09-08-15 11:31 PM
153 12345 ...
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  1. Benjamin Black's Avatar
    Make the Linux app work with the qnx kernel. Game over.

    Posted via CB10
    What you said makes no sense. Linux is a kernel. Qnx is a kernel.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    Mecca EL likes this.
    08-23-15 12:16 AM
  2. anon(3066922)'s Avatar
    What you said is a bigger leak than everything @evleaks has published so far...

    Your comment means: I'm not that far from reality. Now here things begin to become REALLY interesting.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    By the way I think a bigger leak would be another comment I made in ago CC forum. I wont repeat but it addresses hyperviser.

    Posted via CB10
    08-23-15 12:22 AM
  3. Benjamin Black's Avatar
    By the way I think a bigger leak would be another comment I made in ago CC forum. I wont repeat but it addresses hyperviser.

    Posted via CB10
    Glad hypervisor was brought back in.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    08-23-15 12:56 AM
  4. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Unless you want to fiddle with SELinux policies and do some serious Android developments, that is. BlackBerry, as far as we know, has zero experience developing for Linux. Of course some Google assistance could change some things here.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    You're overcomplicating things. Just share folders and use ES file explorer in Android, and enable WiFi access in BlackBerry.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    08-23-15 01:17 AM
  5. keithhackneysmullet's Avatar
    Your grasping at straws rather than accepting the obvious. I hope Crackberry has grief counselors on staff when the slider is announced with android and a suite of BlackBerry apps pre-installed with no qnx kernel or HYPERVISOR to be found

    Posted via CB10
    08-23-15 01:20 AM
  6. Benjamin Black's Avatar
    You're overcomplicating things. Just share folders and use ES file explorer in Android, and enable WiFi access in BlackBerry.
    Not the point

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    08-23-15 01:26 AM
  7. cgk's Avatar
    Your grasping at straws rather than accepting the obvious. I hope Crackberry has grief counselors on staff when the slider is announced with android and a suite of BlackBerry apps pre-installed with no qnx kernel or HYPERVISOR to be found

    Posted via CB10
    Another theory.-capture.png
    08-23-15 07:53 AM
  8. lawguyman's Avatar
    Click image for larger version. 

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    One of the funniest posts ever. I'm still laughing. Congrats!

    Posted via CB10
    bungaboy and jakie55 like this.
    08-23-15 09:03 AM
  9. lawguyman's Avatar
    This is what Google has to say about Android security and the security of the Linux kernel:

    https://source.android.com/devices/t...-security.html

    Why, in plain English, is Google wrong such that QNX would be an improvement?



    Posted via CB10
    08-23-15 09:14 AM
  10. cgk's Avatar
    This is what Google has to say about Android security and the security of the Linux kernel:

    https://source.android.com/devices/t...-security.html

    Why, in plain English, is Google wrong such that QNX would be an improvement?



    Posted via CB10
    Or more straight forward - why does a company (Google) that believes that it's product is superior make this change?

    Sent from my LG-D802 using Tapatalk
    08-23-15 09:22 AM
  11. SirQ's Avatar
    As you know, Android is made of Linux + Google userland (bionic + SurfaceFlinger + AudioFlinger + other things) + ART and sandbox + APPS. The MADA you love [...] has a laundry list of conditions that must be fulfilled by the manufacturer, like putting Google search front and center, installing some Google apps, passing the Android Compatibility Test and the f) letter in the 2.2 point, License Grant Restrictions: "(f) take any aclfons that may cause or result in the fragmentation of Android, including but not limited to the distribution by Company of a software development kit (SDK) derived from Android or derived from Android Compatible Devices and Company shall-not assist or encourage any third party to distribute a software development kit (SDK) derived from Android, or derived from Android Compatible Devices" (emphasis by me).

    As you know, no mobile manufacturer who wants to run Android, not even the mighty Samsung, has a kernel. Citing only operating systems with Android runtimes:
    - Tizen is Linux + Linux userland (glibc + Wayland + PulseAudio) + Enlightenment Foundation Libraries + Tizen apps + Android compatibility libraries.
    - Sailfish is Linux + Linux userland (glibc + Wayland + PulseAudio) + Qt 5 + Sailfish apps + Android runtime.

    As I said: no one has a kernel. No one, except BlackBerry.

    There is nothing in the MADA that prevents BlackBerry from shipping this: QNX Neutrino + QNX userland and display engine + ART (ported to QNX userland) + Android Apps. If you want to comply with MADA you only have to a) put Google Apps front and center; b) comply with the Android Compatibility Tests.
    Interesting think piece.

    Legally speaking, though, what is different about this QNX set-up from the Tizen en Sailfish examples? Both appear identical in the sense they are Android 'derivatives'. To clarify, is your argument that since it would "look like Android and act like Android", Google would let it pass because it would not "contribute to fragmentation"? Or am I missing the point?

    Second question: where do Google Play Services live? Are they basically an app that lives on top of the OS (and it's "userland") and relies on ART, like all others? Or does it have deeper reach and special access to the kernel and/or the userland rendering machines (that would have no equivalent in the QNX set-up)?
    I would assume that Google wouldn't like an faux-Android that cripples its services, since that's kind of in important element in their business model.
    08-23-15 11:33 AM
  12. extisis's Avatar
    Glad hypervisor was brought back in.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    and back out it goes.
    08-23-15 12:29 PM
  13. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    Interesting think piece.

    Legally speaking, though, what is different about this QNX set-up from the Tizen en Sailfish examples? Both appear identical in the sense they are Android 'derivatives'. To clarify, is your argument that since it would "look like Android and act like Android", Google would let it pass because it would not "contribute to fragmentation"? Or am I missing the point?

    Second question: where do Google Play Services live? Are they basically an app that lives on top of the OS (and it's "userland") and relies on ART, like all others? Or does it have deeper reach and special access to the kernel and/or the userland rendering machines (that would have no equivalent in the QNX set-up)?
    I would assume that Google wouldn't like an faux-Android that cripples its services, since that's kind of in important element in their business model.
    1. More than "look like Android and act like Android", it's about using the Google Launcher front and center, with some tweaks to accommodate peak, flow and the Hub. An Android APK. All relevant tweaks are hidden from view, in this scenario.

    This goes far beyond what Tizen or Sailfish developers are going to swallow.

    Also, there's the political argument: Tizen was made because Samsung wants to relinquish control of its phones, *from* Google, so an agreement with Google in that scenario is anathema. In Sailfish the argument began political (all Sailfish devs are FOSS veterans and so they want to open up everything, except Silica and the Sailfish launcher [Silica is the UI library, think about Cascades in BB10] ), and now is GEOPOLITICAL (a month ago a deal was reached between Jolla and the Russian government, so Russia will promote and use Sailfish and the Yandex services; it's quite logical to see why Putin doesn't want to be close to Google)

    2. GPS is an app. If you have a valid Android license, you can install Google Play in Android 2.3 or higher, and this is even possible through Android Market (when you upgrade Android Market to Google Play Store, the upgrade process can install Google Play Services as needed). It sits above the ART and inside the sandbox.

    BTW, do not confuse the userland (libraries that are needed to run Android like bionic; the display engine SurfaceFlinger, the audio library AudioFlinger, and system daemons) with apps running inside the sandbox. If you see Android as a full operating system, you might confuse yourself. See Android as a gigantic program running inside the Google userland, that can run applets.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    Last edited by Alejandro Nova; 08-23-15 at 02:11 PM.
    SirQ likes this.
    08-23-15 02:00 PM
  14. Thud Hardsmack's Avatar
    Not the point

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    Point is I want to know if his theory is based on factual knowledge or cobbled together from prejudiced assumptions. Earlier he mentioned Linux succeeds as server software because of free drivers, which is also mistaken. So yes, I will question.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    08-23-15 02:35 PM
  15. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    Post 1: no facts here, only speculation.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    08-23-15 02:36 PM
  16. Benjamin Black's Avatar
    Interesting think piece.

    Legally speaking, though, what is different about this QNX set-up from the Tizen en Sailfish examples? Both appear identical in the sense they are Android 'derivatives'. To clarify, is your argument that since it would "look like Android and act like Android", Google would let it pass because it would not "contribute to fragmentation"? Or am I missing the point?

    Second question: where do Google Play Services live? Are they basically an app that lives on top of the OS (and it's "userland") and relies on ART, like all others? Or does it have deeper reach and special access to the kernel and/or the userland rendering machines (that would have no equivalent in the QNX set-up)?
    I would assume that Google wouldn't like an faux-Android that cripples its services, since that's kind of in important element in their business model.
    Tizen and sailfish both use the Linux kernel.
    QNX is a proprietary kernel that blackberry controls and signs with their own signing key. The Linux kernel is open source, making it possible to find privilege escalation exploits that allow you to gain root access to the device.

    GPS is a service meaning it runs headless in the background and is essentially an API that applications can tap into and utilize in order to make things that would typically be very complex and require lots of coding as simple as a 1 line API call.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    gvs1341 likes this.
    08-23-15 09:02 PM
  17. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    Tizen and sailfish both use the Linux kernel.
    QNX is a proprietary kernel that blackberry controls and signs with their own signing key. The Linux kernel is open source, making it possible to find privilege escalation exploits that allow you to gain root access to the device.

    Posted via BlackBerry Passport Silver Edition
    Linux is MORE secure because of its open source nature, not less. Security through obscurity is the biggest lie on Earth, and closed source software get compromised more than open source software (just look at Windows!). It's just the Google sandbox system is unsafe. S**t like this shouldn't be able to even RUN on a properly configured sandbox, and the fact it runs (no, forbidding it in the Google Play Store isn't a solution) is quite troubling.

    SELinux Mode Changer APK (1.5M) - Download SELinux Mode Changer 1.2 APK for Android

    It looks like (I'm going full speculation) BlackBerry has used hardware to protect its boot sequence from START TO END, something nobody else does, you know, for cost reasons. When you turn on your BlackBerry, your device key (I'm again speculating) decrypts the boot loader. Your device key is a hardware key, unique, stored in your TPM chip, validated by BlackBerry before your phone reaches your hands, and linked to your PIN number. The decrypted boot loader contains the BlackBerry key used to decrypt on the fly all your system images. Your BlackBerry has a slow boot because it doesn't load the operating system, it decrypts all of it on the fly and leaves all of it in memory. This is a SOUND design, and nothing can beat a good design.

    The only way to crack this, is to get an electronic microscope and watch the 1s and 0s in your TPM chip. And, if you root one BlackBerry, you will have to endure the same pain to root your second BlackBerry, and your third one. Just don't expect "One-Click Root" buttons.

    Do you REALLY believe any Android manufacturer wants to do something like this to protect a boot sequence? They a) have the keys stored in software, b) don't really encrypt anything in the boot process, c) don't have enough RAM to fully store Android on memory and so, don't encrypt their images for performance and cost reasons, d) have massive holes in their firmware, or e) a combination of the above. They don't care. They sold you the phone, they have your money, and the only people who really are interested in securing your phone are the phone carriers who want to restrict you and to force feed you load after load of bloatware. So there you have the need to become root, and even the right to become root. Systems like Knox, who focu on punishing users instead of really facing the problem, don't work and can't work either.
    08-23-15 09:55 PM
  18. Uzi's Avatar


    What you think it's running alejandro?
    Pure android?

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

    Skip to min 5
    08-23-15 10:00 PM
  19. 00stryder's Avatar


    What you think it's running alejandro?
    Pure android?

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

    Skip to min 5
    Well... Wow. Wish I learned how to speak Portuguese.

    Posted via CB10
    08-23-15 10:09 PM
  20. thurask's Avatar


    What you think it's running alejandro?
    Pure android?

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

    Skip to min 5
    Looks pure, although I do believe I spotted evidence of grsecurity at around the 8:49 mark?

    Posted via CB10
    08-23-15 10:11 PM
  21. 00stryder's Avatar
    Grsecurity?

    Posted via CB10
    08-23-15 10:31 PM
  22. thurask's Avatar
    Grsecurity?

    Posted via CB10
    Android Secured.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grsecurity

    Posted via CB10
    00stryder likes this.
    08-23-15 10:38 PM
  23. MichaelBlackbourn's Avatar


    What you think it's running alejandro?
    Pure android?

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

    Skip to min 5
    Looks sweet. This would make me consider a passport and dials up my interest in the slider even more.
    08-23-15 10:47 PM
  24. Neromanceres's Avatar
    How about another wild and speculative theory.

    Future Android will be developed on a qnx based kernel. Alphabet inc. will purchase Blackberry and keep it as a separate Canadian based subsidiary.
    Munx likes this.
    08-23-15 11:24 PM
  25. Alejandro Nova's Avatar


    What you think it's running alejandro?
    Pure android?

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

    Skip to min 5
    Specifically that phone: Android 5.1, stock, no addons, with Linux kernel and nothing else. However, that doesn't say much: the guy clearly states there are only 4 prototypes in the world with this setup, that he got this phone from Canada, and he *hopes* to see BlackBerry with Android.

    After the images I saw of the N9 and Lumia 800 running Jelly Bean stock, nothing amazes me.
    08-24-15 01:03 AM
153 12345 ...

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