08-11-15 06:36 AM
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  1. Lithtech's Avatar
    No google at all??? Who's open source code do you think BlackBerry uses for the ANDROID Player?

    And what would you have them do... just keep watching sales fall? Have you checked the release date on half the apps in BlackBerry world?

    Change is coming... maybe it's Android, maybe it's an app only solution. But change there will be.
    RE-THINK.... what i said... your missing the point.. BIG TIME.
    07-09-15 08:14 PM
  2. KingOfQwerty's Avatar
    The rumors would, I believe, have an negative effect on current BB10 device sales, which are already weak. Some buyers, hearing these rumors, will decide against buying now and wait to see what the Android offering looks like.
    So the logic says the average consumer is not aware of BB10 thanks to BB's pathetic marketing but they somehow hear about the rumor?
    07-10-15 05:47 AM
  3. Fastmarc's Avatar
    So the logic says the average consumer is not aware of BB10 thanks to BB's pathetic marketing but they somehow hear about the rumor?
    THIS ^^^
    The only people as far as I can see who's making a big deal over this rumour is really here apart from a few articles that I doubt hit many.
    John Public doesn't know and right now doesn't care.

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-15 06:44 AM
  4. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    RE-THINK.... what i said... your missing the point.. BIG TIME.
    You don't want the NSA accessing your device.... got it.

    My point is like it or not, BlackBerry devices are not selling, they have tried eight different devices.... so I doubt the Slider is going to make much of an impact at this point. They can't afford to continue development of BB10 with sales so low without drastically changing their pricing structure to cover those cost. Now maybe they'll introduce Android, and keep a version of BB10 without the Android Player and sell those BB10 devices like KNOX and the other security solutions.... at a much higher price. Or maybe they'll just ax BB10. But they aren't going to keep going with sales still falling.... At some point it would cost more then the revenue would be worth.

    Your concerns about your security, have nothing to do with if BlackBerry can afford to continue with business as usual.
    07-10-15 07:33 AM
  5. Lithtech's Avatar
    You don't want the NSA accessing your device.... got it.

    My point is like it or not, BlackBerry devices are not selling, they have tried eight different devices.... so I doubt the Slider is going to make much of an impact at this point. They can't afford to continue development of BB10 with sales so low without drastically changing their pricing structure to cover those cost. Now maybe they'll introduce Android, and keep a version of BB10 without the Android Player and sell those BB10 devices like KNOX and the other security solutions.... at a much higher price. Or maybe they'll just ax BB10. But they aren't going to keep going with sales still falling.... At some point it would cost more then the revenue would be worth.

    Your concerns about your security, have nothing to do with if BlackBerry can afford to continue with business as usual.
    Still missing the point... bah (never mind) lol
    07-10-15 08:27 AM
  6. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    At the end of the day... blackberry should stay the hell away from google.

    This is what makes BB a win.. no google at all... no nsa sh!t lol
    Your point is pretty clear... just not sure what you want them to do?

    Stay the course with BB10 until they are forced to close the hardware business completely?

    Maybe you want them to load Windows 10 on their new devices?

    My point is they have to do something... different from what they have been doing. As great as BB10 is and as unique, powerful and secure as it is. It isn't paying the bills. And the main issue is Apps.... something that has GREATLY frustrated Mr. Chen as it is really out of his control. Last years attempt to bring the Amazon Store to BB10 has not stopped the decline in sales.
    07-10-15 08:49 AM
  7. Bbnivende's Avatar
    You don't want the NSA accessing your device.... got it.

    My point is like it or not, BlackBerry devices are not selling, they have tried eight different devices.... so I doubt the Slider is going to make much of an impact at this point. They can't afford to continue development of BB10 with sales so low without drastically changing their pricing structure to cover those cost. Now maybe they'll introduce Android, and keep a version of BB10 without the Android Player and sell those BB10 devices like KNOX and the other security solutions.... at a much higher price. Or maybe they'll just ax BB10. But they aren't going to keep going with sales still falling.... At some point it would cost more then the revenue would be worth.

    Your concerns about your security, have nothing to do with if BlackBerry can afford to continue with business as usual.
    It is unfortunate because BB10 is a really nice OS but not many consumers are interested in phone operating systems. In my view , BlackBerry needed to have come out with the slider instead of the Passport or at least an great all touch conventional phone at the same time as the Passport. A PKB centric strategy was doomed to fail. It is a good niche to be in but not for your flagship phones. Too late now.

    If I needed a PKB, I would be more attracted to a Android BlackBerry than the BB10 version. The PKB and form factor is the attraction , not the OS.

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-15 09:13 AM
  8. Lithtech's Avatar
    Your point is pretty clear... just not sure what you want them to do?

    Stay the course with BB10 until they are forced to close the hardware business completely?

    Maybe you want them to load Windows 10 on their new devices?

    My point is they have to do something... different from what they have been doing. As great as BB10 is and as unique, powerful and secure as it is. It isn't paying the bills. And the main issue is Apps.... something that has GREATLY frustrated Mr. Chen as it is really out of his control. Last years attempt to bring the Amazon Store to BB10 has not stopped the decline in sales.
    Nope... there is nothing wrong with the BBOS10... the problem is the applications for it...

    your right it frustrated chen' so why doesn't he do something about it? not take the easy road and slap on android..... chen needs to reach out to the developers.
    07-10-15 09:36 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    It is unfortunate because BB10 is a really nice OS but not many consumers are interested in phone operating systems. In my view , BlackBerry needed to have come out with the slider instead of the Passport or at least an great all touch conventional phone at the same time as the Passport. A PKB centric strategy was doomed to fail. It is a good niche to be in but not for your flagship phones. Too late now.

    If I needed a PKB, I would be more attracted to a Android BlackBerry than the BB10 version. The PKB and form factor is the attraction , not the OS.

    Posted via CB10
    The Passport was already designed....

    Now there were some all touch devices that could have been released. But I'm not sure Chen didn't go with the Passport just as a marketing gimmick. It's clear that he didn't really expect sales to be overly high. Would he have gotten the "press" on a 5.5" all touch device with similar specs? Would it have sold any better?

    It would be very interesting to know what Chen's "PLAN" is and how long its been in operation.
    07-10-15 09:41 AM
  10. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Nope... there is nothing wrong with the BBOS10... the problem is the applications for it...

    your right it frustrated chen' so why doesn't he do something about it? not take the easy road and slap on android..... chen needs to reach out to the developers.
    The time to reach out to developers was back before the launch, when the platform had potential. There were some that were expecting BlackBerry to sell 20 - 40 million device that first year. But now that the userbase is only 10 million and shrinking... I doubt you could pay a big developer to even accept a meeting from Chen. And pretty sure Chen mentioned he tried.

    At this point I don't think Android is the easy road for Chen... it's just the best of the bad options he has available.

    It is sad to see all the potential that BB10 had to go to waste... but too be honest we don't know what will really happen yet.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    07-10-15 09:55 AM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The Passport was already designed....

    Now there were some all touch devices that could have been released. But I'm not sure Chen didn't go with the Passport just as a marketing gimmick. It's clear that he didn't really expect sales to be overly high. Would he have gotten the "press" on a 5.5" all touch device with similar specs? Would it have sold any better?

    It would be very interesting to know what Chen's "PLAN" is and how long its been in operation.
    I guess you are right. Chen or his advisors were of the view that Legacy owners / Enterprise would come on board with the Classic. The Leap was a back up plan.

    Perhaps Chen thought of the Passport as PKB phablet. It is big but it is wide and a 4.5 inch screen is a 4.5 inch screen. They would have done better with mimicking what others do. A 5.5 inch large and a 4.7 to 5 inch small VKB. Each with good specs.

    I guess the Slider is meant to cover all of the bases. It will be large, PKB and VKB and have good specs. Personally, I think that the Samsung Galaxy screen size would have been best. I have tried the curved screen but I do not think the Edge works as well as the flat screen. The Samsung Galaxy size seems to be the current sweet spot in phone sizing.



    Posted via CB10
    07-10-15 11:12 AM
  12. koool1's Avatar
    Your point is pretty clear... just not sure what you want them to do?

    Stay the course with BB10 until they are forced to close the hardware business completely?

    Maybe you want them to load Windows 10 on their new devices?

    My point is they have to do something... different from what they have been doing. As great as BB10 is and as unique, powerful and secure as it is. It isn't paying the bills. And the main issue is Apps.... something that has GREATLY frustrated Mr. Chen as it is really out of his control. Last years attempt to bring the Amazon Store to BB10 has not stopped the decline in sales.
    I agree100%. BB10 doesn't have to die but doing nothing and watching handset sales decline every year isn't going to last.

    Personally as long as the things that I love about BlackBerry (Hub, keyboards, security, BBM) are there I will stick with BlackBerry.

    Windows phones are in steep decline. Windows 10 is not the way to go either.

    Posted via  BlackBerry Z30
    07-10-15 11:22 AM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I agree100%. BB10 doesn't have to die but doing nothing and watching handset sales decline every year isn't going to last.

    Personally as long as the things that I love about BlackBerry (Hub, keyboards, security, BBM) are there I will stick with BlackBerry.

    Windows phones are in steep decline. Windows 10 is not the way to go either.

    Posted via  BlackBerry Z30
    Actually Windows phones did see some growth in sales from the 4th quarter of last year to the 1st of this year, but their marketshare has decrees as they haven't kept pace with the overall markets growth. But I would not count Windows 10 out... I think you are going to see Windows 10 is going to have a HUGE number of users by the end of the year. Don't think developers will totally ignore that potential. But yes 2.7% of all of the smartphone sales is pretty bad, and will be VERY hard to overcome. Right now it is just a two OS race, and sadly BlackBerry isn't even in it. If you figure there were 380 million smartphones sold during BlackBerry's finical quarter... with only about a million units moved that is only about .002% of the sales.

    As for sticking with BlackBerry... that would depend on performance and pricing?
    What will the impact of BlackBerry's "extras" have on Android's performance?
    What will the pricing of BlackBerry's lower volume have on the devices?
    Will there be some type of subscription requirement to get the BlackBerry experience - like having to be a BES Cloud user or a corporate BES account?

    There are a lot of question, and I don't think any of us can really say what we will do.. until we know what BlackBerry is REALLY going to do.
    07-10-15 11:59 AM
  14. keithhackneysmullet's Avatar
    Nope... there is nothing wrong with the BBOS10... the problem is the applications for it...

    your right it frustrated chen' so why doesn't he do something about it? not take the easy road and slap on android..... chen needs to reach out to the developers.
    They tried to reach out to devs , but BlackBerry burned their java developers when they eol'd bbos, they burned the bb10 devs when they added the Amazon app store while telling devs to start writing android apps. Who in their right mind would actually want to develop on bb10?

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-15 04:42 PM
  15. BCITMike's Avatar
    They tried to reach out to devs , but BlackBerry burned their java developers when they eol'd bbos, they burned the bb10 devs when they added the Amazon app store while telling devs to start writing android apps. Who in their right mind would actually want to develop on bb10?

    Posted via CB10
    Burned? Who in their right mind? Well, fresh sales to new customers would be a great reason! Lots of people would be interested in being the first developer with the only feature and little competition to build name and marketshare. Are you a developer? Do you have personal insight into this, because I think that is a faulty assumption. Developers have to learn new languages and platforms regularly. Go where the customers are. Use the right tools for the job.

    Burned developerps is not the way I see it. The problem is not small developers working on small features and functionality, the problem is getting the major apps on board that work with their friends. Except major apps are going to target the biggest audiences because making an app is quite often a money losing expense and its just something to keep you part of their ecosystem, not to bring you into the system as a new customer. Ie, banking apps. They'll make zero new revenue, but they'll hope to keep you as a customer, rather than going somewhere else that does have the app.

    It's like with wifi hotspots. For years, people thought you could make tons of money off them. I don't know a single place in my local area that could charge for wifi hotspot, its expected to be free now. Adding wifi to your restaurant will costs hundreds of dollars, and its meant to prevent losing customers to competition, not gain new customers from competition. It's an expense.

    It's hard to make a really good app on multiple platforms with similar functionality. It takes devs and QA testers. Could you make hundreds of thousands of dollars back on many of these free apps to pay for a few devs and testers? All the time, I get blown away by how much a developer in Silicon Valley is paid. Recently, I was contacted by a company that does QA and development in India for hire. I thought, ok, this might mean salaries of $20k-$40k and will get more 2-3X development. Nope. It was still going to be $60k per dev. I just googled average salary in India, and yea, it should be well under $20k per dev, but unless I open an office in India (I ain't moving to India), I got to go through the consultant middle man, likely making way more than the devs do.

    I don't think a small dev would go public with their costs, earnings and effort expended, but I think that its VERY tough to make money on app sales in North America vs being a competent developer for a large company or something. Would also probably prefer the regular paychecks vs the up/down nature of app sales. The app devs now are probably the ones who prefer to work on their own, on their own time and schedule and are not really pressed for cash (ie, they live a modest life, not the sports car, boat, first class airfare, RRSP's and benefits type with 4 kids and 2 in college, etc).

    So to a small little developer living outside North America, you could probably live off BB10 sales if its a one-man shop, especially with the $10,000 promise BlackBerry made early on. But for a team of developers, working with developers on other platforms for consistent experience, need to show profits, and that's tough with so few BB10 users. $10,000 may cover 1-2 devs for 1-2 months. There are very few app companies who are profitable like Candy Crush, some are even subsidizing their apps using marketing funds, not R&D funds.

    There was also an issue with API's not being fully completed at launch, so some apps just were not possible until later, at which point the low acceptance made companies change their minds on investing the resources. I recall SiriusXM said they couldn't do a BB10 app because certain DRM features they used were not yet implemented.

    I think BlackBerry's mistake was that they didn't put out the Z10 at 10% above cost to get large market share and momentum, much like how companies will take a loss (or make no money) to build up market share, and then charge more once there is a thriving ecosystem with locked in users who put in months/years getting used to it and like it or don't want to change. There definitely would have been more developers sticking with BB10 if the number of BB10 subs were double or triple than they were early on, with increases each month to show there is momentum and increasing customer base that they'd make their money back on.
    07-10-15 05:16 PM
  16. k1rkland's Avatar
    Next quarter, BlackBerry will sell a million or so handsets. As a developer, you will have to choose to target the present, BB10 or what is assumed to be the future, Android. Apple, on the other hand, will be shipping a million iPhones per day plus iPads that run the same OS. That's not even a choice.
    07-10-15 05:50 PM
  17. koool1's Avatar
    Actually Windows phones did see some growth in sales from the 4th quarter of last year to the 1st of this year, but their marketshare has decrees as they haven't kept pace with the overall markets growth. But I would not count Windows 10 out... I think you are going to see Windows 10 is going to have a HUGE number of users by the end of the year. Don't think developers will totally ignore that potential. But yes 2.7% of all of the smartphone sales is pretty bad, and will be VERY hard to overcome. Right now it is just a two OS race, and sadly BlackBerry isn't even in it. If you figure there were 380 million smartphones sold during BlackBerry's finical quarter... with only about a million units moved that is only about .002% of the sales.

    As for sticking with BlackBerry... that would depend on performance and pricing?
    What will the impact of BlackBerry's "extras" have on Android's performance?
    What will the pricing of BlackBerry's lower volume have on the devices?
    Will there be some type of subscription requirement to get the BlackBerry experience - like having to be a BES Cloud user or a corporate BES account?

    There are a lot of question, and I don't think any of us can really say what we will do.. until we know what BlackBerry is REALLY going to do.
    I think Windows phone is dead. 7800 people gone is only one of many signs it's not going anywhere. BlackBerry 10s only saving grace is its security and maybe the qwerty. Widows has very little to lean on and the app store is empty. Windows 10 will not change that.

    Posted via  BlackBerry Z30
    07-11-15 01:45 PM
  18. BlackberryFan777's Avatar
    Your point is pretty clear... just not sure what you want them to do?

    Stay the course with BB10 until they are forced to close the hardware business completely?

    Maybe you want them to load Windows 10 on their new devices?

    My point is they have to do something... different from what they have been doing. As great as BB10 is and as unique, powerful and secure as it is. It isn't paying the bills. And the main issue is Apps.... something that has GREATLY frustrated Mr. Chen as it is really out of his control. Last years attempt to bring the Amazon Store to BB10 has not stopped the decline in sales.
    Okay, I want to be very clear here. Mr. Chen is a big part of why there's an app gap. He's gutted developer relations, cut all funding for BlackBerry dev events, preloaded a competing store on the device, and sent every signal possible he is uninterested in supporting BB10 as a platform for development. I've never even heard the guy make the case to developers, he's too busy talking about whether he'll still make devices, a conversation that is a disincentive to developers in and of itself.

    I don't think BB10 needs hundreds of thousands of mediocre apps, the android emulator can provide that. It needs dozens of killer apps with an edge. Stuff like Blend or Expess. Apps that would make people say, "I won't leave BlackBerry for Android or iOS because I want to run __." I thought Nemory was gaining the skills and Jarome Carty might have had some potential, but these were recruits to the ecosystem under Thor and it takes time. Both seem to have left under Chen. I can think of no killer app added as a result of efforts under Chen. It's been a year!

    Solution: Fire John Chen (the company is not profitable and he's failed on every front, even software, which Mike L. did better at and which Thor laid an awesome foundation for and he's squandered billions in investment that would have paid off in part by now if it weren't for complete lack of vision on his part) and relaunch development of BB10 as the mobile OS that gets IoT and has dozens of Blend apps that work as well on the road as at home. Differentiate, differentiate, differentiate. Do not try to be like Android or a phone for everyone. Offer can't go without benefits for prosumers. And bring back Mike L. for vision if not for operations.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-15 04:35 PM
  19. BlackberryFan777's Avatar
    The time to reach out to developers was back before the launch, when the platform had potential. There were some that were expecting BlackBerry to sell 20 - 40 million device that first year. But now that the userbase is only 10 million and shrinking... I doubt you could pay a big developer to even accept a meeting from Chen. And pretty sure Chen mentioned he tried.

    At this point I don't think Android is the easy road for Chen... it's just the best of the bad options he has available.

    It is sad to see all the potential that BB10 had to go to waste... but too be honest we don't know what will really happen yet.
    Chen didn't try to reach out. He did just the opposite. He cancelled developer events, cut developer relations funding, stopped devloping APIs, cancelled the upgrade to Qt5, etc., etc.

    BlackBerry didn't do all that badly at app development under Thor. In terms of quantity and quality, we were significantly ahead of both iOS and Android at launch and after the first year. But, everything stopped when Chen took over. I mean, it just came to a hault.

    Posted via CB10
    07-12-15 04:40 PM
  20. Dat Gui's Avatar
    Okay, I want to be very clear here. Mr. Chen is a big part of why there's an app gap. He's gutted developer relations, cut all funding for BlackBerry dev events, preloaded a competing store on the device, and sent every signal possible he is uninterested in supporting BB10 as a platform for development. I've never even heard the guy make the case to developers, he's too busy talking about whether he'll still make devices, a conversation that is a disincentive to developers in and of itself.

    I don't think BB10 needs hundreds of thousands of mediocre apps, the android emulator can provide that. It needs dozens of killer apps with an edge. Stuff like Blend or Expess. Apps that would make people say, "I won't leave BlackBerry for Android or iOS because I want to run __." I thought Nemory was gaining the skills and Jarome Carty might have had some potential, but these were recruits to the ecosystem under Thor and it takes time. Both seem to have left under Chen. I can think of no killer app added as a result of efforts under Chen. It's been a year!

    Solution: Fire John Chen (the company is not profitable and he's failed on every front, even software, which Mike L. did better at and which Thor laid an awesome foundation for and he's squandered billions in investment that would have paid off in part by now if it weren't for complete lack of vision on his part) and relaunch development of BB10 as the mobile OS that gets IoT and has dozens of Blend apps that work as well on the road as at home. Differentiate, differentiate, differentiate. Do not try to be like Android or a phone for everyone. Offer can't go without benefits for prosumers. And bring back Mike L. for vision if not for operations.

    Posted via CB10
    Though I do believe Chen has done a great job so far. I think the best option would have been to let Mike L. Take the company private. Just look at what happened to Dell when they went private. Also who knows more about the company that one of the guys who were there in the first place. I don't think apps are keeping people away from BlackBerry, it goes much farther than just no cut the rope.

    Posted via CB10
    bigjman likes this.
    07-13-15 07:40 AM
  21. CFFrost's Avatar
    I really hope that Chen knows what he's doing, just the speculations about Slider using Android got a lot of people angry on CB forums, losing the few people left who are BBOS fans, enterprise and "casual" users alike.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-15 06:09 AM
  22. diogoteixeira87's Avatar
    Though I do believe Chen has done a great job so far. I think the best option would have been to let Mike L. Take the company private. Just look at what happened to Dell when they went private. Also who knows more about the company that one of the guys who were there in the first place. I don't think apps are keeping people away from BlackBerry, it goes much farther than just no cut the rope.

    Posted via CB10
    I think Chen did the best someone could do in this situation. Right and fast decisions following the company demands and it's strengthens. And I don't know if Mike could be a good option for BlackBerry. He was the mind behind the rise and fall, but almost everyone remember just the fall at this moment. I'm grateful just because he created this amazing company, but he is one of the majors responsible of this situation

    Posted with Z30!
    07-15-15 07:03 AM
  23. diogoteixeira87's Avatar
    I really hope that Chen knows what he's doing, just the speculations about Slider using Android got a lot of people angry on CB forums, losing the few people left who are BBOS fans, enterprise and "casual" users alike.

    Posted via CB10
    If it's a hybrid with same functions of bb10 and benefits of android, specially play store, I think it could work. Only time will tell

    Posted with Z30!
    07-15-15 07:04 AM
  24. CFFrost's Avatar
    If it's a hybrid with same functions of bb10 and benefits of android, specially play store, I think it could work. Only time will tell

    Posted with Z30!
    In theory it sounds great but I won't be convinced of its execution until we see at least official previews

    Posted via CB10
    diogoteixeira87 likes this.
    07-15-15 11:44 AM
  25. jope28's Avatar
    If it's a hybrid with same functions of bb10 and benefits of android, specially play store, I think it could work. Only time will tell

    Posted with Z30!
    How about...
    Android version for the Android masses through carriers that push Android and the BB10 unlocked version from shopBlackBerry (carriers are horrible with BlackBerry) for those like me that just want BB10.

     Frosty White Q10/10.3.2.2339 CB10
    07-17-15 01:47 PM
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