01-22-12 11:13 PM
99 ... 234
tools
  1. rmah's Avatar
    Really? This is the headline from Apple's press release on the subject: "Apple Reinvents Textbooks with iBooks 2 for iPad" and to quote from the press release:

    Apple® today announced iBooks® 2 for iPad®, featuring iBooks textbooks, an entirely new kind of textbook that’s dynamic, engaging and truly interactive.(emphasis added)

    So yeah, they are taking credit for inventing this type of interactive textbook. I'm not saying it, they are. Just like they took credit for having the "world's thinnest notebook" when Sony had a thinnner one out for almost a year, and many more examples that the public (and media) laps up and never checks sources on, buliding this "innovative" mystique that in reality doesn't exist. I struggle to think of a single, yes one, technological innovation that Apple actually came up with.
    It's just Apple marketing. Revolutionary this and that and such. There are those that disagree (and rightfully so) but there is also a large number of people that lap it up, so why would they care to change their approach? It works.

    As for the eTexts, I'm not sure it will catch on. They will need the backing of all the major publishers to not just release the normal texts in electronic format, but release them with value added. And depending on how 'open' the text app store is, content curation could become a nightmare.

    On the plus side, eTexts would technically allow for publishers to update texts on the fly, although I somewhat doubt they'd do so without being able to make more money (i.e. package it as a new release). That and the obvious advantage it would have over having to carry around a ton of books.

    Nonetheless it will be interesting to see how university texts are priced, if there will be DRM, if it will involve timed license access, and how it will all play out.
    01-21-12 12:37 PM
  2. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    What drives me crazy about this, like most other Apple "innovations", is that the tech press, and many members here are responding as if Apple has invented something here. They haven't. This has been around a long, long time. The format, content, publishing, etc, ALL has been around, and successfully developed and sold for a long, long time. See Ingram Books for an example of a company that has been doing this sucessfully for a long time.

    One more in a line of Apple "innovations" that they had nothing to do with innovating, but Joe Public thinks they came up with it. And, they're already taking credit for it.

    They have the best, bar none, the best strategic marketing department of any company in the World today. That's the area where they innovate (and industrial design). It's not the technology.
    I don't think the tech press is being fooled at all, everyone knows that Apple excels in taking existing ideas and repackaging them in ways that are very successful. Even Jobs admits this in his biography. Apple takes risks that no other company typically would, CEOs are very risk adversed these days, so I do give kudos to Apple for that. Just think of it, the reason tablets never took off before the iPad is mainly because Joe Blow CEO who manufactures computers firmly believed that it would cannibalize sales of their computers. Apple took the risk, and Mac sales actually increased.

    In the case of textbooks, another great example of repackaging something that is out there and making it simple. Why hasn't any other large tech company thought of this to increase hardware sales? They probably didn't want to take the risk. Is 'repackaging' and selling millions and millions a form of innovation? Maybe, maybe not. But it appears that Apple is always the first at changing the game.

    (as a side note, I don't see interactive e-textbooks as being a true game changer, but it might help kids who have learning problems or just need extra coaching)
    01-21-12 12:38 PM
  3. anthogag's Avatar
    The only thing Apple re-invented is baloney.

    Wikipedia is almost the same thing. If they made Wikipedia for the tablet where the user interacted with animation snippets on the screen it would be the same thing.

    Anyone can make articles in Wikipedia. Teachers should use this and design courses with that resource. Teachers can use links to take students to all the needed information.

    Wolfram Alpha (Mathematica) provides excellent learning animations.

    Textbook learning is out-of-date...a little less now since Apple added pictures and animations....it's like....a....children's book
    01-21-12 12:40 PM
  4. jonty12's Avatar
    I think that is marketing gone amuck. Apple did not invent interactive books. Even narrowing the claim down to textbooks is a stretch, to say the least. They certainly have introduced a product that adds to the genre. I suspect their product will have a much more noticeable impact on the industry than those that have gone before, just as with mp3 players, phones, and tablets. In that sense, they are reinventing the textbook. It is not just a matter of design, but business model and accessible authoring tools. Still, I agree that the marketing line is inaccurate.
    I love answers like this - and I get them a lot from supporters of certain products when truth is presented to them.

    We go from "That's outrageous! I'm just as indignant as you if what you say is true" to, when I demonstrate that it is true, a response that yes, uses words like "marketing gone amuck" and an initial acknowledgement that they didn't invent interactive books very quickly to an attempt to justify the methods they use (methods include outright lies) see the bolded portion above. Suddenly the indignation and outrage is all gone.

    Their success in the market has absolutely nothing to do with whether they have invented or reinvented anything. It has to do with, as I said in my original post, the world's best strategic marketing department. If I invent a time machine and sell one, and two years later you sell a million similarly designed time machines because your advertising was better, it doesn't mean you "reinvented" my invention.

    I'm checking out now, because I know you'll come back with some other sort of "justification", I won't make a dent in your belief, and I don't have enough time to waste going back and forth. I only request you think about your "outrageous" and "indignant" response and think why when it's Apple, it's not outrageous and you're not indignant.
    01-21-12 01:02 PM
  5. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    Their success in the market has absolutely nothing to do with whether they have invented or reinvented anything. It has to do with, as I said in my original post, the world's best strategic marketing department. If I invent a time machine and sell one, and two years later you sell a million similarly designed time machines because your advertising was better, it doesn't mean you "reinvented" my invention.
    You're oversimplifying. Their great Marketing Department did not help them when they made the Apple III, the Lisa, or the original Mac (it was too expensive, no amount of Marketing sold the thing until the price came down), or the MacIntosh Portable, or the Newton, or the PowerMac, etc etc. And they marketed heavily back then, it's just that the products more or less didn't meet expectations.

    Repackaging is different than re-inventing. The reason your time machine might not have sold is that you had to clamp a 220 volt power supply to your crotch. It doesn't mean my advertising was better, it just means that I smartly made the power supply clamp to a flux capacitor, thus saving my crotch, and that's what people liked better.
    01-21-12 01:33 PM
  6. grncherry1's Avatar
    The only thing Apple re-invented is baloney.

    Wikipedia is almost the same thing. If they made Wikipedia for the tablet where the user interacted with animation snippets on the screen it would be the same thing.

    Anyone can make articles in Wikipedia. Teachers should use this and design courses with that resource. Teachers can use links to take students to all the needed information.

    Wolfram Alpha (Mathematica) provides excellent learning animations.

    Textbook learning is out-of-date...a little less now since Apple added pictures and animations....it's like....a....children's book
    Got it,it's like the "Leapfrogging the competition "statement.
    01-21-12 01:44 PM
  7. Toodeurep's Avatar
    Got it,it's like the "Leapfrogging the competition "statement.
    I agree that most these marketing ploys are subjective and often tread the line of lying, but just for my education, does anybody else allow you to use a tool like the bluetooth bridge to make your tablet an extension of your phone? If so, did they back in April 2011? If not, RIM and their Playbook did in fact perform a leap.

    I love my Apple products but in all fairness, people really do buy into the hype surrounding their releases many times to a fault.
    01-21-12 02:18 PM
  8. nasa25's Avatar
    I fail to see why every apple related thread has to turn into apple haters feeling butthurt and providing 1.5 million reasons why apple sucks.

    Yes its true that Apple did not invent eTextbook. Just like they didn't invent the tablet.

    But who gives a , they're worth $390.6B!
    01-21-12 02:30 PM
  9. Toodeurep's Avatar
    I fail to see why every apple related thread has to turn into apple haters feeling butthurt and providing 1.5 million reasons why apple sucks.

    Yes its true that Apple did not invent eTextbook. Just like they didn't invent the tablet.

    But who gives a , they're worth $390.6B!
    You can tell it has been a while since any noteworthy release. We are like a family snowed in and going at each others throats. C'mon OS2, give us something new to play with.
    01-21-12 02:45 PM
  10. Unsure2's Avatar
    Apple was never first with anything that I can think of, except for maybe a few failures--remember the Newton? But, Apple has been good at recognizing when a particular technology has developed to the point that Apple can step in, repackage it, and set up a system for marketing it.
    01-21-12 03:06 PM
  11. grncherry1's Avatar
    Apple was never first with anything that I can think of, except for maybe a few failures--remember the Newton? But, Apple has been good at recognizing when a particular technology has developed to the point that Apple can step in, repackage it, and set up a system for marketing it.
    It doesn't matter, the game is who sells the most phones or tablets. If you are not smart enough to be innovative, and have poor marketing skills, then you loose. Simple.
    01-21-12 03:52 PM
  12. Peritaxis's Avatar
    Nothing in it suggest there is a long-term problem with reading something like, say, a textbook from a tablet device. The tablet can be fitted with a glare reducing shield, ergonomically positioned, an regular breaks can be taken. These studies say nothing of the greater causes of eye strain such as squinting at print that is uncomfortably sized in poor lighting conditions.

    I pointed out that the iPad mitigates against that strain in a couple of additional ways. If the PB did get the scanned PDFs that some were calling for upthread, it would be more of a health issue as it has none of these mitigating factors at half the size. It would actually cause more eye strain. If that's what you meant, I completely agree.

    None of that made sense to me. You dismiss more comfortable fonts and spoken text offered in the product as meaningless. You compare it to a $25 CD player and differentiate school-age children from blind people as if students can't also be blind. If feels like you are just arguing against the Apple initiative and not for eye health when I read a paragraph like that. My bad.

    I would say that we should just get back on topic, but I didn't find the original topic all that flattering to RIM. The topic seems to be debating the merits of iBooks textbooks. We can dismiss it with no counterpoint, or discuss all sides of it like adults without taking and giving offense. I apologize for giving offense.
    If you reread it, they said these things (anti-glare filters, ergonomic position, eye breaks) MAY help improve visual comfort, NOT remove it completely. Of course, there haven't been longterm studies, LCD screens have only been more available to the consumers for maybe 10 years because of cheaper production costs. It's like complaining about Hormone Replacement Therapy: it works to preserve bone but there are unknown longterm side effects, we won't know until later. Bam, later comes and these women have higher risk of breast cancer and Coronary Heart Disease, now it is not as common a treatment due to these effects. Who knows, maybe in 30-40 years we will see higher rates of Glaucoma or something, and they'll pin it down to LCD usage. We won't know until time actually passes. Remember, human eyes were not evolved the last 10000 years for the sole purpose of LCD screens.

    If you're unhappy with my previous sources, here is a very good recent one: "A comparison of symptoms after viewing text on a computer screen and hardcopy." And texts were same size and contrast, also used the same target viewing angle and luminescence. Guess what, those with the screen reported more discomfort. Symptoms following sustained computer use were significantly worse than those reported after hard copy fixation under similar viewing conditions. A comparison of symptoms after viewin... [Ophthalmic Physiol Opt. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

    You brought blind students into the conversation, not me. And teaching a blind student would be different from ones with sight. I didn't doubt the iPads will help the blind kids. You only tried to distract from the main point by bringing other points in to try to frame the iPad on the podium again like these kids MUST have this initiative. You attacked the PlayBook's size out of nowhere again to promote the iPad. You could easily say the Samsung 10.1" have the same mitigating factors because of its 10" size too. Maybe you are slightly blinded by your Apple devotion.
    01-21-12 04:06 PM
  13. anthogag's Avatar
    If you reread it, they said these things (anti-glare filters, ergonomic position, eye breaks) MAY help improve visual comfort, NOT remove it completely. Of course, there haven't been longterm studies, LCD screens have only been more available to the consumers for maybe 10 years because of cheaper production costs. It's like complaining about Hormone Replacement Therapy: it works to preserve bone but there are unknown longterm side effects, we won't know until later. Bam, later comes and these women have higher risk of breast cancer and Coronary Heart Disease, now it is not as common a treatment due to these effects. Who knows, maybe in 30-40 years we will see higher rates of Glaucoma or something, and they'll pin it down to LCD usage. We won't know until time actually passes. Remember, human eyes were not evolved the last 10000 years for the sole purpose of LCD screens.

    If you're unhappy with my previous sources, here is a very good recent one: "A comparison of symptoms after viewing text on a computer screen and hardcopy." And texts were same size and contrast, also used the same target viewing angle and luminescence. Guess what, those with the screen reported more discomfort. Symptoms following sustained computer use were significantly worse than those reported after hard copy fixation under similar viewing conditions. A comparison of symptoms after viewin... [Ophthalmic Physiol Opt. 2011] - PubMed - NCBI

    You brought blind students into the conversation, not me. And teaching a blind student would be different from ones with sight. I didn't doubt the iPads will help the blind kids. You only tried to distract from the main point by bringing other points in to try to frame the iPad on the podium again like these kids MUST have this initiative. You attacked the PlayBook's size out of nowhere again to promote the iPad. You could easily say the Samsung 10.1" have the same mitigating factors because of its 10" size too. Maybe you are slightly blinded by your Apple devotion.


    It probably only eats foods with apple ingredients...apples, apple pie, apple juice, chicken with apples, apple salad...
    01-21-12 05:44 PM
  14. conix67's Avatar
    It probably only eats foods with apple ingredients...apples, apple pie, apple juice, chicken with apples, apple salad...
    Sounds like a healthy recipe to me. Lots of apples!
    01-21-12 05:45 PM
  15. dandbj13's Avatar
    You brought blind students into the conversation, not me. And teaching a blind student would be different from ones with sight. I didn't doubt the iPads will help the blind kids. You only tried to distract from the main point by bringing other points in to try to frame the iPad on the podium again like these kids MUST have this initiative. You attacked the PlayBook's size out of nowhere again to promote the iPad. You could easily say the Samsung 10.1" have the same mitigating factors because of its 10" size too. Maybe you are slightly blinded by your Apple devotion.
    The visually challenged students I brought up were not a smoke screen. You are just factually wrong when you say the iPad will not help blind kids. It is about full accessibility. I will not bother to explain the particulars. Just know that accessibility is an important ingredient for schools to consider adopting technology. iBooks on the iPad meets that requirement in ways that no other tablet does. Such considerations were baked into the DNA of the device and system. It democratizes textbooks for people with disabilities, believe it or not.

    As for Sammy and others, they do not have a system for reading textbooks with scalable fonts and text to speech. So, no, I don't think they do have the same mitigating factors. If you are going to put so much venom into hating on the iPad, you should get to know what makes it different. Bottom line, this is a good initiative for reasons I doubt RIM would know how to imagine. It is not in their corporate DNA. They have other competencies. Frankly, RIM probably sees this initiative much the same way many of you see it. Which is exactly why you don't see things like this coming from RIM.
    01-21-12 07:09 PM
  16. dandbj13's Avatar
    It probably only eats foods with apple ingredients...apples, apple pie, apple juice, chicken with apples, apple salad...
    Excuse me! Did you just call me an "it"? Now, I am sub-human? You don't even try to make a salient point about the topic. You just go into full, personal attack mode as if you have a free pass from the mods. And you think I'm the problem? Wow!
    01-21-12 07:14 PM
  17. cntrydncr223's Avatar
    Someone please close this thread...
    This in unproductive...
    01-21-12 07:22 PM
  18. cbvinh's Avatar
    Apple's iBooks initiative isn't about helping education, but about selling iPads. The big clue is that they're forcing content providers to supply content for cheap while not making any commitments to lowering the price of hardware to make it accessible to everyone. This follows the current Apple model: sell expensive hardware and dictate to content providers how much their content should be sold for.

    Should RIM follow this path? No.
    01-21-12 11:17 PM
  19. addicted44's Avatar
    Apple was never first with anything that I can think of, except for maybe a few failures--remember the Newton? But, Apple has been good at recognizing when a particular technology has developed to the point that Apple can step in, repackage it, and set up a system for marketing it.
    This is only even close to being true if you think in narrow components terms (but even then, it isn't true).

    Apple thinks in terms of entire connected systems, and end to end experiences.

    So, for example, the iPod wasn't the first MP3 player, or the first Hard Disk MP3 player (although the scroll wheel was a dramatic breakthrough). What the iPod did provide, however, was the ONLY MP3 player which could essentially carry your entire music library (and this refers largely to CDs, since that was the majority of people's music library at the time) that could be uploaded onto the iPod in a matter of minutes, as opposed to nearly a day for the rest (a consequence of using Firewire). But even that understates what made the iPod really take off (after the iTunes Store was released).

    Apple provided the first system, where you could dramatically easily acquire music (new music through 1-click purchase from the iTunes Store, or old music through 1-click CD-ripping in the iTunes App), which would then automatically and nearly instantaneously sync with your iPod (while charging the iPod at the same time) that could easily be accessed on the iPod (using the easy to use scroll wheel) and then could conveniently extended to a multitude of other devices (through the usage of 3rd party docks using the standard 30 pin connector, which continues to be used today). The seamlessness of the entire process was indeed a first, and the primary reason for Apple's success.

    RIM needs to achieve the same thing with Blackberry and Playbook. The biggest problem with stuff like missing native email, etc. in the first Playbook was that it damaged the seamlessness of using the device. Having to bridge it with your Blackberry to gain some basic functionality added another inconvenient step in the process. With OS2 this has been addressed, and Bridge has been enhanced where instead of being another inconvenient step in achieving basic functionality, it provides additional functionality (e.g., being able to use your BB to control your PB). It is now enhancing seamlessness, as opposed to hurting it. These are all steps in the right direction (although, I still think RIM shouldn't have done this, because Playbooks are never going to sell in enough quantity to justify distracting resources from BB development, but that is a different matter altogether).
    01-22-12 12:21 AM
  20. conix67's Avatar
    Apple's iBooks initiative isn't about helping education, but about selling iPads. The big clue is that they're forcing content providers to supply content for cheap while not making any commitments to lowering the price of hardware to make it accessible to everyone. This follows the current Apple model: sell expensive hardware and dictate to content providers how much their content should be sold for.

    Should RIM follow this path? No.
    The question is not whether or RIM should, it's more like if RIM can.

    Apple's so called expensive hardware, isn't expensive to the eyes of competitors which is exactly the reason there haven't been a good competition in the new tablet PC market.

    It has already been discussed if you take into account the current price of text books, price iPad will already have been paid for after few text book purchases, so that point is moot.

    Apple keeps pounding on competitors by entering new market earlier before others are ready. RIM's focus has always been enterprise market, and Apple's been always putting significant interest in education market ever since Apple II days.

    It is a smart move, since Education market is the market that will never die, and will see steady growth even through recession as more high tech methods are adapted. It makes perfect sense for anyone to try to penetrate into education market.

    To me, well implemented text books with a large amount of multimedia content is simply awesome. Sure, RIM should consider this market, and it's better to be late than never.
    01-22-12 08:33 AM
  21. jackpots's Avatar
    I guess it is me, but folks here can be too emotional, vis-a-vis being rational.

    I see this as a smart move for Apple, because it is only being vertical and leveraging its iPad product; 2) its creates a new pfoduct for its sales cycles (companies need multiple revenue streams to balance out the ups and downs of natural market forces); 3) in today's world enterprise and consumer application is only marketing, and the consumers will force their companies to adopt; 4) consumers as kids become devoted as adults, and us grown-ups will not care about tech as we get older; and lastly 5) this is proven and already adopted technology as html based reference materials are common place - microsoft has been using chm for about a decade. It is simply Apple's DRM wrapped around html, a cover, an index, and a meta file - a la epub.

    RIM can do similar by leveraging its BB ID system to DRM, for starters. But RIM's problem is management and cash/revenue.

    Folks we can still love our daughters and admit the skirt is too short.We can still like the Playbook or RIM and be critical and objective.
    01-22-12 01:35 PM
  22. ugahairydawgs's Avatar
    RIM needs to focus their attention on shoring up their existing business before they start looking at new markets to enter.
    01-22-12 05:26 PM
  23. jackpots's Avatar
    First step done - ceo and co-chair gone. Now for better leadership.
    01-22-12 09:27 PM
  24. grahamf's Avatar
    First step done - ceo and co-chair gone. Now for better leadership.
    Done.


    And now we wait.
    01-22-12 11:13 PM
99 ... 234
LINK TO POST COPIED TO CLIPBOARD