09-30-15 09:21 AM
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  1. I will be back's Avatar
    There is no premium Android phone manufacturer which is not losing it's market share to cheap Android phones.
    So BB as one of thousands of Android vendors is going down and fast.
    lift, johnm137 and jsmith00075 like this.
    09-23-15 09:25 AM
  2. Witmen's Avatar
    Oh wise man from the future, can you tell me - will BlackBerry's trip down with Android be as fast and brutally painful as their trip down with BB10 was?

    Can you name a single smartphone manufacture who has lost billions of dollars because of Android?

    I think we can all name at least one smartphone maker who has lost billions thanks to their decision to create and manufacture BB10 and the hardware that runs it.

    So meh, I can't see how things could get any worse. BB10 is, was, and always has been a complete commercial failure. They didn't make a cent of profit off of BB10. It was a black hole where BlackBerry's money went in and nothing came out. Popping out more BB10 devices won't change that.

    BB10 had its chance to save BlackBerry and it only made things worse for them. Let's see how they do with Android now. It might be a huge success or it might be a huge failure. No one knows for sure yet, but I for one am very excited to see how it plays out.
    09-23-15 09:41 AM
  3. Etzer's Avatar
    This has been said many, many times and it's still a bad argument. What alternative do you propose? Sticking with BB10? It's clear that sales of BB10 devices aren't enough to sustain their hardware business.

    Posted via CB10
    09-23-15 09:47 AM
  4. twelvezero8's Avatar
    I think the point as we have been hearing is secure android. Blaclberry isn't moving to android just to have a stock android device. Believe me there will be some "stand outs" to let the consumer know the difference. Let's all just wait until unveiling. You guys are grasping at straws trying to spin this in the best and worst ways.

    Posted via CB10
    daynebca likes this.
    09-23-15 09:59 AM
  5. I will be back's Avatar
    Believe me there will be some "stand outs" to let the consumer know the difference.
    I believe you.

    Just after seen that Samsung, LG, Sony and every other premium manufacturer is losing money and market share on premium devices, I see no chance for BB to do any better.

    Anyway, I was an Android user for 4 years and I'm not going to that ****hole again
    lift, Allanon89, RezzaBuh and 4 others like this.
    09-23-15 10:08 AM
  6. I will be back's Avatar
    I think the point as we have been hearing is secure android.
    Samsung is doing "secure Android" for years.
    Didn't help.
    Market share of Samsung is going down.

    Only sales of cheap phones are going up.
    09-23-15 10:20 AM
  7. evodevo69's Avatar
    I'm pretty sure the venice is BlackBerry's attempt to re-enter the 1st world market, to regain some relevance.

    Right now, they only have market share to gain as far as I can tell.

    Posted via CB10
    09-23-15 10:21 AM
  8. conite's Avatar
    I believe you.

    Just after seen that Samsung, LG, Sony and every other premium manufacturer is losing money and market share on premium devices, I see no chance for BB to do any better.

    Anyway, I was an Android user for 4 years and I'm not going to that ****hole again
    BlackBerry only needs to sell enough devices to sustain a hardware business at breakeven. Anything after that is gravy.

    BB10 is a financial disaster with no hope of recovery.

    A high-end BlackBerry-branded Android device with better security, the HUB, and a world-class pkb should make it stand out. This isn't just another slab.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    09-23-15 10:22 AM
  9. Thamilan_AllStar's Avatar
    What does pkb mean?

    Posted via CB10
    09-23-15 10:27 AM
  10. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Just after seen that Samsung, LG, Sony and every other premium manufacturer is losing money
    Really? Are you absolutely sure?
    09-23-15 10:29 AM
  11. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    What does pkb mean?
    Physical keyboard.
    09-23-15 10:30 AM
  12. ayngling's Avatar
    What does pkb mean?
    Physical keyboard. VKB is virtual keyboard. We love our acronyms here
    Thamilan_AllStar likes this.
    09-23-15 10:30 AM
  13. ToniCipriani's Avatar
    Samsung is doing "secure Android" for years.
    Except their so-called secure devices and their reputation for security is terrible.

    New exploit turns Samsung Galaxy phones into remote bugging devices | Ars Technica
    Samsung silently disabling Windows Update on some computers | Ars Technica
    09-23-15 10:40 AM
  14. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    BlackBerry only needs to sell enough devices to sustain a hardware business at breakeven. Anything after that is gravy.

    BB10 is a financial disaster with no hope of recovery.

    A high-end BlackBerry-branded Android device with better security, the HUB, and a world-class pkb should make it stand out. This isn't just another slab.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    This.

    And I'll add, who says that BB can't make a low cost phone like the Moto G or E with a slide out PKB for emerging markets? I'm sure Lenovo would even build it for them. Blackberry is not restricted to the high end.
    09-23-15 10:53 AM
  15. KAM1138's Avatar
    Hello,

    I'm surprised that mindset seems to be "Just make an Android Phone" and it will be better. Well, no it won't, because the OS is not the root of the problem. So, everyone blaming BB10 in a blanket way is really not considering all the problems BlackBerry has.

    There is ONE key problem with using BB10--Ecosystem, and that's not to downplay it, but to Many if not most consumers, they don't go beyond that. "Oh, can I get Stupid App X, Y or Z that my friends are using? Yes? Ok, great."

    If they DID have that (easier said than done I realize), THEN you could sell the other excellent features of BB10 much more easily. Of course, they've done a horrific job "selling" the features of BB10 period, but that's yet another story--one which WON'T be solved by using Android OS.

    It doesn't matter if Blackberry puts out an Android Phone IF the other issues (their pathetic marketing being a big one, and general pathetic PR and communications) aren't solved, but that's EXACTLY where we are headed.

    So, all of you counting on Android being a savior play...brace yourselves.

    BB10 wasn't, isn't the problem. It is Great Technology that they've failed to make a case for, which has then Guaranteed that the Ecosystem problem remains an issue. That said, even improvements in Ecosystem (sort of) with Amazon App store haven't improved the overall picture, so just more of the same (in the eyes of the average consumer) will not make one bit of difference.

    Let me state again, the play that people seem to be putting their hopes on: That people will be drawn in by Android (meaning--access to apps), and just fall in love with whatever Blackberry features the phone has pasted on.

    How does this differ from having fully functioning Blackberry features with a much wider selection of Apps (Amazon App store). I realize this isn't the same as easy access to all Android apps, but notice the similarities.

    Now, look at the effect of the latter, vs your hopes for the former? Keep in mind, this is going to be how your average consumer sees things. Do you really think that they're going to choose the BlackBerry device that runs all those apps over the Samsung one that does all of that?

    Do you really think that people are going to flock to the Brand that is a joke, or that they think is dead OVER Samsung...or LG or whoever else puts out phones that their friends have? They aren't. A few curiosity seekers is about all you are likely to get. Can that number be significant? Maybe--compared to the tiny number of Blackberry users...sure, that's an incredibly low hurdle, and it won't turn anything around.

    KAM
    lift, Beakman, Allanon89 and 9 others like this.
    09-23-15 10:57 AM
  16. KAM1138's Avatar
    BB10 is a financial disaster with no hope of recovery.
    Yes, but that's not getting to the real issue. WHY is it a financial disaster? It is NOT because the OS isn't good technology, or doesn't have good features, so why would anyone think that changing the thing that isn't the core problem will make things better.

    That is unless you DO think that BB10 is inferior technology.

    This whole exercise is one massive failure to properly identify the problem, which insures that (except by some random event) the "solution" will fail to address the ACTUAL problem.

    Again, when it comes down to it, everyone is betting that ECOSYSTEM improvement will carry the day. That's part of it, but I don't think it is nearly encapsulating the whole of the problems BlackBerry has and mistakes they've made which DID lead to the financial disaster that is BlackBerry.

    BB10 itself isn't the problem, and it seems people (including BlackBerry apparently) don't get that.

    Or I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'm willing to Eat Crow on this--I'd happily do so, should the Venice turn BlackBerry around. Just VERY doubtful that will happen.

    KAM
    lift, Allanon89, Bumppa and 4 others like this.
    09-23-15 11:03 AM
  17. conite's Avatar
    Hello,

    I'm surprised that mindset seems to be "Just make an Android Phone" and it will be better. Well, no it won't, because the OS is not the root of the problem. So, everyone blaming BB10 in a blanket way is really not considering all the problems BlackBerry has.

    KAM
    In my opinion, BlackBerry could have spent all of its $3 billion on advertising, and it wouldn't have accomplished a single thing if what they were peddling had no ecosystem.

    They were already out of the game before BB10 was even launched, because they were two years too late.

    I can't predict how the Android device will do, but I see little alternative.

    Carrier support is crucial to volume sales. Waterloo can produce adds as much as they like, but you need the carriers to flog the devices. For the first time in ages, the carriers actually seem interested. Android sites are interested. Tech bloggers are interested.

    I'm hoping for the best.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    cbvinh, jakie55, dusanvn and 6 others like this.
    09-23-15 11:06 AM
  18. ayngling's Avatar
    In my opinion, BlackBerry could have spent all of its $3 billion on advertising, and it wouldn't have accomplished a single thing if what they were peddling had no ecosystem.

    They were already out of the game before BB10 was even launched, because they were two years too late.

    I can't predict how the Android device will do, but I see little alternative.

    Carrier support is crucial to volume sales. Waterloo can produce adds as much as they like, but you need the carriers to flog the devices. For the first time in ages, the carriers actually seem interested. Android sites are interested. Tech bloggers are interested.

    I'm hoping for the best.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    This. Spot on, every single point.
    09-23-15 11:09 AM
  19. twelvezero8's Avatar
    Samsung is doing "secure Android" for years.
    Didn't help.
    Market share of Samsung is going down.

    Only sales of cheap phones are going up.
    I was beaten to it but yes they have been "trying" and "attempting" to do secure android. Believe blackberry reputation alone on security is going to let the consumer know they are really doing it. Let alone blackberry getting it right.

    Posted via CB10
    09-23-15 11:11 AM
  20. conite's Avatar
    I was beaten to it but yes they have been "trying" and "attempting" to do secure android. Believe blackberry reputation alone on security is going to let the consumer know they are really doing it. Let alone blackberry getting it right.

    Posted via CB10
    There is just so much you can do to protect the kernel. I think Grsecurity is doing as much as can be done without BlackBerry trying to reinvent the wheel.

    What I am most interested about is the BlackBerry Safeguard component of the BlackBerry Experience Suite. I'd like to know more about that.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    09-23-15 11:18 AM
  21. KAM1138's Avatar
    In my opinion, BlackBerry could have spent all of its $3 billion on advertising, and it wouldn't have accomplished a single thing if what they were peddling had no ecosystem.
    They were already out of the game before BB10 was even launched, because they were two years too late.
    I can't predict how the Android device will do, but I see little alternative.
    Carrier support is crucial to volume sales. Waterloo can produce adds as much as they like, but you need the carriers to flog the devices. For the first time in ages, the carriers actually seem interested. Android sites are interested. Tech bloggers are interested.
    I'm hoping for the best.
    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Yeah, I'm hoping for the best too, but it doesn't matter if BlackBerry the company is grasping at straws instead of investing in solutions that matter.
    You said if they spent 3 Billion on Advertising it wouldn't matter without an ecosystem.

    First...I think you underestimate how effective advertising can be in promoting things (even inferior things). Brand identity is a VERY powerful thing, and while there is no arguing that BlackBerry as a brand is damaged goods, Apple was also one time at a low ebb in terms of Brand appeal (before the ipod). 3 Billion...yeah, it would have made a huge difference, but we both know no one would spend that or have to.

    However, imagine taking 500 million (for example) as spending it on developing your ecosystem, insuring that your device has all those apps that the kiddies and grandparents want/demand (or are told they need) and flock to other devices to get. THEN add all the superior functionality on BB10 on top of that.

    I think that's what people are envisioning happening with the "Best of both worlds" hope with the Android phone, but I think its just in reverse, AND without doing the work needed to repair the Brand.

    Carriers are fickle, AND I'd be careful relying on them to support the Venice. Why? Do you really think that these ill-informed twerps that knew nothing about BB10 or how to provide people options and information have ANY interest in promoting Blackberry over Samsung or LG? No--they want to push a phone into someone's hand as quickly as possible, and if someone comes in because they saw a Samsung Ad, they're more than happy to sell them one. Blackberry won't even be mentioned.

    Somehow, some way they have to get back in front of CONSUMERS sitting in front of their TV, and figure out a way to appeal to them.

    We're existing in a bubble, where Tech Bloggers and Phone Websites matter. You probably know this--they don't mean squat to most people. HOWEVER, BlackBerry is not even doing a good job getting THOSE outlets informed and excited. We're both posting at a Website DEDICATED to BlackBerry, and it has ZERO to offer us in terms of any sort of official news or information.

    We're out here begging for some scrap of information. BEGGING like fools, hoping beyond hope that BlackBerry somehow gets it right this time.

    I really don't want to be negative, but the frustration is really high with BlackBerry (just bought a Silver Edition Passport), and I'm a stockholder, but I see nothing approaching a coherent, competent plan, or offering coming out of them. And if there is a plan it is LONG past time that they start conveying what that is.

    We've been here before--in the early days of BB10 pre-launch, and they don't seem to have learned ANY lessons from that disaster. All they are doing is repeating the same mistakes (inaction mostly) but this time they're offering an Android Operating system, hoping to succeed with the "me too" strategy. I am not sure why this makes anyone feel optimistic, but bless you if you are.

    KAM
    Allanon89, dusanvn and Mikey_NNG like this.
    09-23-15 11:27 AM
  22. conite's Avatar
    @Kam,

    Samsung and Apple spend over a $1 billion dollars on smartphone advertising each, every single year.

    BlackBerry tried everything they could to get the developers on board (prior to, during, and immediately after BB10 launch), but they refused.

    Netflix had a working app that they could have ported to BlackBerry World immediately, in under 5 minutes, at no cost. They refused because they saw no value in supporting a third ecosystem that was already miles behind the other two. Same for Instagram, same for Snapchat. The list goes on. BlackBerry offered cash incentives, and they offered to provide app support. Still nothing.

    Again, I believe it was over before it even started.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    dusanvn likes this.
    09-23-15 11:43 AM
  23. ayngling's Avatar
    3 Billion...yeah, it would have made a huge difference, but we both know no one would spend that or have to.

    However, imagine taking 500 million (for example) as spending it on developing your ecosystem, insuring that your device has all those apps that the kiddies and grandparents want/demand (or are told they need) and flock to other devices to get.
    I think you VASTLY underestimate the cost of advertising, etc.
    southlander and Jahcure like this.
    09-23-15 11:49 AM
  24. KAM1138's Avatar
    @Kam,

    Samsung and Apple spend over a $1 billion dollars on smartphone advertising each, every single year.

    BlackBerry tried everything they could to get the developers on board (prior to, during, and immediately after BB10 launch), but they refused.

    Netflix had a working app that they could have ported to BlackBerry World immediately, in under 5 minutes, at no cost. They refused because they saw no value in supporting a third ecosystem that was already miles behind the other two. Same for Instagram, same for Snapchat. The list goes on. BlackBerry offered cash incentives, and they offered to provide app support. Still nothing.

    Again, I believe it was over before it even started.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2639
    Well, that's just it isn't it? They are trying to convince 3rd party developers to "invest" (their efforts) in them. Of course they don't want to do that, because there is no customer base.

    But that's a catch 22/circular argument. "We can't get customers because we don't have apps-->We don't have apps, because we don't have customers."

    Not pooh-poohing that--its real. So, what I'm saying is that they need another route, and in my mind that means spending money directly to make these apps, and provide them to the customers.

    Blackberry doesn't wait around for someone to provide them with BBM, or Remember, or for E-mail and Text. Now, I realize these things are more integrated.

    Are you actually telling me that it is impossible for BB10 devices to have an app for Instagram (I don't use this service and know little about it) for ANY price or investment? I would find that VERY hard to believe.

    You're absolutely correct if you say that many consumers DEMAND these things, and NOT having them is a problem. I just don't see how this is beyond the realm of possibility for BlackBerry to somehow achieve with billions of dollars in the bank.
    How many of these "vital" apps are there? A dozen? New ones come out as time passes I'm sure.

    Maybe I'm wrong, but I really do not believe that this CAN'T be done, and for FAR less than a billion dollars (or 3). A billion dollars goes a LONG way in this world still, and this can't be that difficult given that the exact same things is done on other systems.

    Bottom line of what I'm saying is that I Realize (and agree) that the route they tried previously didn't work. Did they try another route?

    In terms of Apple and Samsung spending 1 billion. Right--and it pays off. You've got to spend money to make money, and they aren't doing it. But clearly this DOES have to go hand in hand with improving the Ecosystem. They can't have holes in it for these Headlining things (netflix, instagram, etc), so they have to do whatever it takes to fill those holes.

    KAM
    Allanon89 and dusanvn like this.
    09-23-15 12:02 PM
  25. matt4pack's Avatar
    Advertising doesn't mean anything these days with the sheepish culture and media we have now. The amazon fire phone was heavily advertised. The facebook phone was heavily advertised and they were both complete failures who disappeared from the market in no time. The fact that bb10 was actually a good product is what kept it from the same instant fate as those phones. Most of the advertising these days is free and comes from the media. If all they mention is apple then that's something you have no control over. The media didn't use to have that kind of control so advertising did use to matter.

    But it's sad how many people seem to want less competition these days.

    Posted via CB10
    09-23-15 12:02 PM
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