[The_Engine]

could the company the bought have to do with help loading or transfering android apps to app world ? they way he was talking was like it made sense that they had bought them and everyone agreed hey kevin come on man give us a hint please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No company could help with that. Each Dev would have to submit their app. That's their orprett. Only thing would be capacity. But RIM has their NOC.

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[Rello]

I agree with The Engine. Google will never just grant RIM access to the Android market. lol it just wont happen, but there probably will be some sort of way for devs to easily port their apps to the new QNX OS. Kevin definitely knows more than what he's telling us ha.

RIM knows that they need a fresh start, but to completely abandon the apps they already have for their platform and start new there as well would be shooting themselves in the foot. I believe without a shadow of a doubt that there is more to the QNX OS rather than just a "new look". Honestly, I wouldn't even be surprised/disappointed if it still retained (a couple lol) familiar looks as long as it brought new features and more stability.

QNX already has apps written for it and I suspect that RIM has something up their sleeve for us. Please Jesus.........tell me i'm right.

[The_Engine]

LOL. It was data viz. So they own docs to go.

Yeah! (twirls finger in the air)

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[bek816]

Yeah there is no way you would be logging into the Android Market. Buttttt....

If the apps could be loaded up into App world with no changes, or via Mobihand or some other sideload site/method, Devs would be jumping on that. Who wouldn't want their app available to the #1/#2 market share platform in NA, for no real effort!? App World would explode overnight.

As Kevin stated between the millions of flash apps on the web, and the android apps (that might have to be uploaded or ported to BB in some way) they would be laughing at Apple's # of apps.

Not sure I think this will happen, but Kevin is more in the know, so I guess he's getting this from somewhere.

As a Side bar - any guesses as to what that acquisition was he was hinting at? I am thinking Steelthoren Software (makers of Quick Pull!)

Maybe the QNX architecture is similar to that of Android's (What is Android? | Android Developers). We know QNX makes a kernel and there will undoubtedly be a Java ME VM. If an app is Java-based, doesn't require any proprietary Android functionality, e.g. Tetris, why wouldn't it work in both? Even if the app uses Open GL, according to the Android documentation: "The specific API provided by Android is similar to the J2ME JSR239 OpenGL ES API. However, it may not be identical, so watch out for deviations.". In other words, they may be able to port it over to BlackBerry pretty quickly!

Just some thoughts....

[The_Engine]

Maybe the QNX architecture is similar to that of Android's (What is Android? | Android Developers). We know QNX makes a kernel and there will undoubtedly be a Java ME VM. If an app is Java-based, doesn't require any proprietary Android functionality, e.g. Tetris, why wouldn't it work in both? Even if the app uses Open GL, according to the Android documentation: "The specific API provided by Android is similar to the J2ME JSR239 OpenGL ES API. However, it may not be identical, so watch out for deviations.". In other words, they may be able to port it over to BlackBerry pretty quickly!

Just some thoughts....

As I understand it Android is Linux based and QNX is Unix based. So they'd be cousins. No idea what that actually means for programming. But I do think it would be a lot easier to program on that platform.

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[bek816]

The Android kernel is Linux based, but there's a JVM where the applications are run. On a side note, the Dalvik JVM is why Oracle is suing Google. Ultimately, if it doesn't need any Android specific APIs and can run on a JVM, it might in theory be able to run on a BlackBerry (Java ME VM).

[Pearl9100]

That's the first bad thing I've heard about it. Guess we will all find out soon enough. They cover it in the last Podcast and it sounds like we will see the BB tablet this holiday season. That being the case we will probably get some glimpses at Dec con in late September.

Kevin did say that he believed too coupd easily run Android Apps on a QNX based OS. If that is the case and there is some sort of emulator or the SDK allows Dev's to easily port stuff over than RIM would just win.

Guess we just wait and see what this new OS brings. We may not see it until 2011 and it may well suck. Who knows.

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The iDrive on the BMW is HORRIBLE!!!! its complicated to use and many errors happen.

[Pearl9100]

Just realized there may be confusion here. QNX doesn't run the cars as I understand it. It is running the navigation and media software in the cars. I may be wrong on that but that is my understanding.

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it does. and that stuff goes haywire.

but there are also other problems with the power seats adjusting by itself while driving, ac windows or locks not working, saved settings wiping by itself, and other things. lots of people blame it on the os.

bmw has unsuccessfully tried to perfect and optimize the qnx os. if bmw (a company that strives for perfection) failed, i can only imagine what kind of product rim will churn out. but on the flip side, bmw is not a software company, and rim is definitely more qualified to program for the qnx os. im sure their competent programs can do more than bmw can since i would assume rim has more programmers than bmw. i really hope rim works magic with the os and knocks it out of the park! we're all rooting for rim and imo i dont think rim can suffer any more dings to their reputation (for the consumer market of course. they dominate the business sector with an iron fist and they are not going any where anytime soon. thats a great plus)

[VRaptor]

android is linux based as is the new tablet i believe this is where the confusion comes from people who dont know much about copmuters just think its automaticaly the same thing

What is that, a transformer policeman?

[cplush]

===== QUOTE Pyrus ====

android is linux based as is the new tablet i believe this is where the confusion comes from people who dont know much about copmuters just think its automaticaly the same thing

===== /QUOTE ====

What??

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[TurboTiger]

I’m not a techie for please excuse my naive question.

Is the Blackpad going to be a compliment to an existing laptop/pc or will I be able to ditch my laptop and be able to perform all functions on the Blackpad.

If it’s a Qnx/Linux OS then will I be able to run all the Windows software I currently have on my laptop? More specifically, will I be able to run Outlook on it?

TIA

[The_Engine]

I�m not a techie for please excuse my naive question.

Is the Blackpad going to be a compliment to an existing laptop/pc or will I be able to ditch my laptop and be able to perform all functions on the Blackpad.

If it�s a Onx/Linux OS then will I be able to run all the Windows software I currently have on my laptop? More specifically, will I be able to run Outlook on it?

TIA

I wouldn't expect the BB tablet to replace a laptop. I think it will be more of a media based compliment. I don't think you'll be running office 2010 on it. Maybe RIM bought data viz to make much more full featured app for the tablet.
With RIM's history of handling media and consumer offerings I wonder what use the pad will be. I won't be an iPad.

Of course unless RIM blows is all out of the water.

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[The_Engine]

What??

I think he was responding to rumors that the new tablet runs on Android. What is saying that Google's android mobile OS is based on the Linux OS you may see on a PC. RIM just acquired a company called QNX who makes a Unix based OS. This the OS most of us believe will appear on the tablet and Storm that runs on VZW's LTE network. Linux is based on Unix some people tie them together.

So basically QNX is a distant cousin to Android. Ultimately it would mean a more Scalable and stable OS (we hope) and one with much better development platform for third party developers.

Of course that all depends on the implementation. As some have said here BMW uses QNX in some of their systems and it is not good. No experience myself on that.

I will probably move to android and see what RIM does with QNX. Maybe in 2012 I will come back.

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[grahamf]

I really hope it will be able to run some full programs. outlook would depend on M$ but I'd really love if it did everything that Blackberry Desktop manager does.

[TurboTiger]

I wouldn't expect the BB tablet to replace a laptop. I think it will be more of a media based compliment. I don't think you'll be running office 2010 on it. Maybe RIM bought data viz to make much more full featured app for the tablet.
With RIM's history of handling media and consumer offerings I wonder what use the pad will be. I won't be an iPad.

Of course unless RIM blows is all out of the water.

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Tks for the info Engine.

Good Luck

[pyrus]

What??

Posted from my BlackBerry using BerryBlab

I think he was responding to rumors that the new tablet runs on Android. What is saying that Google's android mobile OS is based on the Linux OS you may see on a PC. RIM just acquired a company called QNX who makes a Unix based OS. This the OS most of us believe will appear on the tablet and Storm that runs on VZW's LTE network. Linux is based on Unix some people tie them together.

So basically QNX is a distant cousin to Android. Ultimately it would mean a more Scalable and stable OS (we hope) and one with much better development platform for third party developers.

Of course that all depends on the implementation. As some have said here BMW uses QNX in some of their systems and it is not good. No experience myself on that.

I will probably move to android and see what RIM does with QNX. Maybe in 2012 I will come back.

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YES

people keep saying the tablet is going to run android instead of BB software but it isnt its just going to be based on linux just like andorid is but its going to still be a propriatary software other than android OS and this is where the confusion comes in

also with it being so close to the android OS it could mean easyer implimentation of apps meaning all the apps in the android market would be able to tranferd over to this tablet virtualy overnight

(Linux is a free compuer opperating system thats open source and distributed online for free and can be booted from a HDD CD or flash drive its similar to windows and mac but more basic and alot more can be done with it...hence there are many different versions of linux infact probly over 100 different "Distros")

[neverkno]

Subscribed

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[cwong15]

RIM just acquired a company called QNX who makes a Unix based OS. This the OS most of us believe will appear on the tablet and Storm that runs on VZW's LTE network. Linux is based on Unix some people tie them together.

So basically QNX is a distant cousin to Android.

Technically, neither QNX nor Linux are "Unix based". Neither of them have any roots in the original AT&T Unix nor the BSD variant. Both were developed independently from scratch. Architecturally QNX, unlike Unix and Linux, is a microkernel, real-time operating system.

Analogically, QNX is a distant "cousin" to Linux in that they implement similar system calls (POSIX) as Unix, so you can port Unix apps to them easily. Both are bare-bones platforms on which you need to build everything else: drivers, GUI, telephony, API etc. Google built Android on top of Linux. RIM is presumably building ... something -- BBOS? ... on top of QNX. Bottom line is that the phone user experience is so far removed from the underlying low-level OS kernel that you can't assume anything about what your experience will be just because you got QNX under the covers. Your BlackBerry may be running QNX right now: how can you tell it isn't?

In theory, RIM might have a few tricks with QNX because unlike Android/Linux it is a real-time OS, meaning stricter guarantees in terms of responsiveness in multitasking and scheduling. But I cannot even begin to speculate how RTOS characteristics would translate to a real competitive advantage. I'll just have to wait and see.

[Pearl9100]

Technically, neither QNX nor Linux are "Unix based". Neither of them have any roots in the original AT&T Unix nor the BSD variant. Both were developed independently from scratch. Architecturally QNX, unlike Unix and Linux, is a microkernel, real-time operating system.

Analogically, QNX is a distant "cousin" to Linux in that they implement similar system calls (POSIX) as Unix, so you can port Unix apps to them easily. Both are bare-bones platforms on which you need to build everything else: drivers, GUI, telephony, API etc. Google built Android on top of Linux. RIM is presumably building ... something -- BBOS? ... on top of QNX. Bottom line is that the phone user experience is so far removed from the underlying low-level OS kernel that you can't assume anything about what your experience will be just because you got QNX under the covers. Your BlackBerry may be running QNX right now: how can you tell it isn't?

In theory, RIM might have a few tricks with QNX because unlike Android/Linux it is a real-time OS, meaning stricter guarantees in terms of responsiveness in multitasking and scheduling. But I cannot even begin to speculate how RTOS characteristics would translate to a real competitive advantage. I'll just have to wait and see.

to be honest, i have no idea what you just said. someone is too smart . you should talk to my mom and dad. they are programmers and network admins, so you guys would get along.

all that mumble jumble aside, when it comes done to it, the qnx system LAGS BAD on the idrive on bmw. it may be a real time os and may sound great on paper, but in the end bmw dropped the ball with the qnx os and could not produce a product that is intuitive, responsive, and easy to use.

not only is the os not smooth and laggy, but there is a huge learning curve with the qnx os on the bmw. it provides hours of headaches and takes your eyes off of the road.

i really hope rim hits it out of the park with qnx, but the more i think about it, the more i doubt it will happen.

[grahamf]

to be honest that, or at least the learning curve, could be just BMW.
QNX does not include a GUI (everything you see on the screen), so if you were to use it by itself it would look like a jumble of text. BMW then adds a GUI to make it use icons and generally be more intuitive then typing out commands for every action, but it seems as if they dropped the ball on this.

As for the lag, I don't know too much of the BMW interface, but it could come down to bad code that forces to OS to do a lot of redundant/useless executions for every action.

[adambigge]

As far as the problems with the BMW iDrive interface go, I doubt that could be attributted directly to QNX. After all, OnStar uses a QNX based OS as well and it seems to operate just fine.

It just depends on how the OS is configured and implemented. Hopefully RIM will have a winner on their hands and ends up moving all their devices to this. I hope (fingers crossed) that the next iteration of the Storm will be sporting this new OS.

[Witmen]

I hope we start seeing some concrete info about this new OS soon. Is the blackpad still scheduled for Nov? Seems like we should have heard more about it by now. I wish RIM wasn't so secretive all the time.

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[cwong15]

all that mumble jumble aside, when it comes done to it, the qnx system LAGS BAD on the idrive on bmw. it may be a real time os and may sound great on paper, but in the end bmw dropped the ball with the qnx os and could not produce a product that is intuitive, responsive, and easy to use.

The question is, are you blaming the right piece? What I tried to point out when I described the nature of QNX is that it really is an operating system in the minimalist sense. It is the low level kernel on which to build stuff. An OS itself doesn't really do very much relative to the end user app. Its basic job is to start applications and then get out of the way. Most developers don't work at the level of the OS: they write applications that run on the OS. I doubt that BMW's auto developers would want to touch the QNX OS code itself.

If your Android game was laggy would you blame the Linux kernel on which it is built? Running on Linux, you have the game itself, the GUI, the class libraries, the Dalvik VM, and the various Android services that Google built on top of Linux. There is so much intervening stuff between the pretty picture on the screen and the low level OS that I think the user experience is unlikely to be affected by the lowly OS. Similarly blaming an end user experience for a GUI application running on QNX is like being stuck in a traffic jam and blaming your slow speed on the gasoline.

[lnichols]

RIM is in need of a new OS. I think the reason they bought QNX is because BB OS as we know it is about maxed out with what it can handle in terms of memory and graphics support. If they can start giving us much more application memory, and good a good base of applications and SDK's out there that can let programmers do the same things they can for Apple and Android I'll be a happy camper. My only concern is that they may be too late to the dance for developers to give them consideration.

[trini_pirate]

yes RIM can make a shiny new OS but if devs still find it hard to develop apps for or don't bother period, RIM would still be in trouble as it is today. Apps are now the driving force in the smartphone business today