[gwmadrigal]

Very interesting discussion. Certainly the potential for the playbook to grow and be competing head to head with the ios and android is possible but not probable. If you believe in RIM management, hey you can purchase the stock very cheap at 15 bucks. This was a stock that was trading in the 80s not very long ago. But the problem is not the hardware or the software but management. Management failed tremendously to deliver a real product for almost one year. QNX is a magnificent operating system, but so it was WebOS and look where it is right now. Hewlett Packard abandoned its project. RIM was abandoned for taking too long to deliver something. Apple is about to release ipad 3 and the playbook just delivered something they should have delivered a year ago. That is RIMs management failure.

RIM needs to do something about hulu and knock on their doors and strike a deal to remove that ridiculous lock. I mean, do something and if hulu is being used unfair, let the people know and let them decide. Same thing with netflix. I mean I just side loaded kindle app on my playbook and it's working perfectly normal like an android app. I can even upload some of my personal .mobi books and read them like in a regular kindle.

The playbook is being ignored by the major companies, but it is RIMs management failure not to do something about it to turn things around.


I also want to clarify to those who said that the playbook does not run kindle app. The kindle app runs on the playbook, but you cannot download it from the app world. if they really need it, do the side loading. It's very simple and it works.

I can also play Amazon prime videos perfectly okay. Somebody scared me saying that amazon changed something, but it's not true. Amazon prime videos play from the playbook browser.

[omniusovermind]

Managers being incompetent? Say it ain't so!

[tstrike34]

I could imagine that RIM has a management roadmap that Thor(sten) has communicated that is probably underway pending the post-wrapup of the PB 2.0 deployment.

To recall: I believe he communicated with Crackberry Kevin and several other outlets that changes will be made. Most have to understand that RIM needs a corporate culture change and adjustment to the paradigm shift that has occurred in both the phone and tablet communities. To that point, I firmly believe he can patch the holes and get the RIMPIRE ship going in the right direction.

What is great about this particular thread is that we eschewed the white noise and underwent genuine root cause analysis. After discussing root cause and disparities, real solutions are being discussed candidly.

My hope?

Thor cleans house (mid level managers be forewarned) and suffers no fools, revamps the morale of the worker bees (inspire them dammit), and get a top notch marketing firm onboard (buy them if you have to Thor).

Make a line of business that is USA solely to address the stiff competition in the that market whilst maintain the integrity of the International side of the house. RIM is a behemoth and we all know: "Rome was not built in a day."

I believe this will position RIM for higher CSAT ratings (thus building Apple-like brand loyalty), a staff and workforce that is highly and positively motivated, a company that is flexible to ever-changing market conditions, and a return to profitability.

There is an opportunity to get this done, but Thor (and ultimately RIM) must seize it and execute it.

[Orlan2]

WOW!!, I had a busy day after I posted this thread so I couldn’t check it anymore until now, I just read the whole 4 pages and there are plenty of interesting information that I didn’t had before and now I do, also a lot of comments I would love to reply too if I had the time now lol!, but all the replies were completely enlighten for me.

going back to the actual idea of this, after reading I did realized something, and is the apps game, without apps we are nothing, and I wasn’t realizing that before I wrote this, I mean there is apps for the PB but no the mass consumption apps that makes people buy the tablets, but still that doesn’t change my mind on how I think that the PB is way better than the Ipad, also what happens here is that they underestimate too much the BlackBerry products, they say they only thing it does have that its nice its BBM, when it’s not, I’ve been through 4 iPhone models, and had tons of apps, but none of them didn’t gave all the functionality that my BB has given to me! if I want to play I get a PS3 or a PS VITA or something like that, if I want a phone that works and do things well I get a BlackBerry like they say in here "tools not toys".

also the IOS is so restricted that if u don’t do jailbreak u aren’t going to be able to do a nice customization or looks change in the UI, from my point of view a ios device without jailbreak is just a bunch of things together in a screen, not something that can be turned whit customization in a complete different thing. And not just looks also tons of stuff that apple restricts due to copyrights or to avoid piracy, with this comment I don’t say I support piracy, but sometimes apps or other downloable stuff is just too expensive to pay for it, not been able to manage your IOS devices as usb drives takes a lot of advantages that we could have with those devices but hey no one notices that u have to be a complete slave of ITunes, and if for any reason by mistake u sync it with another computer with iTunes say bye bye to all you info until u restore in your computer again which is not cool at all.

[Orlan2]

I could imagine that RIM has a management roadmap that Thor(sten) has communicated that is probably underway pending the post-wrapup of the PB 2.0 deployment.

To recall: I believe he communicated with Crackberry Kevin and several other outlets that changes will be made. Most have to understand that RIM needs a corporate culture change and adjustment to the paradigm shift that has occurred in both the phone and tablet communities. To that point, I firmly believe he can patch the holes and get the RIMPIRE ship going in the right direction.

What is great about this particular thread is that we eschewed the white noise and underwent genuine root cause analysis. After discussing root cause and disparities, real solutions are being discussed candidly.

My hope?

Thor cleans house (mid level managers be forewarned) and suffers no fools, revamps the morale of the worker bees (inspire them dammit), and get a top notch marketing firm onboard (buy them if you have to Thor).

Make a line of business that is USA solely to address the stiff competition in the that market whilst maintain the integrity of the International side of the house. RIM is a behemoth and we all know: "Rome was not built in a day."

I believe this will position RIM for higher CSAT ratings (thus building Apple-like brand loyalty), a staff and workforce that is highly and positively motivated, a company that is flexible to ever-changing market conditions, and a return to profitability.

There is an opportunity to get this done, but Thor (and ultimately RIM) must seize it and execute it.

I completely agree with those thoughts, if management takes the right actions and looks forward for all the aps that are making the hype in other platforms and port them to theirs, it would be complete success, also hearing their costumers is one of the best things to do, something they should have done years ago.

[Mystic205]

there isnt..

the skype app is for verizon only and it isnt VoIP..it requires a cellular connection so you can CALL a gateway number.. pointless

. Is this why there is a Skype App for BB phones but not for PB?

[jthep]

Look, I am not saying the Playbook is not a good tablet, its actually my favorite. What I am saying is RIM is launching smartphones with BB10 which from what I have been reading on here for months will be virtually interchangeable with the QNX OS 2.0, similar to Apple and its mobile devices running some version of iOS.

So even if the PB currently has a very small market share in tablets, the BB phones running BB10 will in all likelihood quickly establish themselves due to the BB brand. If RIM does not get the major consumer apps on BB10/QNX 2.0, then they will be in the same p boat as now, losing market share to more consumer friendly Android and iOS mobile devices.

RIM needs to do whatever it can to get Hulu+, Netflix, etc. I am not worried about getting a library anywhere near as big as Android or iOS, but the major apps that consumers look for, it is inexcusable why RIM can't get it done. Especially now with Android apps being functional on the 2.0 OS.

[Orlan2]

Look, I am not saying the Playbook is not a good tablet, its actually my favorite. What I am saying is RIM is launching smartphones with BB10 which from what I have been reading on here for months will be virtually interchangeable with the QNX OS 2.0, similar to Apple and its mobile devices running some version of iOS.

So even if the PB currently has a very small market share in tablets, the BB phones running BB10 will in all likelihood quickly establish themselves due to the BB brand. If RIM does not get the major consumer apps on BB10/QNX 2.0, then they will be in the same p boat as now, losing market share to more consumer friendly Android and iOS mobile devices.

RIM needs to do whatever it can to get Hulu+, Netflix, etc. I am not worried about getting a library anywhere near as big as Android or iOS, but the major apps that consumers look for, it is inexcusable why RIM can't get it done. Especially now with Android apps being functional on the 2.0 OS.

not just those apps u just mentioned, they should do a ranking of the most downloaded and popular apps for both android and IOS and do what has to be done in order to make them available for BB10/QNX 2.0 user and future customers + a way better battery time in every device, that my friend would be a direct slap in the face for apple and Google.

[conix67]

I can't argue with most of that, but I can ask questions that I do want answered;

Can I use flash enabled websites on an iPad? No.
Can I see and maintain my YouTube channel on an iPad? No.
Can I reply to comments on my YouTube videos on an iPad? No.
Do I want to pay for downloaded content? No so why would I care about netflix etc.?

Only item I agree is flash. Try Youtube application on PB, you can't even get your own favorites. Of course, you can do all those on either ones through browser.

If flash is important, get PB. No doubt about it. However, as much as people look for "potential" of PB, just look at the "potential" of flash. There's none, especially in mobile space.

[jthep]

not just those apps u just mentioned, they should do a ranking of the most downloaded and popular apps for both android and IOS and do what has to be done in order to make them available for BB10/QNX 2.0 user and future customers + a way better battery time in every device, that my friend would be a direct slap in the face for apple and Google.

Agreed. If RIM has the major consumer apps at the launch of BB10 Blackberries, RIM could bounce back really fast. I think what is hurting RIM sooo much is when the average consumer says "What apps does this device have?" "Can I watch Netflix or Hulu on it?" "Can I use my Knidle library on it?"

Right now RIM is pulling the same BS it has in the past. And I am a little sick poeple on here making excuses like "Its not RIM, its the third parties!" No, BS! RIM was once the amrket leader in smartphones not too long ago and didn't even try to get the major consumer apps. Its still significant enough and has deep enough pockets that it still can, but actively chooses not to. RIM is to blame and even though I am a big fan of BB phones and I luv my PB, I am calling them out on it.

I mean I will be honest, I never wanted Hulu or Netflix on my tiny BB screen. But on the PB tablet? yes! Especially with the HDMI cord? It would be a coup for the PB. If it had Netlfix and Hulu along with an HDMI cord it suddenly becomes a beast as a consumer device.

Right now when someone asks me what the best tablet is, I generally answer with a question in what are they looking for in a tablet between size, functionality, etc. If the PB gets those major apps I would in a second say "Playbook!!!" without any further thought. It already has a great browser, HDMI support, the bridge for BB users for free data sharing, full sites, great screen resolution, great audio, a great price. Add consumer app functionality and you would hard pressed to name in any way the market leading iPad is better at anything!!!

[Mummy2]

Frustrating that as a BIS user, I can't simply sync Outlook using PB OS 2. I have to use a work around?! What was RIM thinking? By catering to the BES crowd only, they've given the lie to their supposed push to gain consumer sales. Oh, wait. All of those people on the fluorescent bikes and the musicians in the commercials either (a) don't want playbooks, (b) have a BES or (c) don't use Outlook. Give me a break.

Don't forget to take your vitamins and eat well.

[tstrike34]

Agreed. If RIM has the major consumer apps at the launch of BB10 Blackberries, RIM could bounce back really fast. I think what is hurting RIM sooo much is when the average consumer says "What apps does this device have?" "Can I watch Netflix or Hulu on it?" "Can I use my Knidle library on it?"

Right now RIM is pulling the same BS it has in the past. And I am a little sick poeple on here making excuses like "Its not RIM, its the third parties!" No, BS! RIM was once the amrket leader in smartphones not too long ago and didn't even try to get the major consumer apps. Its still significant enough and has deep enough pockets that it still can, but actively chooses not to. RIM is to blame and even though I am a big fan of BB phones and I luv my PB, I am calling them out on it.

I mean I will be honest, I never wanted Hulu or Netflix on my tiny BB screen. But on the PB tablet? yes! Especially with the HDMI cord? It would be a coup for the PB. If it had Netlfix and Hulu along with an HDMI cord it suddenly becomes a beast as a consumer device.

Right now when someone asks me what the best tablet is, I generally answer with a question in what are they looking for in a tablet between size, functionality, etc. If the PB gets those major apps I would in a second say "Playbook!!!" without any further thought. It already has a great browser, HDMI support, the bridge for BB users for free data sharing, full sites, great screen resolution, great audio, a great price. Add consumer app functionality and you would hard pressed to name in any way the market leading iPad is better at anything!!!

I have been highly resistant to statements like yours, but I must capitulate. You are right, its about the apps ecosystem and the lack thereof. The PB sits at the precipice of something very special in terms of having the hardware and OS to handle high end applications. And yes I strongly concur that the lack of highly demanded applications is a very damning and stern indictment of a company out of touch with its consumer base and ever-changing market conditions.

This is the first time ever I have actually agreed with this line of thinking since the PB's launch. To be frank, its quite humbling.

You are right to call BS and put RIM on the carpet.

[vbuckjr]

From scanning this I would say they just need the 10 most popular apps beginning with Skype to make use of that great front facing camera to call their iPad or laptop friends. Then Kindle and Audible even if it is the android version just make it easy to install on the PB. At the new price point the PB is definitely better than the Kindle Fire, if it had a Kindle, Audible, and Skype apps.

RIM needs to think cross platform, ways PB users can interact with, iPhone, iPad, and computers since there install base is smaller the chances of U.S.A friends having a PB are very small.

[rs422a]

It wasn't but a few years ago there were no "apps". Smartphones were used for email and conversing. Steve Jobs changed all that because he had the industry influence to strike deals early on geared towards consumer entertainment - which is what the Ipod, Iphone and Ipad are all about. Android didn't exsist at that time and RIM and Nokia seemingly rested on their laurels, perhaps thinking it was all just a fad. It wasn't. Now Nokia is all but gone (more R&D now than anything) and RIM is playing catch-up. I blame the lack of open-mindedness of the management at RIM. Perhaps this new guy will clean house and turn things around. hopefully, RIM will be able to woo companies to make interfaces for the PB. but it's going to take time. And in the ever shifting and rapidly changing currents of this market, time is not on your side.

[Apelles123]

why, why, why????? why is that people is so blind with apple products???

like ok i know they're cool and amazing, but is more flashy than anything else(at least for me) today i just grabbed a Playbook with OS 2.0 and it was awesome, so i just made a comment of how i think that the Playbook kicks the Ipad by so many things, and then everything started, everybody just said are u crazy??? have u gone mad?? here in my country there's not a lot of BlackBerry lovers for what it actually is(most of the people has it just because of BBM) but theres a complete world in BB besides the BBM, why does everybody thinks that every single product branded under BlackBerry is a piece of junk in front of apple products??

whats your decision? Ipad or Playbook? i stick to the playbook, not because i love BlackBerry, just because it proved to my eyes to be a better tablet than the ipad is!

Read "Apple PR's dirty little secret" by Jason O' Grady-Apple Core ZDNet blogs 2/15 which candidly discuses Apple's Blacklisting policy of Journalists who give Apple products any form of negative criticism. Tech journalists are scared. Hopefully this will be offset as Apple and Google/Android get in more trouble for privacy violations. Government action is needed !

[Orlan2]

Read "Apple PR's dirty little secret" by Jason O' Grady-Apple Core ZDNet blogs 2/15 which candidly discuses Apple's Blacklisting policy of Journalists who give Apple products any form of negative criticism. Tech journalists are scared. Hopefully this will be offset as Apple and Google/Android get in more trouble for privacy violations. Government action is needed !

Quite interesting!!!

[zipped]

Great point, yes this is timely as well. New York Times just got blacklisted which I heard as of last week. NYT used to get all the "scoops" now they can't get anything original to print for the new iHype 3. Too funny.

[kbz1960]

The issue also seems to be that RIM doesn't know how to reach the average consumer. Maybe solidifying their base is the best idea.

The problem, in my opinion, is that no other leading brand tablet was made to be dependent on or accentuated by an accompanying phone. Tabs are tabs and pones are phones.

So if R.I.M is going after the folks in the US who also use BB phones, then they're admitting that they only want 10 of the market.

If that's the case, the should significantly reduce the amount of PBs they produce and work their way from there.

I have no problem admitting that I only picked up the PB because of the sale. I don't use a BB phone.

I own a PB, Pad 2 and a Galaxy Tab. I like gadgets. I own an XBox 360 with Kinect, PS3 with MOVE and a Wii.

I updated my PB overnight and played around with it this morn. Cool changes, but nothing that knocked my socks off. It may have been overhyped and, I find myself somewhat indifferent to the update.

OT:

What IS interesting is that if you google "Reaserch In Motion" the second page of search results clearly lists a RIM proprietary link titled "New Playbook 2" tablet. Though it takes you to the PB 1. Would seem to suggest that RIM is getting prepared to launch a new device.

I think the overhype was only on here by people guessing about things. I got what I was expecting although still need tweaking and fixing.

[papped]

It wasn't but a few years ago there were no "apps". Smartphones were used for email and conversing.

How many years is "a few"? Because even s60v3 had a ton of applications, so I guess it must be far more than 5 years ago?

Maybe the public "thought" there was no apps because they think the mobile world started after the iphone?

[Orlan2]

How many years is "a few"? Because even s60v3 had a ton of applications, so I guess it must be far more than 5 years ago?

Maybe the public "thought" there was no apps because they think the mobile world started after the iphone?

Its not that they thought it started with the iphone, but we have to admit it, the iphone made a huge revolution in the mobile market, it made the average user to desire a smarthphone as a phone, not many user liked them, because they used to think they were too complex, so with the introduction of the Iphone all of that changed and we started to see more and more people using smarthphones, at least that's the cas in my country, before the iphone the hype here was the sony ericsson walkman phones which were really good!, we can say iphone put a before and after in the market just like the motorola razr V3 did with really slim phones.

[OttawaGabe]

If the Playbook debut today with OS 2.0 at the current price, then BOOM, it's a hit.

Problem is, it didn't. It debut 10 months ago at twice the price and 1/2 the functionality.

So does it deserve some of the negativity? Sure! RIM dug the hole with promises and expectation. That bitter taste _will_ take time to go away.

OS 2.0 isn't a cure-all, but it did fix some of the biggest problems. That along with the price finally makes the Playbook a real contender.

[papped]

Its not that they thought it started with the iphone, but we have to admit it, the iphone made a huge revolution in the mobile market.

I wasn't debating if the iphone changed the market or not, I'm saying there were a large number of applications on smartphones years before the iphone ever released.

[Orlan2]

I wasn't debating if the iphone changed the market or not, I'm saying there were a large number of applications on smartphones years before the iphone ever released.

I know what u meaned, I did myself had a SE W950 with S60V3 which was pretty awesome and had tons of apps but it wasn't as easy to use as the iphone that's why I said it made a huge revolution even though there were tons of apps in other platfomrs before the introduction of iphone

[gwinegarden]

dont ask a question you dont want to hear the answer to, but here we go..

From my perspective... I have an aversion to apple products..so i bought the iPad DESPITE it being an apple product..its that good.
To me, 18 months ago I viewed buying the playbook as an expensive toy with potential but little practical value.. I bought the iPad.

Netflix just works
Kindle just works
Xfinity tv just works
Skype just works
Google voice just works
GPS car navigation just works
all apps.. they just work...

I badly wanted to buy the playbook, and I still desire the smaller form factor, but the funny thing is, if i had purchased the playbook, I would no longer have a BB phone as there is no VOIP apps..whereas they are aplenty on android and iphone... at least the ipad covers my international communication needs.

the playbook still has potential, but the mass market doesnt purchase on potential...after all, in 12 months something better comes along..

Ok, run this on your ipad

http://blackberry.github.com/WebGL-Samples/tunneltilt/

[Orlan2]

Ok, run this on your ipad

http://blackberry.github.com/WebGL-Samples/tunneltilt/

What is that? I clicked it on my BB and it couldn't do anything! :P lol!