11-25-11 05:27 PM
26 12
tools
  1. KQ9's Avatar
    Okay OS2.0 coming next year, but what about 1.0.8 and 9?

    I'd be happy to wait if they improve bridge performance like the Developers OS2.0 release which is FASTER. And get a bit of those browser improvements.

    Now that applications/games are slowly coming, it wouldn't be such a bad wait after all. Until then it's going to be a Play-book not the Blackberry part in Blackberry Playbook we expected.
    RWD and Alberta Blue like this.
    10-26-11 12:28 AM
  2. Spinal's Avatar
    I'd be happy to wait if they improve bridge performance like the Developers OS2.0 release which is FASTER. And get a bit of those browser improvements.
    they should've included bluetooth 3.0 or 4.0 in the playbook i really don't see the point in sticking with 2.1, the speeds with the latter 2 are much faster, and it would've worked amazing with the new 9900's - good selling feature too but guess they never thought of that.

    hopefully OS2 is worth the wait.
    10-26-11 01:52 AM
  3. chrism_scotland's Avatar
    It wouldn't surprise me to see some incremental improvements that can be delivered that don't need to be part of the "big bang" OS 2.0 update, probably not email or anything but maybe auto correct things like that.
    I think they need to do something to keep people on board and to avoid people abandoning ship between now and February.
    KQ9 and kbz1960 like this.
    10-26-11 02:32 AM
  4. FF22's Avatar
    Again, I would like to be proved wrong, but I have this feeling that they abandoned the incremental updates or modules and that trying to separate anything out now will be very hard for them to accomplish. That is maybe someone was working on a2dp and other on spelling and another search functions. But those separate efforts at those modules were rolled into this grand scheme and nothing exists now for just releasing those smaller parcels.

    And reading some of the problems with Android's size - maybe they really do need a REAL PB-TWO - one with more memory to handle the amount that is demanded by Android as well as running native stuff. I think they have major problems and it is not going to be easy to fix.
    10-26-11 10:05 AM
  5. DaedalusIcarusHelios's Avatar
    With Differential Updates available in 1.0.7.2942/, I would expect that 2.0. is the same, and they should be able to push out particular parts of the new 2.0 OS for us now, assuming it isn't reliant on other changes in 2.0. So I really expect them to continue to push out incremental updates prior to 2.0. They might not be much, but it would really be nice for us Early Adopters to get something early, like spell check / auto correction, or some bluetooth enhancements, etc. The biggest features can stay in 2.0, but give us some important but less flashy updates now and that'll tide us over. At least I'll be happy with that approach.
    10-26-11 10:11 AM
  6. peter9477's Avatar
    Again, I would like to be proved wrong, but I have this feeling that they abandoned the incremental updates or modules and that trying to separate anything out now will be very hard for them to accomplish. That is maybe someone was working on a2dp and other on spelling and another search functions. But those separate efforts at those modules were rolled into this grand scheme and nothing exists now for just releasing those smaller parcels.
    I doubt that's really true, as the OS is highly modular, and most of these features are very loosely coupled together. As well, the development approaches used these days (even within RIM, I'm sure, regardless of how messed up they are otherwise) allow relatively easy mix-and-match of features, at least for unrelated ones.

    Taking your example by itself, there is no relationship between A2DP and spelling/search features, and they could quite readily release something with either of those (assuming it were finished) and leave the other out, with fairly minimal work.

    More closely related items are of course harder to separate. I would not expect them to have an easy task releasing the PIM with email but no calendaring, for example.

    The decision not to release fewer, smaller updates, if that's the one they go with, is almost entirely voluntary, not forced on them by the structure of the project/code/system.
    10-26-11 12:03 PM
  7. CaptainGoodnight's Avatar
    There are two things that probably mitigate against them releasing any incremental updates. The first is time; each patch likely pulls developers, builders and testers away from hitting their fuzzy "February" date, and into the business of releasing something. It's going to be awfully tempting for the PB project team to just put their heads down and ignore us for a few months.

    The other is their renewed focus on the enterprise. Basically, it seems like they did not do the necessary heavy lifting to determine the features the consumer market really wants and how much time/effort/risk is associated with each one. Witness the recent survey on the beta site. Without that data, no project manager could possibly say "if we prioritize spell-checking, we satisfy 80% of the users but it'll delay the implementation of bluetooth stereo". Whether the two are closely coupled or not matters very little, since most teams have a limited amount of personnel and a finite amount of work that can be accomplished. This is why PMs get paid a lot of money and develop gray hair early; this is hard, hard work.

    It appears they are falling back on the market segment they do know well, the enterprise, to cook up a release timetable they can hit. It's human nature to manage the risks you do understand, and it may serve to focus their efforts, but the outcome of not understanding and properly planning for what the consumer market wants is likely to be additional frustrations for the faithful as end-user functionality is sacrificed for remote management features.

    Sorry to sound gloomy, but there isn't much other than chirpy optimism and braggadocio coming from RIM. That's rarely a good sign that they see the way out.
    wordy likes this.
    10-26-11 12:35 PM
  8. Mikey_T's Avatar
    Comments by RIM in the beta zone seem to indicate fast incremental updates are a sure thing; AFTER the 2.0 release.

    Don't hold your breath for anything in the meantime; it's nothing but a $500 web browser until next spring.
    10-26-11 12:41 PM
  9. void11's Avatar
    Comments by RIM in the beta zone seem to indicate fast incremental updates are a sure thing; AFTER the 2.0 release.

    Don't hold your breath for anything in the meantime; it's nothing but a $500 web browser until next spring.
    Many thought OS 2.0 arriving before year end was a sure thing. Even if those comments about fast incremental updates after the release of OS 2.0 is true, that just means the initial release will probably only have some of the expected new features and we'll have to keep waiting for the rest as they continue to finish the product.
    10-26-11 12:50 PM
  10. CaptainGoodnight's Avatar
    Many thought OS 2.0 arriving before year end was a sure thing. Even if those comments about fast incremental updates after the release of OS 2.0 is true, that just means the initial release will probably only have some of the expected new features and we'll have to keep waiting for the rest as they continue to finish the product.
    Exactly! Maybe it's unreasonable to expect a device like this to ever be "done", but these guys are like the university student that gets an extension on a paper but heads to the bar instead of the library. State a date, state the feature set, hit it, and then you may have some credibility.
    10-26-11 01:09 PM
  11. peter9477's Avatar
    Comments by RIM in the beta zone seem to indicate fast incremental updates are a sure thing; AFTER the 2.0 release.

    Don't hold your breath for anything in the meantime; it's nothing but a $500 web browser until next spring.
    Gah.. completely ***-backwards.

    First, lose your customer base by repeatedly missing release targets for delivering some of the core functionality everyone originally expected back in April, and delivering way too late to gain any real momentum, especially this holiday season. Also lose a lot of developers along the way because they can't make money selling into a 300K market unless they're Electronic Arts.

    Then, once you finally squeeze that big release out, start pumping frequent releases with relatively small features at them, so everyone can start whining about how things keep changing. The corporate clients will say they have a hard time retraining people constantly to take advantage of the new features, and (inevitably I think) how the system isn't stable because one of the too-frequent releases broke something.
    JeepBB likes this.
    10-26-11 01:12 PM
  12. KQ9's Avatar
    I doubt that's really true, as the OS is highly modular, and most of these features are very loosely coupled together. As well, the development approaches used these days (even within RIM, I'm sure, regardless of how messed up they are otherwise) allow relatively easy mix-and-match of features, at least for unrelated ones.

    Taking your example by itself, there is no relationship between A2DP and spelling/search features, and they could quite readily release something with either of those (assuming it were finished) and leave the other out, with fairly minimal work.

    More closely related items are of course harder to separate. I would not expect them to have an easy task releasing the PIM with email but no calendaring, for example.

    The decision not to release fewer, smaller updates, if that's the one they go with, is almost entirely voluntary, not forced on them by the structure of the project/code/system.
    True that, specially seeing how a "previous" build of OS2 had PIM and the new stuff, while the "newer" developer preview OS2 didn't. It's like they just plugged them out.
    10-26-11 09:28 PM
  13. FourOhFour's Avatar
    True that, specially seeing how a "previous" build of OS2 had PIM and the new stuff, while the "newer" developer preview OS2 didn't. It's like they just plugged them out.
    Right -- Doesn't mean they're not still integrated into the non-public 2.0 releases.

    As to the topic of the thread, it sounds like 2.0 has been in development for many months. The fact that there was another 1.0.7 release a few weeks back speaks to the likelihood of seeing additional minor updates in the interim.
    10-27-11 12:29 AM
  14. KQ9's Avatar
    Right -- Doesn't mean they're not still integrated into the non-public 2.0 releases.

    As to the topic of the thread, it sounds like 2.0 has been in development for many months. The fact that there was another 1.0.7 release a few weeks back speaks to the likelihood of seeing additional minor updates in the interim.
    Definitely for a while, but the whole QNX replacing BBOS and working it out with the the servers is making quite a delay.

    Really hope for minor updates. Specially bridge performance is my biggest issue right now :/.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    10-27-11 11:07 PM
  15. Mikey_T's Avatar
    Just a couple small updates would make a huge difference; a proper working keyboard with autocorrect and predictive typing would make just about every other app feel twice as efficient.

    Making the bridge work a bit better with bbm would also be great, get rid of the ghost notifications and tighten up the lag.
    FF22 likes this.
    11-08-11 09:00 PM
  16. kill_9's Avatar
    The first is time; each patch likely pulls developers, builders and testers away from hitting their fuzzy "February" date, and into the business of releasing something. It's going to be awfully tempting for the PB project team to just put their heads down and ignore us for a few months.
    That would be modus operandi for Research In Motion for all things related to the BlackBerry PlayBook.

    The other is their renewed focus on the enterprise. Whether the two are closely coupled or not matters very little, since most teams have a limited amount of personnel and a finite amount of work that can be accomplished. This is why PMs get paid a lot of money and develop gray hair early; this is hard, hard work.
    Respectfully, I disagree with your assertion. Projects staffed by talented people rarely fail or miss key milestones and deadlines. I have been part of such projects and it all comes down to the motivation level of those doing the real work. Most project managers are better not seen and not heard from except once a month like a certain other monthly visitor.
    11-08-11 10:25 PM
  17. kb5zht's Avatar
    Comments by RIM in the beta zone seem to indicate fast incremental updates are a sure thing; AFTER the 2.0 release.

    Don't hold your breath for anything in the meantime; it's nothing but a $500 web browser until next spring.
    Been saying this for a while and i agree. All indicators point to this device receive meaningless almost micro improvements; an extra language pack here, a bug fix there...

    Here is a sour note; i was so excited and anticipated good things I invested $700 for the 64 gig version. So...mine is a $700 web browser until next spring. Wait until February comes and goes with no OS 2.0 and you have to put up with comments in here like "you were never promised it".

    I would suggest that, had rim released this device April 19 of this year and included a posted, accurate timeline of what was coming (that they told the purchaser where this device would be at this point in time, and most anticipated features wouldnt be out for a year) sales wouldnt be HALF of what they were. We all laughed at Xoom's poor sales when in fact it would have outsold the playbook; the features that enabled rim to sell this device to the extent it had have not arrived yet.

    Nobody would, if honest, would say they felt paying full tablet prices for $100-$200 dollar web browsers is justified.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Mikey_T likes this.
    11-09-11 05:38 AM
  18. highos's Avatar
    Definitely for a while, but the whole QNX replacing BBOS and working it out with the the servers is making quite a delay.
    I think this is a big misunderstanding. I don't think they have any major problems integrating PBOS/BBX into the current infrastructure because it already has everything it needs-a unique PIN.

    The problem from what I can tell that has caused them all kinds of issues is that they were trying to switch to using an BBID account that could be associated with multiple PINs. So you could have a single sign-on for multiple devices (be it a smartphone or at tablet) and all of your configuration/settings would be pushed to all of them.

    If you follow the development of BBM you'd have noticed how the focus has shifted and how everything is based upon your BBID logon. Just like in OS7 when you initial setup the device you logon with your BBID which is tied into your BIS account and App World. Again all going back to the single sign-on principle.

    The issue with the BlackBerry infrastructure is that it was setup to use unique device PINs that are associated with a single device. I just wanted to post and clarify about this, because I see quite a few people making comments like this and it always irks me a little for not realizing that they have been working on making this change for quite a while now and it's not a simple process.

    There have been several posts of people saying they've seen PBOS running with native BIS/BES and BBM-and although I only have my gut feeling and opinion-I believe these comments. I just think that they are trying to take it one step further and not just re-use their old infrastructure but make it better by giving us a single sign-on, instead of having to deal with multiple PINs and duplication of configurations if we have multiple devices.
    peter9477 likes this.
    11-09-11 08:06 AM
  19. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    With Differential Updates available in 1.0.7.2942/
    Just for clarification only, what is the version now of OS1.0.7?... mine is OS1.0.7.3312...

    Anyone having different OS1.0.7 version?...
    11-09-11 11:47 AM
  20. peter9477's Avatar
    joshua_sx1, no, that's the latest.
    joshua_sx1 likes this.
    11-09-11 12:19 PM
  21. The Me's Avatar
    I think this is a big misunderstanding. I don't think they have any major problems integrating PBOS/BBX into the current infrastructure because it already has everything it needs-a unique PIN.

    The problem from what I can tell that has caused them all kinds of issues is that they were trying to switch to using an BBID account that could be associated with multiple PINs. So you could have a single sign-on for multiple devices (be it a smartphone or at tablet) and all of your configuration/settings would be pushed to all of them.

    If you follow the development of BBM you'd have noticed how the focus has shifted and how everything is based upon your BBID logon. Just like in OS7 when you initial setup the device you logon with your BBID which is tied into your BIS account and App World. Again all going back to the single sign-on principle.

    The issue with the BlackBerry infrastructure is that it was setup to use unique device PINs that are associated with a single device. I just wanted to post and clarify about this, because I see quite a few people making comments like this and it always irks me a little for not realizing that they have been working on making this change for quite a while now and it's not a simple process.

    There have been several posts of people saying they've seen PBOS running with native BIS/BES and BBM-and although I only have my gut feeling and opinion-I believe these comments. I just think that they are trying to take it one step further and not just re-use their old infrastructure but make it better by giving us a single sign-on, instead of having to deal with multiple PINs and duplication of configurations if we have multiple devices.
    Yesyesyes! But isn't able to make it so BBID can be associated to another BBID and it will solve the problem? I don't know if it would put too much stress on the servers though (as well as th software/coding).

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    11-21-11 04:17 AM
  22. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    RE: OS2.0 in Feb 2012, what about 1.0.8 and 9?


    RIM: What 1.0.8 and 9?

    11-24-11 04:29 AM
  23. jhimmel's Avatar
    Okay OS2.0 coming next year, but what about 1.0.8 and 9?

    I'd be happy to wait if they improve bridge performance like the Developers OS2.0 release which is FASTER. And get a bit of those browser improvements.

    Now that applications/games are slowly coming, it wouldn't be such a bad wait after all. Until then it's going to be a Play-book not the Blackberry part in Blackberry Playbook we expected.
    1.0.8 in November, 2011.
    meltbox360 likes this.
    11-24-11 05:42 AM
  24. meltbox360's Avatar
    1.0.8 in November, 2011.
    I see what you did there
    11-25-11 10:12 AM
  25. joshua_sx1's Avatar
    Finally... I was about to register for Beta OS2...

    Just wondering only, it is really worth to wait for official OS2? or jump the wagon and experience the "evolution" of Beta OS2?... since it seems that there will be no major improvement in OS 1.X.X... they will probably reserve for official OS2...
    11-25-11 10:59 AM
26 12
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD