01-25-12 05:44 PM
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  1. kennyliu's Avatar
    Good point - I would say it is possible but very unlikely and rare, but not specific to playbook - all manufacturing operations have defective products and return rates (lemons, factory seconds) . Most get lucky but some are very unlucky - its statistics. Someone has to be on the fringes of the bell curve and those are the ones you will hear from.

    nobody posts when they have perfect playbooks, only the few with bad luck. To ask "what is wrong with playbook QC" is kind of a unfair, you would have to ask what is wrong with everyone's QC.

    Sorry for your bad luck, but anytime you feel like changing the misleading and presumptuous thread title would be ok with me OP
    Just ask a mod press the little red report button in the upper left corner of your original post.
    We in playbook land would appreciate it.
    .
    I don't see anything misleading or presumptuous in the OP's thread title. As my previous post suggests, the OP ran into a few defective units and he believes (rightfully so) that there is a problem with QC. Just because you haven't run into defects does NOT mean that the problems do not exist.

    If you are selectively using my argument about the vocality of the unlucky ones, then there may be a counterargument - only people who find the Playbook to be perfect participate in the forum. Most unlucky ones simply return their defective Playbook and don't bother registering and being a resident of this website. So it can go both ways.

    In any case, let the mods do the censoring.
    raino likes this.
    01-08-12 02:28 PM
  2. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Interesting, based on that post, roughly 3/10 PBs have had dead or stuck pixels. That's quite a bit.

    That's one way of looking at it, but this kind of issue is where forum bias is the strongest. People look for answers to problems.

    Another way of looking at it is that the poll shows 70 people with dead pixel problems. They've sold hundreds of thousands of them. Can we really draw strong conclusions based on this info?
    01-08-12 02:30 PM
  3. blackjack93117's Avatar
    I don't see anything misleading or presumptuous in the OP's thread title. As my previous post suggests, the OP ran into a few defective units and he believes (rightfully so) that there is a problem with QC. Just because you haven't run into defects does NOT mean that the problems do not exist.

    If you are selectively using my argument about the vocality of the unlucky ones, then there may be a counterargument - only people who find the Playbook to be perfect participate in the forum. Most unlucky ones simply return their defective Playbook and don't bother registering and being a resident of this website. So it can go both ways.

    In any case, let the mods do the censoring.
    The presumption is that there is something wrong with playbook QC. There is not. Perhaps it could be improved, and tightened, but that happens during the manufacturing run as feedback is gained. Defective units, especially that may become defective after they leave the factory, is normal across the manufacturing spectrum.

    I have 30 years experience in overseeing manufacturing operations in electronics. This is normal. That is why every manufacturing operation has an area devoted to returned units.

    It is not censoring, it is a request for more accuracy in the title, which gets high visibility AND correction to a title at the OP's request as was the case in your thread, and I thanked you for it privately. If the OP does not choose to do this it won't be done, and that is fine - it was a suggestion. Mods do not make these calls - they only do this at the OP's request. To call this censoring is an inaccurate use of verbage.

    It is far from true that only people who find the playbook perfect participate in the forums as we all have observed. It is also not true that I claimed that defective units do not exist.
    Last edited by blackjack93117; 01-08-12 at 03:08 PM.
    01-08-12 02:33 PM
  4. kennyliu's Avatar
    That's one way of looking at it, but this kind of issue is where forum bias is the strongest. People look for answers to problems.

    Another way of looking at it is that the poll shows 70 people with dead pixel problems. They've sold hundreds of thousands of them. Can we really draw strong conclusions based on this info?
    Similarly, the poll shows only 200+ people reporting no dead pixels. The issue is not the sample size - it is more than enough for a homogenous product. The issue is whether the few hundred people are representative of the entire population of playbook owners. And we do NOT know if they are, as there may be bias both ways. The bias magnitude and direction cannot be reliably estimated.
    Last edited by kennyliu; 01-08-12 at 02:37 PM.
    01-08-12 02:35 PM
  5. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    If you are selectively using my argument about the vocality of the unlucky ones, then there may be a counterargument - only people who find the Playbook to be perfect participate in the forum.
    A quick look at this forum negates your counter-argument... as well as THIS thread. But nice attempt at a rubber-glue defense...
    01-08-12 02:39 PM
  6. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Similarly, the poll shows only 200+ people reporting no dead pixels. The issue is not the sample size - it is more than enough for a homogenous product. The issue is whether the few hundred people are representative of the entire population of playbook owners. And we do NOT know if they are, as there may be bias both ways. The bias magnitude and direction cannot be reliably estimated.

    But a few posts ago you stated that it indicated a "serious problem"...
    01-08-12 02:40 PM
  7. kennyliu's Avatar
    But a few posts ago you stated that it indicated a "serious problem"...
    Exactly, I stated that the POLLS do indicate a serious problem. What's so confusing?
    01-08-12 02:42 PM
  8. kennyliu's Avatar
    A quick look at this forum negates your counter-argument... as well as THIS thread. But nice attempt at a rubber-glue defense...
    What about other threads saying how cool and perfect the Playbook is?

    Guys, I don't want to get into this debate. All I am saying is that, unless we have some more reliable information, we can't call other threads BS just based on our own experience. Anything is possible, including poor QC.
    01-08-12 02:46 PM
  9. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Not calling the OP's experience BS, but to extrapolate that to impune the entire QC process as has been done or draw conclusions on one unscientific poll makes no logical sense. We seem to be on the same page with that, right? Not sure why there's this whole back and forth.
    01-08-12 02:50 PM
  10. kennyliu's Avatar
    Not calling the OP's experience BS, but to extrapolate that to impune the entire QC process as has been done or draw conclusions on one unscientific poll makes no logical sense. We seem to be on the same page with that, right? Not sure why there's this whole back and forth.
    You didn't call it BS but others did. Anyway, you are right. Any poll results here should be taken with a huge grain of salt.

    However, you will also agree that stating that the QC process does not have problems also would make no logical sense. The thing is we don't have reliable information to make statements one way or the other. But somehow people have done just that.
    Last edited by kennyliu; 01-08-12 at 03:04 PM.
    01-08-12 02:53 PM
  11. oldtimeBBaddict's Avatar
    Without getting into a lecture on statistics, these are my observations.
    The results of the polls on this site are at best representative of members of CB. What percentage of all PB owners are members of this site? Of those, what percentage regularly post? I suspect that in both cases, the percentages are not a majority.
    When Blackjack says the statistical outliers (the ones with really good or really bad experiences) are the ones who report, he is absolutely correct. There's an old saying that a customer who has a good experience will tell 3 others. One who has a bad experience will tell 11 others. I know that if I buy something at regular price and it performs as I expect it to, I don't tell everybody. I will mention it if I got a good price or exceptional customer service. I also don't report if I get a defective product, if I have no issues returning or exchanging it. If the replacements are bad or if the retailer makes it a difficult experience, then I'll be on the nearest rooftop telling everybody.
    All of this is a long winded and verbose way of saying that I don't think we can generalize what we see on this site (good or bad) to the general population.
    If you read this all the way through, big props to you
    kennyliu likes this.
    01-08-12 04:06 PM
  12. Send Again's Avatar
    Same story here, 2 playbooks, niether returned.
    Neither dust nor light nor bulge of back.

    One flush power button , but nothing a lollipop stick wont cure.
    Same here but I very rarely use the power button anyways.
    01-08-12 04:21 PM
  13. kill_9's Avatar
    The OP's QC issues with four consecutive BlackBerry PlayBooks is likely the reason that Research In Motion pulled the plug on their Chinese manufacturing partner. With the prices these tablets were initially released every tablet should have been manufactured in North America, specifically in Canada. There is no excuse for the shoddy workmanship of these tablets and it only harms the BlackBerry brand name which the executive-class should keep in mind.
    01-08-12 04:29 PM
  14. blackjack93117's Avatar
    Without getting into a lecture on statistics, these are my observations.
    The results of the polls on this site are at best representative of members of CB. What percentage of all PB owners are members of this site? Of those, what percentage regularly post? I suspect that in both cases, the percentages are not a majority.
    When Blackjack says the statistical outliers (the ones with really good or really bad experiences) are the ones who report, he is absolutely correct. There's an old saying that a customer who has a good experience will tell 3 others. One who has a bad experience will tell 11 others. I know that if I buy something at regular price and it performs as I expect it to, I don't tell everybody. I will mention it if I got a good price or exceptional customer service. I also don't report if I get a defective product, if I have no issues returning or exchanging it. If the replacements are bad or if the retailer makes it a difficult experience, then I'll be on the nearest rooftop telling everybody.
    All of this is a long winded and verbose way of saying that I don't think we can generalize what we see on this site (good or bad) to the general population.
    If you read this all the way through, big props to you
    Roger that, Roger.
    Last edited by blackjack93117; 01-08-12 at 05:29 PM.
    01-08-12 04:39 PM
  15. Tank1978's Avatar
    Ok, so this is getting a bit ridiculous. I know that I am by nature a perfectionist and want things to be a certain way but here's the quick and dirty (sometimes literally) summary.

    1st PlayBook, 32GB variant, major back-light bleed on the lower right side of the screen visible in daylight, returned
    2nd PlayBook, 32GB variant, inset power button, almost impossible to press, bowed back, to be returned today
    3rd PlayBook, 64GB variant, dead pixels, about 2" x 1/4" (yes, that is inches) strip on the top and on the left side of the screen, returned
    4th PlayBook, 64GB variant, loose power button, dust collecting underneath the glass panel after 16 hours of use in a low-dust environment, to be returned today

    So, I am a huge RIM fan and I only buy RIM products for my mobile needs, but this is turning out to be an ugly joke. Four PlayBooks in a row, every single one is defective. There is no way that is a coincidence. The QC really seems sub-par. I am very disappointed. If the 5th unit does not end up working as expected I am done with the PlayBook, for good
    That is a bumch of bad luck, maybe the store got a bad batch.... I have known people who have turned in that many i phones, I wouldnt give up, they are great!
    alnamvet68 likes this.
    01-08-12 04:44 PM
  16. cogsinister's Avatar
    The OP's QC issues with four consecutive BlackBerry PlayBooks is likely the reason that Research In Motion pulled the plug on their Chinese manufacturing partner. With the prices these tablets were initially released every tablet should have been manufactured in North America, specifically in Canada. There is no excuse for the shoddy workmanship of these tablets and it only harms the BlackBerry brand name which the executive-class should keep in mind.
    For a start,Quanta computer is a Taiwan based company, not mainland China,and in my opinion there standards of construction are second to none.

    Where in Canada would you think RIM could get as many as a million tablets made ?

    The plants just do not exist.
    01-08-12 05:35 PM
  17. Megacharge's Avatar
    Here is the link I was talking about in an earlier post.

    Keep in mind with Android, Google doesn't oversee the manufacturing of all it's own phones/tablets, so it's failure rate is skewed due to the many dirt cheap brands running the OS on their phones/tablets. The real news here is that Blackberry's mobile devices have a lower failure rate per 600,000 than Apple.

    Blackberry has lowest mobile device failure rate
    Last edited by Megacharge; 01-08-12 at 10:04 PM.
    alnamvet68, kennyliu and spike12 like this.
    01-08-12 05:48 PM
  18. kennyliu's Avatar
    Here is the link I was talking about in an earlier post.

    Keep in mind with Android, Google doesn't oversee the manufacturing of all it's own phones, so it's failure rate is skewed due to the many dirt cheap brands running the OS on their phones. The real news here is that Blackberry's mobile devices have a lower failure rate per 600,000 than Apple.

    Blackberry has lowest mobile device failure rate
    Thanks for the interesting info. But to be fair, this is an average for 100 million phones + 0.8 million Playbooks. And we know that the Playbook is a new wolf in the BlackBerry pack.

    Thanks anyway.
    01-08-12 06:19 PM
  19. esqlaw's Avatar
    I feel lucky I only got an inset power button and only my left volume button clicks audibly. The play button clicks but hardly and is hard to push down. The right volume doesn't click and is hard to push down.
    01-08-12 06:23 PM
  20. omniusovermind's Avatar
    Ok, so this is getting a bit ridiculous. I know that I am by nature a perfectionist and want things to be a certain way but here's the quick and dirty (sometimes literally) summary.

    1st PlayBook, 32GB variant, major back-light bleed on the lower right side of the screen visible in daylight, returned
    2nd PlayBook, 32GB variant, inset power button, almost impossible to press, bowed back, to be returned today
    3rd PlayBook, 64GB variant, dead pixels, about 2" x 1/4" (yes, that is inches) strip on the top and on the left side of the screen, returned
    4th PlayBook, 64GB variant, loose power button, dust collecting underneath the glass panel after 16 hours of use in a low-dust environment, to be returned today

    So, I am a huge RIM fan and I only buy RIM products for my mobile needs, but this is turning out to be an ugly joke. Four PlayBooks in a row, every single one is defective. There is no way that is a coincidence. The QC really seems sub-par. I am very disappointed. If the 5th unit does not end up working as expected I am done with the PlayBook, for good
    this sounds like an exceptional set of circumstances, just curious if this all happened at store(s) in the same area? I'm thinking it's possible the entire shipment was from a defective batch that escaped QC
    01-08-12 07:17 PM
  21. dejanh's Avatar
    this sounds like an exceptional set of circumstances, just curious if this all happened at store(s) in the same area? I'm thinking it's possible the entire shipment was from a defective batch that escaped QC
    Yep, I actually mentioned that earlier. They were all from the same store. I changed to a different store now and so far so good...the unit appears to be working well.
    01-08-12 07:20 PM
  22. blackjack93117's Avatar
    I feel lucky I only got an inset power button and only my left volume button clicks audibly. The play button clicks but hardly and is hard to push down. The right volume doesn't click and is hard to push down.
    I forgot I even had a play button - never used that, not even once.. Thanks for the reminder.
    01-08-12 07:22 PM
  23. lostaggie's Avatar
    I just picked up my first PB at Sprint today and it has at least two inches (closer to three inches) of dead pixels at the top/middle when held in landscape mode. It has has some backlight bleed around the edges, most notably in the lower left hand corner in landscape.

    Very disappointing. I will see if I can replace tomorrow as they are hard to find in stock.

    Picked up for the $199 so want to keep at that price.

    I will say the OS is very smooth and I loved the browser.
    01-08-12 09:16 PM
  24. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    Ok, so this is getting a bit ridiculous. I know that I am by nature a perfectionist and want things to be a certain way but here's the quick and dirty (sometimes literally) summary.

    1st PlayBook, 32GB variant, major back-light bleed on the lower right side of the screen visible in daylight, returned
    2nd PlayBook, 32GB variant, inset power button, almost impossible to press, bowed back, to be returned today
    3rd PlayBook, 64GB variant, dead pixels, about 2" x 1/4" (yes, that is inches) strip on the top and on the left side of the screen, returned
    4th PlayBook, 64GB variant, loose power button, dust collecting underneath the glass panel after 16 hours of use in a low-dust environment, to be returned today

    So, I am a huge RIM fan and I only buy RIM products for my mobile needs, but this is turning out to be an ugly joke. Four PlayBooks in a row, every single one is defective. There is no way that is a coincidence. The QC really seems sub-par. I am very disappointed. If the 5th unit does not end up working as expected I am done with the PlayBook, for good
    Returning the second in the future but already had problems with 3 and 4? Somehow that math doesn't add up
    01-08-12 09:27 PM
  25. reeneebob's Avatar
    I had my coworkers playbook overnight while I rooted it for him (he is über paranoid about 'hacking' and knows little about android). I have to say I am glad his week old playbook wasn't mine because he had about 3 stuck pixels, dust under the screen, and a power button so sunken I was using a fork tine to push it. He hasn't noticed any of it, but my boss who also has a PB and I were pretty shocked at the issues. We recommended he return it but he said he can live with it.

    I couldn't. Just the 24 hours I had it, my OCD with devices was going off the chain every time I honed in on the dust.

    We have had 3 returned for dust under the screen or the power button from our last shipment. I would think they sealed them better by now...I remember how pissed I was when I got dust under the screen on my 8330.


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using Tapatalk
    01-08-12 09:34 PM
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