[Superfly_FR]

Since my thread was closed, I presume due to a too simplistic combination of answers in the attached poll (like yes/no/don't care), I'll repost it there - without poll. This seems to me an important question and opinions that were stated in the former thread so far were accurate. Please let this thread as polite and calm as it was when I discovered it closed here : http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...lbreak-685710/
(and - please again - don't pretext this thread to grin about moderation)
Same question, without poll :

Well kinda strange question, in fact. But it makes sense since the major RIM market advantage ("perception" mode) is the security.

Once, we may say "no one ever break RIM's security features" and now we can't anymore.
I'm aware that this kind of jailbreak is difficult to perform without the owner (security) privileges. But still, once jailbreaked the core code cannot be "safety approved", even more, the jailbreak itself could damage the whole thing or be (paranoid mode) designed to gain access to any jailbreaked device.

So, what do you think ?
Is it somehow a "freedom act" that will allow getting the best of our tool ?
Is it only an exploit that must be saluted but solidly patched to prevent its distribution ?
Don't you care ?

Of course, I believe that your remarks will do much more in the debate than any vote ... so, just argue bellow !

P.S : and yes, this is the proper section for this thread, since it targets "John Doe" users, and not (only) the most advanced/techies ones we'll find in the jailbreak section .

[Fubaz]

i love it, it can only further development.

As long as it is used for legal uses, like external drives, I love the idea

[BuzzStarField]

I do get a little annoyed when a "John Doe" user thinks that is is "easy" to put the device in development mode and load random stuff onto the device. These people should not be surprised when the device gets semi-bricked and needs major surgery to get it running again.

RIM could solve the "problem" by allowing only accredited developers to turn on developer mode and get access to digital signatures. But most developers, myself included, do not want to have to go through hoops in order to create our apps.

I am not aware of any "hacks" right now that do not involve turning on developer mode. This not really a security problem because all it would take to protect corporate devices is to enable security policies. You can bet that RIM is working diligently to make this happen.

[kennyliu]

Why not? Rephrasing the popular quote "If you are against jailbreaking, don't have one". But having this as an option may be quite handy for many people.

If you are concerned about Playbook OS's image as a secure operating system, well, it's already been demonstrated it can be jailbroken.

[Superfly_FR]

I am not aware of any "hacks" right now that do not involve turning on developer mode. This not really a security problem because all it would take to protect corporate devices is to enable security policies. You can bet that RIM is working diligently to make this happen.

You just gave me the clue I was searching for, thx.

[CreativeNerdSam]

Personally I believe that without Jailbreaking etc then a lot of stuff would not have been possible even from development stage one for many previous platforms.

Take a look at the big companies, Google, Facebook etc, they pay 'hackers' to find exploits within their systems and they get paid for this. Blackberry and other operators on the other hand pretty much leave it down to the end-user and then patch the exploits or jump on the new findings.

Im all in for Jailbreaking etc, and personally I think that the larger companies should start supporting it and including it in warranty cover!

[zoban]

Open to the3 idea of jailbreaking as I don't think I should be locked out of any device I bought and paid for.

That said I played with Dingleberry for a bit and then wiped and reloaded a couple days later.

[RescueCop]

Personally, I think it's a bit sad that users need to "jailbreak" a device to use its full functionality. I agree that concerns about corporate security have some validity, especially in closely regulated industries, though I personally wouldn't want to work any place that didn't trust me to manage my own computing devices. At the same time, I believe that consumers shouldn't be restricted from using the full capabilities of a device that they purchased themselves simply to keep corporate IT types happy.

As BuzzStarField rightly pointed out, security concerns should be dealt with by allowing corporate users to set security policies, rather than by imposing artificial limitations on all users. As long as RIM (or anyone else) limits users' ability to utilize all of the functionality of their devices, there will be "jailbreaks" - and that's probably a good thing. End "jailbreaking" - provide maximum functionality from day one!

[Thunderbuck]

Personally, I think it's a bit sad that users need to "jailbreak" a device to use its full functionality...

And there's the philosophical argument in a nutshell: are you buying a physical "device"? Or are you buying a "user experience"?

I'll reduce the argument even further: When you buy a CD, you may own the physical media, but you don't "own" the music. You have a license to listen to it (and a few other things that are covered under "fair use").

Yes, if you're a tinkerer and a hardware wonk, and you don't mind running the risk that your device will become a paperweight, root it. I irrevokably killed a device I loved once, so I'm inclined to be cautious myself.

That, and when I buy a device I'm usually quite happy to keep the "user experience" the manufacturer intended. But if I were unhappy with that experience, and the risk was minimal, I've got no problem trying to improve it.

[cleveland216]

to me jailbreak means enabling features a company does not want its device to have, or have without consent/being paid for it. The PB IMO is already more functional than iPad or Android tab OOB. I can drag and drop files on it from my computer, including media files - which btw are read right into the media library on the PB. I use this... A LOT.

I don't care about the jailbreak. Just don't p*ss RIM off. Even in the land of Series 1 Tivo, the company did not care too much as long as the jailbreaking community wasn't trying to steal signal.

and this coming from someone who has "unlocked" devices including, but not limited to, iPad 1, iPod 3G, 4G, Tivo Series 1, DTV , Samsung Galaxy Wifi 5.0, not to mention all the tweaks for Treo 600, 650, 700w, 750, OSX, WHS, every Win OS you can thing of for that matter.

Come to think of it, I think I'm all tinkered out! Oh well, on to working and being productive with my downgraded-from-2.0 1.8 PB32 (no more tinkering), with its awesome browser and Bridge......

[pelletizer]

Early adopters bought playbook on the word of what it might do in the future.People today are buying playbook for what it can do in the future.No one,Joe puplic bought it because it could be jailbroken.
I believe most people bought this device for the security,and the programs(apps)that were promised.
I feel that the majority of people will fall on the side of leave this device to operate within Rims designs.

[Revord]

I recently jailbroke my pb, got the android market, etc. and for the fact that the android functionality is still limited, it was fun to do. I feel like I accomplished something I was nervous about doing, and succeeded. It didn't open up a whole new world for me because I am not a developer, just an average user. But I learned something. Its not quite so big and scary afterall. It is quite easy to do, and totally reversible.

[FF22]

I did not buy it for security other than the password I have already toggled ON.

I bought it because I did expect certain features and some of those were there and because it linked up with my bb phone.

I do not see jailbreaking it as a violation of what I wanted. I have not updated to the lastest 1.x OS since I still want the option to jailbreak even though I have not done so and may not. (I need a concise guide to jailbreaking, I guess).

Some guy has tweaked his icons - I don't see anything wrong with that. I have not investigated all of the other things folks have accomplished (or blown up!).

I guess changing the UI by tweaking could make rim unhappy because it does not repreent the device as they issued it. Folks could get confused. But as well as the device was selling, I'm not sure any harm is done to rim's reputation by rooting.

[Ricardo_N]

It's very clear to me that when this product line launched it had some excitement behind it and legs. What is also clear for all the talk and buzz it generated was and is for not. The fact they said it would do and have X and didn't is a clear misrepresentation! Don't like what I have to say then stop reading then.

The truth hurts doesn't it. Yeah I thought so. What? You're going to say something smart and witty or tell me to sell it, or F off. Guess what? I am not! Jailbreaking is not going away. They should have done this after they kept breaking their promises many months ago. The reason it was jailbroken is b/c the prisoners got tired and the 2 wardens running the prison.

All talk and no action resulted in the PB being an expensive paperweight with promises that were never kept and/or late. I say let the prisoners run the prison. Its clear they know what the F they are doing than the two behind the prison walls. You can only keep making so many promises and when you don't keep them people get tired of heqring you talk.

Security on the PB...ah yeah right try again! If there was so security it wouldn't be jailbroken in the first place right so there goes that argument. But wait, there's more..since it launched w/o email.and for any device to so this it seems a curious omission, but for a company whose key value proposition is their email functionality is seems insane?

Then after months rolled around with all talk and no action if any or little both ceo's wanna defend the current problematic PB. When these article grew more legs than the PB and the titanic started to sink we started to cut and run on prices so they could get it into more hands and for what reason and to what end?

For subdue retail sales...oh I'm sorry thats not the official reason. The logic was so that we could get it into your hands and mine to do what. Talk about it on message boards waiting for months for an absolution to happen. It's been almost a year now if not longer and aint crap happened yet!

Its clear we all have been duped yet we want to sit around this company and act like they are the messiahs coming to save the world. F that! Bring out your ten inch with no native email, lets talk about that while we still wait for android, hey no lets talk about those wonderful folks in R&D. Great job and Kudo's for b/c w/o you we wouldnt be here reading this and sticking up for you at the same time while we wait.

Does anyone know if they sell 7 inch caskets for the PB as an accessory yet so we can bury this PB at a graveyard? So yeah lets keep following RIM b/c they are doing such a bang up job! Lets tell people like me something rude crass or ignorant for spending the same amount of money you did for the same product.

Oh thats right people like me arent supposed to have opinions b/c I am not a kiss *ss follower and blow and die hard. Used to be, but sorry I will be no victim any longer. I love the fact that I and you bought an unfinished product so we can banter about how good and bad RIM is b/c that's why I bought the PB for.

Buying a tablet to have fun be productive and current is so over rated anyways who needs that. Lets keep hearing from the saviors and the followers some more with the wonderful commentary how this is the best product since the invention of sliced bread.

But hey what do I know than other than broken promises and lies. Come on February, cant wait to see what you are going to bring and how you are going to spin, lie, point fingers to when you dont deliver again. You have been most consistent in this department so lets have a big ol party when you pee on our legs again and tell us its just raining.

Keep up the good work jailbreakers! I say let the prisoners run the prison since they know what they are doing. Please advertise more exploits about a product that has built in security b/c I feel so safe and secure with this product. Okay know that I vented cant wait for all the bees to come out of their beehives and save the Queen Bees.

Ready, set, go.......bzzzzzzzzz

[alnamvet68]

Wow, that was bombastic.

[xKrNMBoYx]

I have no problem with it. I jailbroke my iPod Touches from 2G-4G. Without going into details I thing there are features and things that would not exist if Jailbreaking was not possible. It's a way for people to make and test things. If it works it can be made for wide use for many people.

The only thing I have against it is people illegally using application and features without paying the people who worked hard to get that app or feature to work.

[BuzzStarField]

...Okay know that I vented cant wait for all the bees to come out of their beehives and save the Queen Bees.

Ready, set, go.......bzzzzzzzzz

Bee bait eh? I now know to read your posts from the bottom up. It will save me a lot of time trying to understand your main point in the future.

[xindy]

There are positive aspects to jailbreaking. it is the drive for evolution in the wild , showing what the designers / manufacturers may never otherwise have considered otherwise. more versatility more features more popularity . I've only had my pb for a short while. Initial disappointment at essential features that just were not there bridge being no good as i do not have a bb phone. Then gradual grudging acceptance . What this thing does it does pretty well. I have considered jb myself for a simple mail pgm but decided to wait until 2.0 update.

[Superfly_FR]

Massive & collective thanks ... no flames and a lot of valid points, both sides.
Well, It's time for the second-level question :

How can you be certain (or almost) that the jailbreak you've set up on your device is not anyhow a "trojan" that may grant the "editor" to access your PB / data one day or another ?

I'll try to make my meaning clear (sorry, I often failed due to my English) :
If the point is to make an exploit, Isn't somehow the next natural step for the "editor" to demonstrate that you can get around SERVER side security (let's focus on BIS this time + Please note that I'm not pretending jingleberry does) ?

[FF22]

Any software that you load or sideload can have unexpected inclusions. As a BIS user, I can install anything I want on my bbphone - who knows what I've installed and granted permissions to? Trust the source or do not install the Root or any other app.

[peter9477]

How can you be certain (or almost) that the jailbreak you've set up on your device is not anyhow a "trojan" that may grant the "editor" to access your PB / data one day or another ?

You can't be certain, unless you are an expert and review every bit of code that's in the tools you're using to root the thing.

I held off rooting until I gained enough trust in the devs involved to be reasonably confident it was safe, as I wasn't going to take the time to dig into the code myself.

Note that pretty much the same thing -- do you trust the devs -- applies to all the apps we're using (including mine!). RIM claims to do some sort of security review when apps are submitted, but honestly we've seen little to no sign that they are doing more than checking for obvious signs of copyright violation, potential competition with their own stuff, and maybe a small checklist of additional items. Apps have gotten through "approval" without actually being run, apparently and to judge from some of the non-functional stuff that ended up in the store.

If you don't trust the dev behind your app, the app could be transmitting data quietly somewhere without your knowing it. There is no restricted permission for "network access" (there is actually, but it's "enabled" for all apps on the PlayBook, at present). Only denying an app all other permissions it requests would guarantee that it can't snoop on your data, location, or other info, aside from whatever info you put into that app directly.

[Superfly_FR]

Thanks for you responses.
In fact, I've always been surprised that the data protection was app related(I mean app by app) and not ressource related (I mean global policy regarding sensible data as contacts, emails, texts, docs, ...). Personnaly I'll find this far more easy an understandable for the common user to say "by default, I don't want that any app access xxx items" and then enabling it (as the win user control does) only if required and not (by default) in a permanent way. What do you think ? Will it be a too bad "user experience" ?