[conix67]

Things you might not know about Android player:
1. Android player was announced by RIM prior to launch but has only made it available to developers recently (it is included in the developers' beta version of OS 2.0).
2. Android player is not an admission of defeat - it is merely another way for developers to make apps available to PB users. The idea to make Android apps available is not some kind of act of desperation on RIM's part.
3. Android apps must be repackaged as real (repeat REAL) PB apps and submitted to app for approval. Upon approval, it is made available in App World. This is exactly the same process used to get native apps into App World.
4. Android market is NOT available on the PB; if you want to run an Android app on a PB you need to purchase it via App World.
5. When installed on a PB, an Android app is located on the device's home screen folders just like any other PB App. There will be differences in the app's behaviour (because it is a Android app after all) but the app is an equal citizen with all other apps on the device, enjoying fill access to the hardware and device services.
6. Most (sensible) native developers welcome Android apps to the device. Any strategy that RIM can devise to make the PB more attractive to more users is good for all developers. People will be active in App World on the device and will see all the different app - Android and Native - displayed in the categories side-by-side. I hope that people will see my AIR app and buy it - the more people who visit the Education category (perhaps looking for something else) the better. So again, Android apps on PB make me a very happy developer, even though I will probably submit an Android app myself.

I hope that I have cleared things up a little bit.. And soory about the long post.

No you haven't. There's not much new information there and some aren't quite accurate.
1. Provide a link to "Android Player" support prior to Playbook launch.
2. This is subjective.
3. Everyone knows this. RIM has to do this but this further limits choices.
4. Everyone knows this. You can get this through rooting though.
5. Everyone knows this. It has to be this way of course. However, Android apps don't get access to all hardware resources of PB, unless things change by the time release version is available.
6. Sensible developers? Can you name any developers of quality apps and their opinions?

Of course, if you're an Android app developer, the Android player will make you happier.

If I were a developer for tablets, what would I pick as primary platform? QNX? Android? iOS? The answer is rather simple. Chance of developers picking QNX native platform is getting slimer everyday unfortunately.

[BuzzStarField]

No you haven't. There's not much new information there and some aren't quite accurate.
1. Provide a link to "Android Player" support prior to Playbook launch.
2. This is subjective.
3. Everyone knows this. RIM has to do this but this further limits choices.
4. Everyone knows this. You can get this through rooting though.
5. Everyone knows this. It has to be this way of course. However, Android apps don't get access to all hardware resources of PB, unless things change by the time release version is available.
6. Sensible developers? Can you name any developers of quality apps and their opinions?

Of course, if you're an Android app developer, the Android player will make you happier.

If I were a developer for tablets, what would I pick as primary platform? QNX? Android? iOS? The answer is rather simple. Chance of developers picking QNX native platform is getting slimer everyday unfortunately.

Edit: Added link to RIM blog Inside BlackBerry dated 4 Apr 11:
http://blogs.blackberry.com/2011/04/...ybook-android/

Okay, believe what you want. I'm just a silly Java developer who came on board as a result of RIM's kind offer of a "free" playbook way back in December of last year. I was (and still am) a part of the developer community and still participate in the forums on RIM's site. Developers have been discussing the part that Android plays in the general scheme of things since RIM announced Android availability in March (or so) of this year. None of us are upset in the least about competition or any of the other things that you seem to just "know" we are apparently upset about. But you are the expert. Should I also be upset about the many of native c++ developers who are currently developing apps using the NDK? After all they are "competing" with me as well and it does not bother me in the least.

6. Sensible developers? Can you name any developers of quality apps and their opinions?

But really, your last comment is the one that really ticks me off. First of all, I happen to be a developer and the thousands of people who have purchased my app would classify it as being of considerable quality. Secondly, if you paid any attention at all to goings on at CrackBerry you will find several developers (including myself) who are discussing issues of concern to users and developers alike every single day. And nobody that I speak with has any animosity at all towards Android developers.

So if you want to follow some of those conversations all you have to do is search for threads that I have participated in both here and in the RIM developer forums. I go by my actual name there "MauriceRice". So please do your research before you make all sorts of wild assumptions about what native developers are thinking and feeling.

[EricB1968]

Wait, let me get this straight. I'm going to be able to have access to more apps for my pb and these apps were written for gingerbread android devices ? SWEEEEEET for more content. If it works on my Playbook, I'm a happy end user !!

[Unsure2]

BuzzStarField, thanks for the post and explanation. I have seen posts by some developers indicating it is not worth their while to provide versions of their iPad/Android programs for the Playbook, that the market is just too small--I believe one person indicated compared to the iOS market, nothing else was worthwhile You apparently think otherwise. Some developers apparently believe RIM has not done a very good job providing development tools and access.

Can you tell us how things look from your perspective? What keeps developers away? What would it take to get them to come? Is there some magic number in the user base that tips the balance?

[sosumi11]

No it is not admission of defeat. this is clearly smart business decision.

If RIM doesn't believe in their own platform, why should anyone else?

One thing that everyone is complaining about are apps. It is hard to make developers to develop large # of apps for new system.

Then why didn't RIM release a software development kit months prior to releasing the PlayBook? Apple had 500 apps on Day One of the App Store and 10,000 5 months later.

So what RIM did was to make extra easy for developers to gets to pb. everyone will make money on it. now in quick step literally thousands of new apps will be "natively" available to playbook. regular pb will not be able to tell the difference. What is wrong with that ?

Developers don't want "easy". They want quality tools to do "cool things". By running Android, RIM will become a commodity hardware maker, no different than a Dell or Samsung. This would be the worst thing they can do to help their brand. RIM is a symbol for security and Android is the Poster Boy for insecurity.

This is like BMW deciding to use Ford engines while they are trying to build a new and better BMW engine.

Guess which company looks better to the consumer.

[cbvinh]

As a Playbook owner, I want a nice selection of apps. The NDK came out just a couple of months ago. It'll take a while for devs to learn the system and get apps going. There's nothing RIM can do to speed up that process. RIM does have the ball rolling on the Android Player, which means, for now, about 7000 apps prepped ready to go when OS2.0 hits. When RIM releases OS2.0, hopefully in February 2012, I will be happy. I will have apps to tide me over until native apps are available. If I buy an Android app and find a native version later on, I will certainly pay for an upgrade or even buy it again. Most apps aren't that expensive. It's not like buying Photoshop CS5 for $150 or CS5 Extended for $1000.

[ekafara]

I would prefer native apps and will pick one over an android one any day. I'm kind of on the fence about it. One thing I do like about it is that it should bring down the price of apps on App World.

[bitek]

No you haven't. There's not much new information there and some aren't quite accurate.
1. Provide a link to "Android Player" support prior to Playbook launch.
2. This is subjective.
3. Everyone knows this. RIM has to do this but this further limits choices.
4. Everyone knows this. You can get this through rooting though.
5. Everyone knows this. It has to be this way of course. However, Android apps don't get access to all hardware resources of PB, unless things change by the time release version is available.
6. Sensible developers? Can you name any developers of quality apps and their opinions?

Of course, if you're an Android app developer, the Android player will make you happier.

If I were a developer for tablets, what would I pick as primary platform? QNX? Android? iOS? The answer is rather simple. Chance of developers picking QNX native platform is getting slimer everyday unfortunately.

of course that Rim does it because of lack of apps. QNX is new. IOS on ipad and iphone are the same. 500k did not show up in one year. Rim is migreating from one os to another. all apps for blackberry cannot be used on playbook. again i think this is great solution for rim. get thousands of apps to brand new os in short time. apps are only thing people are complaining about

[bitek]

Android player is a horrible idea and will do absolutely nothing to maintain any sort of customer loyalty. If your big selling point is running another companies apps because your own is absolutely horrible then yes of course that's a huge admission of failure.

Both apple and android make massive profit in app sales and establishes reoccurring customer base. Android apps through the android player in Playbook make NO money at all for rim, who already have to sell their tablet at a HUGE loss even to gain any traction at all.

The bottom of the line is agencies and development companies are just not interested in Playbook development. But you dont have to take my word for it. Just look at any cross platformdev tool statistics. The Playbook is actually doing worse in dev interest than windows phone 7.

I actually wrote a huge post about this and didn't get one single relevant response. It


seems most Playbook users don't want to hear ANYTHING remotely criticizing it at all which is doing rim a huge disservice.

no this is good idea. for playbook and qnx to get traction it needs lots of apps. this is what people seems to care about. you will thousands new apps on playbook. this is what people will care about not how it got there. this should help sales. the more pb sold the more apps bought the more interest from developers. pb is superior os and hardware it just needs more apps and android player is to say to get it quick and with little effort

[si_chindo]

I would argue that RIM would actually make money as well from Android apps purchased from app world. Considering the fact that the developer has to submit and get approval before they are able to post their app into Appworld means that RIM will have some control and a way to make money.

[conix67]

Edit: Added link to RIM blog Inside BlackBerry dated 4 Apr 11:
RIM

Okay, believe what you want. I'm just a silly Java developer who came on board as a result of RIM's kind offer of a "free" playbook way back in December of last year. I was (and still am) a part of the developer community and still participate in the forums on RIM's site. Developers have been discussing the part that Android plays in the general scheme of things since RIM announced Android availability in March (or so) of this year. None of us are upset in the least about competition or any of the other things that you seem to just "know" we are apparently upset about. But you are the expert. Should I also be upset about the many of native c++ developers who are currently developing apps using the NDK? After all they are "competing" with me as well and it does not bother me in the least.

6. Sensible developers? Can you name any developers of quality apps and their opinions?

But really, your last comment is the one that really ticks me off. First of all, I happen to be a developer and the thousands of people who have purchased my app would classify it as being of considerable quality. Secondly, if you paid any attention at all to goings on at CrackBerry you will find several developers (including myself) who are discussing issues of concern to users and developers alike every single day. And nobody that I speak with has any animosity at all towards Android developers.

So if you want to follow some of those conversations all you have to do is search for threads that I have participated in both here and in the RIM developer forums. I go by my actual name there "MauriceRice". So please do your research before you make all sorts of wild assumptions about what native developers are thinking and feeling.

I don't just believe. I see the facts, that's all that counts.

Where and when did I say the Android player is upseting developers? There's no reason for such, as it will benefit them, and RIM (in a way). Users? Maybe. But there's no longer incentive to develop PB native apps, do you consider this a good thing for RIM and PB, or users? If this is the way RIM is promoting developers to get their apps onto PB, why not just abandon QNX altogether and support Android??

Oh, you happened to be a developer, a JAVA developer who received a FREE PB from RIM.

OK, I'll be blunt and perhaps tick you off. We don't need thousands, or millions apps on PB. We need just a few quality apps on them. Unfortunately, those quality apps I'm referring to, few are done by individual developers. Not saying it can't be done.

Quality software development takes resource. For business to invest in certain product, it has to have potential to provide revenue for them. Unfortunately, for most businesses, first choice is iOS, second Android, and many are having trouble looking past these two.

Let me ask you - are you developing PB native apps?

[loneweasel]

Judging from the latest earnings call, the BBX phone is not going to be able to save QNX or RIM. By the time it comes out, everyone else would have quad-core LTE out. Even if BBX turns out to be a modest success (which is silly to say), it will not be successful enough to revive interest in native QNX app development. The PB doesn't look to have any future past OS2.

In fact I'm really worried about the Feb deadline for OS2 now. I'm not asking much. Adding MKV and usb otg support would have more than justified my firesale purchase. However, RIM really doesn't know what they are doing. I'm afraid OS2 is going to be delayed again or they are going to rush a half baked version and call it a day.

[si_chindo]

I would argue that RIM would actually make money as well from Android apps purchased from app world. Considering the fact that the developer has to submit and get approval before they are able to post their app into Appworld means that RIM will have some control and a way to make money.

[conix67]

I would argue that RIM would actually make money as well from Android apps purchased from app world. Considering the fact that the developer has to submit and get approval before they are able to post their app into Appworld means that RIM will have some control and a way to make money.

Actually, there's no argument. Android Player will benefit RIM, at least for short term. In the long run, is this a right strategy? If at least Android Player guarantees 100% compatibility, that would be an entirely different story.

Many, of not most, developers are focusing on iOS and Android, as these two cover majority of smartphone/tablet market share, and foreseeable future.

The downside of Android Player is less incentive for developers to invest in native PB or BB10 apps. One can argue this a good thing or bad thing, but clearly it's not a good thing for RIM if BB10 or QNX is the future of RIM in the long run.

[TgeekB]

Android player should increase interest from consumers. The more PB's sold the better. Everyone argues that apps sell so here we go. Now we can have out native BB email, calendar, bridge, etc. along with the apps some crave. The added interest and sales may convince devs to develop more apps for the PB but we will have to see.

[TBone4eva]

If RIM doesn't believe in their own platform, why should anyone else?




Then why didn't RIM release a software development kit months prior to releasing the PlayBook? Apple had 500 apps on Day One of the App Store and 10,000 5 months later.



Developers don't want "easy". They want quality tools to do "cool things". By running Android, RIM will become a commodity hardware maker, no different than a Dell or Samsung. This would be the worst thing they can do to help their brand. RIM is a symbol for security and Android is the Poster Boy for insecurity.

This is like BMW deciding to use Ford engines while they are trying to build a new and better BMW engine.

Guess which company looks better to the consumer.

Most consumers wouldn't even know, nor care that it was a Ford engine so it wouldn't matter as long as the performance was there. It would only matter to the diehard BMW fanatics. It really doesn't matter to the average consumer whether it's a native app or Android app as long as it works and does what it's supposed to. You download an android app the same way you download a native app and you click on the icons just the same. You wouldn't even know that it's an android app if they could get the UIs to match.

[bitek]

Most consumers wouldn't even know, nor care that it was a Ford engine so it wouldn't matter as long as the performance was there. It would only matter to the diehard BMW fanatics. It really doesn't matter to the average consumer whether it's a native app or Android app as long as it works and does what it's supposed to. You download an android app the same way you download a native app and you click on the icons just the same. You wouldn't even know that it's an android app if they could get the UIs to match.

This is my point exactly people just do not care how apps get to the app world or what language they are written in. people want selection and this is what rim will give to them.
Rim will make money on all apps no mather if this is qnx or android app. the player is bold move on Rim part. no one has done this before and for this i applaud rim.

[bitek]

Judging from the latest earnings call, the BBX phone is not going to be able to save QNX or RIM. By the time it comes out, everyone else would have quad-core LTE out. Even if BBX turns out to be a modest success (which is silly to say), it will not be successful enough to revive interest in native QNX app development. The PB doesn't look to have any future past OS2.

In fact I'm really worried about the Feb deadline for OS2 now. I'm not asking much. Adding MKV and usb otg support would have more than justified my firesale purchase. However, RIM really doesn't know what they are doing. I'm afraid OS2 is going to be delayed again or they are going to rush a half baked version and call it a day.

i believe that rim grows bb user base year after year. not shrink so now tell me
where do you think 75mil BB users will go ? just vanish ?
99% users do not follow rim stock and they just do not care. they just want to have a phone

[BuzzStarField]

BuzzStarField, thanks for the post and explanation. I have seen posts by some developers indicating it is not worth their while to provide versions of their iPad/Android programs for the Playbook, that the market is just too small--I believe one person indicated compared to the iOS market, nothing else was worthwhile You apparently think otherwise. Some developers apparently believe RIM has not done a very good job providing development tools and access.

Can you tell us how things look from your perspective? What keeps developers away? What would it take to get them to come? Is there some magic number in the user base that tips the balance?

What is keeping developers away? The answer is simple economics: Nobody is making enough money because not enough people are buying apps of any kind in App World.

So a better question would be: "What is stopping people from buying PlayBooks?" or to put it another way: "How can RIM make consumers think twice before they pick up an iPad or an Andrroid tablet and take it to the checkout counter?"

MY previous post was directed at those who believe that the Android player is an "admission of defeat" on RIM's part or that native developers are discouraged by the availability of Android apps on the PlayBook. Such ideas just don't make any sense. We want RIM to do everything possible to attract new PlayBook users who are willing to buy the device.

I only speak for myself but I believe that the majority of PB developers are in the game at this moment for two reasons:
1. We are hoping that PB sales will eventually take off and we think it is a good idea to get in early and make a niche for ourselves. We are making an investment in sweat equity in the hope that RIM will eventually get its act together and sell a couple of million PlayBooks.
2. We love programming and we are having fun. We are a bit vain and just enjoy it when people give us positive feedback via emails or reviews in App World. We either sell versions of our apps on other (more profitable) platforms or we have real daytime jobs in order to support our eating habit.

So you can see that if you are developer making money by selling your great AIR app on iOS and Android tablets, you might be inclined to run your app through RIM's conversion tool and submit it to App World. And this is a really good way to make the PlayBook more attractive to consumers. And the larger user-base is a good thing for all developers.

[bitek]

What is keeping developers away? The answer is simple economics: Nobody is making enough money because not enough people are buying apps of any kind in App World.

So a better question would be: "What is stopping people from buying PlayBooks?" or to put it another way: "How can RIM make consumers think twice before they pick up an iPad or an Andrroid tablet and take it to the checkout counter?"

MY previous post was directed at those who believe that the Android player is an "admission of defeat" on RIM's part or that native developers are discouraged by the availability of Android apps on the PlayBook. Such ideas just don't make any sense. We want RIM to do everything possible to attract new PlayBook users who are willing to buy the device.

I only speak for myself but I believe that the majority of PB developers are in the game at this moment for two reasons:
1. We are hoping that PB sales will eventually take off and we think it is a good idea to get in early and make a niche for ourselves. We are making an investment in sweat equity in the hope that RIM will eventually get its act together and sell a couple of million PlayBooks.
2. We love programming and we are having fun. We are a bit vain and just enjoy it when people give us positive feedback via emails or reviews in App World. We either sell versions of our apps on other (more profitable) platforms or we have real daytime jobs in order to support our eating habit.

So you can see that if you are developer making money by selling your great AIR app on iOS and Android tablets, you might be inclined to run their apps through RIM's conversion tool and submit it to App World. And this is a really good way to make the PlayBook more attractive to consumers. And the larger user-base is a good thing for all developers.

your are developer and the best proof that android player makes sense for the reasons you just have mentioned !

[bitek]

I know this is old thread but now that OS2 is out we can better judge if Android player is good for future of PB.

Personally i think that it is. I think Dolphin Browser HD is great example. I remember this app when I side loaded it PB. Now that I have official release from app store I can see differences. For one this browser was adopted for playbook. Nowhere it says this is android app at all. Average joe will have no idea. Getting all these new android apps through BB app store makes so much sense. All of them are approved to make sure that they will work well with pb. Great idea non the less.

Also Google Maps and Docs are working on this browser on Playbook. !!!!!!!!!!!