1. claytargets's Avatar
    Wondering if with latest version of marshmallow, are cleaning apps necessary?

    Forum Thoughts Appreciated

    Posted via my BlackBerry Priv
    08-27-16 01:25 AM
  2. Centerman66's Avatar
    Nope

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android on my Priv
    08-27-16 01:39 AM
  3. Uzi's Avatar
    I don't use it my Priv run smoothly
    08-27-16 01:46 AM
  4. Ment's Avatar
    As a personal choice, once in a blue moon I use SD Maid to clean up traces of old apps since many of them leave things like settings when you uninstall and that bugs me even though it just may take up some little space to leave it be. Other than that there is no technical reason to use cleaning apps and maybe some negatives, some cleaning apps are just vehicles for ad garbage.
    08-27-16 01:47 AM
  5. zocster's Avatar
    As a personal choice, once in a blue moon I use SD Maid to clean up traces of old apps since many of them leave things like settings when you uninstall and that bugs me even though it just may take up some little space to leave it be. Other than that there is no technical reason to use cleaning apps and maybe some negatives, some cleaning apps are just vehicles for ad garbage.
    I agree with sdmaid

    Sent from mTalk on Windows Phone 10
    saeengineer likes this.
    08-27-16 02:22 AM
  6. dbac50's Avatar
    Sometimes reading through posts you stumble upon a gem, SDmaid is one of those.
    Thank you for sharing Ment.

    Posted via the CrackBerry App for Android
    FF22 and saeengineer like this.
    08-27-16 03:48 AM
  7. Mirko935's Avatar
    I might try this SD Maid. Does it by itself offer to clean app files when an app finishes uninstalling? ES File Explorer does that, but it became a little too bloated lately so I stopped using it. It's actually a great app, but I just need a simple file explorer.

    As for other cleaning, it's unnecessary, maybe occasionally if an app starts "misbehaving" clear its cache. Than can help if a poorly written app starts wasting space, but I haven't had a need to do that in years.
    RAM cleaners and such are utter idiocy, as is clearing apps from Recent apps menu. It does more harm than good unless, again, if an app is misbehaving, wasting CPU or battery and you want to force it to close.

    I do use System Panel Lite to occasionally take a look at opened processes and what are they doing if I notice some weird system slowdowns. I had a use for it to kill an app maybe 5 times in the last two years, I have it installed more as a habit because 5 years ago there was way more problematic apps on Android.
    FF22 likes this.
    08-27-16 09:27 AM
  8. rotorwrench's Avatar
    I'm new to Android as of a few months ago and still learning and picking up things, so correct me if I'm wrong, but in my use on a couple of Android tablets I've come to find that the performance of the ASUS and Samsung tablets I've been using (Lollipop) degrades considerably with use unless cleaned periodically, namely caches, tmp files, logs etc. The RAM being the most affected. After a cleaning my RAM is back up and glitchy, laggy behaviour appears to be reduced.

    I know of no other way to clean the system except to go into settings and individually clean each app, which helps, but only cleans caches and temp data, and is infinity slower than using SD Maid. Restarts help, but on Android, I don't know if the effects are the same as on BBOS and a Windows computer, which both benefit noticeably from said actions.

    What I've seen from seasoned users on Android forums and on XDA seem to indicate the cleaning process is not only recommended but considered a necessary evil on Android devices for smooth and lag lessened performance.

    So what is being said here is no system or cache cleaning is necessary on an Android device? If so, you are saying that the monitored diminishing RAM through use has no effect on performance? Just trying to learn Android and definitely don't need to be performing unnecessary actions.


    Posted via CB10
    FF22 likes this.
    08-27-16 09:50 AM
  9. Mirko935's Avatar
    RAM cleaning definitely isn't helpful. The point of having more RAM is to have as many apps in it as possible because it's tens of times faster than loading an app from "internal storage" or a hard drive on your PC. It's why e.g. Windows since XP has what is called "Standby memory". Bits and pieces of apps are left in RAM to enable faster subsequent opening of a program.

    Android functions similarly, on Android pretty much the entire app is left in RAM when you press Home, open something else etc. Doing that invokes the app's onPause() method, the app then suspends most of its functions, saves a part of its state in case it needs to quickly be closed and basically sits quietly in your RAM. When you open that app again from Recent apps or from the launcher, the device doesn't have to actually read app files from storage, it just invokes the app's onResume() method, resumes the app's main activities and puts it to foreground.
    Problems here can arise if the app is made in such a way as to continue doing too many things when it's in the background. For example, a few years ago I had so much problems with Viber using up CPU time in the background that I ended up uninstalling it. Facebook app was also a regular offender.

    RAM is perfectly well managed by the Android's built-in memory management functions. When your RAM is near full, the system stops and closes activites (apps) which are least needed, usually just background activities but in extreme cases even services (e.g. IM and email "push monitoring activities" etc.) and the foreground activity can be closed. Theoretically, that stopping process probably causes a slight system slowdown because the app has to save its state to permanent memory and close, but I don't believe that can be noticed much on modern CPUs.

    RAM cleaners actually cause a much larger overall slowdown because normally you probably use around 5 or 6 apps regularly and most of the time they can simultaneously sit in the RAM and you occasionally call one of them when you want to use them. They all open pretty much instantly because they are already in RAM and they just resume whatever they (or you) were doing.
    When you use a RAM cleaner it closes those background activities and every time you call a program your device has to load it from internal storage. There is absolutely no benefit to using them unless you have misbehaving apps that are wasting your CPU in the background. That constant closing and opening of apps actually causes more battery drain because the entire RAM is constantly refreshed regardless of whether or not there is anything in it, and when you open an app from internal storage, your phone has to use power to read the NAND and it has to use CPU to actually open the app. Even worse is the fact that those RAM cleaners can even close services and thereby cause you to miss messages or make your phone pointlessly have to reopen something that was meant to be always-on.

    It's true that some devices may benefit a little from manual closing of apps if the manufacturers set the limits of RAM usage required to start stopping activities wrong, it's what many Custom ROMs once tweaked (and are probably still tweaking, I'm not into it much anymore) to achieve better performance, but I don't really believe that is still required as Android exists for many years and I had a cheap Chinese device before the Priv and I never had any need to mess with its memory management or anything else.

    In short, don't use RAM cleaners, if you notice something weird, check what your apps are doing and only close the one that is misbehaving. System Panel which I mentioned earlier can help you identify such apps, or probably better solution, the Greenify app.

    Cache cleaning can be beneficial, as I said, if an app is wasting space. But cache is actually a very useful feature which is also actually speeding your device up, it wouldn't be there if it wasn't useful. Consider the fact that Android is being developed for 10+ years, I guess the people that are programming it know something about what they're doing and they have that cache part of OS for a reason. We could say it's sort of similar to RAM, it caches the data the app uses, e.g. Facebook probably stores some downloaded photos, stories maybe, so that it doesn't have to constantly be reloaded from the internet every time you use the app. And your internal storage is, as in the RAM vs. NAND story, way faster than your internet connection and less power is needed to load those bits of information from your storage than using Wi-Fi or 3G/4G to download it.

    Hope this helps
    Last edited by Mirko935; 08-27-16 at 03:43 PM.
    Matt J and Troy Tiscareno like this.
    08-27-16 10:41 AM
  10. Matt J's Avatar
    Consider the fact that Android is being developed for 10+ years, I guess the people that are programming it know something about what they're doing and they have that cache part of OS for a reason.
    I agree 100%. I think RAM and cache cleaners and apps that shut down apps do more harm than good. I try to keep my RAM use high and never actually close apps. My Priv can get me through the day easily with juice to spare.
    Mirko935 likes this.
    08-27-16 10:51 AM
  11. FF22's Avatar
    I, too, am relatvely new with Android even though I've had a Samsung Tab for a year or two, I never dealt with it on a regular basis and its battery life or complications never concerned me. But an Android phone, running all the time and with unfettered access to the Internet and my contacts and calendar and everything else has made me more aware of what's running and, I guess, WHY it is running.

    When I open Bytehamster's Task Manager I would like to know why suddenly Starbucks is running and I've not used it in weeks. Also, my gps Tracking program which I've similarly not used in weeks. Calendar, Twitter, Accuweather, - okay, they are keeping up with the times.

    When I see those "I haven't run them in weeks" apps running I want them closed. I do not need them opening quickly two weeks from now or even later today. Call me "whatever" but that's the way I feel. I want to control my phone, tablet or computer (don't get me started that Win10 Home won't let me control Updates!!!!)

    So, I do close things. Maybe wrongly but.....

    SD-Maid just cleaned up STUFF. (thanks for the recommendation). And it found lots of duplicate files (free won't clean them), but I could do it manually hooked up to usb and perusing its findings.

    Now if only I could clean my desk and den as easily!!!!!!!!1
    rotorwrench likes this.
    08-27-16 12:02 PM
  12. Mirko935's Avatar
    I, too, am relatvely new with Android even though I've had a Samsung Tab for a year or two, I never dealt with it on a regular basis and its battery life or complications never concerned me. But an Android phone, running all the time and with unfettered access to the Internet and my contacts and calendar and everything else has made me more aware of what's running and, I guess, WHY it is running.

    When I open Bytehamster's Task Manager I would like to know why suddenly Starbucks is running and I've not used it in weeks. Also, my gps Tracking program which I've similarly not used in weeks. Calendar, Twitter, Accuweather, - okay, they are keeping up with the times.

    When I see those "I haven't run them in weeks" apps running I want them closed. I do not need them opening quickly two weeks from now or even later today. Call me "whatever" but that's the way I feel. I want to control my phone, tablet or computer (don't get me started that Win10 Home won't let me control Updates!!!!)

    So, I do close things. Maybe wrongly but.....

    SD-Maid just cleaned up STUFF. (thanks for the recommendation). And it found lots of duplicate files (free won't clean them), but I could do it manually hooked up to usb and perusing its findings.

    Now if only I could clean my desk and den as easily!!!!!!!!1
    Well, it runs because it wants to run, someone made it run at startup or something. It really doesn't need to concern you, it probably does nothing in the background.

    Your closing it probably just makes it reopen at some point. If you really want to prevent an app from running, use Greenify app which I linked earlier. It can prevent an app from running unless you open it yourself.

    The thing is that the system itself is better at managing some things than you or me, and especially than the average user that doesn't know first thing about RAM, CPU usage or programming, that's why you don't have complete control. At least that's the way I see it. I used to think the same way as you when I came to Android after using old Windows Mobile, but it doesn't concern me much anymore. If something wants to run, I let it run as long as it doesn't affect performance or something else. I believe most things have a valid reason for running. DTEK notifies me if something is using location, accessing my phonebook etc. and that's all I care about.
    FF22 likes this.
    08-27-16 12:27 PM
  13. rotorwrench's Avatar
    RAM cleaning definitely isn't helpful. The point of having more RAM is to have as many apps in it as possible because it's tens of times faster than loading an app from "internal storage" or a hard drive on your PC. It's why e.g. Windows since XP has what is called "Standby memory". Bits and pieces of apps are left in RAM to enable faster subsequent opening of a program.

    Android functions similarly, on Android pretty much the entire app is left in RAM when you press Home, open something else etc. Doing that invokes the app's onPause() method, the app then suspends most of its functions, saves a part of its state in case it needs to quickly be closed and basically sits quietly in your RAM. When you open that app again from Recent apps or from the launcher, the device doesn't have to actually read app files from storage, it just invokes the app's onResume() method, resumes the app's main activities and puts it to foreground.
    Problems here can arise if the app is made in such a way as to continue doing too many things when it's in the background. For example, a few years ago I had so much problems with Viber using up CPU time in the background that I ended up uninstalling it. Facebook app was also a regular offender.

    RAM is perfectly well managed by the Android's built-in memory management functions. When your RAM is near full, the system stops and closes activites (apps) which are least needed, usually just background activities but in extreme cases even services (e.g. IM and email "push monitoring activities" etc.) and the foreground activity can be closed. Theoretically, that stopping process probably causes a slight system slowdown because the app has to save its state to permanent memory and close, but I don't believe that can be noticed much on modern CPUs.

    RAM cleaners actually cause a much larger overall slowdown because normally you probably use around 5 or 6 apps regularly and most of the time they can simultaneously sit in the RAM and you occasionally call one of them when you want to use them. They all open pretty much instantly because they are already in RAM and they just resume whatever they (or you) were doing.
    When you use a RAM cleaner it closes those background activities and every time you call a program your device has to load it from internal storage. There is absolutely no benefit to using them unless you have misbehaving apps that are wasting your CPU in the background. That constant closing and opening of apps actually causes more battery drain because the entire RAM is constantly refreshed regardless of whether or not there is anything in it, and when you open an app from internal storage, your phone has to use power to read the NAND and it has to use CPU to actually open the app. Even worse is the fact that those RAM cleaners can even close services and thereby cause you to miss messages or make your phone pointlessly have to reopen something that was meant to be always-on.

    It's true that some devices may benefit a little from manual closing of apps if the manufacturers set the limits of RAM usage required to start stopping activities wrong, it's what many Custom ROMs once tweaked (and are probably still tweaking, I'm not into it much anymore) to achieve better performance, but I don't really believe that is still required as Android exists for many years and I had a cheap Chinese device before the Priv and I never had any need to mess with its memory management or anything else.

    In short, don't use RAM cleaners, if you notice something weird, check what your apps are doing and only close the one that is misbehaving. System Panel which I mentioned earlier can help you identify such apps, or probably better solution, the Greenify app.

    Cache cleaning can be beneficial, as I said, if an app is wasting space. But cache is actually a very useful feature which is also actually speeding your device up, it wouldn't be there if it wasn't useful. Consider the fact that Android is being developed for 10+ years, I guess the people that are programming it know something about what they're doing and they have that cache part of OS for a reason. We could say it's sort of similar to RAM, it caches the data the app uses, e.g. Facebook probably stores some downloaded photos, stories maybe, so that it doesn't have to constantly be reloaded from the internet every time you use the app. And your internal storage is, as in the RAM vs. NAND story, way faster than your internet connection and less power is needed to load those bits of information from your storage than using Wi-Fi or 3G/4G to download it.

    Hope this helps
    The explanation is much appreciated and I can understand the logic of it, but I too am in the control freak mode of F2, I don't like apps running without my initiating them, especially if I don't know WHY they're running or accessing a network. I come from a very security conscious occupation environment and apps accessing networks uncommanded make me very uncomfortable not to mention unnecessary for my use. I don't mind a delay upon opening an app, so keeping caches clean is not an issue for me.

    Our work phones are all BB and locked down for apps with unnecessary background processes, and none have access to PI or CI unless manually given. Our caches and tmp files are automatically cleaned on a schedule so as not to accumulate retained sensitive data.

    That being said, the Priv is my personal phone and while I want to maintain optimum performance, I don't want to do it at the expense of PIM or security, especially to data mining apps and Google, which I realize in this android ecosystem is well nigh impossible.

    Thanks again for the in depth explanation, it was very helpful. I will definitely take the information and advice under advisement.

    Posted via CB10
    FF22 likes this.
    08-27-16 04:11 PM
  14. Mirko935's Avatar
    The explanation is much appreciated and I can understand the logic of it, but I too am in the control freak mode of F2, I don't like apps running without my initiating them, especially if I don't know WHY they're running or accessing a network. I come from a very security conscious occupation environment and apps accessing networks uncommanded make me very uncomfortable not to mention unnecessary for my use. I don't mind a delay upon opening an app, so keeping caches clean is not an issue for me.

    Our work phones are all BB and locked down for apps with unnecessary background processes, and none have access to PI or CI unless manually given. Our caches and tmp files are automatically cleaned on a schedule so as not to accumulate retained sensitive data.

    That being said, the Priv is my personal phone and while I want to maintain optimum performance, I don't want to do it at the expense of PIM or security, especially to data mining apps and Google, which I realize in this android ecosystem is well nigh impossible.

    Thanks again for the in depth explanation, it was very helpful. I will definitely take the information and advice under advisement.

    Posted via CB10
    Regarding security concerns, I believe Task Killers also don't really offer much. Your killing them with such an app won't actually prevent them from running. If they really want to run they will restart. I know Greenify used to be able to actually prevent an app from running so try that (I haven't used it in years so I'm unsure what it can do nowadays).

    If I recall correctly, unlike data written to external memory (i.e. internal and external storage), app caches and app data are private to the app that made them, i.e. encrypted and normally unreadable by any other app. I'm not a security expert so you should double-check this with Google and/or BB if it's a serious matter of security.

    I don't really believe that Google cares about your personal information, that whole thing sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory to me. All they care about is collecting some info in order to be able to present you with relevant ads that you will click on and make them a few cents of profit.
    If that really concerns you, maybe you shouldn't use Google's services. You could use your phone without a Google account and download apps from Amazon or some other third parties if you think that would be somehow safer for you.
    08-28-16 04:49 AM

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