I see it as a final play to see if perhaps what most mainstream BlackBerry users have come to want is basically BlackBerry hardware running a BlackBerry approved and tweaked version of Android. It's really all they have not tried so far.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    09-25-15 03:33 AM
  12. KAM1138's Avatar
    It is not the OS that matters. It is seamless compatibility with apps and thousands of 3rd party peripherals.
    Yeah, that's the Hail Mary that everyone seems content to bet on. I'm saying that without the other issues being addressed (like Brand Image), it won't matter.

    Again--how much did gaining access to the Amazon App store move the needle? Not at all? Negative? Granted that's not the same magnitude as full access, but even then...will people then say "well, they still can't use iOS apps?"
    Where is that line that (somehow) pushes BlackBerry (with all its other problems) into success territory?

    My friends, I'm not trying to be negative about this, but it just doesn't add up. There is NO sign that BlackBerry is addressing in a signifcant way (or at all) the other issues that has caused it to become a joke to consumers.

    Let's say that you're all right--that EcoSystem issues will disappear overnight...then what? Does anyone really think that will turn things around?

    KAM
    09-25-15 09:11 AM
  13. KAM1138's Avatar
    Agreed. It makes a BlackBerry offering finally viable to the masses.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    If you're all right that Ecosystem is the leading issue for consumers (and that's a reasonable argument), then it STILL has to compete with all these other devices. The things that make the Priv stand out are NOT things the wider consumer market are clamoring for.

    So, assuming the Priv = a "viable" device--meaning it removes the big hurdle that you're all assuming is the hard stop for consumers (I agree it is part of it). THEN it finds itself in a large pool of other devices with a lot better Brand Image, advertising and reputation.

    It seems people are attacking the concept of "wasting money" on things like marketing, because it will throw money away, but you're perfectly comfortable spending money and effort putting a phone out to a market that considers BlackBerry a joke, and NOT the thing that brings them prestige or bragging rights, but rather ridicule.

    There are people that literally laugh at you if you tell them or show them that you've got a BlackBerry, although most just sort of look at you like you're insane.

    I really honestly see history repeating itself here, but with BlackBerry being in an even LOWER state in terms of Brand Image. This is just a Mountain that you're hoping Ecosystem improvements will overcome.

    KAM
    09-25-15 09:18 AM
  14. ubizmo's Avatar
    So, assuming the Priv = a "viable" device--meaning it removes the big hurdle that you're all assuming is the hard stop for consumers (I agree it is part of it). THEN it finds itself in a large pool of other devices with a lot better Brand Image, advertising and reputation.
    Pretty much. Advertising can't overcome real problems that become reasons for (a) people to return devices they just bought; (b) salespeople to discourage people from buying them in the first place; (c) carriers to be reluctant to sell the devices at all. Those are the ecosystem problems and BlackBerry failed to solve them for BB10. Android solves them, to some extent (not without creating other ecosystem problems, but perhaps less serious), but does nothing to repair the collapse of the brand itself.

    So, if they're going to dip into that $3B to try to resuscitate the BlackBerry brand, now would be the time to start.
    KAM1138 likes this.
    09-25-15 09:30 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    @Kam,

    I have been consistent in my belief that in today's market, the ecosystem is the bedrock. It's the starting point. Without it, nothing else matters and all efforts are in vain. That's what happened with BB10. Were there other missteps? Absolutely. But regardless of the course of action, we would still be in the same place today - perhaps even worse if BlackBerry had spent its wad already.

    Of course BlackBerry still needs to execute. I get that. But at least they finally have something to work with.

    They have their ecosystem now. They have their keyboard - which is their DNA. They have their security bit - Grsecurity, BlackBerry Safeguard - also part of their DNA.

    They are now going to lay it all on the line. Let's see what this Google Partnership (which they discussed a bit this morning) really means.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    cbvinh and ayngling like this.
    09-25-15 09:37 AM
  16. KAM1138's Avatar
    Pretty much. Advertising can't overcome real problems that become reasons for (a) people to return devices they just bought; (b) salespeople to discourage people from buying them in the first place; (c) carriers to be reluctant to sell the devices at all. Those are the ecosystem problems and BlackBerry failed to solve them for BB10. Android solves them, to some extent (not without creating other ecosystem problems, but perhaps less serious), but does nothing to repair the collapse of the brand itself.

    So, if they're going to dip into that $3B to try to resuscitate the BlackBerry brand, now would be the time to start.
    I can agree with that.

    I think it is a little late to start, but better late then LATER.

    KAM
    09-25-15 09:49 AM
  17. KAM1138's Avatar
    @Kam,

    I have been consistent in my belief that in today's market, the ecosystem is the bedrock. It's the starting point. Without it, nothing else matters and all efforts are in vain. That's what happened with BB10. Were there other missteps? Absolutely. But regardless of the course of action, we would still be in the same place today - perhaps even worse if BlackBerry had spent its wad already.

    Of course BlackBerry still needs to execute. I get that. But at least they finally have something to work with.

    They have their ecosystem now. They have their keyboard - which is their DNA. They have their security bit - Grsecurity, BlackBerry Safeguard - also part of their DNA.

    They are now going to lay it all on the line. Let's see what this Google Partnership (which they discussed a bit this morning) really means.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Yes, I understand, and respect your position and view, even if I don't share it (to the degree you seem to hold it).

    I still can't agree with the basic premise that "this is what happened with BB10." Because this is ONLY PART of what happened with BB10, and all the rest of those issues (which I know you are aware of) are still there, and perhaps even worse than they were 2.5 years ago.

    But they don't have THEIR Ecosystem...they have Android's Ecosystem--and all the good and bad that entails. I will totally agree that this is a big issue for consumers, but I have to wonder how deep that issue REALLY is for that consumer. Of course with consumers perception is reality, so my musing on that is just curiosity.

    The sticking point for me remains that even if you are right--that the ecosystem is the bedrock, it isn't enough by a longshot.

    You're right--they are laying it on the line, and we'll find out I guess.

    KAM
    09-25-15 09:56 AM
  18. crucial bbq's Avatar
    Gotta say I called this one:

    -That the Priv is meant for BES12/Enterprise. Goal!
    -That BB10 is not dead. Goal!

    Me - 2 : Internet - 0


    Scotia:*It's Time for BlackBerry to Abandon its Operating System - Bloomberg Business

    More data points for this discussion.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Well, the article does say that BB10 is the best mobil OS. It also says that BlackBerry should ditch BB10 for full on Android to aid in the turn-around. What this dude Chan managed to overlook is the fact that Chen's turnaround plan is to take BlackBerry away from being primarily a handset manufacturer to one with a primary focus on end-point security. And if BlackBerry's goal is only 10M handsets sold I am fairly certain that the Priv will accomplish this. That does not mean it will top the charts, just that it is a reasonable goal... eventually.

    Why people are not understanding that BlackBerry is now invested into BES12, end-point security solutions, and IoT full steam ahead with the handsets now being only a small part of BlackBerry is beyond me.

    On a Mac centric Rumor site Chen is quoted as saying that if the Priv does not make money then he will pull out of the Android market. To continue, the quote goes on to say that there is a timeline for this but of course Chen will not say how long.

    ***I am not providing a direct quote or link because the other site is a competitor site.

    The rest of your linked article does make some great points and many of them seem to be what Chen is doing anyways. However, what caught my eye is this:

    "But any move away from the BB10 operating system would have to wait an indefinite amount of time due to preexisting contracts the company has to fulfill."

    I am going to guess that this means that governmental and enterprise contracts have the option for renewal but it also might mean that a phase out of BB10 will not begin until the last units of BB10 phones are sold, meaning that if the last ones are sold today many will be on a two-year contract that BlackBerry would be obligated to support.

    Whichever the case there is still no indication that BB10 is dead.
    09-25-15 10:53 AM
  19. yhamaie's Avatar
    Another piece of article . . .

    http://seekingalpha.com/article/3533...one-os-is-dead

    Posted via CB10
    09-25-15 12:14 PM
  20. crucial bbq's Avatar
    Has a significant expansion of apps had ANY positive effect?
    If no, then people had better moderate their bets placed on how much of an impact more of that will provide.
    In terms of perception, no. Outside of the diehards and fans for all platforms the average consumer purchases phones based on other reasons than the ecosystem while simultaneously "wanting apps". I'll use my mom as an example. She does not understand what an "ecosystem" is or even that some apps are only available on certain platforms but only that if she is looking for a needed app that she wants it to be there. She is on Android and when she gets frustrated because an app is not available, and I tell her that it is an iOS-only app, her response is simply "that's stupid". She believes that all apps are, or should be, available to all phones. Even those who understand that OS-centric apps exists the overall concept of ecosystem is still not too much of a concern as much as the actual phone itself is.

    The point about technological superiority. Let's just pause for a moment and think about that. If this is true (I believe it is), then we're dealing with a company that can't figure out a strategy to capitalize on its superior technology. Instead they're downgrading to an inferior technology just to improve the ecosystem (which as this article notes has not helped). NOT that bolstering a weak ecosystem isn't needed.
    RIM believed that enterprise/business was the driver of sales. Once they realized their error it was too late. Then they thought that security solutions to professionals were the answer, then BYOD hit the scene. Through Heins' tenure, he thought the new modern BB10 would ride on the coattails of RIMs former success; that BB10 being "BlackBerry" would be enough to sell itself. BBOS still out-shipped BB10, amongst many other things. Chen has a solid strategy and the understanding that it will take time but the irony is that in which direction? As of this morning there is indication that if Android fails then BB10 will continue to be BlackBerry's OS. But if Android does well (how "well" has been defined is still rather ambiguous) then Android could become BlackBerry's OS. And to add; there is also the tidbit that sometime between now and then that both OSs will exist within BlackBerry. So what if the Priv only manages to sell "good enough"? What then? A continuation with both OSs until one takes the lead?

    Apple can get away with that stuff but I wish for once that Chen just laid it all out straight. The Priv has likely been one of the most anticipated and talked about phones not only in BlackBerry's history but in the history of smartphones for long time now. It stands the chance to be a big (refraining from saying huge) success but also considering RIM/BlackBerry history going back to 2011 or so it stands an equal chance of being a total failure. (I although I do predict they will meet that 10M units shipped quota).

    The price point is also going to factor into all of this.

    However this is an indicator that what I've been saying is likely true--that an ecosystem improvement without addressing the other problems (which is what they've done thus far) will not work.
    Additionally, by switching to Android they will be taking on ADDITIONAL problems.
    Most definitely.

    Maybe Chen's plan is simply to corner the market (via acquisition) on "security" and with the absence of BB10, there will be a definite need for these solutions that BB now owns. Brilliant Mr. Chen, fiendishly brilliant.
    I believe that this is a part of it. The other part is that having Foxconn take care of the hardware and Android largely the OS, that ultimately a lot of cash would be saved and also would allow the Priv a lower price point.

    You pull the rug out from under your own Superior Technology, leaving people with no choice but less secure platforms, while scooping up the companies that provide security services and withing a short time, theyy';; all be begging your for help.
    The rug is just being tugged at this point. My guess is that initially the Android in the Priv is going to be largely stock but future iterations of the OS are going to look and function more and more uniquely "BlackBerry" as time goes on.

    It is not the OS that matters. It is seamless compatibility with apps and thousands of 3rd party peripherals.
    What peripherals? You mean like wifi connection with printers or something?

    Nearly all of the high end Android devices that the Priv will be competing with all have numerous sensors in them ranging from barometer to bp to O2 to..... Whether the Priv will carry these sensors or not remains to be seen but that is a matter of hardware and firmware, not OS.

    Then again... ....QNX is likely to be the main driver of peripheral expansion in the future and QNX is at the core of BB10... Don't forget that IoT is a huge part of Chen's future vision of BlackBerry.

    Viable. And of course they'll have to work to establish a position where they are perceived to offer value. The hardware keyboard. Privacy. I would assume with it being called Priv there is some ease in restricting access to private data in some way. Otherwise what's the point in the name?

    I could see a scenario where in the carriers stores BlackBerry Android becomes the "plan B" for the sales associate when a customer seems concerned about the data collection on Android. Maybe.

    I see it as a final play to see if perhaps what most mainstream BlackBerry users have come to want is basically BlackBerry hardware running a BlackBerry approved and tweaked version of Android. It's really all they have not tried so far.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    Sigh. Very few people outside of CrackBerry addicts care for a physical keyboard. Even as of this morning's news there are many comments on other websites to the effect of "2005 called and wants their keyboard back". Yeah, this will be a selling point to some--in particular perhaps to the 40 and over crowd who remember "2005", but for the average Android user, especially the younger ones, the pkb is going to be seen as joke no matter how much it can be kept tucked away. They'll simply wonder why it was included in the first place.

    Ah, Jeebus! If by mainstream BlackBerry user you mean those still on BBOS, then perhaps only the keyboard, wider availability, and a decent price point. If you mean BB10 users then you are nuts. We want a BlackBerry OS with BlackBerry apps on BlackBerry hardware. Now, if the Android OS is really tweaked... to the point of looking and feeling like a BlackBerry OS... then maybe....

    The Android on BlackBerry movement is not lost on me; just that these people seemed to have popped up out of thin air recently (and yes, I know that some have been saying that Android is the solution since 2013).

    Again--how much did gaining access to the Amazon App store move the needle? Not at all? Negative? Granted that's not the same magnitude as full access, but even then...will people then say "well, they still can't use iOS apps?"
    Where is that line that (somehow) pushes BlackBerry (with all its other problems) into success territory?

    My friends, I'm not trying to be negative about this, but it just doesn't add up. There is NO sign that BlackBerry is addressing in a signifcant way (or at all) the other issues that has caused it to become a joke to consumers.
    With all of the news coming out today it seems that Chen is simply trying to make "BlackBerry" accessible to as many users as possible. Considering that most were not sold on BB10 then the other option was Android. I bet if he had access to it that we would also be seeing an "iOS BlackBerry" as well.

    Keep in mind that Chen has cross-platform products that he needs to sell and going Android is just as much of a marketing scheme (or perhaps even more so) as it is with "giving consumers what they want" with full access to the Play Store.

    If you're all right that Ecosystem is the leading issue for consumers (and that's a reasonable argument), then it STILL has to compete with all these other devices. The things that make the Priv stand out are NOT things the wider consumer market are clamoring for.
    Again you are correct and this is something that seems lost on the CrackBerry clan. The fact there there is currently no option for 64 gig or 128 gig internal storage is enough right there to turn off Android diehards. And for those who are not aware of the BlackBerry/Samsung partnership (which is likely to be most of them, if not nearly all) will just see this as a Galaxy S6 Edge ripoff.

    According to this article BlackBerry would likely block users from downloading apps from anywhere on the Internet as a part of their focus on security. If BlackBerry is a member of the OHA, as many on here seem to believe, then they cannot do that outright. Instead, BlackBerry Guardian would scan the app and prompt the user if it is advisable or not to install the app in question.

    To add, the article then states that BlackBerry would need to prevent unauthorized tampering with the OS which once again is likely something they cannot do if they are a member of OHA. Or, if it is cool with the "rules", BlackBerry would then be required by OHA agreement to then share that code with not only all members but also including all "free" versions of Android as then that code would become a defacto part of the OS that everyone is free to use.

    They cannot circumvent this by using layers to prevent the tampering as one of the tenets of the OHA is everyone (and I do mean everyone) have free and equal access to the core functionalities of the OS. Rooting and hacking Android are a part of that agreement just as much as apps installing bots to report data back to a 3rd Party is, too.

    I still believe that BlackBerry acquired GPS and GS through an exclusive deal with Google and not the OHA, yet that deal may have included BlackBerry offering up a patent or two to Google and/or Android which may or may not also include BlackBerry collecting royalties from those patents in exchange for Google getting more people into the Play Store.

    Of course this is all speculation on my part.
    dusanvn likes this.
    09-25-15 02:22 PM
  21. southlander's Avatar
    Yeah, that's the Hail Mary that everyone seems content to bet on. I'm saying that without the other issues being addressed (like Brand Image), it won't matter.

    Again--how much did gaining access to the Amazon App store move the needle? Not at all? Negative?
    No one cares about the Amazon app store -- it's nothing but a way for Kindle Fire tablets to get apps. All that matters broadly is Google Play. That's all.

    Releasing this phone is step 1. to a remake of the handset "brand" if it works. I am not saying I think it will.

    Spending billions on ads/apps to push BB10 certainly is NOT the answer either. No one wants anything but iOS (slickest apps) or Android (frequently updated with new features -- lots of attention from devs -- less restrictive to devs than Apple).
    ayngling likes this.
    09-25-15 05:37 PM
  22. southlander's Avatar
    You're right--they are laying it on the line, and we'll find out I guess.
    Lazaridis and Balsille left BlackBerry with billions in the bank and NO debt whatever their other failings were. They are not going to squander the cash that is left on BlackBerry 10 for consumers. Though it was nice to see J Chen reaffirm they are committed to BlackBerry 10 for enterprises and the 10.3.3 update coming this year.

    I don't consider the Priv as some bet the company hail mary. I consider it a test the waters type of thing. Oh if it fails to sell you can bet they'll back away quickly. BUT one nice thing is I would think if the carriers pick it up, and it sells to any degree, at the very least the rate of returns should be a lot lower than with BB10. The customer gets what they expect with no hoops to jump through and no complications. Android with Google Play. On a pretty good spec'ed phone and with a great keyboard and screen.

    I always thought BlackBerry should at least license its hardware keyboard out to other OEMs. This is kind of like that but even better. Their hardware. The Hub. etc.
    09-25-15 05:50 PM
  23. bitingheart1452's Avatar
    Security, Android, Slider Keyboard, Gimmicky curvy screen -- whatever. People want to use iMessage with their friends so they buy an iPhone. Simple.
    09-25-15 05:58 PM
  24. KAM1138's Avatar
    No one cares about the Amazon app store -- it's nothing but a way for Kindle Fire tablets to get apps. All that matters broadly is Google Play. That's all.

    Releasing this phone is step 1. to a remake of the handset "brand" if it works. I am not saying I think it will.

    Spending billions on ads/apps to push BB10 certainly is NOT the answer either. No one wants anything but iOS (slickest apps) or Android (frequently updated with new features -- lots of attention from devs -- less restrictive to devs than Apple).
    There's not just one possible path, that COULD be taken, but you've all decided that's the case. I think Mr. Chen has done his best to make this a self-fulfilled prophecy, by effectively abandoning BB10, without even attempting to address many of the point we're talking about today.

    However, I'm stunned why you think that THIS plan will work. It's really odd how people have such confidence in the plan that is chosen, no matter how many times they fail to work, and REFUSE to consider that MAYBE some of the other areas MIGHT be worth considering a bit more.

    "No one cares about the Amazon App store." Oh...well, who came up with that idea? Did you predict it would have no effect? Shouldn't this cause you to question whether the current course of action which is an expanded version of the same might not be the "must have" solution?

    Why do you say only Google play is all that matters? Matters to who? Does it matter to the iOS users? It doesn't matter much to me at all, but I may not be your average consumer. But the fact is there are large groups that live WITHOUT iOS or Android.Google Play--namely the opposite groups, so that proves that people are perfectly happy to live without the other. IF they have a viable alternative.

    I'm saying is that the "We go for Android, and there's no alternative" mindset, and it ignores other issues.

    In case it wasn't clear--I never advocated spending their remaining BILLIONS on ads or apps. I've talked much more about Marketing (not the same as ads), and PR, and customer relations, AND Ecosystem, and yes I do think some money could be invested in this area.

    Finally, the time to work on your brand doesn't FOLLOW a release of your only product on the horizon--that's an invitation to failure. Not a sure thing, but it is a burden.

    KAM
    09-25-15 07:22 PM
  25. KAM1138's Avatar
    Lazaridis and Balsille left BlackBerry with billions in the bank and NO debt whatever their other failings were. They are not going to squander the cash that is left on BlackBerry 10 for consumers. Though it was nice to see J Chen reaffirm they are committed to BlackBerry 10 for enterprises and the 10.3.3 update coming this year.

    I don't consider the Priv as some bet the company hail mary. I consider it a test the waters type of thing. Oh if it fails to sell you can bet they'll back away quickly. BUT one nice thing is I would think if the carriers pick it up, and it sells to any degree, at the very least the rate of returns should be a lot lower than with BB10. The customer gets what they expect with no hoops to jump through and no complications. Android with Google Play. On a pretty good spec'ed phone and with a great keyboard and screen.

    I always thought BlackBerry should at least license its hardware keyboard out to other OEMs. This is kind of like that but even better. Their hardware. The Hub. etc.
    I think the Priv is at least partially a "test the waters" thing--specifically of how well they can sell their security offerings.

    A +x.x.1 update that comes 6 months down the road...can you have weaker "support"? They might as well have announced closing the doors on that today. I think they've placating those of us who like BB10, but I think the writing is on the wall.

    I think Chen has a small vision for a small company--a software company that sells little more than security products.

    There are plenty of "good spec phones with great screens, and Google play--and ones that don't carry a joke of a brand that people's friend will make fun of. So, what are they offering? A physical keyboard to a mass of customers that has already learned to live without one.
    This is a strategy that's very comfortable with failure as a result.

    Narrow strategy, narrow mindset, which I predict will yield narrow results.

    Blackberry is in a horrible position to sell anyone anything at this point. They could make a GREAT phone, and it will still fail to sell. Why? Because they've shown a consistent knack for doing exactly that, and NOTHING they are doing is changing that.

    Its kind of like patching one of 5 gaping holes in a rowboat...it still isn't gonna float. I DO understand if someone says the same thing about Marketing, and I am TOTALLY understanding that that alone isn't enough.

    Android/Google play is highly unlikely to save Blackberry.

    KAM
    09-25-15 07:34 PM
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