[samab]

Its a combination of everything. Its outdated, zero updates, and doesn't even do the basics of Skype, and foreign language support. BlackBerry dropped the ball big time on this product. Its too bad, cause it had real promise. But as time progressed and other makers continue to develop their products and care about their buyers, BB kind of brushed the PB and all of us off to the side.

If you people add ALL the for-profit android tablets out there (i.e. exclude the kindle fire, nook and Google nexus tablets) --- android's tablet market share IN TOTAL (Samsung, HTC, Acer, Asus, Lenovo, Motorola...) amounts to maybe 5% of the overall tablet market.

The whole thread is flawed to begin with. Individually, the Playbook outsold a few of these android tablets.

So say the Playbook has a 0.5% market share and the Xoom has a 0.4% market share. You people are arguing that if RIM did this and that, they would have beaten HTC --- which HTC may have like a 0.6% market share.

Even if RIM did everything perfectly and managed to match the TOTAL for-profit android tablet market share --- that would still be 5% of the overall market --- still a massive failure.

[kboya]

If you people add ALL the for-profit android tablets out there (i.e. exclude the kindle fire, nook and Google nexus tablets) --- android's tablet market share IN TOTAL (Samsung, HTC, Acer, Asus, Lenovo, Motorola...) amounts to maybe 5% of the overall tablet market.

The whole thread is flawed to begin with. Individually, the Playbook outsold a few of these android tablets.

So say the Playbook has a 0.5% market share and the Xoom has a 0.4% market share. You people are arguing that if RIM did this and that, they would have beaten HTC --- which HTC may have like a 0.6% market share.

Even if RIM did everything perfectly and managed to match the TOTAL for-profit android tablet market share --- that would still be 5% of the overall market --- still a massive failure.

dear samab and apologisers,
in terms of importance, this is a thread. Its perfection is not the issue. repeatedly calling it flawed is only a deflection from poor scope of your own analysis. the scope of the thread is that of an insignificant forum dealing with fans and involved owners. xda has about the same amount of clout as crackberry (ie near none), and that deals with an open source os.
deal with the issues arising from the thread, and lose the attitude of business model guru... it is only a thread and there's nothing in your analysis to change that for the better.

[Barracuda7772]

I'm sorry I'm pretty drunk I cannot answer anything lol

[dphjeff]

Have you been drinking Brandy too?

[Barracuda7772]

Have you been drinking Brandy too?

no rum and coke and very very strong beer 10% lol

[312Lorden]

The PlayBook doesn't outsell the other tablets simply because it doesn't bear that fruit which Eve gave to Adam that cause everyone to be kicked out from paradise... other than that, I cannot think of other valid reasoning... not sure if that snake can make difference either...
_______
Not sure if I can believe in a talking snake. ;-)

Posted via Z10

[BBplay]

Hardware is fine and all IMO. The main reason is the environment and the major lack of apps compared to Android and apple devices. Current version of the OS is fine for basic stuff like surfing but it does lack polish/performance of OS10. It all depends on what people want to do with the tablet. For more, lets say diverse and creative possibilities which only Android/apple devices can provide at this time.

People want more versatile tablets basically.

[samab]

dear samab and apologisers,
in terms of importance, this is a thread. Its perfection is not the issue. repeatedly calling it flawed is only a deflection from poor scope of your own analysis. the scope of the thread is that of an insignificant forum dealing with fans and involved owners. xda has about the same amount of clout as crackberry (ie near none), and that deals with an open source os.
deal with the issues arising from the thread, and lose the attitude of business model guru... it is only a thread and there's nothing in your analysis to change that for the better.

It's not about being an apologist, it is about the original question being flawed (and not asking the correct question in the first place).

On a technical point of view, Playbook's problems stem from QNX being used in industrial systems (i.e. they are used in mail sorting machines which doesn't even have an UI) --- and thus in the history of QNX's 30 year existence. they NEVER had any GUI expertise. So QNX developed an Adobe AIR UI that did not work well. By then it was too late even when RIM bought TAT.

Of course, the infamous native email client --- which RIM wrote 3 different versions. First they wrote it in java and demo'ed it as Playbook's Blackberry Player. Then they re-wrote it in Adobe Air which is the version released on the Playbook. Then they re-wrote the whole thing again in Cascades for BB10.

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...4/#post8353609

On a business model point of view, RIM's co-CEO's didn't understand the urgency --- and made the mistake of waiting to put QNX on Blackberry phone and want to use Playbook as a test bed to PROVE QNX's worthiness. Much like Comedy Central's Indecision 2012 --- RIM was "undecided" whether to put QNX on Blackberry phones. It was the stupidest idea ever, quote: “We had to prove ourselves on the tablet first,” Dodge says. “But once we proved ourselves there, then we went full-steam ahead on the phone.”

QNX founder confident BlackBerry 10 will impress | therecord

These are the correct issues to look at --- what the hell were they thinking? You people are on the wrong path by talking about the Playbook in the first place.

If they bought TAT at the same time when they bought QNX. If they made the early determination of ditching java ---- instead of writing the native email client 3 times. If they jumped right into BB10 first instead of using QNX as a test bed --- while Rome was burning ---- we could have BB10 phones 18 months earlier.

Those are the important issues. Playbook shouldn't even exist in the first place. The whole thread is completely flawed to begin with.

[FF22]

I couldn't resist this is my new 8week old kitten sitting beside me, the intermet is made for kittens after all

Vicious beast!

[Barracuda7772]

Vicious beast!

she is....when it comes to catnip

[Gooseberry Falls]

It's not about being an apologist, it is about the original question being flawed (and not asking the correct question in the first place).

On a technical point of view, Playbook's problems stem from QNX being used in industrial systems (i.e. they are used in mail sorting machines which doesn't even have an UI) --- and thus in the history of QNX's 30 year existence. they NEVER had any GUI expertise. So QNX developed an Adobe AIR UI that did not work well. By then it was too late even when RIM bought TAT.

Of course, the infamous native email client --- which RIM wrote 3 different versions. First they wrote it in java and demo'ed it as Playbook's Blackberry Player. Then they re-wrote it in Adobe Air which is the version released on the Playbook. Then they re-wrote the whole thing again in Cascades for BB10.

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...4/#post8353609

On a business model point of view, RIM's co-CEO's didn't understand the urgency --- and made the mistake of waiting to put QNX on Blackberry phone and want to use Playbook as a test bed to PROVE QNX's worthiness. Much like Comedy Central's Indecision 2012 --- RIM was "undecided" whether to put QNX on Blackberry phones. It was the stupidest idea ever, quote: “We had to prove ourselves on the tablet first,” Dodge says. “But once we proved ourselves there, then we went full-steam ahead on the phone.”

QNX founder confident BlackBerry 10 will impress | therecord

These are the correct issues to look at --- what the hell were they thinking? You people are on the wrong path by talking about the Playbook in the first place.

If they bought TAT at the same time when they bought QNX. If they made the early determination of ditching java ---- instead of writing the native email client 3 times. If they jumped right into BB10 first instead of using QNX as a test bed --- while Rome was burning ---- we could have BB10 phones 18 months earlier.

Those are the important issues. Playbook shouldn't even exist in the first place. The whole thread is completely flawed to begin with.

I'm confused. So if BBRY did everything "right", they would still never have got > 0.5% market share? That Apple is unbeatable? Maybe we need to turn it around and ask why is Apple unbeatable. LOL.

[samab]

I'm confused. So if BBRY did everything "right", they would still never have got > 0.5% market share? That Apple is unbeatable? Maybe we need to turn it around and ask why is Apple unbeatable. LOL.

It exposes the fact that carrier subsidies play a big part on Android's ascendance in smartphone's market share --- and the lack of carrier subsidies on tablet sales immediately exposes the Android OS's weaknesses.

[joshua_sx1]

Help a stupid old man like me. How many is a zillion?

Tonight, just go out and look at the sky... the stars that you are going to see is half of zillion. Now, if you can go on the other side of the planet, that's another half...

OK, to make it easier, just go out and look at the sky while drinking your favorite vodkas with pastries. In no time, the stars will be double and you don't need to go to another side of the planet just to see the other half of zillion...

You can start counting, if you have a doubt... (sigh, I wish I could count them with you... I miss the pastries)

Posted via Z10

[alternator77]

Lack of apps, email client, proper advertising ( not a peep about BlackBerry bridge) when you still had tons of people buying your phones. But a flash Gordon soundtrack...doomed the device.
Oh yeah and price definitely was a factor. I mean if you're going to ask for that kind of money at least tell me in the commercials why I should pay that much.

Posted via CB10

[Giomi]

Come on! Why ? Also the Z10 is still missing basic app like Skype. I love PB but you can't release hardware without minimum and basic app that customer assume as granted. I still remember rumors that Skype was being released on PB two years ago! We got now also the newest Z10 and still skype is in discussion.

[jgrobertson]

The first ones put on display in the stores did not work. Customers and sales people alike then ignored it. BB did nothing to fix the problem for a year. Stores hated selling it because they could not make it work for customers and had to take them back. BB did not know he how to sell direct to consumers. The Playbook launch was a marketing disaster that destroyed BB reputation. It is very hard to come back from that.

[blueberrymerry]

To samab:

Flawed thread? Tell ya what, here's one of the Playbook's biggest flaws: no apps. Those Android tablets with "maybe 5% of the overall tablet market" (your words) have Skype, Netflix, Kindle, Ebay, loads of office suites, SSH clients and servers, DLNA clients and servers, goodness knows what else. That comes from having a unified operating system across tablet and smartphone form factors - Apple, Google and Microsoft know this very well and they've cornered the market between them.

This may have happened recently with Android 4.0 onwards but at least it happened. Now an Android developer can write the same app and have the UI scale properly on a Nexus 4, Nexus 7 and everything else Android out there. In the near future we won't even be talking about smartphones and tablets, we'll be talking about mobile computers with different screen sizes.

With the Playbook, we have an orphaned device with an orphaned OS and a fool of a CEO at the helm.

[Wongsky]

To samab:

Flawed thread? Tell ya what, here's one of the Playbook's biggest flaws: no apps. Those Android tablets with "maybe 5% of the overall tablet market" (your words) have Skype, Netflix, Kindle, Ebay, loads of office suites, SSH clients and servers, DLNA clients and servers, goodness knows what else. That comes from having a unified operating system across tablet and smartphone form factors - Apple, Google and Microsoft know this very well and they've cornered the market between them.

This may have happened recently with Android 4.0 onwards but at least it happened. Now an Android developer can write the same app and have the UI scale properly on a Nexus 4, Nexus 7 and everything else Android out there. In the near future we won't even be talking about smartphones and tablets, we'll be talking about mobile computers with different screen sizes.

With the Playbook, we have an orphaned device with an orphaned OS and a fool of a CEO at the helm.

Bloody hell - way to be dramatic, I half expected: "Father to a murdered son, husband to a murdered wife. And I will have my vengeance, in this life or the next."

And your assertions about the convergence and commonality of Android - well with all of that - outside of the loss-leading tablets, why are they not dominant a la iPad?

Your argument fails, because it misses a significant reason why some people by tech product - and it's nothing to do with it's technical chops. And that's far from an insignificant demographic.

My parents - their natural choice for a tablet - an iPad. Truth be told, they were ambivalent to it, and found it as hard to use as any other bit of tech. They've seen me make a lot of use of Android tablets, but in recent times, I showed them my PlayBook. For what they wanted to use it for, it was a complete no brainer - easier and more convenient to use than their iPad, and I think it's fair to say, more intuitive to use, too.

But even that's beside the point. The vast majority of buyers of this sort of thing care nothing about the things that enthusiasts tend to obsess about in forums. Apps may well be what teenagers, or technically savvy users care for - but don't assume it defines the audience - because quite simply it doesn't. I'd go on to say, many speculative tablets buyers have no true idea what they really want out of a tablet, 'til they've got one and start using it (by that, I mean beyond things like email, light web usage, maybe reading some ebooks).

[lexluthorxx]

i forgot the question....

[photo99]

Help a stupid old man like me. How many is a zillion?

Less than a Kazillion.

[blueberrymerry]

What the heck are we arguing about again?

We really need Thorsten Heins back. Thorsten, what's your view? Maybe some brandy would help.

[FF22]

Ah, come on, if bbry restarted manufacturing the wifi pb, it would quickly surpass sales of ipads. Well, it would SOON surpass ipad sales or maybe it would surpass them around the corner.

[sad_old_man]

Less than a Kazillion.

Thanks, that was very helpful?

[samab]

That comes from having a unified operating system across tablet and smartphone form factors - Apple, Google and Microsoft know this very well and they've cornered the market between them.

With the Playbook, we have an orphaned device with an orphaned OS and a fool of a CEO at the helm.

The fools were the fired co-ceo's who decided to WAIT for QNX to PROVE its technology prowess on a tablet WHILE Rome was burning.

Talking about unified operating system across tablets and smartphones is silly --- when Rome was burning. There is nothing to unify when Blackberry is dropping to 2-3% of US market share.

(1) The flaw was not buying TAT along with QNX. (2) The flaw was giving QNX which never had expertise in GUI to develop a Adobe AIR GUI. (3) The flaw was not courageously ditching java early --- instead of writing the native email client 3 times in 3 different languages. (4) The biggest flaw of them all --- RIM waited for QNX to prove its prowess. If they did 1-3 correctly, they could have come out with a BB10 phone in Christmas 2011 when RIM still had a 10% market share in the US.

The Playbook should have never existed in the first place --- set back RIM for years.

[sad_old_man]

i forgot the question....

I know the question but do you know the answer?