[omniusovermind]

1.) Not so sure about unhappy customers. In fact Sprint has 1.8mm new customers who will say they're happy with the screen size as is. In fact, many in this same forum would say that smaller screens are better. I, for one, don't own an iPhone and never will until the screen increases in size.
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you can't make that argument in a vacuum when you don't know how many switched to other platforms worldwide, on all carriers though.

[TinRobot]

It's true that the iPad has no Flash functionality. But the YouTube web interface works fine on an iPad, including making changes to channels or leaving comments. As far as paid content goes, I think most PlayBook users would enjoy a larger variety of quality options.

Yes It is true that you can see and edit a channel in the web app on an iPad. But you have to switch to the youtube app to see videos. A no go for me!

[Hyphenation]

Yes It is true that you can see and edit a channel in the web app on an iPad. But you have to switch to the youtube app to see videos. A no go for me!

That's incorrect. The YouTube web interface displays H.264 MPG video if your browser does not have the Flash plugin. Works fine on an iPad.

[TinRobot]

That's incorrect. The YouTube web interface displays H.264 MPG video if your browser does not have the Flash plugin. Works fine on an iPad.

Interesting. Do you have any idea how much of the content on youtube is in H.264?
Either way the landscape is changing all the time. It's hard to keep up, you know?

[[email protected]]

you can't make that argument in a vacuum when you don't know how many switched to other platforms worldwide, on all carriers though.

What vacuum? The 1.8mm are new customers. Sprint isn't international, so those numbers should only apply to the current U.S. market. I wasn't referring to net numbers. But I believe Sprint did say they sold close to 4mm or 5mm iPhones in the last Q and 1.8mm were new to Sprint.

I'm only commenting on the idea that many folks are unhappy with the IPhone's screen size.

[Hyphenation]

Interesting. Do you have any idea how much of the content on youtube is in H.264?
Either way the landscape is changing all the time. It's hard to keep up, you know?

YouTube's goal was to make all of their videos available as MPEGs as well as FLVs. I'm not sure if they've completed the conversion, but they started the practice in 2007 so it's a safe bet the entire library has been converted by now. Vimeo has followed suit.

[MartyMcfly]

Because of that, RIM had a very narrow window to play catch up with. By the end of this year, all of last years tablets are going to go the way of the iPad 1 and the Xoom 1. There's already numerous new players coming on the field this year sporting quad core processors. Intel has recently entered the CPU fray with the announcement of a single core mobile CPU that out-benchmarks all the current dual core contenders by something insane like 20% or more.

If it weren't for the big head start Apple has relied on with the iPhone they'd be hurting too. There's a lot of unhappy campers about the fact that they've been stuck with a 3.5" screen for so long with no confirmed end in sight, among other issues.

You have to shock and awe potential buyers if you want to keep in a rapidly changing race. I have absolutely zero illusions that I'm going to still be using this same tablet I am right now in late 2012 / early 2013. The company offering the best combination of Price + Hardware+ UI + OS + useful apps next year is going to get my purchase, regardless of who the maker is. For $200 RIM won me out for late 2011 / early 2012.

RIMM's been in the smartphone business longer than apple. They are the ones that had a head start. They refuse to evolve and create a product that enticed a majority of consumers. You are now seeing the results from their lack of vision. Can't blame apple for that.



Sent from my IPhone 4s using Tapatalk

[omniusovermind]

What vacuum? The 1.8mm are new customers. Sprint isn't international, so those numbers should only apply to the current U.S. market. I wasn't referring to net numbers. But I believe Sprint did say they sold close to 4mm or 5mm iPhones in the last Q and 1.8mm were new to Sprint.

I'm only commenting on the idea that many folks are unhappy with the IPhone's screen size.

When you quote a figure of +1.8M but neglect to show how many are lost to other platforms, that is an argument in a vacuum. What if the other numbers actually reflect a loss of business rather than a gain? only showing the 1.8 new customers shows a gain. finding out they lost double that number to other platforms doesn't. And if the last numbers I saw in Android OS growth compared to iOS are any indication, they're not doing nearly as well as they were. Enough of that though, I'm not going to get dragged into a huge market pattern quote war with tables and graphs, which these discussions invariably become

[[email protected]]

When you quote a figure of +1.8M but neglect to show how many are lost to other platforms, that is an argument in a vacuum. What if the other numbers actually reflect a loss of business rather than a gain? only showing the 1.8 new customers shows a gain. finding out they lost double that number to other platforms doesn't. And if the last numbers I saw in Android OS growth compared to iOS are any indication, they're not doing nearly as well as they were. Enough of that though, I'm not going to get dragged into a huge market pattern quote war with tables and graphs, which these discussions invariably become

Oh. I understand what you're saying now. I was only referring to iPhone sales. Not Sprint's gain/loss on a whole.

[zipped]

I am a bit perplexed on the app situation as well. More so for the future of PB as opposed to right now. If you look at the numbers Playbook sold one unit for every 19 iPads sold. Apple sold 15 million iPads in Q4 to what is being estimated of 800-950,000 thousand (total 2011 sales) for Playbooks. The industry is projecting Apple's Q1 "down" with 13 million units in anticipation of the iPad 3 release.

I went to CES this year and it was filled with iCrap accessories. Was surprised they let so many case and accessory hawkers display at a hardware show. They were just resllers and not even OEMs. With exception of the RIM floor space, I don't recall seeing a single Playbook accessory maker or even a Playbook beyond my own at the show. Kind of a big indicator on where the market lies.

With all the iPads being sold it is simple math why app developers are sticking with the tried and true. If you were to develop apps even with Apple taking a good portion of the fee your potential customer base crushes what is possible with PB. Heck, we don't have an OS 7 theme maker even released yet for our 9900's, 9810s, etc.

I looked around the net yesterday at the general poo-pooing of OS 2 by most of the major sites. I was hoping for a little good PR boost from the release however it wasn't the case. I have a 64Gb Playbook so when I say the following it is a bit painful. Divorced, kids live with the ex, and my kids all have Touches yet I can't Skype or even video conference with them or at least I haven't found an easy way. PB may have one of the best video chat apps available but there isn't anyone I know with a PB lol.

With an ex-wife who see's fit to take the last penny I have in my pocket, guess I am a bit worried about holding an obsolete piece of electronics or better yet unsupported (love the hardware as it does fly) by 2013. I don't know and I wince even when thinking about taking a look at Craigslist to see what I can get for a PB with OS 2 loaded.

Not posting this to see the flamethrowers brought out or lay out troll-bait. It's just numbers don't lie and RIM can't afford to support a platform with terrible sales numbers. No one even took into account the RIM were numbers boosted by the fire sales. Here's to hoping OS 2 makes more of a splash in the next month or so...

[missing_K-W]

What the PB does in its infancy in only 10 months available as a platform it exceeds that of the competition. We look to the web browser and native PIM....Both of these areas exceed that of what the competition offers by a large margin.

The PlayBook is a mobile computing device. QNX allows RIM the ability to dramatically up the performance capabilities of what's possible on a mobile device.

WP7, Android and iOS are committed to dumbing down on the mobile platform.

When you look at where the PB accelerates above that of the competition....This comes with a price. QNX allows a mobile device to do "more". The cost of doing "more", is felt through development time. It takes a lot longer to do "more". When we put that into perspective we have the ability to glimpse into the future. I like where RIM and QNX are headed.

It took RIM only 22 months to build the foundation of BB10...Expect to see a quick evolution over the coming year.

Apps will come. I for one utilize apps as a last resort. Some people are dependent on them. The PlayBook has a high octane, lightning fast browser....I can log onto my bank. Have full access to all the website offers, and accomplish everything I need to do in the same time as it takes to use many available apps. The biggest benefit I find as that many mobile apps have limited functioning and many people have to depend on their PC to do the rest. I have no need for a PC now.....That can't be said for other platforms IMHO.

I trust that RIM will be the first company to break the chains of being tied to a PC. At least that is what my research suggests.

[jthep]

What the PB does in its infancy in only 10 months available as a platform it exceeds that of the competition. We look to the web browser and native PIM....Both of these areas exceed that of what the competition offers by a large margin.

The PlayBook is a mobile computing device. QNX allows RIM the ability to dramatically up the performance capabilities of what's possible on a mobile device.

WP7, Android and iOS are committed to dumbing down on the mobile platform.

When you look at where the PB accelerates above that of the competition....This comes with a price. QNX allows a mobile device to do "more". The cost of doing "more", is felt through development time. It takes a lot longer to do "more". When we put that into perspective we have the ability to glimpse into the future. I like where RIM and QNX are headed.

It took RIM only 22 months to build the foundation of BB10...Expect to see a quick evolution over the coming year.

Apps will come. I for one utilize apps as a last resort. Some people are dependent on them. The PlayBook has a high octane, lightning fast browser....I can log onto my bank. Have full access to all the website offers, and accomplish everything I need to do in the same time as it takes to use many available apps. The biggest benefit I find as that many mobile apps have limited functioning and many people have to depend on their PC to do the rest. I have no need for a PC now.....That can't be said for other platforms IMHO.

I trust that RIM will be the first company to break the chains of being tied to a PC. At least that is what my research suggests.

I am not disputing the Playbook has an excellent browser which in many ways trumps the dedicated mobile sites/apps other tablets are running, but certain apps/subscription sites are block or have no support or functionality.

Yea, the PB can use a mobile app or real site for Youtube, Facebook, etc. or just use the real site or a mobile site. But things like Netflix, Hulu, Kindle, Skype should be made available to PB users. What would RIM have to do to make it happen?

Amazon recently updated their movie streaming and ruined Amazon Prime videos on the PB. Its like RIM is going backwards with support instead of forward? I blame RIM for the lack of vision in getting the major consumer apps/support. I mean even the defunct HP Touchpad and BB smartphones have a dedicated Kindle app, but Playbook doesn't? Really RIM?

I can stream Netlfix on any video game console, Android device, iOS device, but no RIM devices? Really RIM? Don't get me wrong, I luv the Playbook, but RIM is holding back its potential in not making deals with the big players in mobile apps.

[zipped]

I don't think they can make deals with the big boys. To add on to my diatribe earlier, Apple is projected to sell 48 million iPads THIS year. Why would anyone want to spend time to fund a team to develop a specific app for a limited audience as to what we represent. It's ROI simply put. Until there is a proven market for the PB we are going to have to look at Android for some of the better converted apps.

[jthep]

I don't think they can make deals with the big boys. To add on to my diatribe earlier, Apple is projected to sell 48 million iPads THIS year. Why would anyone want to spend time to fund a team to develop a specific app for a limited audience as to what we represent. It's ROI simply put. Until there is a proven market for the PB we are going to have to look at Android for some of the better converted apps.

I agree with part of what you are saying, but when RIM was the market leader in smartphones, they didn't prioritize this either. So this I think is more RIM's lack of vision than all the 3rd parties.

Has the window closed on bringing support for the big boy apps/sites? I don't think so. Even the defunct HP Touchpad has a dedicated Kindle app as do BB smartphones, so why not Playbook?

Also I wonder how Angry Birds is doing on Playbook. I mean is Rovio the company that made it making a profit on porting Angry Birds to Playbook? What about EA in their games?

I mean it probably costs close to nothing to to write the code for a Netflix, Hulu, Skype app, so the risk for those companies is minimal. I blame RIM for not cutting deals.

[djnshores]

why, why, why????? why is that people is so blind with apple products???

It's a pretty simple answer. People buy products with a purpose in mind that fits their needs. My son has an iPad which he uses among other things to entertain my two granddaughters. It is an entertainment device.

Until the Playbook can match the functionality of the iPad, he won't be buying one anytime soon. Perhaps you are the one that is blind.

Reminds me of an old joke that goes: Everyone is insane except you and me and I am not so sure about you!

As others have said, what does it matter?

[dbmalloy]

I will start my reply with a famous line from the Movies.... If you build it... they will come... This seemed to be RIM's mantra for the last couple of years.... There is no consperiacy in the media just lazy people. RIM thought if they built it people would buy it because they were that good... they were wrong... Ironically this too may be the undoing of Apple. The idea right now is Apple can do no wrong... Many thought the same of RIM....Well you got a peak of what is to come with the IPhone 4s... A lot of people were disappointed that outside of Siri not much really changed...but Apple got a pass. The Iphone 4s has had well documented hardware issues up the yazoo especially with cracked cases.....Need I remind you about how us consumers sinply did not know how to hold our nice new Iphone ....It certainly was not the attenna.....All indiactions is the IPad 3 will not be a leap forward for Apple as far as specs go... Like RIM did Apple is defining the market right now... but it they do not come out with a truely onnovative product in the next year you may start to see the slide the RIM is experienceing now..... and as RIM found out it does not take long to fall out of favour....Oddly if the BB 10 phones are as innovative as reported you just may see a reversing of RIM's self imposed slide.....

[missing_K-W]

I am not disputing the Playbook has an excellent browser which in many ways trumps the dedicated mobile sites/apps other tablets are running, but certain apps/subscription sites are block or have no support or functionality.

Yea, the PB can use a mobile app or real site for Youtube, Facebook, etc. or just use the real site or a mobile site. But things like Netflix, Hulu, Kindle, Skype should be made available to PB users. What would RIM have to do to make it happen?

Amazon recently updated their movie streaming and ruined Amazon Prime videos on the PB. Its like RIM is going backwards with support instead of forward? I blame RIM for the lack of vision in getting the major consumer apps/support. I mean even the defunct HP Touchpad and BB smartphones have a dedicated Kindle app, but Playbook doesn't? Really RIM?

I can stream Netlfix on any video game console, Android device, iOS device, but no RIM devices? Really RIM? Don't get me wrong, I luv the Playbook, but RIM is holding back its potential in not making deals with the big players in mobile apps.

This is just speculation. However certain apps may be apart of the BB10 official deployment. My research suggests that RIM is also committed to bringing some big name Apps to the platform through the NDK Cascades framework. Logically one would assume that RIM would want to showcase Cascades with some premier content. IMHO.

[zipped]

I agree with part of what you are saying, but when RIM was the market leader in smartphones, they didn't prioritize this either. So this I think is more RIM's lack of vision than all the 3rd parties.

Has the window closed on bringing support for the big boy apps/sites? I don't think so. Even the defunct HP Touchpad has a dedicated Kindle app as do BB smartphones, so why not Playbook?

Also I wonder how Angry Birds is doing on Playbook. I mean is Rovio the company that made it making a profit on porting Angry Birds to Playbook? What about EA in their games?

I mean it probably costs close to nothing to to write the code for a Netflix, Hulu, Skype app, so the risk for those companies is minimal. I blame RIM for not cutting deals.

Again the money chain - this is from Piper Jaffray analyst Gene Munster - 85-90% of all mobile app purchases (Android, Apple, Blackberry) are spent with iOS apps. Gene Munster estimated Apple has paid out $3.46 billion to developers which is a huge chunk of change. I know RIM said on its Devcon webcast it is paying big bucks but heck these numbers are probably the proof in the pudding.

I wonder if there is every any collusion in the industry where Apple does get first rights or even pays for exclusivity. Even Android apps lag iOS by months at times. I have no insight on this point just postulating...

[jthep]

I know it took even Android awhile before it got Netflix, but it got it. Why not RIM? Even video game consoles have Hulu+ and Netflix. I mean outside of Microsoft, the other two major hardware manufacturers in the video game industry are the Japanese companies, Sony and Nintendo that don't have the insane market caps of Microsoft, Google, or Apple.

So this whole RIM is too small for the big boy apps/iste support I am not buying, since even the smaller companies(in market cap, not market share) in the video game industry get this support. RIM needs to get on this...

[tstrike34]

Thank you guys for one of the most CONSTRUCTIVE topic threads I have ever read on Crackberry. It is informative, enlightening, and simply thought provoking.

I hope that Crackberry Kev, B1aze, Alec (from RIM), and even Thor(sten) are reading this thread with great interest.

To be frank, I believe you all just properly identified the problem and identified a key course of action.

I salute everyone on this thread including the OP.

Well done indeed!

[zipped]

I know it took even Android awhile before it got Netflix, but it got it. Why not RIM? Even video game consoles have Hulu+ and Netflix. I mean outside of Microsoft, the other two major hardware manufacturers in the video game industry are the Japanese companies, Sony and Nintendo that don't have the insane market caps of Microsoft, Google, or Apple.

So this whole RIM is too small for the big boy apps/iste support I am not buying, since even the smaller companies(in market cap, not market share) in the video game industry get this support. RIM needs to get on this...

I hope they do but to your analysis we are the bottom of the pile on market cap although I bet many, many of us 1 million PB adopters would hop on board buying product sold from these apps. Sony and Nintendo have far outsold BB. Example is early 2011 Wii had sold 34 million units, while DS had sold 47 million units.
Would love to hear from anyone (non RIM employee) that attended BB Devcon earlier this month to get their takeaways and thoughts. Perhaps that might be the best perspective on this.

[TheStoof]

If Playbook had the apps that iPad did, we'd have more ammo in trying to get them to jump to PB.

[kennyliu]

why, why, why????? why is my employer so blind about my potential???

i know i am not the most valuable and productive employee, but boy I've got potential. i should be paid at least 15 times more.

[jthep]

I hope they do but to your analysis we are the bottom of the pile on market cap although I bet many, many of us 1 million PB adopters would hop on board buying product sold from these apps. Sony and Nintendo have far outsold BB. Example is early 2011 Wii had sold 34 million units, while DS had sold 47 million units.
Would love to hear from anyone (non RIM employee) that attended BB Devcon earlier this month to get their takeaways and thoughts. Perhaps that might be the best perspective on this.

You are comparing apples to oranges, comparing units sold in video game consoles to smartphones. And with 70+ million active BB users worldwide and 1 million PB users, you are making it sound like RIM is a niche company and Nintendo or Sony are much larger?

RIM currently has a market cap of 7.7 billion when calculating the current value of their publicly traded stock and assets. Nintendo 18.8 billion, Sony 21 billion. All by current market standards would be dwarfed by their competitors in market cap, but are competitive in market share in their respective businesses.

Also all future RIM phones will have an interchangeable OS to the Playbook. BB10 and QNX 2.0 are said to be pretty much a variation on the same OS. Similar to what Apple has done in its mobile devices all using a version of iOS. So consumer apps on a BB market of 70+ million users that will eventually upgrade their phones is key to retaining the base and regain some lost market share.

Microsoft, Google, and Apple all have large market caps of about 200 billion or more for each. So Sony and Nintendo have held on strong against the much larger Microsoft in their business. RIM has declined in market share in recent years against the behemoths that are Apple and Google, but Microsoft is still trying to better establish itself in smartphones.

My point? RIM is a big enough company with a large enough user base that consumer apps would be profitable to these 3rd parties. On top of that, with the Android compatibility now on the Playbook, it is inexcusable why there would be no app support for things like Netflix or Kindle.

RIM needs to get their heads out of the sand and get onto consumer apps in their mobile devices...

[zipped]

In terms of raw market dollars for shares of a company's stock it is not relevant for this discussion. I should have specifically said market share in case there is any confusion. In this case RIM is the minority. I am referring to the number of users who can use these apps on a given platform which we are requesting for the PB.

The apps mentioned are typically used when connected to a large enough screen to be able to use them. Hence Wii, XBox, Playstation is what is considered a "like" base when compared to a platform designed for the Playbook such as Netflix. The Playbook is what we are requesting these apps for, not our phones. The numbers given represent possible users for the platform. If you want to check it out for total numbers of a specific platform you mentioned between Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo sold globally check it out at http://www.vgchartz.com/ Then you can see why these apps were released for those platforms and why possible not ours to date.

I won't even mention the install base of Android phones and Apple phones but yes again RIM would be in the minority despite the 70 million install base Blackberry has. Is this why there is a Skype App for BB phones but not for PB? I heavily agree it would be profitable for them to serve the RIM market. Perhaps when BB10 comes along and the platform is unified between phone and tablet then there would be a move in the direction of greater direct app support.

And no, obviously RIM does not command the market share for Playbooks. As I mentioned previously, I am also betting there are some agreements in place perhaps made on napkins over drinks where some of these apps will never make it to PB. Hulu is a great example, why in the heck wouldn't that be ported over? Why wouldn't Hulu want our $8/month for Plus? Isn't it strange they block it on our Flash supporting PB's, not even support us with the ported app yet I can watch it on a friends netbook for free via the web?

Anyhow, I have kept the conversation according to the thread topic. Market share is at play here and as of yet with only a million units +/- a 100k or so we don't command it....yet