[KingOfQwerty]

This. Chen never advertised bb10 devices and never showed any enthusiasm on any device launch. Not even for the Priv. He is a CEO that comes across as not believing in his products.

Absolutely.

Believe in your product. Marketing 101.

Now it is clear why Vivek left BB.

[Johnny Dollar]

I think it will be the Android Passport - March/2016.

Posted via CB10

[Mr4aces]

For me, it all seems, "throw on the wall and see what sticks"
Even after poor sales, hardware is still 40%. He just can't abandon it and need cash flow coming out of it. If Priv wins, BB (whole or handset division) is also better positioned for buyouts from potential buyers.
Marketing, Developers relationship are two places, where Chen never gave a chance for BB10.
And who will buy an OS and device when its CEO says negative about profitability of it.

Really. So that is what you think executives do? Throw stuff at the wall with no research committee? No opinions from some of the top people in their field? No input from share holders? Chen is a CEO not an owner in small business. Here's a link if you don't know, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_executive_officer


PIN 2COF829A

[sorinv]

It's called disarray. It has happened to many companies with their CEO and their entire board panicking.

It happens in sport, too. Look at Chelsea FC now. Look at Brazil in the Football World Cup last year.


Look at Nortel which was 110 years old, much bigger and much more important than BlackBerry. It too, was strategic to US governments' communications networks.
Hence it was broken in three and the critical two parts were sold to two obscure US companies: Aiwa and Ciena.

Without having to go into conspiracy theories, I would argue the entire BlackBerry board was losing it once, after only 6 months from the launch of BB10, they decided it was game over and announced the company was for sale.

Since then, they kept changing the message and looked like a headless chicken.

Priv is another example of that. It half makes sense...

All these mishaps were promptly noted here in the crackberry forums when they occurred . It's not hindsight 20-20.

You could argue that nobody here is a better CEO than Chen, but the bad outcomes of Chen's decisions were well predicted at the time those decisions were made public.

It's true, there were no obviously easy solutions and we don't know if other decisions would have made the situation better....

[joshua_sx1]

I believe, there is no conspiracy but plain business 101.

Any company will hire and appoint CEO based on his credentials, qualifications and experiences as previous CEO - and not because he loves and using the product.

Chen was initially hired as temporary CEO and later on becomes full pledge CEO with only one main objective i.e. to make the company profitable.

Any competitive CEO would do the same approach. Try to make the company profitable on its present line of products and available resources. And have a contingency plan as a backup plan.

We always criticising the lack of marketing plan and execution of BlackBerry. But this is also requires resources. As competent CEO, I believe that Chen knew the importance of marketing plan and execution. But if you are given limited resources, you have to do prioritisation and set aside some aspects - no matter how important they are. Chen has been crushed with this limitation. He has to prioritise research and production. He needs 'research' to know the other options of the company as contingency plan. But at the same time, he needs to produce based on the company current available products and resources. Unfortunately, he has to set aside other aspect such as 'marketing' to lessen the companys' business risk.

It will be probably hard for us to understand that but 'Priv' will tell us how competent JC is...

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[KingOfQwerty]

Really. So that is what you think executives do? Throw stuff at the wall with no research committee? No opinions from some of the top people in their field? No input from share holders? Chen is a CEO not an owner in small business. Here's a link if you don't know, https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_executive_officer


PIN 2COF829A

At MWC, slider was shown with a dummy BB10 screen, and now we know it is running Android. To me, it shows how clueless they are.
And CEOs too can ruin a business, if they don't believe in their product.

[KingOfQwerty]

We always criticising the lack of marketing plan and execution of BlackBerry. But this is also requires resources. As competent CEO, I believe that Chen knew the importance of marketing plan and execution. But if you are given limited resources, you have to do prioritisation and set aside some aspects - no matter how important they are. Chen has been crushed with this limitation. He has to prioritise research and production. He needs 'research' to know the other options of the company as contingency plan. But at the same time, he needs to produce based on the company current available products and resources. Unfortunately, he has to set aside other aspect such as 'marketing' to lessen the companys' business risk.

Sorry, IMHO, in today's hyper competitive -almost every device is same- mobile device market, marketing does matters. It is right there in product life cycle. Cutting it citing cost concerns, is one of the biggest mistake Chen had done.

But hoping, he won't do the same to Priv.

[cgk]

Sorry, IMHO, in today's hyper competitive -almost every device is same- mobile device market, marketing does matters. It is right there in product life cycle. Cutting it citing cost concerns, is one of the biggest mistake Chen had done.

But hoping, he won't do the same to Priv.

I'm not sure why people think without a advertising and promotions budget that this will sell better than previous phones - there is a reason its four Ps (Place, Price, Product, Promotion) - BBRY's adaptation of the three Ps hasn't work so far..

[gregstaa]

So, no. Android was never the plan. It's just an opportunistic throw of the dice to gain Chen enough time & money to complete the transition to software.

Not quite, Android was actually a legit plan at the point of BB10. From my understanding there were 2 options BlackBerry had come up with...
1) switch to android at an estimated cost of around $6bn. High risk, high investment, no turning back. (Keep in mind this was before the launch of BB10)
2) commit to and develop / rollout BB10

When Thor took the stage to unveil the Z & Q and BB10, he made a particular comment. From memory it went something like "you can develop an OS all you want but at some point you need to draw a line and stop that development to start building the OS out".also he claimed bb10 would represent the next 10 years of BlackBerry. What this said to me was that BB10 was no where near finished and they knew that but it needed to be out in the wild asap. And there are a lot of people who believe Thors job was to cut the workforce stop some initial bleeding and launch BB10. These things I believe he did. But the phones didn't sell and to be honest I don't think he had at all any control or say as to how that was going to play out.

Soooo my guess is that they couldn't afford to switch to android at the time. So they took what they could from BB10 and used it as a stepping stone to buy some time to get to the point where they can transition to Android without abruptly upsetting the company, it's customers, and it's business operations. Chen might not have been on the board at the time those conversations were had early in the piece, But you need a fall guy to do the dirty work and bye some time (Heinz) then you put the turnaround specialist to task and he charges ahead with the transition to android that was an original plan. (but not viable at the time) .



Posted via CB10

[adonesc]

Something tells me his plan is to rid BlackBerry of its biggest problem...the hardware division. The DingleBerry Perv is a last ditch attempt to placate hardcore BlackBerry loyalists...that "see we are still trying...even Android...this is how committed we still are to devices..."

Which is of course a big load of bull...you can just see Chen attempt to weasel his way out of the hardware business...

Cartman says: Screw you guys I'm going home!

[JeepBB]

Not quite, Android was actually a legit plan at the point of BB10. From my understanding there were 2 options BlackBerry had come up with...
1) switch to android at an estimated cost of around $6bn. High risk, high investment, no turning back. (Keep in mind this was before the launch of BB10)
2) commit to and develop / rollout BB10

When Thor took the stage to unveil the Z & Q and BB10, he made a particular comment. From memory it went something like "you can develop an OS all you want but at some point you need to draw a line and stop that development to start building the OS out".also he claimed bb10 would represent the next 10 years of BlackBerry. What this said to me was that BB10 was no where near finished and they knew that but it needed to be out in the wild asap. And there are a lot of people who believe Thors job was to cut the workforce stop some initial bleeding and launch BB10. These things I believe he did. But the phones didn't sell and to be honest I don't think he had at all any control or say as to how that was going to play out.

Soooo my guess is that they couldn't afford to switch to android at the time. So they took what they could from BB10 and used it as a stepping stone to buy some time to get to the point where they can transition to Android without abruptly upsetting the company, it's customers, and it's business operations. Chen might not have been on the board at the time those conversations were had early in the piece, But you need a fall guy to do the dirty work and bye some time (Heinz) then you put the turnaround specialist to task and he charges ahead with the transition to android that was an original plan. (but not viable at the time) .

I agree with the first part of your post, but the last part is a bit of a stretch.

The "go with Android, or go with BB's in-house OS" decision made by MikeL/JimB has been much discussed hereabouts. And, as you say, BB went for BB10 as the cheaper/faster alternative. Hindsight is perfect of course, but that BB10 decision has almost killed BB along the way. However, I firmly believe that BB10 over Android was a one-time decision made back in 2010 (IIRC) and I doubt very much if BB kept Android on the back-burner as a Plan B. BB10 wasn't just Plan A for BB, it was the only plan!

You probably know that originally BB10 was supposed to contain a "BBOS runtime" to try and bring along their existing BBOS subscriber base - their failure to do that, and to effectively abandon all of their existing users in the hope of attracting new users to BB10 was IMO probably their stupidest decision - and meant they started from zero instead of transitioning their 80M BBOS users to the BB10 platform.

I also agree BB10 wasn't complete at launch. OS10.0 was full of bugs and holes and clearly wasn't ready for prime-time... but had to ship anyway. Thor had already delayed the launch by 6-months (it was expected in October '12, but didn't arrive until February '13). Thor's comment merely confirms that BB realised that if they delayed the BB10 launch until it actually was ready, nobody would be waiting to buy it when it finally came out. Had Thor waited and released a Z10 running 10.2.1 (a pretty complete OS) - a full year after the original delay - it would have been DOA. So Thor shipped Z10/10.0 in February, knowing it wasn't finished, but knowing that to wait longer was suicidal for the prospects of BB10/Z10 sales.

Android still wasn't Plan B by this point either. BB had inherited the Android runtime from the Playbook OS, and I'm sure it was regarded merely as a neat way of filling the App-gap until native BB10 Apps appeared. BB10 was it - it wasn't a stepping stone to anywhere! BB tried really, really hard to get Apps for BB10 - and BB tried everything to build the ecosystem.

It didn't work and, with BB on the ropes (for sale and facing huge losses) Thor left, and Chen arrived and proceed to cut as much as he could to stop the bleeding and transition BB to a software & services company. Early on, he made two statements: 1) that the hardware side of BB was unprofitable, and 2) that unprofitable parts of the business wouldn't be retained. The writing was on the wall for Hardware from that point on.

Chen is a business-man - he's neither stupid nor sentimental. I'm sure he has no love for BB10, given what it's cost BB. He likely has no love for Android either. His transition plan to BB becoming a software company can only be accomplished if he has the money to complete it, which is why Android is back on the table. I'm sure he was hoping that he wouldn't need it, but it shows what a good CEO he really is that he had people working on putting Android on BB hardware to give him that Plan B option. Apparently BB have had Android running on the Passport for months now, and the (previously BB10, and much more mainstream) Priv has been chosen as the vehicle to get Chen the revenue he needs to complete the software transition.

At which point, Chen the businessman will look at whether Hardware is still unprofitable... give it an appreciative nod at having "saved" his software transition, and unsentimentally close the Hardware division down.

TL, DR; Switching to Android (from the start) was never Chen's plan.

[kthhrrsn]

If you take away the physical keyboard from the Priv what then sets it apart from any of the hundreds of other Android devices out there already? The more likely move would to release a Passport or Classic form factor Android device.

I think the other differentiators, removing the PKB, are security and improved usability (BlackBerry virtual kb & hub).

Posted from my BlackBerry Passport on CB10

[Fernando Martin]

NOPE.

It's a sincere effort to make the Handsets division viable for the foreseeable future. The theory that Chen is trying to kill handsets by switching to Android is nutty in the extreme, no offense.

If he was trying to kill hardware, he never would have allowed a BB Android device to be released. *OR* he would have released a half arsed hardware variant that was klonky from the onset.

Look around the Android forums. There's genuine excitement for the device.

Your theory is half-baked, not the Priv.

Agreed.

It is nothing but speculation with no real hard facts that bb is going to kill hardware or bb10 for that matter. The evidence, for example, about bb10, is circumstancial at best. Until bb says they are going to do it, we will not know for sure.

[skibnik]

I think the other differentiators, removing the PKB, are security and improved usability (BlackBerry virtual kb & hub).

Posted from my BlackBerry Passport on CB10

Most Android users don't care or worry about security issues as much as Blackberry users do, there are so many different Android devices available that at the moment its all about specs and visual appeal. So yes the Hub and virtual kb etc are nice features but they are not on the forefront of what an average Android user looks for in making a decision on what device they want to purchase.

[6stringriffs]

This pretty much settles the debate. It's been in the works for 2 years. Chen's plan all along....

Stakes are high as BlackBerry releases its first Android smartphone

"After an ugly transition period, the Priv arrives in stores nearly two years after concepts for the device began to take shape."

EDIT: More evidence that it was Chen's Plan all along:
http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/inside-b...-with-android/

/Close Thread

[cgk]

This pretty much settles the debate. It's been in the works for 2 years. Chen's plan all along....

Stakes are high as BlackBerry releases its first Android smartphone

"After an ugly transition period, the Priv arrives in stores nearly two years after concepts for the device began to take shape."

Looking at the timings - it certainly looks like the actual death of BB10 as anything but a short-term revenue was when TH was kicked out.

[cbvinh]

This pretty much settles the debate. It's been in the works for 2 years. Chen's plan all along....

Stakes are high as BlackBerry releases its first Android smartphone

"After an ugly transition period, the Priv arrives in stores nearly two years after concepts for the device began to take shape."

EDIT: More evidence that it was Chen's Plan all along:
Inside BlackBerry's last-ditch plan to win you back with Android - CNET

/Close Thread

If these articles are to be believed on face value, then the PRIV's shift to Android began in earnest after the release of the Passport *last* year, BlackBerry will let the PRIV have 2-4 months to prove hardware sales are viable, there will be an advertising campaign in lieu of a launch event, *and* BB10 will not be abandoned.

[blueberrymerry]

Chen is throwing BB10 under the bus while pretending not to do so, exactly like how Nokia's Stephen Elop killed Symbian, Meego and Meltemi and promoted Windows Phone while those former platforms still had huge developer teams. Chen is a smart cookie because he needs to have BB supporters on his side to buy future BB products even as he's sunsetting BB10.

[Soulstream]

I agree with the first part of your post, but the last part is a bit of a stretch.

The "go with Android, or go with BB's in-house OS" decision made by MikeL/JimB has been much discussed hereabouts. And, as you say, BB went for BB10 as the cheaper/faster alternative. Hindsight is perfect of course, but that BB10 decision has almost killed BB along the way. However, I firmly believe that BB10 over Android was a one-time decision made back in 2010 (IIRC) and I doubt very much if BB kept Android on the back-burner as a Plan B. BB10 wasn't just Plan A for BB, it was the only plan!

You probably know that originally BB10 was supposed to contain a "BBOS runtime" to try and bring along their existing BBOS subscriber base - their failure to do that, and to effectively abandon all of their existing users in the hope of attracting new users to BB10 was IMO probably their stupidest decision - and meant they started from zero instead of transitioning their 80M BBOS users to the BB10 platform.

I also agree BB10 wasn't complete at launch. OS10.0 was full of bugs and holes and clearly wasn't ready for prime-time... but had to ship anyway. Thor had already delayed the launch by 6-months (it was expected in October '12, but didn't arrive until February '13). Thor's comment merely confirms that BB realised that if they delayed the BB10 launch until it actually was ready, nobody would be waiting to buy it when it finally came out. Had Thor waited and released a Z10 running 10.2.1 (a pretty complete OS) - a full year after the original delay - it would have been DOA. So Thor shipped Z10/10.0 in February, knowing it wasn't finished, but knowing that to wait longer was suicidal for the prospects of BB10/Z10 sales.

Android still wasn't Plan B by this point either. BB had inherited the Android runtime from the Playbook OS, and I'm sure it was regarded merely as a neat way of filling the App-gap until native BB10 Apps appeared. BB10 was it - it wasn't a stepping stone to anywhere! BB tried really, really hard to get Apps for BB10 - and BB tried everything to build the ecosystem.

It didn't work and, with BB on the ropes (for sale and facing huge losses) Thor left, and Chen arrived and proceed to cut as much as he could to stop the bleeding and transition BB to a software & services company. Early on, he made two statements: 1) that the hardware side of BB was unprofitable, and 2) that unprofitable parts of the business wouldn't be retained. The writing was on the wall for Hardware from that point on.

Chen is a business-man - he's neither stupid nor sentimental. I'm sure he has no love for BB10, given what it's cost BB. He likely has no love for Android either. His transition plan to BB becoming a software company can only be accomplished if he has the money to complete it, which is why Android is back on the table. I'm sure he was hoping that he wouldn't need it, but it shows what a good CEO he really is that he had people working on putting Android on BB hardware to give him that Plan B option. Apparently BB have had Android running on the Passport for months now, and the (previously BB10, and much more mainstream) Priv has been chosen as the vehicle to get Chen the revenue he needs to complete the software transition.

At which point, Chen the businessman will look at whether Hardware is still unprofitable... give it an appreciative nod at having "saved" his software transition, and unsentimentally close the Hardware division down.

TL, DR; Switching to Android (from the start) was never Chen's plan.

How was going Android cheaper or faster? Everyone was launching Android devices left and right and Android was evolving pretty fast and was getting better and better, while BB was launching BBOS devices that were not real competition to iOS or Android.

Developing your own OS is not an easy or cheap thing and BB10 was not launch ready even after 2-3 years of development. 10.2 was the first "mature" version. BB lost billions in developing BB10 that while it was a technological achievement, it was a financial disaster.

[Toodeurep]

This pretty much settles the debate. It's been in the works for 2 years. Chen's plan all along....

Stakes are high as BlackBerry releases its first Android smartphone

"After an ugly transition period, the Priv arrives in stores nearly two years after concepts for the device began to take shape."

EDIT: More evidence that it was Chen's Plan all along:
Inside BlackBerry's last-ditch plan to win you back with Android - CNET

/Close Thread

The CNET story states that Chen and the other execs had to be convinced by the incoming hardware head. So it wasn't Chen's plan all along.

"/Close Thread"

[JeepBB]

How was going Android cheaper or faster? Everyone was launching Android devices left and right and Android was evolving pretty fast and was getting better and better, while BB was launching BBOS devices that were not real competition to iOS or Android.

Developing your own OS is not an easy or cheap thing and BB10 was not launch ready even after 2-3 years of development. 10.2 was the first "mature" version. BB lost billions in developing BB10 that while it was a technological achievement, it was a financial disaster.

Oh, I agree with you - I'm sorry I wasn't clearer that I think it was a bad decision.

Developing BB10 proved to be neither cheaper nor faster (nor successful ) than going with Android... but it wasn't my decision, it was Mike & Jim who made that call. They presumably thought it was the right decision. History has proved them wrong.

My post was really to argue that Android wasn't at any time a Plan A, and wasn't Chen's original intention when he became CEO. He says he's heading for a Software&Services endgame - I believe him!

The only reason for BB Android now is to give him sufficient money to achieve that endgame.

[Soulstream]

Oh, I agree with you - I'm sorry I wasn't clearer that I think it was a bad decision.

Developing BB10 proved to be neither cheaper nor faster (nor successful ) than going with Android... but it wasn't my decision, it was Mike & Jim who made that call. They presumably thought it was the right decision. History has proved them wrong.

My post was really to argue that Android wasn't at any time a Plan A, and wasn't Chen's original intention when he became CEO. He says he's heading for a Software&Services endgame - I believe him!

The only reason for BB Android now is to give him sufficient money to achieve that endgame.

In my opinion, trying to build bb10 instead of going Android was the result of a big ego of BB leaders and the fact that ecosystems were not as developed then as they are now. Many may not agree with me, but I think going Android in 2010 would have seen BB in a much better financial situation now.

[JeepBB]

In my opinion, trying to build bb10 instead of going Android was the result of a big ego of BB leaders and the fact that ecosystems were not as developed then as they are now. Many may not agree with me, but I think going Android in 2010 would have seen BB in a much better financial situation now.

Yes, I agree with all of that.

I'm sure that Mike (in particular) had the ego to believe that he and the RIMpire could do better than that Android upstart. Guess he was wrong.

[Mr4aces]

Mike Lazaridis was brilliant. RIM/ML problem is they grew so fast that he did not surround himself with the proper people.

The executives and some key department heads in the fast growing RIM out grew their positions.

To bad ML was so arrogant to realize he needed help or listen. The BB10 was to little to late and when it did come out it was a down grade from BBOS7. That and not having a track ball killed RIM.

Instead of pouring billions into marketing and inventory they should have spent that on the development of BB10 and came out with a Bold2. With the right people and 2 billion dollars (which they had) the OS could have been anything and the greatest. It could have even been done in less than a year with a good plan.

BB10 has never been any good until the l0.2. Just look back at the 9900 threads and see why users did not switch.

There are lots of what ifs, but not going Android was not a mistake. Not doing it fast enough with key people and a plan was. Why didn't Lazaridis just start hiring top app developers and write RIM/BB10 apps? Or bought or contracted them?

Look what JC has done since his tenure. BlackBerry is buying their completion that is what smart companies do.

Yes, I know it's all hind sight, but the CFO should have been shot at sunrise allowing that type of inventory and not advising the share holders of the red flags that came up well before the mortar started decaying.

The bottom line "in my opinion" is surrounding yourself with top executives. MG he had the money to buy anyone.

RIP: RIM

"You're only known for the worst thing you do." 1978 DSO



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[bb10adopter111]

The CNET article makes it clear that Android was not Chen's idea, and that he was skeptical at first. Also that the decision time line began when the Passport sold in low quantities in Q4 of 2014, and the Amazon App Store proved inadequate in addressing the app gap.

More advertising might have helped a little, but it would not have addressed the fundamental problem of BB10, which is that people buy computing platforms for the applications and based on what other consumers choose, not based on the merits of the OS, and BB10 was too late to market to gain significant market share. Also, BlackBerry had already lost the support of carriers and retail stores like Best Buy after their losses on the Z10 and Q10.

Hardware has been unprofitable. It doesn't matter what it's revenue contribution % is. The best financial choice would have been to never build BB10 and just harvest the cash from declining BB07 service revenue until it died, while laying off everyone in hardware. The next best financial choice would have been to kill the hardware division after the Z10 and Q10 failed. If John Chen had wanted to kill hardware when he arrived, he could have done it, and the company would have been in BETTER financial shape today as a result.

BlackBerry has never mastered the retail channel, and it's unreasonable to think that they ever could have competed on an equal footing with companies like Apple and Samsung who have decades of experience in consumer retail sales. BlackBerry sold their devices directly to corporate and government IT departments. They did sell a lot of devices through retail between 2004 and 2007, but that was because of unexpected demand for smartphones by consumers and the move to BYOD in the workplace. Consumers then jumped to Apple and Android, which were both much more capable devices for everything other than the workmanlike email, calendar, tasks, and phone functions that are Blackberry's strengths.

John Chen was brought in to turn around BlackBerry the company, not BB10 and not hardware. He inherited a company that was MUCH too large for its revenue base and that had made many, many bad decisions about market strategy in handsets. He tried to continue the BB10 effort with reasonable expenditures, and discovered that the market had declining interest in the platform. Once BB10 dropped below 1% market share, he was willing to listen to those who said they could secure Android on a Blackberry phone.

Building better phones on a technically superior platform with no inherent consumer demand or channel support through carriers was a steep uphill climb. No tactical changes in phone form factors/specs/design or in marketing communications would have changed that basic calculus.

Sure they would have sold more phones by spending more money on marketing, but they would have lost even more money doing it.

Overall, I find the OP's case unconvincing, when the actual evidence has a much aim older explanation.

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