[Neely2005]

Check this road map out...

Sent from my BOLD or maybe my soon to be BB10 PlayBook

So from that photo it looks like Calendar Q2 2013.

[peter9477]

Why pour more money into product that failed in the market, a product that is nearing end of life? Can RIM, or any other manufacturer not named Apple or Samsung, even make any profit in the tablet business? RIM is still a business and they will only do things if there is a reasonable expectation of profit.

(Edited, since you clearly weren't suggesting a short-term viewpoint with your words "reasonable expectation of profit".)

I think RIM looks long-term, and realizes that it could be worth it to them, long-term, to have a solid foothold in a particular market. For example, if they hear from their corporate customers that they're willing to spend good money on tablet devices, long-term, then maybe it behooves them to keep investing in the development of the product, the ecosystem that will produce apps for it, market recognition, and the technology itself, so that, long-term, they can finally provide the product those corporate customers have indicated they are really interested in buying. Note the word "long-term" in there... RIM has proven repeatedly in the last few years that they are thinking ahead, more than most of those who criticize them.

I think RIM knows that it would be silly to kill the PlayBook at this early stage. In fact, they've said as much, numerous times, though perhaps many people don't pay enough attention to them to hear such things. We can even go back to the CEO before the current one... (remember him?) "RIM is committed to the BlackBerry PlayBook and believes the tablet market is still in its infancy," said Lazaridis. That from some random link Google popped up: Unsold BlackBerry Playbooks will cost RIM $485 million : Tech Digest I'm pretty sure Heins has said about the same in about as few words, more recently.

So yes, they need a reasonable expectation of profit, and I believe they see one.

[Knightcrawler]

Im fairly certain we wont see a bb10 update for the pb till mid-late Q2 (as per the road map). Reason being, RIM is devoting all its resources to getting bb10 completed and polished, and priority is going to be smartphones, not tablets.

That being said however, with RIM touting bb10 as a 'mobile computing platform', it shouldn't be terribly difficult (if they were smart about it mind you) to port it from one device to another. And im not talking just phones and tablets here. If they do plan on expanding into automotive and medical equipment as they've mentioned, it stands to reason that their new operating system (or at least the core of it) would be designed to fit into any box. Sure a new UI/UX would have to be implemented for a car, and a different one again for medical equipment, and those things will take the time it takes. But i wouldn't expect to see bugs and issues every single time, as the core OS remains the same and has been (or is being) polished.

But i digress.......dont expect bb10 on the PB till about a month or two after the N-series release, giving RIM enough time to sort out the different UI issues. I wouldn't be surprised if no one at RIM has even touched the PB-BB10 project yet (those html5 tests not withstanding).

[aha]

It makes total sense to release BB10 dev beta on playbook before Christmas... depending on how bright RIM's executive team is ... and I don't really care about the official release date

[fish_rod]

the late of first quarter next year as RIM promised @@

[walcolm]

i think it will drop 'apple' style. maybe a week before the hardware goes on sale

[Thunderbuck]

Before BB10 comes to PlayBook...

• BB10 needs to be compatible with the older hardware;
• The Peek & Flow concept needs to be adjusted/tweaked for the tablet form factor. For instance, simple things like thumbing up and across to access BlackBerry Hub may not be the best solution on tablets;
• The Cascades rendering engine needs to be PB compatible;
• The Cascades, WebWorks bbui.js and AIR UI components need (probably radical) adjustment for form factor, screen size and density. For instance, having the context menu on the right may not be the best solution for a tablet, as your hand would obscure the menu (at least, for right-handed users);
• Some of the UI components need additional API's to handle various form factors, screen sizes and densities from a single code base. For instance, a button might have multiple icon images for different screen densities. The Cascades framework will need a mechanism to dynamically adjust layouts based on form factor (AIR and WebWorks bbui.js already have this);
• All landscape/portrait issues need to be sorted out, in the OS but also in bundled apps such as mail, contacts, calendar and anywhere when triggered from the new Invocation Framework. For instance, a portrait-by-default app may be embedded in a landscape app. Currently, there are no provisions in the OS to make this easier AFAIK;
• There needs to be a beta period so existing PB devs can test and update their apps. This will probably be done in stages, like the BB10 releases for Dev Alpha. So we might see some new lower-level API's such as Camera, Bluetooth appear first, then plumbing API's such as the Invoke Framework, and finally UI stuff like Cascades, cards and pickers. The fact that some of the new low-level API's are already in 2.1 (though not quite stable yet) seems to support this assumption.

And that's just technical stuff from one app developers perspective... I'd estimate it will take at least 6 months to get this done, so hoping for a BB10 release on PlayBook before Q2/Q3 is not realistic, IMHO.

Wow. You make it sound like they would have to completely rewrite BB10 to allow Playbook compatibility. "Compatible with older hardware"? It already is (the first Dev Alpha is apparently the same hardware as the LTE Playbook). "Cascades rendering engine needs to be compatible with Playbook"; again, already IS. We already have Cascades apps in the form of Scrapbook and Pacemaker.

I seriously don't believe the form factor is going to be THAT big a difference. The screen is the same aspect ratio. Yes, ideally the UI components will scale for a larger screen, but if they don't on first release I wouldn't call it a dealbreaker.

My own guess: we'll see a beta for Playbook BB10 around the same time the handsets launch, with a general release in Q2.

[joshua_sx1]

We can make the consumer version of BB10 mobiles as our "hint"... if those BB10 mobiles has higher hardware specs, the possibility of BB10 OS coming to our PlayBook is unlikely... RIM will just simply reason the hardware incompatibility of PlayBook to run BB10... or they will still roll out BB10 in PB but not as full OS like on those new mobiles... exactly the same technical and logical reason why the full features of OS7 cannot be installed in older model of BB phones...

And this is where new model of PB will emerge... just a thought only...

[peter9477]

Wow. You make it sound like they would have to completely rewrite BB10 to allow Playbook compatibility. "Compatible with older hardware"? It already is (the first Dev Alpha is apparently the same hardware as the LTE Playbook). "Cascades rendering engine needs to be compatible with Playbook"; again, already IS. We already have Cascades apps in the form of Scrapbook and Pacemaker.

In case it's relevant (and somehow I think most of these discussions are just a total waste of our time, but whatever), neither Scrapbook nor Pacemaker use anything quite like the version of Cascades that have now. In fact, Scrapbook doesn't even use anything based on Qt, which makes it effectively based on an entirely different system.

As for the hardware, it may run on it, but it's not optimized for it. The difference between "hey look, it actually runs!" and "okay, ship it" is many months of work.

The fact is, we were TOLD at Jam Americas that it would not be ready as quickly as many people seem to think. You may all choose to believe otherwise, but I'm going with the advice of those who are actually working on this stuff and who told us "don't count on a beta until at least a couple of months after BB10 launches", or words to that effect.

[joshua_sx1]

I thought that the difference between "hey look, it actually runs!" and "okay, ship it" is just only a couple of hours...

Quality Control: "Hey look, it actually runs!"...

Production Manager: "okay, ship it"...

But I do agree, with more than a year old tablet and not profitable, the chances of putting it on the list of none priority tasks is high... with limited resources, it might even become "optional"...

[dugggggg]

Quality Control: "Hey look, it actually runs!"...

Production Manager: "okay, ship it"

That, of course, is the scenario under which PlayBook 1.0 famously came to pass, some 18 months ago now.

Hopefully, with BB10, RIM will take the time to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.

[Sonic-NKT]

That, of course, is the scenario under which PlayBook 1.0 famously came to pass, some 18 months ago now.

Hopefully, with BB10, RIM will take the time to dot all the i's and cross all the t's.

i think this is the szenario for every pb os version till now

[peter9477]

I actually used those phrases because in my business it was at one point an in-joke. Whenever one of us, sometimes in the middle of an all-nighter, would get one of the robots actually doing something resembling what it was intended to do, and we'd shout "Hey, it runs!", one of the other guys would immediately shout back "Ship it!".

(It was always many months of work after that before anything was truly shippable, however, even if it did sometimes ship only a few hours later. joshua_sx1 wasn't entirely joking with that comment since it does happen in the real world sometimes.)

[twis]

If BB10 is all that it is cracked up to be, then why not release it for the PB (even in Beta) to the PlayBook. If the BB hangers on are impressed then they will not use Christmas or Boxing day blowouts as an opportuity to pick up an Android or iOS product. RIM claims to be holding back some of the key features, and they can continue to hold those back so as not to give away any secrets to the competition.

If it is good then build the hype and encourage people to stay loyal during the time of the year when you are most incented to jump ship.

[hreiner1]

Fools day?

[NFLPLAYBOOK]

I think RIM is already laying the ground work for different BB10 versions on different devices. The PlayBook and LTE PlayBook are already being seperated. I think the phones will do the same thing. Expect different options depending on which device it is. Although you will have BBM on the phones doesn't mean you will see BBM on either tablet. Or you might see it on the LTE version and not on the WiFi version. I'm not expecting BBM on the WiFi version at all. It would be lost revenue for RIM.

[mikeo007]

I think RIM is already laying the ground work for different BB10 versions on different devices. The PlayBook and LTE PlayBook are already being seperated. I think the phones will do the same thing. Expect different options depending on which device it is. Although you will have BBM on the phones doesn't mean you will see BBM on either tablet. Or you might see it on the LTE version and not on the WiFi version. I'm not expecting BBM on the WiFi version at all. It would be lost revenue for RIM.

How would putting BBM on the Wifi Playbook be lost revenue? Not making revenue and losing revenue are two different things.

From a broader scope, BB10 on the current Playbook makes no financial sense at all for RIM. IMO they're doing it as a "thank-you" to anyone who bought a Playbook and beta tested their new OS for them. It's a service to the fans, and a classy move by RIM to offer BB10 for the Playbook; it's not a financial decision.

[Thunderbuck]

How would putting BBM on the Wifi Playbook be lost revenue? Not making revenue and losing revenue are two different things.

From a broader scope, BB10 on the current Playbook makes no financial sense at all for RIM. IMO they're doing it as a "thank-you" to anyone who bought a Playbook and beta tested their new OS for them. It's a service to the fans, and a classy move by RIM to offer BB10 for the Playbook; it's not a financial decision.

BBM on the Playbook would, theoretically, result in lost revenue. Playbook users would not be paying subscription fees the way network users do. However, I do think that RIM will be making BBM available on the Playbook anyway. Arguably, half of it's already there in the form of the existing (and excellent) Video Chat app.

[mikeo007]

BBM on the Playbook would, theoretically, result in lost revenue. Playbook users would not be paying subscription fees the way network users do. However, I do think that RIM will be making BBM available on the Playbook anyway. Arguably, half of it's already there in the form of the existing (and excellent) Video Chat app.

The only way you could argue that it's lost revenue is if current blackberry users stop using their phones and instead decide to use a playbook as their BBM communication device. Otherwise there's no revenue lost, just lost potential.

[Bobert_123]

How would putting BBM on the Wifi Playbook be lost revenue? Not making revenue and losing revenue are two different things.

From a broader scope, BB10 on the current Playbook makes no financial sense at all for RIM. IMO they're doing it as a "thank-you" to anyone who bought a Playbook and beta tested their new OS for them. It's a service to the fans, and a classy move by RIM to offer BB10 for the Playbook; it's not a financial decision.

I don't agree with that at all. As long as bb10 can run smooth on the pb, rim could continue to sell the current pb for at least 4 or 5 months after it's release before a real second gen playbook is put to market because besides for screen res and processing power (which does not matter to your average consumer) are the only things that really need an update.

[mikeo007]

I don't agree with that at all. As long as bb10 can run smooth on the pb, rim could continue to sell the current pb for at least 4 or 5 months after it's release before a real second gen playbook is put to market because besides for screen res and processing power (which does not matter to your average consumer) are the only things that really need an update.

They're selling the Playbook near or at loss; how does it make any sense for them to continue selling it as is?

[Bobert_123]

They're selling the Playbook near or at loss; how does it make any sense for them to continue selling it as is?

Ask yourself why its selling badly... OS 2.1 is good but BB10 is whats suppose to be the "game changer" If BB10 it as great as rim says it is then why stick it in another tablet with upgraded hardware (which will cost more to produce then the current model) then on the current one as long as it can run really well, which is a big if but still.

Sent from my BOLD or maybe my soon to be BB10 PlayBook

[smartie88]

I am always wondering what BB10 can do but OS2 cannot that significantly improve experience? For me, OS 2 is good enough, experience means apps.

[Bobert_123]

Ask yourself why its selling badly... OS 2.1 is good but BB10 is whats suppose to be the "game changer" If BB10 it as great as rim says it is then why stick it in another tablet with upgraded hardware (which will cost more to produce then the current model) then on the current one as long as it can run really well, which is a big if but still.

Sent from my BOLD or maybe my soon to be BB10 PlayBook

I believe there is going to be an overhaul of the UI, as well as LOADS of new features, and yes a vibrant ecosystem full of major apps.

Sent from my BOLD or maybe my soon to be BB10 PlayBook

[Bakamushi]

I think the BB10 already works on the playbook, and anyway when you develop an OS for smartphones nowadays you also de facto develop it for tablets. Some comments here are nonsense, as if RIM was introducing a brand new technology, which would be entirely different from the touchscreen of smartphones.

They just don't want to release it before the phones, because they don't want people to try it on for real and write negative comments before they have sold a number of phones.