07-17-13 12:53 PM
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  1. lexluthorxx's Avatar
    I enjoyed reading this thread....its very entertaining ...I love how everyone is trying to give ideas to 'save' bbry or to turn around this mess....but i really don't think they want your suggestions...because they are as Thor said A company in transition...


    Unfortunately I believe the 'transition' he was speaking of....had nothing to do with the resurgence of RIM but had more to do with the Sale of a Brand BlackBerry...hence the name change...(SOM posted about this)...if the bb10 phones took off...then the stock would rise...demand would rise and the Brand would be worth much more.....if the phones don't sell ....the stock tanks.........and company is 'gobbled' up..and broken up...either way....the company is sold.

    So all is well.....Thor will ride off into the sunset.....

    I will remember Thor....and follow his progress....and make sure not to buy any product he espouses, recommends except maybe diapers...Cause Thor knows sh1t.
    07-02-13 11:52 AM
  2. victorshikhman's Avatar
    I know people are mad that the PlayBook promise wasn't kept, but do you seriously think they've never kept a single solitary promise or deadline in their entire corporate history?
    It is sad and amusing that instead of counting all the promises they haven't kept, it's much easier to count the promises they have kept.

    @bp3dots, it would seem that, were it up to you, no criticism of any sort would be allowed at all. It appears all you're willing to condone is for Kevin to go up there and politely beg Heins to pretty please use Vaseline next time. But at least he'll sound professional, right?

    I'm not worried about Kevin going out there like a lunatic, because he's not a lunatic. The reason I created this thread is to channel the anger and disappointment that so many of us feel into action that achieves a positive outcome.

    Kevin is not a reporter. He is the owner of an online tech fan community. Occasionally he breaks news or offers exclusive interviews and commentary, but only for the purpose of growing and sustaining this community. He markets products to this community and relies on the community's presence to sell advertisements. I've purchased products on Crackberry, and so have many others. He's earned the trust and respect of this community. Many of us are very upset with Blackberry's failed promises and direction, and are asking him to take a stand on behalf of many in the community.

    You seem to think Kevin's only role is to be a sycophant for Blackberry corporate. No, he can choose to speak forcefully and clearly that Blackberry and its CEO have lost the trust and respect of their customers, that they've treated us with utter contempt, that their promises have been exposed as empty propaganda (at best), and a cynical attempt to unload inventory (at worst).

    It was never even a doubt in my mind that he would do this in a professional and respectful manner, but also without being a doormat for anyone to walk over. And his strength in telling it straight will benefit Blackberry, not weaken it.

    Strong criticism of companies by their most loyal fans is a normal part of the product development cycle these days. Just ask Microsoft. Ask Apple. Ask Google. Every institution tries to resist change, but wise leadership adapts product development to meet consumer needs in a respectful way, because only by putting the customer first will a company make money and succeed. Blackberry is not above reproach. Heins is not above strong criticism.

    Our demands for PBOS update that restores some trust in the company's products and ethics are not unreasonable, and having Kevin firmly deliver that message makes all the sense in the world.
    shief24 and blueberrymerry like this.
    07-02-13 11:52 AM
  3. Seeker2787's Avatar
    I personally was pretty bummed about the BB10 not coming to the Playbook. I have an Apple ecosystem (iPhone/iPod,iPad), an android ecosystem (Note II and Nexus 7). I was really looking forward to having the BlackBerry ecosystem of my Z10 and Playbook. I believe a lot of people here are in the same position in that they wanted the ecosystem and having a better overall experience with their tech.

    Anyway, I agree with those who have said they should have kept us better informed on the progress of Playbook BB10. The main issue I see coming from the business aspect of things is that they have definitely upset a portion of their customers. According to a research study published in Marketing Bulletin, consumers are more likely to NOT recommend a product or service based on poor experience and usage, than recommend to someone due to a positive experience. I believe the ratio was for every four positive comments there were 11 negative. So right out of the gate things are stacked against BlackBerry. (It's human nature I think that we tend to remember and focus on bad experiences rather than the positive ones) It is important to note this study was done in the mid 1990's before social media, and much faster ways of expressing opinions. So I would imagine the results would be similar, except people are able to more effectively share their opinions. I.e: The negative views are able to spread much more quickly, and the positive aspects get lost in the shuffle

    So I guess what I would like to see Kevin "ask" rather than tell I guess, is what's the plan for fixing the image. (Although I hope it won't be a scripted response...) From everything I see, Wall Street isn't big on BB, teens aren't big on BB, the "Bring your own device" option is not in BB's favor. Even if people didn't know about the Playbook aspect of things, I remember watching the superbowl and people were confused by the BB commercial and didn't talk about it. (Coming from a college campus). It's hard to find someone who cares that BlackBerry is even available in the United States. (I can't say for the rest of the world)

    I would like to know how they are going to fix their public image. I almost see this as a trickle down effect. No positive public image relates to poor carrier support/poor sales-->Decreased app development, (which again relates to poor sales by consumers and adds to the negative consumer opinion) I'm not sure how the track they are currently on with carrier delays, the app popular apps not being available natively, the marketing, etc; is going to improve their image or their standings.


    Sorry if it sounds like I'm rambling... I typed this quickly on my lunch break. So I appologize for typos and if it's confusing.
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-02-13 11:53 AM
  4. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    id like to think kevin will ask the hard questions, but I don't believe he will. Who bites the hand that feeds him ? he has his job because blackberry exists.

    Even though his journalistic skills are exemplitory and now could work anywhere in my opinion.
    Kevin is a shareholder, like any shareholders should be concern about any development in the company. He's also the Chief editor of this site, a site that provide news, information and tips about of all things BlackBerry. He has build up some relationship with BlackBerry so that any breaking news from the company he get's the first dip. Of course all this depending on how BB want to use this site to spread goodwill. It's far from equal relationship but that's the name of the game. Can he ask tough questions? Of course ! As long as he does not come across like some of us holding a pitch fork and torch ready to run Thor over the cliff. There's always diplomatic way of asking questions. Does not mean Thor will answer everyone of them. If there's an interview arrangement between Kevin and Thor, and if there's some hardball questions being ask and Thor refuse to answers them. It will be nice to be included in it's entirety uncensored on this site.
    07-02-13 11:55 AM
  5. sad_old_man's Avatar
    If thats the niche they want ( i always thought BB was for business users anyway)...but if they want to sell to the 'hip' generation (not the broken hip generation....like you and I) then the way to go is ANDROID.... of course this is all moot....until a buyer steps forward...
    Firstly I think that's their first problem, getting someone to buy them. Apart from, bb apple are the main corporate providers and it's a big market. The others sell phones to dweebs like us but we are a fickle lot who change brands at the first sign of a good marketing ad.

    The only way apple would consider buying bb would be to remove a competitor and then asset strip the company and offset the final loss against tax, so I think that let's them out of the scenario don't you.

    That leaves Microsoft and Google. The problem with Google is that a major customer of BB is the US government who I think may have some strong views on Google buying bb due to issues known to all of us. That leaves that little man that owns Microsoft. At present they only have Nokia flying the windows flag and Nokia themselves are still struggling back from the edge. Others are working on dual boot windows/android systems but it's still not a pure windows phone. BB would be a feather in microsofts cap and would also appease the US government (if that's possible). The problem is Microsoft are not actually making the profits they were and things are tight.

    It's a bit of a long shot but it may be that:

    someone in a little white house on the Prairie tells him at Microsoft to buy bb.
    Him at Microsoft complains about the cost.
    someone in a little white house on the Prairie tells him they will help.
    Him at Microsoft buys bb.
    someone in a little white house on the Prairie says thank you and completes the deal.

    ps I am in the cellar.
    dphjeff likes this.
    07-02-13 12:02 PM
  6. GoJaysGo's Avatar
    Seeing how Kevin's only existence seems to be because of BlackBerry. He should be thanking BlackBerry for still being alive. Without BlackBerry there would be no Crackberry, and Kevin would have to find a real job, I guess. Kevin is essentially a professional Fan Boy and BlackBerry evangelist...
    07-02-13 12:23 PM
  7. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    Seeing how Kevin's only existence seems to be because of BlackBerry. He should be thanking BlackBerry for still being alive. Without BlackBerry there would be no Crackberry, and Kevin would have to find a real job, I guess. Kevin is essentially a professional Fan Boy and BlackBerry evangelist...
    LOL!! I don't think you need to worry about Kevin's well being. BB might be tanking, Kevin would barely get a scratch.
    07-02-13 12:26 PM
  8. lnichols's Avatar
    So why buy from them if their history of letdowns is causnig you such problems and frustration?

    How does it go... "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."
    I gave them a chance because they switched out the management team and hoped it would bring about changes in the way the company operates and deals with its customers. I have decided not to upgrade three of my lines to BB10 devices and my existing two Z10s will be it for the next two year period.

    Why does people being upset and voicing frustration here on this topic cause you such frustration and issues? Or do you just feel the need to keep voicing your buyer beware and only buy based what it can do message over, and over, and ovet.

    Posted via CB10
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-02-13 12:29 PM
  9. FF22's Avatar
    Oh, I agree. And honestly, I think this happening negates when they do happen to do what they say. In truth, Thorsten always came across to me as much more committed to doing what he says than Mike or Jim. It's an extra big black eye.
    But you know, they were dreamers, maybe creating a nightmare but dreamers. I think Thor is more stick-in-the-mud. Abandoning tablets based on a 5-year death spiral?? Really?
    victorshikhman and dphjeff like this.
    07-02-13 12:34 PM
  10. FF22's Avatar
    If thats the niche they want ( i always thought BB was for business users anyway)...but if they want to sell to the 'hip' generation (not the broken hip generation....like you and I) then the way to go is ANDROID.... of course this is all moot....until a buyer steps forward...
    Hey, I resemble that Titanium remark!!!!
    JeepBB, Chrysalis1156 and dphjeff like this.
    07-02-13 12:37 PM
  11. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Go ahead and name a deadline they have kept without at least one postponement.
    They said BES 10 would support iOS and Android in Q2, and it was.

    Another 'little initiative' hit pretty close.

    They announced they were doing an App Store for launch in March 2009.


    They had it live on April 1st, 2009. I guess if you want to get semantic, they were off by a 'day'.

    Now feel free to list every single solitary promise they've ever made (since you claim they've never met one at any point in time in their entire corporate history) and we can go through them in detail if you like.

    I'm not arguing whether they've missed dates before (they have) ... just taking exception to the sweeping exaggerations that permeate these forums.
    Last edited by RubberChicken76; 07-02-13 at 02:27 PM.
    07-02-13 12:37 PM
  12. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    Back to the issue at hand though - perhaps a bunch of angry PlayBook owners should join Kevin at the annual meeting? Perhaps that might get the product reinstated.
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-02-13 12:39 PM
  13. bp3dots's Avatar
    It is sad and amusing that instead of counting all the promises they haven't kept, it's much easier to count the promises they have kept.

    @bp3dots, it would seem that, were it up to you, no criticism of any sort would be allowed at all. It appears all you're willing to condone is for Kevin to go up there and politely beg Heins to pretty please use Vaseline next time. But at least he'll sound professional, right?

    Kevin is not a reporter. He is the owner of an online tech fan community. Occasionally he breaks news or offers exclusive interviews and commentary, but only for the purpose of growing and sustaining this community. He markets products to this community and relies on the community's presence to sell advertisements. I've purchased products on Crackberry, and so have many others. He's earned the trust and respect of this community. Many of us are very upset with Blackberry's failed promises and direction, and are asking him to take a stand on behalf of many in the community.

    You seem to think Kevin's only role is to be a sycophant for Blackberry corporate. No, he can choose to speak forcefully and clearly that Blackberry and its CEO have lost the trust and respect of their customers, that they've treated us with utter contempt, that their promises have been exposed as empty propaganda (at best), and a cynical attempt to unload inventory (at worst).

    It was never even a doubt in my mind that he would do this in a professional and respectful manner, but also without being a doormat for anyone to walk over. And his strength in telling it straight will benefit Blackberry, not weaken it.

    Strong criticism of companies by their most loyal fans is a normal part of the product development cycle these days. Just ask Microsoft. Ask Apple. Ask Google. Every institution tries to resist change, but wise leadership adapts product development to meet consumer needs in a respectful way, because only by putting the customer first will a company make money and succeed. Blackberry is not above reproach. Heins is not above strong criticism.
    If you actually bothered to read what I wrote (several times) At no point did I say criticism was unnecessary/unwelcome. I DID say that many in this thread have voiced that Kevin should go about it in an inappropriate fashion. I have also offered up my own criticism on the PB update issue, so clearly I'm not against it.

    What you felt in your mind has to get translated to writing in a forum discussion, and if that's your feeling, you have conveyed it poorly.

    Read many of the posts here ans see how many are rants, and not "strong criticism." If you want to actually have a meaningful dialogue with someone, the criticism, while strong, needs to be constructive. I believe that I, and some others have offered such alternative questions. (Though they seemed too tame for you apparently.) One of the most important parts of improving a situation is knowing where, when, and how to deliver your criticisms, and I think teeing off with a bunch of angry questions at a shareholder meeting is a poor choice. There are posts in this thread that are more reasonable, though they are fewer by far.

    Again, as I have stated (had you bothered to read it) Kevin is a journalist, (be it for his own BB fan site or not) and he needs to act appropriately to keep his professional standards. It's not his job to go off all cockeyed at a CEO. That doesn't mean he has to be a yes man for the company.

    Why does people being upset and voicing frustration here on this topic cause you such frustration and issues? Or do you just feel the need to keep voicing your buyer beware and only buy based what it can do message over, and over, and ovet.Posted via CB10
    At what point did I say this was causing me frustration and issues? Am I not allowed to voice my opinion on the situation as well? Seeing as how this is an open forum, I think I am.

    That said, I find it more funny than frustrating that people are so pissed about it, considering my previously stated feelings about purchasing decisions. (And considering how many people around here got burned on the PB, I'm willing to bet quite a few will be more likely to look at a new purchase the way I do in the future. )
    Last edited by bp3dots; 07-02-13 at 02:05 PM. Reason: typos
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-02-13 01:00 PM
  14. Dave XII's Avatar
    @Kevin, kick his ***. Heins = Bloody liar!!! Don't get him away with PB OS 10 issue.
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-02-13 01:02 PM
  15. victorshikhman's Avatar
    @bp3dots

    Ok, great. Good to have you on board the choo-choo train.
    Next stop, Kevin at shareholder meeting, July 9th, getting results.
    07-02-13 01:31 PM
  16. JR A's Avatar
    Kevin: Good news, bad news, whatever. Thanks for keeping me in business!
    07-02-13 01:42 PM
  17. Bowlegz's Avatar
    WHAT THE HELL'S GOING HERE!!!! Would come to mind as what should be asked first, but then I guess that could be followed by a question about how will the company stop the bleeding, and what plans do they have to mount a SERIOUS marketing offensive to get the American market to really adopt BB10.
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-02-13 01:52 PM
  18. MultiPlatt's Avatar
    Maybe Kevin could convince them to do a beta release of what they are working with and let users decide if they want to install it at there own risk and then give feedback to Blackberry. I know plenty of software developers do this with some programs and I think it helps. I think with the talent QNX has they could make it work. For now though I will continue to use my playbook like I have been for a while now as it works just fine.
    07-02-13 02:00 PM
  19. bozvandam's Avatar
    Rhymes with "suck poo"
    07-02-13 02:00 PM
  20. kb5zht's Avatar
    id like to think kevin will ask the hard questions, but I don't believe he will. Who bites the hand that feeds him ? he has his job because blackberry exists.

    Even though his journalistic skills are exemplitory and now could work anywhere in my opinion.
    Kevin never could ask the tough ones. He is less a reporter in that regard and more of a cheerleader.

    If blackberry released an ashtray with the company logo the whole crackberry crew would hail it as innovative except maybe Blaze who is more unbiased and honest.
    blueberrymerry likes this.
    07-02-13 04:00 PM
  21. lexluthorxx's Avatar
    Kevin never could ask the tough ones. He is less a reporter in that regard and more of a cheerleader.

    If blackberry released an ashtray with the company logo the whole crackberry crew would hail it as innovative except maybe Blaze who is more unbiased and honest.
    oh...new thread....When will blackberry release this? ...how much would it be.....are there apps for it?...It will finally bring back bbry from the abyss.....cue the music....'This girl is on Fire'
    victorshikhman and sunsetblow like this.
    07-02-13 05:03 PM
  22. mikeycollins13's Avatar
    "He's fired"
    07-02-13 05:28 PM
  23. victorshikhman's Avatar
    Thanks to mcront35 for digging this up:

    Skip to 6m48s for the Playbook bit. I tried to embed the url to skip directly there, but it doesn't seem to be doing it.

    Last edited by victorshikhman; 07-02-13 at 06:07 PM. Reason: Added time stamp
    07-02-13 06:05 PM
  24. Bdot-1's Avatar
    First my boxxee box, then my Z10 is sold with a bunch of lies and now Playbook... Been a wonderful year for failing companies who don't give a sh!zzle about their customers.

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 07:11 PM
  25. Ragwan's Avatar
    If anything (I don't know if this have been mentioned already), I'd like Kevin to ask what exactly does "continuing support" for the playbook entails. Would like to think there will be some modules upgrade like full bridge for the people who owns os10 phones, which may sway me to a bb phone, along with the browser, keyboard, android runtime, BBM, and the likes.

    I would love to hear how/why it took Thor and company so long to finally admit what many already knew..

    Personally I don't care one way or another about Thor's future with BB, meaning if he got canned or not..

    Just want more communication from BB and I don't mean the copy and paste type of responses.
    07-02-13 07:27 PM
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