07-17-13 01:53 PM
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  1. WeAreNotAlone's Avatar
    Realistically speaking the number would not be 2.5 million. Not everyone will be **** off and persistent about their complain. Also it's regional, most countries did not have any pb owners, if any it's far and few in between. Having said that, even with 500 thousand **** off customers, there's going to be a lot of bad mouthing. We have no idea how dire situation is BB in at this point. They cannot afford more negative public relationship but they might not be in a position to extend the good will financially speaking.
    To expand on what you've said, the BB10 OS being promised, then reigned on is not going to affect 2.5 million as a large percentage of the 2.5 million never heard about it.

    This said if BB had remained true to their word, the company was being run by men of honor and integrity and a update would have been pushed out to all those 2.5 million PlayBooks out there it would have generated future sales far in excess of the cost of the update.

    Customer A: Hey, remember than old clunker of a tablet with hardy any apps, a poor browser, etc.... Well I fired it up today and they totally revamped EVERYTHING... bringing it current and making it competitive with offerings by other manufacturers.

    The thing has access to TONS of apps now, and it being their latest OS I can count on them rolling out updates for a while. My contract is up on my phones next month so I'm going to check those out as well.

    Hey, they even added the ability to go to Google Play and DIRECTLY install my wife's favorite game, or go to my banker, my real estate, my doctors website and install the apps they have listed on their website with a couple of mouse clicks.

    Thing will now do Skype, Netfix, Hulu (insert your favorite apps here)... WOW!

    Customer B: Who gave the tablet to their kids...

    Daddy, what does this mean? The little girl pointing towards a prompt that says a update is available. Customer I don't know -then clicks the update button. 40 +minutes later the customer is greeted by a totally new OS... Customer is naturally wondering what they've added and to "lock-down" the PlayBook so his little girl doesn't accidentally get on the net and find sites that might be age "inappropriate" he borrows it from the little girl.
    Several days later, a week passes and the little girl says, Daddy where's my PlayBook? Customer says to little girl- I'll buy you a brand-new tablet, They've updated that old tablet for big people now. (Daddy likes it now)

    *********************************

    Remember also besides 2.5 million customers directly affected with that brand-new shinny OS, these customers are going to be 'excited" about the "update" (It's new and shinny) and are going to be showing it off to fellow co-workers, friends, etc so that's also going to generate sales.

    ****************************
    * Ability to go to GooglePlay Store, and or be able to install Android apps easily.
    Real reason for making it hard on the end user is to protect revenue (profits) from apps being sold on "BlackBerry App World".
    I feel if they would use the "ADD-VALUE" angle they could actually increase overall app and device sales.

    What I mean by Add-Value is, they come out and say... You can buy your apps anywhere- BUT if you buy from us we back everything sold on "App World' with a no-hassle 2X money back policy. If you are ever unhappy with a app /it doesn't work right, we will refund your money and will give you a store credit as well. We stand behind what we sell 200%.
    Additionally unlike the other places you can get apps- Our apps don't contain "ads', they don't "track" you... they don't send your private data off to parts unknown.

    Second part of the plan is to price your (Android ports) apps inline with the competition. If they did this it would greatly expand the number of apps available and increase device sales. More devices out there mean those that are writing native apps would profit as well.

    (What I'd do if I was running APP-WORLD is when a customer is looking at apps... I'd show the native version right along side of it, funneling people towards the native apps... the slant being the native version is going to run say 20%-+ faster, use less battery than one running thru Android emulator...)

    Copyright WeAreNotAlone


    .
    FF22 and victorshikhman like this.
    07-10-13 03:10 AM
  2. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    I still can't see why a company so cash rich can't dedicate 10 programmers for 1 year @ $100,000.00 each to fix what they never delivered.

    A $1m investment to keep 2.5m PB owners loyal seems like a pretty good investment to me - and who knows a good proportion might buy further BBRY products and recomend others buy those products.

    For all those defending BBRY and saying they have to aim their limited budget and resources better - $1m is a neither here or there and Alicia Keys probably cost a whole lot more for less benefit.

    Listening to yeserdays AGM I got the feeling that Herr Heins has been reading to much Douglas Adams - cos his character, 'Dirk Gently' beleived in the fundamental interconectedeness of all things.
    07-10-13 03:42 AM
  3. bp3dots's Avatar
    This said if BB had remained true to their word, the company was being run by men of honor and integrity and a update would have been pushed out to all those 2.5 million PlayBooks out there it would have generated future sales far in excess of the cost of the update. (snip).
    The assumption is, they got it to work right. If they couldn't, then they push a buggy update that ends up ruining the experience for those customers who never knew there was an update supposed to come anyway. Now, instead of peeved techie owners who knew about the announcement, you have a much larger peeved group of users.

    There's no reason to think TH was being decietful when he said the performance was sub par for release. Especially considering there was no doubting his word earlier when he said the update was coming in the first place. (Yes, he should have worded it differently and this wouldn't be an issue) AKA, is he only a liar when the news is bad?

    Interesting ideas on the app store! Though I think the Play Store has to be licensed to use. (Could be wrong though) The 2x refund is certainly appealing if you try lots of apps, but could get expensive.
    07-10-13 05:34 AM
  4. bp3dots's Avatar
    I still can't see why a company so cash rich can't dedicate 10 programmers for 1 year @ $100,000.00 each to fix what they never delivered.

    A $1m investment to keep 2.5m PB owners loyal seems like a pretty good investment to me - and who knows a good proportion might buy further BBRY products and recomend others buy those products.

    For all those defending BBRY and saying they have to aim their limited budget and resources better - $1m is a neither here or there and Alicia Keys probably cost a whole lot more for less benefit.

    Listening to yeserdays AGM I got the feeling that Herr Heins has been reading to much Douglas Adams - cos his character, 'Dirk Gently' beleived in the fundamental interconectedeness of all things.
    As was pointed out earlier, it's very doubtful that most, let alone all, of the pb purchasers would have known about or cared. Remember, the people here are followers of tech news, most aren't. Also factor that considering the age of the PB, many could be not in use anyway.

    If everyone here who had a gripe with BB10/BBOS/PB could choose to have 1M spent to fix their particular concern, that 3B would be spent faster than I run to a Klondike bar. It IS important to spend wiseley and address the issues that will have the biggest benefit.
    07-10-13 05:40 AM
  5. ViBogdan's Avatar
    Hello all. I'm new here. I bought a Playbook in the winter based on Thor's promises that BB10 would be on the PB. Also I loved the OS...very similar tot the webOS which captured me from the very beginning.

    Then a couple of months ago, I got the Z10 for a 15 days test from my carrier. Loved it, but wasn't convinced by it to drop my One X and my iPhone for a BB10 device.

    Now I was waiting for BB10 to come to the PB so that I would re-evaluate my decision. Maybe if BB10 would have been nice on the tablet then I would have seriously considered a Z10 or Q10 to pair with my tablet. But no BB10 on the PB means no re-consideration from my side to buy a BB10 phone. At least not for the rest of the year.

    That's one of the things that Thor should hear. Maybe the sound of lost business would make him sacrifice some cash in order to bring an update to the PB.

    By the way, for the amount of money I spent on my PB, I'm satisfied with it. It does the limited job I bought it for, so no complaints there. But the impression that Blackberry left me, as a company, is not very rosy...What if I buy a Z10, and then I'm told that the next update is not coming because Thor does not like the way the sun shines on the screen of my Z10? What then?
    07-10-13 08:17 AM
  6. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    As was pointed out earlier, it's very doubtful that most, let alone all, of the pb purchasers would have known about or cared. Remember, the people here are followers of tech news, most aren't. Also factor that considering the age of the PB, many could be not in use anyway.

    If everyone here who had a gripe with BB10/BBOS/PB could choose to have 1M spent to fix their particular concern, that 3B would be spent faster than I run to a Klondike bar. It IS important to spend wiseley and address the issues that will have the biggest benefit.
    I understand your point, but I'm merely talking about fixing 2.1, if BBRY can't deploy BB10 then the least they can do is give the PB users such standard things as a fully working USB, an improved browser etc etc.

    A small team of developers could rattle that out pretty sharpish i'd have thought, hell they could even get BBM working probably.

    The good will generated from this would far out way the very small layout imho.

    Of course i'm just a customer who will never buy or beleive anything from BBRY again, so what do I know about it.
    07-10-13 10:11 AM
  7. gunnerfitzy's Avatar
    Did any new information, official or unofficial, come from the AGM yesterday?

    Posted via CB10 & my Z10
    07-10-13 11:02 AM
  8. bp3dots's Avatar
    I understand your point, but I'm merely talking about fixing 2.1, if BBRY can't deploy BB10 then the least they can do is give the PB users such standard things as a fully working USB, an improved browser etc etc.

    A small team of developers could rattle that out pretty sharpish i'd have thought, hell they could even get BBM working probably.

    The good will generated from this would far out way the very small layout imho.

    Of course i'm just a customer who will never buy or beleive anything from BBRY again, so what do I know about it.
    Ah, ok. That's pretty reasonable. Maybe it would fall into that continued support they promised.
    07-10-13 11:04 AM
  9. sparkaction's Avatar
    I think it would be reasonable and relatively inexpensive for BlackBerry to give every PB owner a $200 credit towards their next tablet offering. I am assuming that they will launch a new tablet.
    07-10-13 11:28 AM
  10. gunnerfitzy's Avatar
    I think it would be reasonable and relatively inexpensive for BlackBerry to give every PB owner a $200 credit towards their next tablet offering. I am assuming that they will launch a new tablet.
    Surely that would defeat the purpose of telling porky pies so that customers would buy a product on a promise of an upgrade that was never going to happen in order to sell excess stock that would otherwise have remained in the warehouse?? (rolls eyes)

    Posted via CB10 & my Z10
    07-10-13 02:05 PM
  11. victorshikhman's Avatar
    Every week now, sometimes twice a week, we get a BB10 device OS leak from Waterloo. I don't know if these leaks are purposefully released so that BB can 1) let people know what's coming and 2) collect stats from beta testers, or if some employees are careless, or intentionally sharing these OS leaks with the world.

    I find it interesting, however, that not a SINGLE Playbook OS leak made it into the wild, in the nearly 18 months since PBOS 2.1 was released.
    07-10-13 02:17 PM
  12. WeAreNotAlone's Avatar
    The assumption is, they got it to work right. If they couldn't, then they push a buggy update that ends up ruining the experience for those customers who never knew there was an update supposed to come anyway. Now, instead of peeved techie owners who knew about the announcement, you have a much larger peeved group of users.
    Understand the concept. Based upon that why was the PlayBook released with PB OS ver 1.0 again? Additionally why haven't key issues and shortcomings affecting V2.xxx been addressed?

    You could make the upgrade OPTIONAL
    It could be made REVERSIBLE
    BB could release a BB10 Lite.

    There's no reason to think TH was being decietful when he said the performance was sub par for release. Especially considering there was no doubting his word earlier when he said the update was coming in the first place. (Yes, he should have worded it differently and this wouldn't be an issue) AKA, is he only a liar when the news is bad?
    How long do you think it really took BB to figure out the "full" BB10 OS was going to be laggy?
    How long after was this was known was the announcement made the project was being killed?
    How many PlayBooks were in BB warehouses?
    How many had been sitting in retailers inventory?
    How long was the "announcement" made to kill the BB10 OS upgrade delayed?
    (In other words how long did they keep this info to themselves?)
    Did those that were privy to this info PROFIT from delaying the announcement?
    Did BB profit from delaying the announcement?

    (You surely wouldn't want this info released when you are launching a new product line, would you?)

    How many units were moved based upon BB stating ALL PlayBooks would be getting a upgrade to BB10 OS which would make the device current and enable the unit access to the BB10 app eco-system, and update the Android runtime to 4.xxx?

    Considering BB has a 3.1 billion cash warchest.... Are you in favor of a BUY-BACK PROGRAM for those that DID make a purchasing decision based upon BB stating a upgrade would be coming to the PlayBook series? . (Don't reply with the I buy products as-is not expecting key issues be addressed. I'm not talking about YOU.)


    Interesting ideas on the app store! Though I think the Play Store has to be licensed to use. (Could be wrong though) The 2x refund is certainly appealing if you try lots of apps, but could get expensive.
    Let me put it another way or expand a little, Here we have a device from a company that has a limited amount of native apps which isn't popular with consumers and will run competitors apps.... and it has a poor sales history due to a high initial cost and retailers are having a high amount of returns due to people finding out their favorite app(s) just aren't available.

    If I was making a device that had a very limited amount of native apps I would leverage competitors apps as much as possible.

    .
    07-10-13 03:29 PM
  13. anon1727506's Avatar
    Every week now, sometimes twice a week, we get a BB10 device OS leak from Waterloo. I don't know if these leaks are purposefully released so that BB can 1) let people know what's coming and 2) collect stats from beta testers, or if some employees are careless, or intentionally sharing these OS leaks with the world.

    I find it interesting, however, that not a SINGLE Playbook OS leak made it into the wild, in the nearly 18 months since PBOS 2.1 was released.
    You have a point, I didn't once install a leak or hybrid on my 9650. But my original STORM had a leak every few weeks and two or three hybrids in between.

    And I've tried four different leaks at this point on my Z10 in only a couple of months, and I've skipped several others.

    I think the key for the PlayBook is that most of these LEAKS that we have seen on the phones has been released by one carrier or another as official, or it is an offical beta OS that is being tweaked. Most of the PlayBooks didn't have radios so there was no reason for those to go through any carrier testing ans approval (which we assumed would be the case for new BB10 devices).

    I imagine only a small group of people at BBRY ever saw a PlayBook with BB10... of course most of them will probable be on the chopping block, so maybe a disgruntled worker will bring their work home with them.
    07-10-13 03:42 PM
  14. WeAreNotAlone's Avatar
    I think it would be reasonable and relatively inexpensive for BlackBerry to give every PB owner a $200 credit towards their next tablet offering. I am assuming that they will launch a new tablet.
    BUY-BACK PROGRAM

    Dear customer,
    If you made a purchasing decision to buy a BlackBerry Playbook based upon statements that were made saying ALL PlayBooks would get a upgrade to BB10 and are unhappy with the item contact us and we will make arrangements to have the items picked up.
    You will incur no additional costs, a pre-paid shipping label will be sent to you within (3) business days.

    Once items have been logged in and processed you will receive a check in the amount you paid for the items within 14-day business days. Be sure to include a copy of any receipts /invoices for items you are to get a refund on.

    Additionally, As a way of asking you to forgive us and consider us for your future business we are enclosing a Pre-Paid Visa card in the amount of $200 that can be used with any retailer as compensation for any time and aggravation you may have experienced.

    Signed,

    Thorsten Heins CEO of BlackBerry


    .
    schwede likes this.
    07-10-13 03:51 PM
  15. WeAreNotAlone's Avatar
    Every week now, sometimes twice a week, we get a BB10 device OS leak from Waterloo. I don't know if these leaks are purposefully released so that BB can 1) let people know what's coming and 2) collect stats from beta testers, or if some employees are careless, or intentionally sharing these OS leaks with the world.

    I find it interesting, however, that not a SINGLE Playbook OS leak made it into the wild, in the nearly 18 months since PBOS 2.1 was released.
    RE: I find it interesting, however, that not a SINGLE Playbook OS leak made it into the wild, in the nearly 18 months since PBOS 2.1 was released.

    It sounds like they (BlackBerry) never intended to make BB10 OS happen on the PlayBook.

    .
    Synerworks and AlexXF like this.
    07-10-13 03:57 PM
  16. bp3dots's Avatar
    Understand the concept. Based upon that why was the PlayBook released with PB OS ver 1.0 again? Additionally why haven't key issues and shortcomings affecting V2.xxx been addressed?

    You could make the upgrade OPTIONAL
    It could be made REVERSIBLE
    BB could release a BB10 Lite.
    Why is anything released with version 1.0? And I have no clue why they never fixed the problems. (But that is defintely one reason I wouldn't personally have bought one on faith of a future update.)

    I think those are all good choices if they do manage an update.

    How long do you think it really took BB to figure out the "full" BB10 OS was going to be laggy?
    How long after was this was known was the announcement made the project was being killed?
    How many PlayBooks were in BB warehouses?
    How many had been sitting in retailers inventory?
    How long was the "announcement" made to kill the BB10 OS upgrade delayed?
    (In other words how long did they keep this info to themselves?)
    Did those that were privy to this info PROFIT from delaying the announcement?
    Did BB profit from delaying the announcement?

    (You surely wouldn't want this info released when you are launching a new product line, would you?)

    How many units were moved based upon BB stating ALL PlayBooks would be getting a upgrade to BB10 OS which would make the device current and enable the unit access to the BB10 app eco-system, and update the Android runtime to 4.xxx?
    As I obviously don't have access to that info, I won't speculate. I am only postulating that there is as good a chance that the intention to get BB10 done was serious. And in that respect we're at a stalemate without more information that we'll probably never get.

    Considering BB has a 3.1 billion cash warchest.... Are you in favor of a BUY-BACK PROGRAM for those that DID make a purchasing decision based upon BB stating a upgrade would be coming to the PlayBook series? . (Don't reply with the I buy products as-is not expecting key issues be addressed. I'm not talking about YOU.)
    Nope. If they were going to give any kind of monetary recompense, I would do it in the form of a mail-in-rebate off thr purchase of a BB10 handset. Valid to anyone who purchased a PB after the announcement was made, with proof of purchase. I'd probably say $50, or maybe $100 for something like the A series. That way you get to keep driving adoption of your new OS, which is sorely needed, while saying sorry.

    Let me put it another way or expand a little, Here we have a device from a company that has a limited amount of native apps which isn't popular with consumers and will run competitors apps.... and it has a poor sales history due to a high initial cost and retailers are having a high amount of returns due to people finding out their favorite app(s) just aren't available.

    If I was making a device that had a very limited amount of native apps I would leverage competitors apps as much as possible..
    I don't disagree with the idea, I just thing the implementation would be very difficult to do well and cost effectively. I still think they should be more focused on driving native app creation than supporting ports/sideloads. If a future Android update broke the system, its going to lead to a lot of peeved users who bought BB10 based on using Android apps.
    07-10-13 04:59 PM
  17. victorshikhman's Avatar
    For all those who though BB had enough integrity to push out an update to address issues with the Playbook they've been promising to remedy for the last 18 months... they just don't care.

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/VictorShikhman">@VictorShikhman</a> confirmed</p>&mdash; Alec Saunders (@asaunders) <a href="https://twitter.com/asaunders/statuses/355070664081817600">July 10, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    This is not acceptable.
    Attached Thumbnails What should Kevin tell Thorsten Heins at Shareholder Meeting Jul 9?-playbook-dead.jpg  
    07-10-13 05:31 PM
  18. Barracuda7772's Avatar
    For all those who though BB had enough integrity to push out an update to address issues with the Playbook they've been promising to remedy for the last 18 months... they just don't care.

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a href="https://twitter.com/VictorShikhman">@VictorShikhman</a> confirmed</p> Alec Saunders (@asaunders) <a href="https://twitter.com/asaunders/statuses/355070664081817600">July 10, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    This is not acceptable.
    No it is not acceptable at all. 100,000+ playbook owners were just crapped on. this just in the playbook doesn't have enough ram for updated apps.
    07-10-13 06:12 PM
  19. Bdot-1's Avatar
    I wish the worst on all their children's children over at blackberry who made this desicion. Obviously if they don't care about releasing an environment unfriendly product with a two year shelf life, then the environment should take them out!!! End of story

    Posted via CB10
    07-10-13 07:22 PM
  20. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    I wish the worst on all their children's children over at blackberry who made this desicion. Obviously if they don't care about releasing an environment unfriendly product with a two year shelf life, then the environment should take them out!!! End of story

    Posted via CB10
    Seriously, there are bigger fishes to fry if you want to talk about environment. Exxon, Shell just to name two at the top of my head. Let's not muddy up the issue of incompetence by BB regarding development of playbook.
    07-10-13 07:40 PM
  21. FF22's Avatar
    For all those who though BB had enough integrity to push out an update to address issues with the Playbook they've been promising to remedy for the last 18 months... they just don't care.

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://twitter.com/VictorShikhman">@VictorShikhman</a> confirmed</p>— Alec Saunders (@asaunders) <a rel="nofollow" href="https://twitter.com/asaunders/statuses/355070664081817600">July 10, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    This is not acceptable.
    Now ask him about Corporate Integrity!
    dphjeff likes this.
    07-10-13 08:51 PM
  22. Bdot-1's Avatar
    I agree 100%, although I don't think any company should get away with what BlackBerry, apple and android are doing to the market either... I thought better of blackberry out of the big three! There are many worse offenders but it's our choice to stand up and express our feelings at the moment. As a society were guilty of short term memory. I too will forget all about this and move on, probably buy another BlackBerry device in the future as well. Who knows... But I won't let the moment pass by to express my view of all of us being enablers to large corporations with strictly profit driven agendas and buying into it.

    Posted via CB10
    FF22 likes this.
    07-10-13 10:45 PM
  23. Mikhou's Avatar
    BA*STARD & Liars... They will go Bankrupt soon.... Who want develop Apps for a company that have an BIG Piggy Slow Unoptimized OS ??

    You will Never see the Big Native Apps Promised on BB10 !!!!

    LIAR LIAR LIAR !!!
    07-10-13 11:48 PM
  24. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    For all those who though BB had enough integrity to push out an update to address issues with the Playbook they've been promising to remedy for the last 18 months... they just don't care.

    <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://twitter.com/VictorShikhman">@VictorShikhman</a> confirmed</p>— Alec Saunders (@asaunders) <a rel="nofollow" href="https://twitter.com/asaunders/statuses/355070664081817600">July 10, 2013</a></blockquote>
    <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

    This is not acceptable.
    SO...... there we have it, the playbook is utterly dead from BBRY's point of view. I wonder if by 'technical support' they just mean adhering to their warranty terms ??

    What I find funny is that all BBRY's official websites still carry the playbook as supported hardware.
    07-11-13 03:49 AM
  25. Hirazi Blue's Avatar
    So mister Saunders reply would seem harsh but at the same time it's crystal clear.
    Thanks for asking, @victorshikhman.
    This at least "simplifies" matters greatly IMHO.

    You can/should now decide to (in no particular order):
    1. take some kind of legal action
    2. move on
    3. make the most of the Playbook as is

    Maintaining a lot of threads just moaning about the situation IMHO is just as silly as all them irritating silly threads that annoy you all so much... Believe me: NOBODY likes what happened here!
    Last edited by Hirazi Blue; 07-11-13 at 04:37 AM. Reason: typo in name
    uncle_numpty likes this.
    07-11-13 04:26 AM
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