01-22-12 11:13 PM
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  1. The_Kills's Avatar
    RIM needs to get its house in order first before it can strike favorable deals with content publishers, otherwise the negotiations will be all one sided.

    Apple had to work its b*tt off to create an entirely new ecosystem with music and movie providers, and now they've done it with textbook publishers, I just don't see RIM going after something like this at the moment, they are more concerned with hardware. Yes, hardware such as that Porsche Design phone. That's going to be a winner for the company.
    Lets attract developers for quality ported apps, then quality exclusives. After that we'll talk aboutcreating incentives for publishers for other realms such as books and whatnot. The biggest mistake a tech company can make is when they attempt to over step another when they have not got the basics down.
    01-19-12 11:17 PM
  2. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Apple jumps into digital textbooks fray - Yahoo! News

    the market potential is incredible. Pair up the software with a stylus based note taking app to annotate on the book and you're golden.

    But, of course why do that? Better work on that combover, MIke...
    Fast (bad ?) answer : both PB and Ipad are too heavy yet to be really nice for reading anywhere. Can be used "sometimes" but are not ready yet for this usage. Digital ink is required for pleasant reading, super-light devices and everlasting autonomy are also mandatory.
    I hope RIM's not going to apple-blush (again ?) that way.
    01-20-12 03:20 AM
  3. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    This announcement from Apple shows how apps and content drive adoption.

    I am seriously thinking of getting myself an iPad just because of this. I have my own auditing practice and If I can have my SAICA Handbooks, Accounting statements and Tax legislation etc on one device for easy reference I will be a happy chappy.

    Really can't fault Apple for any of this.

    If RIM plan on adopting a similar solution in the future they need to make a 10" device.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    dentynefire likes this.
    01-20-12 04:27 AM
  4. ekafara's Avatar
    We'll see how this goes for them. It was found in the TOS that if it's made in the program they are putting out for it that it can only be sold in the Apple iBookstore(or whatever its called) and they will be taking 30% of the profit from the sale of said book. I don't know what stores usually get to take as profit from the sale of a book but 30% seems fairly high. It would be great if the publishers were making it in a different program and were able to get the content out to anyone and everyone.

    Edit: it does make sense that if you used Apple's program, which is free, it would only be able to be put up in their store.
    Last edited by eKafara; 01-20-12 at 06:41 AM.
    01-20-12 06:27 AM
  5. cherolis's Avatar
    I live in a town that has fallen for the whole digi textbook idiocy. That is exactly what it is. Idiocy. The program has been a complete failure, such that all the new laptops that were provided to the students sit unused, and the paper texts from 2 years ago had to be reissued.

    There are no words for how epic the failure was. Students now are convinced more than ever that everyone over 30 is a complete moron.
    01-20-12 06:29 AM
  6. brucep1's Avatar
    I say that there isn't a tablet that would succeed in this department. First off, a student using a tablet as a textbook would generally need their "textbook"'s battery life to exceed 6 hours or so of constant use without exception.
    The iPad 3 is expected to get double the battery life of the current iPad 2. For reading books, that's easily 2 + days on a single charge.


    Now say that the student didn't properly plug in their power cord for their tablet... No textbooks for the entire day.
    Right, if you forget to charge it 2 days in a row you won't have books all day. It's the same as, if you forgot your books, you won't have access to them all day either. That's of course assuming that teachers and classrooms don't have chargers for them in the room, which they most certainly will have.

    Secondly, curriculum would have to change a lot, since the way things are right now if you have a calculator or access to the world outside of the classroom during class you can VERY easily cheat.
    Cheat? How? Unless you are giving an open book text, it's not like the iPad is small enough to open under your desk and browse the web. I think it's much more likely that phones would be used to cheat, seeing as how they are already in classrooms and much smaller.


    These arent the reasons that Apple's education program is going to stumble out of the gate. The main reason it won't be as successful right away as some people think is cost. A lot of our education systems are strapped for cash and tightening the budget. In colleges, it may take off, but as far as high schools are concerned, I think it's a while until we see mass adoption of the iPad.
    Last edited by brucep1; 01-20-12 at 07:15 AM.
    teknishun likes this.
    01-20-12 07:13 AM
  7. grncherry1's Avatar
    The iPad 3 is expected to get double the battery life of the current iPad 2. For reading books, that's easily 2 + days on a single charge.






    These arent the reasons that Apple's education program is going to stumble out of the gate. The main reason it won't be as successful right away as some people think is cost. A lot of our education systems are strapped for cash and tightening the budget. In colleges, it may take off, but as far as high schools are concerned, I think it's a while until we see mass adoption of the iPad.

    Apple gives away more IPads to schools than RIM has sold PB's since they were introduced.
    01-20-12 07:49 AM
  8. anthogag's Avatar
    I live in a town that has fallen for the whole digi textbook idiocy. That is exactly what it is. Idiocy. The program has been a complete failure, such that all the new laptops that were provided to the students sit unused, and the paper texts from 2 years ago had to be reissued.

    There are no words for how epic the failure was. Students now are convinced more than ever that everyone over 30 is a complete moron.

    Why were the laptops unused Was it battery life or needing extra space for the laptop?

    Can you further describe why students didn't like digital textbooks?
    01-20-12 08:19 AM
  9. luigigosc's Avatar
    I hate this single ecosystem BS this is killing us... you have to use netflix you have to use Skype you have to use amazon... apple is 10 times more towards monopoly that Microsoft ever was...is this the future, people saying we can only have 2 types of phones!! or you can only bring ipads to the classroom!!... there is people that don't even know how to read in the world...this is just another excuse for a overprice education imo...
    bigbmc26 likes this.
    01-20-12 08:21 AM
  10. grncherry1's Avatar
    Why were the laptops unused Was it battery life or needing extra space for the laptop?

    Can you further describe why students didn't like digital textbooks?
    I think the poster was from Alabama which has one of the worse education systems in the country.
    01-20-12 10:47 AM
  11. Angelo_Campher's Avatar
    I hate this single ecosystem BS this is killing us... you have to use netflix you have to use Skype you have to use amazon... apple is 10 times more towards monopoly that Microsoft ever was...is this the future, people saying we can only have 2 types of phones!! or you can only bring ipads to the classroom!!... there is people that don't even know how to read in the world...this is just another excuse for a overprice education imo...
    My textbooks for a single year at varsity cost way more than an iPad. To put this into perspective for you the old accounting statements set of books, that is the AC Statements, set me back R800 and this is some 15 years ago. One set of books for one subject cost me nearly a quarter of a 16GB iPad.

    The world is moving more and more to digital consumption and it is getting cheaper as the technology progresses. I can't say that about hardcopy textbooks though... They just get more expensive as time goes on.

    Apple have once again found a little gap and they look all set to exploit it. Now everybody has to play catch up once again shoukd they wish to enter this segment.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-20-12 12:10 PM
  12. dandbj13's Avatar
    Those laboring under the delusion that Zinio and PDFs are remotely equivalent to what Apple announced should probably stop posting long enough to watch the event online. You are embarrassing yourselves. Still if all you want is a scanned textbook, enjoy. That represents the same lack of imagination RIM suffers from, and explains why such things do not come from them.
    Last edited by dandbj13; 01-20-12 at 01:05 PM.
    01-20-12 12:59 PM
  13. mjs416's Avatar
    Apple's always had a history in education. RIM would not stand a chance in this area. Enterprise.. enterprise.
    Quoted for truth.

    I work at a public school and this discussion has been brought up before. Apple really doesnt discount their tablets so not many public schools have the money to blow $500 per kid on something that cant be upgraded hardware wise. Our school is usually able to make ends meet without tax increases and the IT department has desktops that are 4-5 years old. They just keep upgrading RAM and other components as needed.

    I see the value in it but until those tablets come down in price I dont see it as viable in the K-12 setting. Besides - if I was on a school board and they came to me wanting to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on ipads I would shoot it down. Hire more teachers instead.
    01-20-12 01:08 PM
  14. mjs416's Avatar
    The iPad 3 is expected to get double the battery life of the current iPad 2. For reading books, that's easily 2 + days on a single charge.
    Your argument is based on suppositions? Well - with air tight logic like that - you cant lose.

    These arent the reasons that Apple's education program is going to stumble out of the gate. The main reason it won't be as successful right away as some people think is cost. A lot of our education systems are strapped for cash and tightening the budget. In colleges, it may take off, but as far as high schools are concerned, I think it's a while until we see mass adoption of the iPad.
    You did hit the nail on the head there. I think you are going to see many many years before the public sector recovers.
    Last edited by mjs416; 01-20-12 at 01:13 PM.
    01-20-12 01:10 PM
  15. PineappleUnderTheSea's Avatar
    I see the value in it but until those tablets come down in price I dont see it as viable in the K-12 setting. Besides - if I was on a school board and they came to me wanting to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on ipads I would shoot it down. Hire more teachers instead.
    Reading the announcement led me to believe that, initially, students who currently have their own personal iPads will be the ones buying these e-books. So if you have an iPad and $15, you can have yourself an interactive textbook which might make you study a bit more, since you'll likely be spending more time interacting with the thing. It's not a bad idea, but if this is indeed the case then it favors those who are better off.

    By the way, my personal thought is that hiring more teachers is not the answer to better education: you need to hire better quality teachers, and that goes back to how they are trained and how willing they are to adopt new teaching tools. If it was me, I'd probably have all teachers have a Master's degree before they can begin teaching certain level classes...but hey, that's just me.
    Last edited by PineappleUnderTheSea; 01-20-12 at 03:47 PM.
    01-20-12 03:26 PM
  16. Mr.Willie's Avatar
    you don't even want to try this on 7" tablet. Even 10" tablets such as IPad could be pushing the limits for text books.

    Anyway, a lot of what comes out of Apple did not happen overnight. They have a bookstore and hardware, so they can do this.

    I'm not going to ask RIM to do this, until 10" playbooks are out.

    However, I'd like to see the "ITunes University" type of content available on PB, that would be awesome. I can download them from ITunes and put them on PB, but it'd be easier to do that directly on PB, similar to the podcast app.
    Install iTunes on your computer, hook up your BB device. When desktop manager opens, sync podcast.

    high school/university/college students that have BBs and pbs want access to textbooks

    This has to be available in the BB ecosystem.
    They will have access to interactive textbooks. They will just have to purchase a better tablet.

    Don't worry, Android will copy soon enough.

    We'll see how this goes for them. It was found in the TOS that if it's made in the program they are putting out for it that it can only be sold in the Apple iBookstore(or whatever its called) and they will be taking 30% of the profit from the sale of said book. I don't know what stores usually get to take as profit from the sale of a book but 30% seems fairly high. It would be great if the publishers were making it in a different program and were able to get the content out to anyone and everyone.

    Edit: it does make sense that if you used Apple's program, which is free, it would only be able to be put up in their store.
    30% is a bargin.
    01-20-12 03:54 PM
  17. dandbj13's Avatar
    Reading the announcement led me to believe that, initially, students who currently have their own personal iPads will be the ones buying these e-books. So if you have an iPad and $15, you can have yourself an interactive textbook which might make you study a bit more, since you'll likely be spending more time interacting with the thing. It's not a bad idea, but if this is indeed the case then it favors those who are better off.
    This!

    In searching for negative talking points, many are pretending like the only way this works is for cash-strapped schools to buy every student an iPad. Ridiculous! Not every student has a laptop or a high-speed internet connection. So what? When I was in school, I didn't have a calculator. Turns out I was pretty good at math.

    All advances favor those who are better off. It makes no difference if you are talking about technology, medical, social, or otherwise. We pretend that textbooks democratize education. This is quite bogus since many people who graduate still can't read. Textbooks were once an innovation that ONLY favored the well to do. Students who came from wealthier homes with more educated parents have a better chance of being good readers. Only good readers can fully benefit from textbooks.

    Only wealthier schools have up-to-date classrooms with modern presentation equipment. Wealthier schools are first to purchase newer books and jettison the outdated more quickly. Guess who gets the outdated books? Are we to have no technical advances because the wealthy benefit from them first? I think not. Students with iPads ALREADY have an advantage as they come from homes stable and wealthy enough to provide such a tool in the first place. Using class warfare to denigrate a wonderful advance in education is a self-defeating strategy.
    01-20-12 04:01 PM
  18. grahamf's Avatar
    I'm worried about the fragility of the iPad. Of course many students will take better care of them than a textbook, but if that thing breaks you're either out another $500 or you're without textbooks until your warrenty repair comes in.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    01-20-12 04:29 PM
  19. dandbj13's Avatar
    I'm worried about the fragility of the iPad. Of course many students will take better care of them than a textbook, but if that thing breaks you're either out another $500 or you're without textbooks until your warrenty repair comes in.
    How does the value proposition change if you lose a backpack with $500 worth of books, or a laptop? Lord knows I've lost over $500 worth of books when I was in school. Should kids only carry a paper notebook because it is easy to replace?
    01-20-12 04:53 PM
  20. anthogag's Avatar
    Those laboring under the delusion that Zinio and PDFs are remotely equivalent to what Apple announced should probably stop posting long enough to watch the event online. You are embarrassing yourselves. Still if all you want is a scanned textbook, enjoy. That represents the same lack of imagination RIM suffers from, and explains why such things do not come from them.

    I watched the event/video about Apple's textbook service. I wasn't surprised at all, it's what I expected blah blah animations, and I think it's stupid. It's basically learning for the lazy. Information too easily consumed and easily forgotten

    You're showing your ignorance of the non-Apple world when you state RIM suffers from a lack of imagination It's quite possible a lack of imagination is the key ingredient for attraction to the Apple ecosystem/fortress
    Last edited by anthogag; 01-20-12 at 06:00 PM.
    01-20-12 05:57 PM
  21. Peritaxis's Avatar
    I sometimes download textbooks to save myself a few hundred dollars or if the textbook is too difficult to acquire. i don't know about you but reading off a computer screen hurts my eyes.

    Last thing i would want are kids spending hours on the iPad screens, in addition to television screen and computer screen time. And the strained eyes don't just go away when you stop looking at the screen, it persists.

    Just my $0.02.
    01-20-12 06:30 PM
  22. dandbj13's Avatar
    I watched the event/video about Apple's textbook service. I wasn't surprised at all, it's what I expected blah blah animations,
    That sure is a powerful, reductionist argument you've got there. "Just a bunch of blah blah animations!" That might even fool some of the ones who didn't see the event and don't know what's going on. Nice job.

    I think it's stupid.
    Another powerful argument.

    It's basically learning for the lazy. Information too easily consumed and easily forgotten
    Couldn't agree more. I remember when I had to walk to school, barefoot in the snow, uphill both ways, each trip longer than the last... And whatever happened to the abacus? And everything was in Latin! Now that was learning.

    You're showing your ignorance of the non-Apple world when you state RIM suffers from a lack of imagination It's quite possible a lack of imagination is the key ingredient for attraction to the Apple ecosystem/fortress
    I guess you're right. Why just this past week at CES, RIM showed us all why OS2 and OS 7 comprised the best app platform in the industry. If only Apple had the kind of imagination as thought leaders such as RIM... Sigh.
    01-20-12 06:34 PM
  23. dandbj13's Avatar
    I sometimes download textbooks to save myself a few hundred dollars or if the textbook is too difficult to acquire. i don't know about you but reading off a computer screen hurts my eyes.

    Last thing i would want are kids spending hours on the iPad screens, in addition to television screen and computer screen time. And the strained eyes don't just go away when you stop looking at the screen, it persists.

    Just my $0.02.
    So, it is OK for you to use an electronic textbook because your eyes are much more resilient to strain? Or perhaps you just have better reasons to view books that way than others? And did you really lump reading a textbook on an iPad with watching TV? Of the screens you mentioned, don't you think kids might ought to watch a little less TV? Wouldn't that make sense?

    Some of you guys are trying way to hard to find negative talking points. Tell me, would any of this be better if it was promoted on the PB rather than the iPad? I remember when Apple introduced the iPad and detractors said that tablets were stupid. Come to think of it, they said the same thing about iPod, iPhone, and Macbook Air. It is always stupid until your company of choice KIRFs one up for you with a more pleasing logo. Will bBooks textbooks be better, or will these silly arguments persist? I think everyone holding a PB knows the answer to that.
    01-20-12 06:43 PM
  24. mjs416's Avatar
    Some of you guys are trying way to hard to find negative talking points. Tell me, would any of this be better if it was promoted on the PB rather than the iPad?
    Yes it would. Want to know why? $$$$ At least Until Apple stops charging $500 for the base model super sized itouch.
    01-20-12 07:06 PM
  25. fj_cruiser's Avatar
    That's like comparing apples and black berries LOL
    01-20-12 07:07 PM
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