01-09-13 02:38 PM
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  1. omniusovermind's Avatar
    I make no excuses for nobody, pal.

    So... iOS6 is everything Apple wanted it to be. Except it had some major issues. But who cares! Apple is in such a sweet spot they could even go "deal with it" and still walk. They will say sorry, fix them in time and that's that. WP8/Surface/RT (which are not the same OS, just check The Verge)... We are going to wait and see how those work out. iPad mini: Same old in a smaller format factor. Sooooo hard to build/develop/deploy!!!!! Not. Unless it comes with a completely new OS, I can't say Apple had a hard time deploying the same device in a different size. They are king of doing that, really.

    BB10 isn't Tablet OS, nor something RIM has done a few times over, so yeah, it will take time to "bake". Not an excuse, simple development fact.

    RIM is nowhere close to being able to afford another flop (be advised, just because they PlayBook and OS7 devices didn't sell, I don't personally consider them flops all together, just a bit of "too little too late"). Either they execute and, despite delays, deliver a smooth OS, or we can all decide between iOS, Android or Windows phone.

    On my stance towards the OP: Complain once or twice, every now and then, about real issues, and you're expressing your opinion. Complain constantly and you're being annoying.

    I would like BB10 now, but I rather have RIM around than another rushed product (and the PlayBook falls into this category).

    Licensing: Last I checked, nobody was begging RIM to let them license BB10. Or do you have some insider knowledge we all lack? RIM would only be too happy to have others license BB10, but really: who is going to pay to use an OS nobody knows for sure how it will be received by the final user?
    I don't think any of this changes what I've already said:

    Apple in the last year has delivered a new MacOS, a new iPad, iOS 6, iPhone5, and announced iPad mini
    Android is android and continues to pump out phones and tablets with cutting edge specs and OS versions at a rapid pace while hogging the majority market share.
    MS is poised to launch a new Windows, tablet, and phone all at once. (yes I'm aware they're not all running the same OS. Hardware is still being released all at once and apps between RT tablet and WP8 are supposed to be interchangeable so this is irrelevant. Especially in the context of them delivering the 'goods')

    As I type this post there's a news story on TV talking about the Surface tab and iPad mini.

    So far all we have from RIM are delayed promises and excuses
    The fact remains that regardless whether or not RIM needs time to 'get it right', or "bake" it, they're still not delivering. The others are. They should have BB10 ready to go both on the phones and their tablet within no more than a few weeks of each other.

    Excuses or reasons notwithstanding.

    edit: neener neener. (can't believe I almost forgot that point. That was a close call.)
    Last edited by omniusovermind; 10-21-12 at 07:23 PM.
    10-21-12 07:09 PM
  2. NFLPLAYBOOK's Avatar
    I don't even have 2.1 and you're asking about BB10.
    10-21-12 07:38 PM
  3. rickster21's Avatar
    I know it will make it's way to the PlayBook right after BB10 handsets are released, but how long will it take after that? 1 Month? 2-3 Months? Late Summer? Early Fall? Q4 of 2013?
    My money is on Q1... 2014!
    10-21-12 08:55 PM
  4. diegonei's Avatar
    My money is on Q1... 2014!
    How much money are we talking here? I love easy bets. Q1 2014, riiiiight....
    10-21-12 09:10 PM
  5. diegonei's Avatar
    I don't think any of this changes what I've already said:



    The fact remains that regardless whether or not RIM needs time to 'get it right', or "bake" it, they're still not delivering. The others are. They should have BB10 ready to go both on the phones and their tablet within no more than a few weeks of each other.

    Excuses or reasons notwithstanding.

    edit: neener neener. (can't believe I almost forgot that point. That was a close call.)
    It doesn't change a bit of what you said. And it was not meant to. But it does put your statement in a different light. Apple can spit 1000 products running the same OS in the same year with ease. MS is adapting their OS to different devices (but it is the same kernel, but not the same OS, yet they are all very similar). Google's Android... They could run phone OS on tablets... And it was so nice that they decided to have a tablet-only release of Android.

    And you are complaining that RIM is doing the same thing EVERYBODY ELSE did?

    I'm not defending anyone, but let's be realistic for a second, if you don't mind it... Sure, we all would prefer if BB10 came for both tablets and phones at the same time... Wall Street included.
    10-21-12 09:17 PM
  6. rickster21's Avatar
    How much money are we talking here? I love easy bets. Q1 2014, riiiiight....
    I know, just messing with y'all
    diegonei likes this.
    10-21-12 09:32 PM
  7. kill_9's Avatar
    Thorsten Heins has stated that BlackBerry 10 will not come to the BlackBerry PlayBook for many months post-release of the BlackBerry smartphone. I fully expect delayed release of at least Autumn 2013 (3Q2013) possibly Spring 2014 (1Q2014). These quarters are calendar quarters not financial quarters as used by Research In Motion. The problem will be the fragmented screen sizes of the released smartphones which we were assured, at the time Heins stepped into the CEO role, would never happen again.
    10-21-12 09:42 PM
  8. diegonei's Avatar
    Thorsten Heins has stated that BlackBerry 10 will not come to the BlackBerry PlayBook for many months post-release of the BlackBerry smartphone. I fully expect delayed release of at least Autumn 2013 (3Q2013) possibly Spring 2014 (1Q2014). These quarters are calendar quarters not financial quarters as used by Research In Motion. The problem will be the fragmented screen sizes of the released smartphones which we were assured, at the time Heins stepped into the CEO role, would never happen again.
    Can you point us to the "many months" quote. I think remember asaunders on twitter pointing that it would come after phones, but I really don't recall nothing about months. Let alone many.
    10-21-12 09:56 PM
  9. sirfly2fly's Avatar
    Not as late as a lot of you are saying, i've seen the BlackberryDev account tweet ppl that a beta will be out around the time the phones drop....
    10-21-12 09:56 PM
  10. Innovatology's Avatar
    Before BB10 comes to PlayBook...


    • BB10 needs to be compatible with the older hardware;
    • The Peek & Flow concept needs to be adjusted/tweaked for the tablet form factor. For instance, simple things like thumbing up and across to access BlackBerry Hub may not be the best solution on tablets;
    • The Cascades rendering engine needs to be PB compatible;
    • The Cascades, WebWorks bbui.js and AIR UI components need (probably radical) adjustment for form factor, screen size and density. For instance, having the context menu on the right may not be the best solution for a tablet, as your hand would obscure the menu (at least, for right-handed users);
    • Some of the UI components need additional API's to handle various form factors, screen sizes and densities from a single code base. For instance, a button might have multiple icon images for different screen densities. The Cascades framework will need a mechanism to dynamically adjust layouts based on form factor (AIR and WebWorks bbui.js already have this);
    • All landscape/portrait issues need to be sorted out, in the OS but also in bundled apps such as mail, contacts, calendar and anywhere when triggered from the new Invocation Framework. For instance, a portrait-by-default app may be embedded in a landscape app. Currently, there are no provisions in the OS to make this easier AFAIK;
    • There needs to be a beta period so existing PB devs can test and update their apps. This will probably be done in stages, like the BB10 releases for Dev Alpha. So we might see some new lower-level API's such as Camera, Bluetooth appear first, then plumbing API's such as the Invoke Framework, and finally UI stuff like Cascades, cards and pickers. The fact that some of the new low-level API's are already in 2.1 (though not quite stable yet) seems to support this assumption.


    And that's just technical stuff from one app developers perspective... I'd estimate it will take at least 6 months to get this done, so hoping for a BB10 release on PlayBook before Q2/Q3 is not realistic, IMHO.
    10-22-12 04:05 AM
  11. nnomad's Avatar
    "Plan for the worst and you will never be disappointed". Putting a new OS on a 2 year old devise doesn't make money. I think BB 10 will come to PlayBook, just not our version of PlayBook. So what was promised is covered. Unless the phones don't sell well at first. Then Rim has left the door open to plan BB, lol. BB10 on our playbook, but it has to Bridge to BB10 phone. If BB10 comes to our playbook I will be looking for a new BB10 phone.
    10-22-12 04:08 AM
  12. daglesj's Avatar
    Not looking forward to BB10 at all.

    I would rather we get more updates for what we have to make it better and slicker with the 12 months we already have under our belts.

    We get BB10 next year and all we'll be getting is a slicker new UI but also a whole load of new bugs and issues that will need another year/18 months to fix.

    Will RIM still want to support our (by then) ancient Playbooks? I doubt it. I'll settle for 2.2 and 2.3 updates at least instead thanks.

    Ever get the feeling you are nothing but a free constant beta-tester? I think a lot of people here are being misled by the promise of shiny things and instead, we should be just concentrating at this stage on improving what we have already.
    FF22, nnomad and bodjor like this.
    10-22-12 04:32 AM
  13. Sonic-NKT's Avatar
    I think they have to release it near the BB10 phone release... but well no one knows what rim will do.
    I dont see any mayor OS release for the pb but BB10.

    Keeping the PB seperated from the main BB10 System longer would be just stupid... as it creates more complications for devs to release their apps on both platforms and even more work for rim to keep both OS compatible and uptodate.
    BB10 and PBOS are based on the same QNX core, what is the differents between those too? A different GUI and some Appframeworks...
    Both is needed for beeing compatible to BB10 apps.


    @all those who say the playbook is not capable of running BB10:
    We allmost have it running, only the gui, apis and new frameworks are missing. The playbook specs are no bad. If it wouldnt be possible to run BB10 i dont want use BB10 anyway, cause it would eat way to much resources. Android is a good positive example in this case, Jelly bean is made with quadcore cpus in mind but it even runs butterly smooth on a one core system...
    10-22-12 05:25 AM
  14. peter9477's Avatar
    Not looking forward to BB10 at all.
    ...
    We get BB10 next year and all we'll be getting is a slicker new UI but also a whole load of new bugs and issues that will need another year/18 months to fix.
    If you think BB10 is simply a slicker UI on top of the same OS, you've missed most of the real information about what BB10 is. Don't focus on the cosmetic and visual aspects... they're important parts, but in many ways just the tip of the iceberg.

    BB10 has much of what we actually expected, either in the original PlayBook OS, or at least "shortly after launch", but which to varying degrees has not been delivered yet. The original promise of the PlayBook will not be fulfilled until it's running BB10, but at that point it will also surpass the original promise. It might be a good personal strategy not to look forward to it, to avoid feeling the pain of still more delay, but personally I'm still very much looking forward to seeing BB10 running on my PlayBook, and finally getting the full use out of it that I originally hoped for.
    kbz1960, Toodeurep and bodjor like this.
    10-22-12 07:40 AM
  15. daglesj's Avatar
    Well in that case don't come crying to me when you find it full of bugs and essentially back to where we started 18 months ago.

    At this late stage in the game I would rather we fix what we have than move to yet another version in its infancy and be hamstrung again. Leave BB10 to the next version of the Playbook, if there is one.

    I just don't have faith in RIM to deliver the number of fixes and patches that WILL be needed in an orderly and timely enough manner. The current Playbook just doesn't have the longevity left to warrant it.
    10-22-12 08:20 AM
  16. peter9477's Avatar
    Well in that case don't come crying to me when you find it full of bugs ...
    Fear not, I'm not at all likely to come crying to you. ;-)
    esk369, Toodeurep and Innovatology like this.
    10-22-12 08:26 AM
  17. daglesj's Avatar
    That's a relief, it doesn't take much to get me sobbing too!
    bodjor likes this.
    10-22-12 08:35 AM
  18. esk369's Avatar
    I think the best answer is what my dear old mother would say back in the day it went something like this. (Me ) Mom when is dinner going to be ready?
    ( Mom " when its good and G*+ damm ready and not before then. Mind you that was after asking 10 times and I have 4 sisters and 2 brothers so multiply by 7 = a woman ready to kill her children.
    10-22-12 08:44 AM
  19. Bakamushi's Avatar
    Yeah right but how far are we members of the RIM family instead of paying customers ?
    10-22-12 08:55 AM
  20. notfanboy's Avatar
    Well in that case don't come crying to me when you find it full of bugs and essentially back to where we started 18 months ago.

    At this late stage in the game I would rather we fix what we have than move to yet another version in its infancy and be hamstrung again. Leave BB10 to the next version of the Playbook, if there is one.

    I just don't have faith in RIM to deliver the number of fixes and patches that WILL be needed in an orderly and timely enough manner. The current Playbook just doesn't have the longevity left to warrant it.
    I find the above to be a realistic perspective.

    Why pour more money into product that failed in the market, a product that is nearing end of life? Can RIM, or any other manufacturer not named Apple or Samsung, even make any profit in the tablet business? RIM is still a business and they will only do things if there is a reasonable expectation of profit.

    And even if they go against common sense and try to shoehorn the new OS into old hardware, how long will it take them to clean out all the bugs? Most of the updates to the Playbook so far have been tiny, incremental hops of functionality such that in most cases, users are wondering what the heck changed. Airplane mode, portrait apps come to mind. And these tiny upgrades often came with a slew of problems. What would you expect would happen with a huge upgrade to BB10?
    daglesj likes this.
    10-22-12 09:15 AM
  21. daglesj's Avatar
    Thank you, glad I'm not the only one NOT taking crazy pills.

    They add a small update like 2.1 and we see the fallout from that. God knows if we get BB10 unleashed.......

    The Playbook will be an old device by then and RIM will have to be looking forward and wanting to cut it's losses. Please can sanity resume and we just have a bumper 2.2 release that addresses the top ten niggles/bugs and be done with it? At least then we can all toddle off into the sunset with a reasonably working device.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    10-22-12 09:42 AM
  22. Sonic-NKT's Avatar
    Well imo if bb10 runs "fine" on the new hardware why should it impossible to run that well on our old playbook. Sure it needs some fixes for screensize, Landscape mode and stuff like that, but if the base OS runs fine on new hardware it should also run fine on the playbook if it was adapted correctly.

    PBOS is full of bugs, Base system as well als all System apps i tried... but all those should change and get the new BB10 code.
    It still a arm soc, so if BB10 was created with portability to other devices in mind (i hope so for rims future) it shouldnt be that hard for rim to get it working on the pb. If not it just a sign that BB10 will come with the same problems as the playbook...
    Android is a great example for the flexibility of an mobile OS (it was created with it in mind), even the homebrew community can push out a working new OS version for lagecy devices in a few month without any support of the company of the device. And those are in most cases a small group of poeple who do this in their free time. RIM needs month for a little update for the playbook and it still full of problems for the enduser.

    This has to change or it will be RIMs end and i hope it was because of the focus on BB10, but i wont wait again more than half a year for a minor update and i wont get a bb10 device if i cant test it out on my pb first.

    PS: im not a huge android fan, even if it sounded like that. I like the multitasking and ui of the playbook system much more but what i like about android is that its a open OS. I wonder what the playbook would look like today if it was a using a open OS like linux as core and wouldnt be that closed down. I guess the community would have fixed many little problems and errors month ago. Sure this isnt a solution for the typical enduser but its great for many other people who feel a bit neglected by the company they bought their device from.
    10-22-12 10:02 AM
  23. zorecati's Avatar
    BB 10 should have been done yesterday and I demand it as such infact, I'm waiting for BB 11. BB10 is already a bit dated. The current pb OS is completely unusable for my hipster persona. The quality of fart apps needs to increase 10 fold as well, if RIM expects me to continue to be a valued customer.
    Hobbes2099 likes this.
    10-22-12 10:24 AM
  24. daglesj's Avatar
    Running 'fine' isn't really good enough. Fine to me means maybe 75%. I really want 'great' as a minimum. Installing BB10 on the MK1 Playbook means going back to square one.

    It's too late for this generation. As this current point in time we have an OS that's pretty much 90% there. We really just need a little more polish and we'll have the equivalent of XP SP3 on the Playbook. Nothing too flashy but its reliable and does the job in most cases. I could happily see out the next 18 months with that. What I don't need is to endure the final months with half of it not working properly and only to be told come May 2013 (maybe) that the MK1 Playbook is no longer to be supported.

    This is coming from a guy that bought a Pre2 two months before HP dumped it all so I've been there already. Maybe that's made me a little less carried away with all this.

    If anyone thinks that from out of the gate BB10 will be a smooth ride then...well..words fail me. This isn't like going from Gingerbread to Icecream sandwich. This could be (not will be) more like going to Vista day one on your old XP machine.

    I hope I'm wrong but past experience........
    10-22-12 10:24 AM
  25. dragonx6's Avatar
    So whycant they release it for both this playbook and the next one? Release a new playbook with better specs with bb10 running and give us an upgrade. The way people are about specs they will go for the new one. I'm just hoping they learnt they lesson on the pricing. They need to keep it under 400 for the tablet.
    10-22-12 10:43 AM
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