Built for Business - Learn more about BlackBerry KEY2
09-08-15 10:31 PM
153 123 ...
tools
  1. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    Time for speculation, time for entirely baseless speculation. This is completely devoid of facts, but it's another interesting thesis, since the Hypervisor theory was all but discarded.

    As you know, Android is made of Linux + Google userland (bionic + SurfaceFlinger + AudioFlinger + other things) + ART and sandbox + APPS. The MADA you love (watch it here: http://www.benedelman.org/docs/htc-mada.pdf) has a laundry list of conditions that must be fulfilled by the manufacturer, like putting Google search front and center, installing some Google apps, passing the Android Compatibility Test and the f) letter in the 2.2 point, License Grant Restrictions: "(f) take any aclfons that may cause or result in the fragmentation of Android, including but not limited to the distribution by Company of a software development kit (SDK) derived from Android or derived from Android Compatible Devices and Company shall-not assist or encourage any third party to distribute a software development kit (SDK) derived from Android, or derived from Android Compatible Devices" (emphasis by me).

    As you know, no mobile manufacturer who wants to run Android, not even the mighty Samsung, has a kernel. Citing only operating systems with Android runtimes:
    - Tizen is Linux + Linux userland (glibc + Wayland + PulseAudio) + Enlightenment Foundation Libraries + Tizen apps + Android compatibility libraries.
    - Sailfish is Linux + Linux userland (glibc + Wayland + PulseAudio) + Qt 5 + Sailfish apps + Android runtime.

    As I said: no one has a kernel. No one, except BlackBerry.

    There is nothing in the MADA that prevents BlackBerry from shipping this: QNX Neutrino + QNX userland and display engine + ART (ported to QNX userland) + Android Apps. If you want to comply with MADA you only have to a) put Google Apps front and center; b) comply with the Android Compatibility Tests.

    If you get outside help from Google to do b) and happily agree to comply with a), then you have an Android that is not Android, but looks like Android and acts like Android. SELinux is replaced with the QNX sandboxing system; Qt and BlackBerry apps can run side by side with Google's, and you have QNX extra security. It's like installing Qt side by side with Windows interface libraries, or running Qt and GTK apps in Linux.

    This could have unsuspected consequences, since QNX is controlled by BlackBerry, unlike Linux, who is controlled by the Linux Foundation and Linus Torvalds himself.
    08-21-15 10:51 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Interesting....

    But I think we are past the wild speculation point now..... sometimes the simpler solution, is the best solution.
    08-21-15 10:58 AM
  3. Uzi's Avatar
    Interesting read..

    PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.2339

    Edit : anything about 10.3.3 on slider?
    08-21-15 11:00 AM
  4. Mataras's Avatar
    To good to be true

    Posted via Z30
    08-21-15 11:31 AM
  5. lawguyman's Avatar
    Look at the Definition of "Device" in the MADA. It's says the the device to which the license is given runs "only" Android.


    Posted via CB10
    08-21-15 11:46 AM
  6. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    The second part of this theory.

    Linux succeeds in servers because there are Free drivers for everything. As Free drivers, I mean Free as in freedom, not free as in price (GPL2, developed in tandem with the kernel itself). Intel has a team making Free drivers for Intel chipsets. Even graphics are covered. Those drivers have slightly less features than proprietary drivers, but not by much, and in lots of cases, the gap is nonexistent.

    That means: when Linux 4.2 is released, servers can update to it easily. Of course, a new kernel means bugfixes, sometimes lots of them, and also security fixes. An out of the box install of Fedora is quite secure.

    However, the painting is not so rosy on the mobile side of things. Vital components like radios, cameras, have only binary drivers, and, since Linux is not designed for binary drivers, those kernels must be frozen in time, freezing security vulnerabilities and privilege escalation bugs with them. That's why Android is insecure and so difficult to patch (well, one of the reasons)

    Since BlackBerry owns QNX, writes the drivers for QNX, and has signed every NDA needed to give proper support for the hardware running in our BlackBerries, BlackBerry can update the kernel whenever it wants. No frozen vulnerabilities. No holes. No privilege escalation. More, and this is the key word, security.

    Let's call this, Secured Android by BlackBerry. Now we have a product.

    The fact is: if Secured Android by BlackBerry works, then there will be customers in line. Not people like you or me, but companies like Samsung. Now we have a strategy. Samsung can install only the Android part and BlackBerry can publish the BlackBerry 10 apps as added services, or even license them.

    A product. A strategy. Just what I would expect from someone like John Chen.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    08-21-15 12:08 PM
  7. Randal Yandal's Avatar
    I officially back this theory for nomination in the crackberry riding.

    Z30 (10.3.1)
    AdamThatsIt likes this.
    08-21-15 12:17 PM
  8. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    Look at the Definition of "Device" in the MADA. It's says the the device to which the license is given runs "only" Android.


    Posted via CB10
    However, the MADA doesn't say what *is* Android, and, as you can see, the definition of what *is* Android is quite bendable by mutual agreement, with some caveats relating to business interests.

    Business-wise Google has no interest in force feeding BlackBerry Linux and the Google userland (those are costs for Google, not assets). BlackBerry, on the other hand, has no interest in keeping a specific map engine or a search engine. This is not the Acer case. Acer didn't have a kernel to defend either.

    As for the "only": that could be negotiated. And I've detailed what BlackBerry can do for Google here.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    Last edited by Alejandro Nova; 08-21-15 at 12:55 PM.
    08-21-15 12:19 PM
  9. lawguyman's Avatar
    I admit that I have thought about this and think it is a good idea if BlackBerry can get away with it. I just don't think BlackBerry can get away with it. On the other hand, as long as it is completely compatible as passes all the tests why would Google care? My guess is that even if it would be allowed, it would be too hard technically for BlackBerry to pull off.

    Posted via CB10
    southlander likes this.
    08-21-15 03:56 PM
  10. Hello Blackberry World's Avatar
    I wont talk too much about the validity of your theory. I will say one thing. A statement from my contact said something interesting which they wouldn't elaborate on. "Google wasn't happy that it didn't look android enough". I believe the silver passport was suppose to have Android on it but didn't because of this. If it was stock android there wouldn't be question about how android it was. The fact that Blackberry needed to make changes to the OS tells me that there is something different about the OS version.
    08-21-15 04:11 PM
  11. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    I like your ideas. To me, it seems so backwards to go to Android with its monolithic kernel and all the problems with having so much in it that could break and affect stability and security, when QNX and it's microkernel architecture just seems so much better. This could truly be the "better Android than Android" if implemented this way.

    Imagine if Android 6.0 has QNX at the core across the board as part of a cross-licensing deal. Probably not likely but it'd be great for BB and Android in general.
    gfondeur and ayngling like this.
    08-21-15 04:30 PM
  12. lawguyman's Avatar
    I don't think Google cares what the U.I. looks like.

    That's kind of the point of Android. Some Google approved devices have very different user interfaces. Xiaomi has an interface that is just like iOS.


    Posted via CB10
    08-21-15 04:30 PM
  13. deptech's Avatar
    This is a great read, and I suspect will go viral in this forum. I believe Blackberry is up to something innovative with respect to Android, and this could be it!
    08-21-15 04:38 PM
  14. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    This is entirely possible since we've seen android car run on top of QNX instead of Linux at times.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2339
    nick13b and Avenzuno like this.
    08-21-15 04:38 PM
  15. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    I admit that I have thought about this and think it is a good idea if BlackBerry can get away with it. I just don't think BlackBerry can get away with it. On the other hand, as long as it is completely compatible as passes all the tests why would Google care? My guess is that even if it would be allowed, it would be too hard technically for BlackBerry to pull off.

    Posted via CB10
    Why would it be too hard? It's already been done. QNX as a kernel for Android has been done.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2339
    jojo beaconsfield likes this.
    08-21-15 04:40 PM
  16. Hello Blackberry World's Avatar
    I don't think Google cares what the U.I. looks like.

    That's kind of the point of Android. Some Google approved devices have very different user interfaces. Xiaomi has an interface that is just like iOS.
    Posted via CB10
    You are referring to the over layer that companies put on top of Android. I am talking about the stock android OS which is the same on all devices that have the same OS number.
    08-21-15 04:50 PM
  17. lawguyman's Avatar
    Why would it be too hard? It's already been done. QNX as a kernel for Android has been done.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.2.2339
    [citation]?



    Posted via CB10
    08-21-15 06:46 PM
  18. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    I wont talk too much about the validity of your theory. I will say one thing. A statement from my contact said something interesting which they wouldn't elaborate on. "Google wasn't happy that it didn't look android enough". I believe the silver passport was suppose to have Android on it but didn't because of this. If it was stock android there wouldn't be question about how android it was. The fact that Blackberry needed to make changes to the OS tells me that there is something different about the OS version.
    What you said is a bigger leak than everything @evleaks has published so far...

    Your comment means: I'm not that far from reality. Now here things begin to become REALLY interesting.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    Last edited by Alejandro Nova; 08-21-15 at 07:58 PM.
    gfondeur likes this.
    08-21-15 07:15 PM
  19. Hello Blackberry World's Avatar
    What you said is a bigger leak than everything @evleaks has published so far...

    Your comment means: I'm not that far from reality. Now here things begin to become REALLY interesting.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    Well @evleaks is factual ( based on evidence). What I am taking about is hearsay which is based on my interpretation of both his words and your comments. I wouldn't have normally put that together but still it is speculation.

    Posted via CB10
    08-21-15 08:13 PM
  20. 00stryder's Avatar
    Imagine if Android 6.0 has QNX at the core across the board as part of a cross-licensing deal. Probably not likely but it'd be great for BB and Android in general.
    Could you imagine what it would mean if BlackBerry (and really, Chen) pulled this off? It would give BlackBerry one thing that the other OEMs lack, and that's a piece of the Android software. By extension, any money Google makes through Android software, BlackBerry would too, to a degree. Where I could see this coming into play is offering the QNX-based Android to enterprises and companies as a service, thus maintaining BlackBerry's revenue in that sector and, with BES12 covering the network, essentially covering security from the very core of the device all the way to the network communication. It would be as close as getting companies to commit to BB10-only mobile fleets as you could get without actually selling the devices. I think this is brilliant, if true.

    OP, I think this is probably the best option for BlackBerry to remain alive/relevant. Honestly, even with the chatter about the Slider and the potential for it to be Android-based, if it's just running what is currently "Android," it might sell well enough to gain respectability but it won't bring BlackBerry back into the average consumer's mind. And it still would expose BlackBerry to the same pitfalls that the other Android OEMs are facing with decreasing revenue. This theory though would essentially allow BlackBerry to sell devices at a loss, like Google, knowing they'll make up for it for every device running this new security-focused version of Android, even if the hardware is not "built by BlackBerry." Could the Slider be just as much a demo to us consumers/fanboys as it is to other OEMs interested in a legitimate foray into the security sector?

    I really want this to be true, and it's very exciting to think that it plays perfectly into Chen's cryptic messages about "taking BlackBerry back to its core of what it does best," but it would certainly have to mean that they were thinking about this very idea several months ago or even almost immediately into the beginning of Chen's tenure as CEO. Not saying that's not what's happened exactly, just hard to say for sure.

    Posted via CB10
    08-21-15 10:37 PM
  21. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    In fact, if you check the Android runtime in your BB10 phone with App Ops, you'll notice the entire AOSP is there, just disabled or neutered.

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    gfondeur and nick13b like this.
    08-21-15 11:18 PM
  22. Marcin Dabrowsky's Avatar
    Alejandro Nova for President.

    Posted via Silver Passport.
    gfondeur likes this.
    08-21-15 11:27 PM
  23. Alejandro Nova's Avatar
    LOL

    Wide vision, from Chile.
    08-21-15 11:36 PM
  24. thurask's Avatar
    Well, at least you didn't say hypervisor.

    Posted via CB10
    08-22-15 12:13 AM
  25. OneofLittleHarmony's Avatar
    .... this doesn't have the word hypervisor in it enough.

    Edit: thursk thought the same thing. Never mind.
    08-22-15 12:38 AM
153 123 ...

Similar Threads

  1. A Conspiracy Theory Group
    By PWY888 in forum Discover BBM Groups
    Replies: 36
    Last Post: 05-14-16, 09:03 PM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 08-21-15, 07:00 AM
  3. Is it okay to buy another BlackBerry?
    By dreamz_gaurav in forum Ask a Question
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 08-18-15, 07:25 PM
  4. Microphone being used by another app ??
    By Mr Bigs in forum BlackBerry Passport
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 08-17-15, 11:00 PM
  5. Another Happy Blackberry Ending
    By HereticHermit in forum BlackBerry Passport
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 08-16-15, 01:07 AM
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD