01-08-12 09:47 PM
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  1. nogutsnoglory's Avatar
    While I am no expert on batteries I go back to my previous laptop battery example as anecdotal evidence. My laptop has been "over charged" (in the sense that it has ben constantly on a charger while in use and when not in use) since I got it 2-3 years ago. I have been using battery bar on the laptop to recently monitor the health of the battery. According to battery bar, I have experiences 6% battery wear of 56,160 mWh during the life of the battery. To me that doesn't sound too bad for a 2-3 year old battery.

    I am not saying that the information provided by Bluezone1 is inaccurate. Like Peter said above, I have a feeling that the battery engineers for electronic devices like the Playbook may have incorporated certain software or hardware designs into the devices to account for the lithium battery characteristics referenced in the article.

    Another example is my old Blackberry Tour that I have used for almost 2 years as my alarm clock in its cradle (similar over charge situation). The battery is still is very good shape today even though it spends most of its life in a charging cradle.

    Thoughts?
    01-08-12 10:21 AM
  2. bluezone1's Avatar
    While I am no expert on batteries I go back to my previous laptop battery example as anecdotal evidence. My laptop has been "over charged" (in the sense that it has ben constantly on a charger while in use and when not in use) since I got it 2-3 years ago. I have been using battery bar on the laptop to recently monitor the health of the battery. According to battery bar, I have experiences 6% battery wear of 56,160 mWh during the life of the battery. To me that doesn't sound too bad for a 2-3 year old battery.

    I am not saying that the information provided by Bluezone1 is inaccurate. Like Peter said above, I have a feeling that the battery engineers for electronic devices like the Playbook may have incorporated certain software or hardware designs into the devices to account for the lithium battery characteristics referenced in the article.

    Another example is my old Blackberry Tour that I have used for almost 2 years as my alarm clock in its cradle (similar over charge situation). The battery is still is very good shape today even though it spends most of its life in a charging cradle.

    Thoughts?



    i agree with every thing said about how the rechage system on the playbook works. In normal use.

    I am talking about abnormal use.

    IMHO

    Batteries are a source of potential energy. But they only become a source of potential energy by having a plate charge differential. one plate in the battery having a positive charge and one plate having a negative charge. Rechargeable batteries need to be activated by charging. this generally takes some time (there is some new battery tech coming up that will make this untrue). The reasons for this are cell operation conditions. Max potential, minimum useable potential, condition of the cell etc etc..

    Notice i used the minimum useable potential as one of the conditions. Part of the long 1st long charge time is build up to this minimum useable potential. Not all of the the charge is usable. Some of the energy put in the battery cell cannot be usefully gotten back and may damage the cell in trying to get it back. thus the cut-off voltage level of the playbook.

    Now to recharge batteries a voltage has to be applied. All new users of lithium batteries limit this voltage to prevent overheating of the battery. Heat is the enemy here. From the sounds of posts here by peter9477 and yourself it is well setup to prevent overheating. This is what i am talking about. The system if well designed it should prevent overheating from happening. This is the catch 22. If the battery is is such condition(battery age and overly discharged) that overheating by charging would take place. The playbook may not allow recharging.

    I have a friend who regularly kills batteries in everything. Simply by misuse and neglect. My point being keep you batteries maintained.

    I happen to believe the notion lithium batteries should be stored at roughly 50% charge level. I don't necessarily follow it though and rarely have problems. But what is 50% charge? It's not the 50% shown on the change indicator of the playbook. It can be detirmed by directly testing the battery. This changes with the condition of the battery. Too much trouble IMHO. It would prolly be good to just not "fully" charge the playbook before storage.


    I think i will get peter9477's app. it sounds very good.


    Anyone one please correct any misinformation and mistakes in my post. I am going by memory.(the old brain cells arenot as good as they used to be)

    any how thanks for putting up with my long post.
    cheers
    Last edited by bluezone1; 01-08-12 at 05:03 PM.
    peter9477 likes this.
    01-08-12 04:57 PM
  3. esqlaw's Avatar
    Good post but you misspelled wear...
    01-08-12 05:20 PM
  4. Send Again's Avatar
    While I am no expert on batteries I go back to my previous laptop battery example as anecdotal evidence. My laptop has been "over charged" (in the sense that it has ben constantly on a charger while in use and when not in use) since I got it 2-3 years ago. I have been using battery bar on the laptop to recently monitor the health of the battery. According to battery bar, I have experiences 6% battery wear of 56,160 mWh during the life of the battery. To me that doesn't sound too bad for a 2-3 year old battery.

    I am not saying that the information provided by Bluezone1 is inaccurate. Like Peter said above, I have a feeling that the battery engineers for electronic devices like the Playbook may have incorporated certain software or hardware designs into the devices to account for the lithium battery characteristics referenced in the article.

    Another example is my old Blackberry Tour that I have used for almost 2 years as my alarm clock in its cradle (similar over charge situation). The battery is still is very good shape today even though it spends most of its life in a charging cradle.

    Thoughts?
    I've had exactly the opposite experience. It may have been the battery itself or maybe just the computer had a bad circuit.

    I had a Sony VAIO UMPC VGN-UX280P. I bought it for mobile use, but i never really used it for that. It became my desktop replacement. As a result, the battery always stayed connected and fully charged. One day I wanted to take it with me on a trip but the battery was dead. It was still under warranty so I called Sony and they sent me a replacement battery. About 6 months later, that battery died also. Both batteries were hardly used and stayed fully charged all the time.
    01-08-12 05:36 PM
  5. Chaddface's Avatar
    Battery/charging advice should only be given as it applies to a normal functioning PB.
    Abnormal device or battery conditions have too many variables.

    I say charge it whenever you want and don't discharge it fully before going on vacation for a year.
    peter9477 and bluezone1 like this.
    01-08-12 05:44 PM
  6. bluezone1's Avatar
    Battery/charging advice should only be given as it applies to a normal functioning PB.
    Abnormal device or battery conditions have too many variables.
    you asked in a earlier post "Please explain here" . sorry that was sarcasm from you. thanks for you input X2 now.
    01-08-12 08:52 PM
  7. dugggggg's Avatar
    I think keeping any battery half-charged is a bad strategy. Think of a fully charged battery as a bright, shiny steel plate. The process of discharging a battery is very similar to rust formation on steel. Just as rust can be converted back to steel by heating it, battery "rust" can be corrected by introducing electrons, i.e. charging.

    But not all rust is the same. Rust that forms on the surface of a plate is more easily removed than rust that has been there a while. This is basically because over time, the rust becomes more crystalline in structure and bonds more tightly.

    Similarly, if you leave any battery in a partially charged state, crystals can form, resulting in lengthened charge time or even permanent loss of capacity. If you completely discharge a battery, you are in effect converting it entirely to rust. Just as a heavily rusted steel plate barely resembles a plate any more, the battery may not convert entirely back into its original form. In other words, it may distort in shape, e.g. bulge. This is not the only cause of a bulging battery, but it certainly is one of them. So when your PB tells you to charge the batteries, pay heed!

    Regarding overcharging, Lithium Polymer batteries do NOT tolerate it---not even a trickle. Never fear, PB is here: the hardware is designed to automatically and completely terminate the charge once certain charging conditions are met---and then not to resume charging again until there's a certain voltage drop. Simply said, it is impossible to overcharge the batteries in your PB.
    nogutsnoglory likes this.
    01-08-12 09:29 PM
  8. nogutsnoglory's Avatar
    Regarding overcharging, Lithium Polymer batteries do NOT tolerate it---not even a trickle. Never fear, PB is here: the hardware is designed to automatically and completely terminate the charge once certain charging conditions are met---and then not to resume charging again until there's a certain voltage drop. Simply said, it is impossible to overcharge the batteries in your PB.
    this is what i was alluding to in my earlier post. would love go have confirmation of tbis from RIM, but absent such confirmation, i will continue to use my PB as my alarm clock on its oem charger/dock and continue to dock my 9930 at the office.

    thanks for the thread, it has been interesting.
    01-08-12 09:45 PM
  9. T
    Some improper conclusions being drawn re Li-Ion batteries. It's fine to charge any Li-Ion battery to 100%. They just don't like to remain connected to a charger at 100% for long periods of time. That's why my Lenovo ThinkPad has a feature you can use to set charge thresholds (start charging when battery drops below a certain % and stop charging when battery reaches a certain %). That way if you like to leave the laptop plugged in all the time you can set it to stop charging at some percentage below 100%. Also, it's okay to charge more that 50%. Manufacturers ship new batteries at around 40%, because that's been determined to be the ideal state of charge for battery storage, not battery usage.
    bluezone1 likes this.
    01-08-12 09:47 PM
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