[Crackbram]

Hi,

Just a quick one:
One of the PB's characteristics is its gestures that take advantage of the black frame around the screen.
Such frames do not exist on the BB10 phones, so my question is : will BB10 on the Playbook make use of the external frames in the gestures (so it will have different gestures on the phones and on the tablet), or will the frames on the Playbook become just completely useless with BB10 update?

Thanks

[Thunderbuck]

Hi,

Just a quick one:
One of the PB's characteristics is its gestures that take advantage of the black frame around the screen.
Such frames do not exist on the BB10 phones, so my question is : will BB10 on the Playbook make use of the external frames in the gestures (so it will have different gestures on the phones and on the tablet), or will the frames on the Playbook become just completely useless with BB10 update?

Thanks

On the Dev Alpha devices side-swiping still works (even with very little bezel there to swipe from).

[peter9477]

Such frames do not exist on the BB10 phones,

Yes, they do. Same behaviour is expected.

[Ben1232]

I can't see the bezel gestures being different on two BB10 devices.

[Crackbram]

ok thanks!

[Playbookrocks]

I wonder if the playbook bezel could become more screen space or is the bezel just that forever.

[peter9477]

I wonder if the playbook bezel could become more screen space or is the bezel just that forever.

Not really sure what you mean. The device you have now cannot change that through a software update, if that's what you mean. Future versions of the hardware don't have to preserve the same screen size or resolution, however, so that could change. I wouldn't expect it any time soon...

[ryacht]

My opinion is, the bezel outside the screen is not sensitive at all. It just appears so. A smart strategy to recognize a sweep "coming into the screen with a particular direction" is what make it feel like. So if a contact is detected at the very last pixel/sensor line at the edge of the display - and the motion continues inside at a straight line, it's then treated as an "bezel gesture". I still like it but it's not some very special hardware. The bezel does never receive any input as long as you dont cross into the display area! Right?

Bottomline: The bezel can technically be almost zero, while the gesture would still work. Just the human should detect some usable bezel area to start the movement.

Very smart approach. And while displays tend to fill the whole front recently, the PB gestures could stay!

Ray

[wxmancanada]

My opinion is, the bezel outside the screen is not sensitive at all. It just appears so. A smart strategy to recognize a sweep "coming into the screen with a particular direction" is what make it feel like. So if a contact is detected at the very last pixel/sensor line at the edge of the display - and the motion continues inside at a straight line, it's then treated as an "bezel gesture". I still like it but it's not some very special hardware. The bezel does never receive any input as long as you dont cross into the display area! Right?

Bottomline: The bezel can technically be almost zero, while the gesture would still work. Just the human should detect some usable bezel area to start the movement.

Very smart approach. And while displays tend to fill the whole front recently, the PB gestures could stay!

Ray

You got it!

Edit: Should probably update to say that my statement is an endorsement of how it could be on bezzel-less devices!

[GreyGhostRos]

My opinion is, the bezel outside the screen is not sensitive at all. It just appears so. A smart strategy to recognize a sweep "coming into the screen with a particular direction" is what make it feel like. So if a contact is detected at the very last pixel/sensor line at the edge of the display - and the motion continues inside at a straight line, it's then treated as an "bezel gesture". I still like it but it's not some very special hardware. The bezel does never receive any input as long as you dont cross into the display area! Right?

Bottomline: The bezel can technically be almost zero, while the gesture would still work. Just the human should detect some usable bezel area to start the movement.

Very smart approach. And while displays tend to fill the whole front recently, the PB gestures could stay!

Ray

Nope. Pretty sure the bezel is touch sensitive..

Try this -> in the browser start scrolling and then drag your finger onto the bezel.. You can still continue to scroll.
And also there is API which provides the exact start point within the bezel I'm pretty sure..

[Playbookrocks]

If you scroll and while doing so you touch the bezel it does not stop the scrolling but if you touch the bezel first and while doing so try to scroll...it won't.
If the bezel is touch sensitive then maybe it is possible with software update to turn it into screen and thus increase the screen size of the Playbook to more than 7 inches.
Anyone agree with this possibly?

[peter9477]

If you scroll and while doing so you touch the bezel it does not stop the scrolling but if you touch the bezel first and while doing so try to scroll...it won't.
If the bezel is touch sensitive then maybe it is possible with software update to turn it into screen and thus increase the screen size of the Playbook to more than 7 inches.
Anyone agree with this possibly?

No, this is an impossibility. The touch surface and the screen are different physical devices.

Also, to the suggestion that the bezel is not actually touch sensitive... sorry, that's also wrong. It is definitely touch sensitive outside the screen region.

The idea that you can have a very thin bezel region and still have this work reasonably well is a good one, however, and that's why this will work even on phones with a much smaller bezel. There are always engineering tradeoffs when you change parameters like this, however, and an extremely narrow area likely means higher power consumption or slower or less reliable detection of the touch, so there is likely a lower limit to the width of the touch region before the disadvantages overwhelm the benefits.

[ryacht]

Nope. Pretty sure the bezel is touch sensitive..

Try this -> in the browser start scrolling and then drag your finger onto the bezel.. You can still continue to scroll.
And also there is API which provides the exact start point within the bezel I'm pretty sure..

In this case I change my opinion. I didn't know about that scrolling. All I tried showed no sensitivity.

Interesting and thanks!

Ray

[mugglesquop]

you can wake the device by swiping from one frame to another

you can switch apps by swiping from one frame to another

you can bring up options by swiping from the top frame down

you can bring up your app icons by swiping from the bottom frame up

this all shows that the frame is separate (and touch sensitive!) to the main screen, otherwise none of the above would work, it would just think you are scrolling on the screen.

(does no one watch the Tutorial video when you first start up the tablet?!)

[ryacht]

Nope:

you can wake the device by swiping from one frame to another
you cross INTO the display for that - no proof

you can switch apps by swiping from one frame to another
you cross into the display for that - no proof

you can bring up options by swiping from the top frame down
you cross into the display for that - no proof

you can bring up your app icons by swiping from the bottom frame up
you cross into the display for that - no proof

I add:

you can open the top icons while inside an app by diagonal swipe from corner into the screen
you cross into the display for that - no proof

you can initiate the return/close function in Android apps by swiping from lower frame "up left" into the display
you cross into the display for that - no proof

you can start scrolling in Brwoser and leave the display zone, while it still scrolls
THAT'S the proof that the frame is touch sensitive!



Ray

[backfire101]

Nope:

you can wake the device by swiping from one frame to another
you cross INTO the display for that - no proof
Yes but swipe inside the display and device wont wake up

you can switch apps by swiping from one frame to another
you cross into the display for that - no proof
Same answer, the bezel is the trigger

you can bring up options by swiping from the top frame down
you cross into the display for that - no proof
Again try it by staying inside the display

you can bring up your app icons by swiping from the bottom frame up
you cross into the display for that - no proof

I add:

you can open the top icons while inside an app by diagonal swipe from corner into the screen
you cross into the display for that - no proof

you can initiate the return/close function in Android apps by swiping from lower frame "up left" into the display
you cross into the display for that - no proof

you can start scrolling in Brwoser and leave the display zone, while it still scrolls
THAT'S the proof that the frame is touch sensitive!



Ray

So now you know that the sensitive overlay is bigger then your lcd screen

[ryacht]

you don't get my point, but that's academic. I was being convinced here that the touch area is a lot bigger than the display (havent tested it yet, but I believe). The last gesture is the undeniable proof.

I find it very interesting, that BB PB has such an interesting technique.

Ray

[DocDRM]

This thread has been interesting . . .

[Elwe Feanorfin]

While the above methods has proven that the bezel is touch sensitive, a far simpler proof is that the back function in Android apps and the folders on the homescreen can be done through a swipe in the bottom bezel, without coming in contact with the LCD display.

[ryacht]

without coming in contact with the LCD display.

Is that true? I never tried this. Then it's another proof - yet a bit unpractical. I wonder why they didn't implement more "bezel only" gestures like "around the corner", "slide along" or "slide out". Maybe too much ... but page scrolling initiated from bezel only is a must have

THX!! Ray

[peter9477]

I wonder why they didn't implement more "bezel only" gestures like "around the corner", "slide along" or "slide out".

I think my response in this thread basically answers that: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...3/#post7604738

[Toodeurep]

I think my response in this thread basically answers that: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...3/#post7604738

Dead on Peter. Right about .25" or 6.3mm. I always thought it was the BlackBerry logo on the bottom but infact it is much higher.

[mugglesquop]

Ryact - why cant you wake a smart phone from touching the screen yet you can with a playbook? once you have worked that out you will understand what i was saying.

[xsacha]

There's only about 3mm around the display that is touch sensitive. The other 10-20mm of bezel is wasted space and is not used.

[ryacht]

uhmmmmm ... nope

While the above methods has proven that the bezel is touch sensitive, a far simpler proof is that the back function in Android apps and the folders on the homescreen can be done through a swipe in the bottom bezel, without coming in contact with the LCD display.

i can Not confirm this. it really doesnt work on mine. What works as Bezel sensitivity proof:

the scroll gesture in browser, when leaving to the right frame, scroll continues

and an "around the corner" gesture (!) done clockwise at the upper right or ccw on upper left corner. that one works while being outside display at all times!

Ray