1. marvini's Avatar
    Well said man. I won't go as far and say that I am abandoning the platform (YET!!!) but I can sense the anger inside. I share this.
    This may very well fall on deaf ears, but hopefully not.
    Let me be a bit specific. For example, Firstly: Netflix..yes Netflix. Why can't BlackBerry pay them to build an app? If it's no cost to them but only additional subscriptions..how can that be bad?
    Secondly : advertising of BB10 downright sucks. This is how we reach out to the masses. Do something different for heavens sake.
    Let's see what happens next.


    Posted via CB10
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-01-13 11:18 PM
  2. lexluthorxx's Avatar
    Why does anyone think Kevin has any 'sway'.
    WTF are you people smoking? (of course if he had any sway then that would be a good thing to say...BUT HE DOESN'T....)

    So i've decided not to cut my hair until you people stop making suggestions about what Kevin should tell Thor.

    Although he could say......
    'Thor?....Your'e Thor....I'm Thor.....you'd be Thor too it you were btfked as much as the playbook owners were!'

    on second thought ...better not use that....Highbrow humour might be lost....on those stiffs.
    07-01-13 11:20 PM
  3. Gearheadaddy's Avatar
    Tell Mr. H to please send us PlayBook owners compensation for the lie about updating the Playbook to BB10. I purchased mine to have all my apps and Bridge compatible. I have found that my purchase was done in good faith, but that there is no update to BB10 coming. I spent $300 on a 64GB Playbook on the premise of BB10 os. I was planning on using it with my Z10 as I did with my 8530 Curve. It doesn't work.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-13 11:36 PM
  4. w0lfgang's Avatar
    OF COURSE Thorsten or one of the others will pull this PR nonsense. Which is why I am urging Kevin to be strong and lay it out the way I did in the opening post. Don't let any of them smooth talk you into submission. These people flat out lied to their most loyal customers, apparently simply to help liquidate some excess inventory. They have no respect for their customers and developers, who stood with Blackberry through the company's worst days. Their words mean NOTHING to any of us now. They need to be told to go back and make good on their promises before even thinking of regaining anyone's trust.

    Thorsten was supposed to be the white knight, the guy who would give it to us straight and keep his word, who would set the Blackberry ship back on course and clear out the old corporate trash. Blackberry's corporate culture of impunity, of open contempt for customers and developers, of sheer arrogance and willful neglect of their most loyal fans needs to be challenged. This isn't about a single device or a single promise, but a systematic pattern of abuse that has, over the course of years, crippled brand loyalty and eroded market share to dust.

    This company doesn't respect the people who buy its products, or the developers who toil to make the platform a success. It expects us to rally behind the brand and then dumps us at the earliest opportunity, without having even come close to fulfilling its promises. All you BB apologists simply don't get it - business is not simply about money, it is also about people, about simple decency. Companies like Apple and Google make gobs of money, yes, but they exist and function to make great products that people will enjoy.

    Even if pushing out the stupid Playbook update would have cost Blackberry money (how much would it really have cost them?!!! A few million, max? It was practically done!) Thorsten should have made a choice to stand with his customers, to deliver on his promise and to get as much of BB10 as possible - a platform he believes will lead BB to success for the next decade - into an installed base of 2.5 million Playbooks!

    This should not have been a difficult decision for a company that stood with confidence behind its products, that cherished its customers, and had a CEO with the decency to live by his word. That's a Blackberry we would have rallied around.

    But that's not the Blackberry that exists, and if they want our trust back... or, let me put it in a language even Thorsten can understand... if they want our MONEY ever again, they need to stand by their own 'effing word and deliver what they promised us!

    Kevin, be bold, go out there and uppercut these people.
    Genius....+1
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-01-13 11:42 PM
  5. victorshikhman's Avatar
    Why does anyone think Kevin has any 'sway'.
    WTF are you people smoking? (of course if he had any sway then that would be a good thing to say...BUT HE DOESN'T....)
    As a shareholder, Kevin can go up to the mic and say whatever he wants. Having him go up there, with everyone knowing who he is and what he represents - the largest BB fan community in the world, the hardcore fanbase - and have him tear the CEO's credibility apart... if you think that would not be a dramatic slap in the face and a wake-up call to this company, then what would?

    Kevin, you can go up there and ask the same milquetoast questions and get the same PR BS that we've been getting for YEARS. Please, make this count and hit them hard.

    What are they going to do? Revoke your once a year backstage pass to something or other? The way they're going, might not be a next year. This company and its CEO need to be taught to keep their commitments, to treat their customers and developers with dignity and respect.
    07-01-13 11:48 PM
  6. Tinomane's Avatar
    Kevin should ask him if the investor relations dept. actually exists.
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-02-13 12:43 AM
  7. bp3dots's Avatar
    Kevin, we would really appreciate it if you could speak on behalf of us all blackberry users at the BlackBerry AGM. We as owners of the PlayBook and BlackBerry 10 devices have stuck with RIM and now BlackBerry disappointment after disappointment, delays and we are on the ground level so to speak as advertisers of this amazing platform. We know what the average iphone or android user wants in a phone. We know what someone sitting on the fence wants in a phone. In a way, we are testers of the BB10 platform and by listening to what we have to say will not only help BlackBerry improve on the software but also reach out to the skeptics and misinformed. Does BlackBerry know what the average consumer wants? I'm beginning to think that they don't.
    If the platform continues to dissapoint, why are you still using it? Unless BB is paying you to beta test, you are doing yourself a disservice by using a product you arent happy with. (at your own expense, no less.)

    Tell Mr. H to please send us PlayBook owners compensation for the lie about updating the Playbook to BB10. I purchased mine to have all my apps and Bridge compatible. I have found that my purchase was done in good faith, but that there is no update to BB10 coming. I spent $300 on a 64GB Playbook on the premise of BB10 os. I was planning on using it with my Z10 as I did with my 8530 Curve. It doesn't work. Posted via CB10
    You PB does everything now that it did when you bought it. You have lost nothing since the announcement. There's no reason they would reimburse you. Lesson to be learned is the classic "buyer beware."
    aniym likes this.
    07-02-13 12:46 AM
  8. Darlaten's Avatar
    As a shareholder, Kevin can go up to the mic and say whatever he wants. Having him go up there, with everyone knowing who he is and what he represents - the largest BB fan community in the world, the hardcore fanbase - and have him tear the CEO's credibility apart... if you think that would not be a dramatic slap in the face and a wake-up call to this company, then what would?

    Kevin, you can go up there and ask the same milquetoast questions and get the same PR BS that we've been getting for YEARS. Please, make this count and hit them hard.

    What are they going to do? Revoke your once a year backstage pass to something or other? The way they're going, might not be a next year. This company and its CEO need to be taught to keep their commitments, to treat their customers and developers with dignity and respect.
    And there are other shareholders who, despite the horrible news that came out, are quite glad that BB has buried and left for dead the Playbook. I somehow doubt very much that any shareholder will ask a question pertaining to the Playbook on July 9th. The ship has sailed on the Playbook - and it sunk. Leave it buried and turn your attention to what truly matters - the promotion and development of BB10 phones as a fiable alternative to Android and iOS; to continue to compete against WindowsOS in preventing MS from securing permanently the 3rd spot in mobile phones; and to continue striving on meeting deadlines and delivering OS updates to the BB10 OS.
    07-02-13 12:52 AM
  9. bp3dots's Avatar
    As a shareholder, Kevin can go up to the mic and say whatever he wants. Having him go up there, with everyone knowing who he is and what he represents - the largest BB fan community in the world, the hardcore fanbase - and have him tear the CEO's credibility apart... if you think that would not be a dramatic slap in the face and a wake-up call to this company, then what would?

    Kevin, you can go up there and ask the same milquetoast questions and get the same PR BS that we've been getting for YEARS. Please, make this count and hit them hard.

    What are they going to do? Revoke your once a year backstage pass to something or other? The way they're going, might not be a next year. This company and its CEO need to be taught to keep their commitments, to treat their customers and developers with dignity and respect.
    Besides the ridiculous unprofessionalism of that idea, let's point out that "the largest BB fan community" is still a minute portion of BB users out there. Besides making the people on CB all riled up, that would do nothing productive.

    Wanting to topple over the head of your company, who has been doing as good a job as could be done with the sh!tshow he was left is about as smart as licking a flagpole in the middle of a Waterloo winter.

    Ask TH. for more transparency, for more directed marketing, a program to get actual user feedback to dev teams more directly. Ask is he can shed light on how BB intends to address comverting developing nations BBOS markets to BB10. THOSE are the kind of things that would actually be productive. Not crying over old tablets missing out on an update.
    haringfish likes this.
    07-02-13 12:54 AM
  10. victorshikhman's Avatar
    You PB does everything now that it did when you bought it. You have lost nothing since the announcement. There's no reason they would reimburse you. Lesson to be learned is the classic "buyer beware."
    Let's imagine we are talking about the new Xbox console (or most any other piece of high-end tech these days). Does the owner of a new Xbox have an expectation that there will be more games released than are available on day 1? Let's say after day 1, Microsoft announces that no more games will be licensed for Xbox. According to your logic, he should shut his mouth and be happy that he got a console for which only a handful of games are available. Yet, clearly, people don't buy an xbox console for the games available at launch. They buy it for the hundreds of new games which they expect will be developed for the platform. There is an expectation that Microsoft will support the platform with bug fixes, that it will satisfy customer needs well into the future, for the next decade even!

    Modern tech is not like going to a hardware store and getting a box of nails, where you accept and understand the full potential of the product and have no one to blame but yourself. You are not just buying a piece of hardware, you are buying into an ecosystem, bug support, platform development, etc. This is an industry standard. Apple does it like this. Android does it like this. Microsoft does it like this. Blackberry promised to do it like that... Not to mention, YET AGAIN, that the CEO of Blackberry GAVE HIS WORD...

    Look, if you still don't get it, go back to the beginning of the thread and start reading from scratch instead of nipping at our heels 60 posts in.
    07-02-13 12:59 AM
  11. victorshikhman's Avatar
    Besides the ridiculous unprofessionalism of that idea... Ask TH. for more transparency, for more directed marketing, a program to get actual user feedback to dev teams more directly. Ask is he can shed light...
    You're a doormat. The man lied to his customers in order to clear excess inventory. He has ZERO credibility. Anything he says is smoke and mirrors; totally meaningless. He could say ANYTHING, literally ANYTHING, and do the exact opposite a mere 3 months later. You know how I know this? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE JUST DID! And then you'd be telling us the same thing, that it's "ridiculous unprofessionalism" to challenge this open contempt for the customer. What's unprofessional is to pretend he's still worthy of our respect and trust, instead of standing up and calling him out on his BS and demanding he fulfill his promise before any of us spend another dime on BB products.
    kraschute likes this.
    07-02-13 01:09 AM
  12. victorshikhman's Avatar
    The ship has sailed on the Playbook - and it sunk. Leave it buried and turn your attention to what truly matters - the promotion and development of BB10 phones as a fiable alternative to Android and iOS; to continue to compete against WindowsOS in preventing MS from securing permanently the 3rd spot in mobile phones; and to continue striving on meeting deadlines and delivering OS updates to the BB10 OS.
    I think you're missing the point. My job is not to make money for BB, or to help BB compete against Android and iOS. I'm not employed by Blackberry. That's Thorsten's job. All I'm here to do is purchase and support great products and promising technologies that make me happy. Not allowing a CEO to lie to my face for over a year in order to sell off some excess inventory... I guess we'll just call that a hobby?

    In an earlier post, somewhere on page 5, I wrote that business is not simply about making money, it's about people and decency. I'm not here to purchase BB products just to give your earnings a bump; that's not my life's purpose. The fact that Blackberry has abused its customers, treating them like cash machines that are milked for the next quarterly earnings call, this is why the brand is on the verge of death.

    Restoring customer trust and rebuilding corporate integrity is never a bad business decision. I strongly recommend you go back and read through my earlier posts, and stop thinking of Blackberry customers as sheep that you have a right to fleece every so often.
    kraschute likes this.
    07-02-13 01:20 AM
  13. bp3dots's Avatar
    Let's imagine we are talking about the new Xbox console (or most any other piece of high-end tech these days). Does the owner of a new Xbox have an expectation that there will be more games released than are available on day 1? Let's say after day 1, Microsoft announces that no more games will be licensed for Xbox. According to your logic, he should shut his mouth and be happy that he got a console for which only a handful of games are available. Yet, clearly, people don't buy an xbox console for the games available at launch. They buy it for the hundreds of new games which they expect will be developed for the platform. There is an expectation that Microsoft will support the platform with bug fixes, that it will satisfy customer needs well into the future, for the next decade even!

    Modern tech is not like going to a hardware store and getting a box of nails, where you accept and understand the full potential of the product and have no one to blame but yourself. You are not just buying a piece of hardware, you are buying into an ecosystem, bug support, platform development, etc. This is an industry standard. Apple does it like this. Android does it like this. Microsoft does it like this. Blackberry promised to do it like that... Not to mention, YET AGAIN, that the CEO of Blackberry GAVE HIS WORD...

    Look, if you still don't get it, go back to the beginning of the thread and start reading from scratch instead of nipping at our heels 60 posts in.
    Those two are in no way comparable. Pick an example that isn't apples to oranges and try again. And I've already read the whole thread, thanks.

    You're a doormat. The man lied to his customers in order to clear excess inventory. He has ZERO credibility. Anything he says is smoke and mirrors; totally meaningless. He could say ANYTHING, literally ANYTHING, and do the exact opposite a mere 3 months later. You know how I know this? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT HE JUST DID! And then you'd be telling us the same thing, that it's "ridiculous unprofessionalism" to challenge this open contempt for the customer. What's unprofessional is to pretend he's still worthy of our respect and trust, instead of standing up and calling him out on his BS and demanding he fulfill his promise before any of us spend another dime on BB products.
    You don't know me, so keep your commentary on my personality to yourself.

    I've already stated that he shouldn't have promised something that wasn't 100% ready to ship. But, sometimes that happens in the real world. Playbooks don't function any less today than they did a week ago. Just because people bought them wanting BB10 doesn't mean jack. If you buy something on the hope that it will be different in the future, its a gamble. Look at the package, instructions, advertising for you PB. Is BB10 anywhere on it? If it is, then you have a legimate gripe, and should probably be trying to raise a false advertising suit. If its not, then you got what you paid for.
    07-02-13 01:26 AM
  14. tgtallinn's Avatar
    As a loyal BlackBerry User and Invest or for many years:
    1. Start an effective marketing campaign. The Super Bowl Commercial was among the lamest I've ever seen.
    2. Stop missing deadlines.
    3. Protect and keep your commitments to your most loyal fans: the crackberry fans that continue you wait, buy your products (i.e. PlayBook). Then Heins talks like his decision is optional

    Sounds like he is trying to run the company into the ground.

    Look how we waited and waited. Remember the lame launch of the product? That should've told all of us something. How about watching how Samsung or Apple launches a product. I almost feel asleep watching the BlackBerry 10 announcement!
    Software industry is so that you can almost either hit the deadline and miss the features or meet the features and miss the deadline. It means that a marketing can not be based on external events hence the increase of companies private shows at the expense of traditional exhibition. In super bowl you shouldn't promote a product but a brand.
    07-02-13 01:54 AM
  15. Xano's Avatar
    Heins has bigger problems than the PlayBook and delivering OS 10 on it.
    Apple will release new iPhones (a entry level iPhone version) in September, probably they will sell 5 million units in few days and gain million of costumers.
    I know many BB and Android users who will move to iOS in September.
    BB is collapsing and it will become a penny stock in months.
    Z10 was launch one month ago, already have a 200 Euros price drop in my country, even with this killer price is not selling. This means big problems on the way.
    You can have the best product on the universe, but if your not selling it is worthless.
    07-02-13 04:30 AM
  16. letmein13's Avatar
    If Thor made a promise, he should go through with his promise. If he didn't, he should at least tell consumers a reason behind his change of heart. Saying NO BB10 to PB users doesn't cut it.
    victorshikhman and bob_tn like this.
    07-02-13 05:34 AM
  17. letmein13's Avatar
    Z10 was launch one month ago, already have a 200 Euros price drop in my country, even with this killer price is not selling. This means big problems on the way.
    You can have the best product on the universe, but if your not selling it is worthless.
    BB has a lot of problems:

    1- Software: their OS 10 isn't quite there yet because it misses many basic features such as select, deselect, copy, and paste text message from 1 app to another. Their updates to address OS problems are very SLOW. Furthermore, it's a big turn off when they include half-ars apps in smartphone such as Remember app. I wish they announced a plan to release OS update on the first Tuesday of every month or something like that so that we know when we can update it.

    2- Hardware: they're playing a catchup game with big phone names and they are loosing because they can't release a new phone fast enough. By the time their new phones are out, they are 1 step behind their competitors. When consumers look at BB phones and Apple or Sam Sung phones, there is not a compelling reason to buy BB phones because what BB phone has that Apple or Sam Sung phone doesn't. When you throw in apps selections, BB looses big time.

    Apple , Sam Sung, Sony, and HTC have high end phones. MS and Nokia have low end phones. The sad news is BB doesn't dominate in high end or low end phones area. I'd rather see BB focus on 1 area and be the best instead of being at 2 areas and loosing in competition. By the way, Apple will release a low end iphone 6 in the next few months.

    3- Apps selection: BB doesn't do a good job at partnering with other companies. I see a lot of big game names creating new games for BB 10 but I can't see this partnership in app department. I don't know why. BB game department is better than app department because I spent 200 dollars on games while spending 20 dollars for apps. BB should reach out app companies which have app in android and ios and tell them to do the same for BB. Until they can accomplish in building partnerships with others, I don't see Apple or Sam Sung users want to switch to BB phone because of lacking app selections and having the same phone hardware.
    07-02-13 05:51 AM
  18. lexluthorxx's Avatar
    As a shareholder, Kevin can go up to the mic and say whatever he wants. Having him go up there, with everyone knowing who he is and what he represents - the largest BB fan community in the world, the hardcore fanbase - and have him tear the CEO's credibility apart... if you think that would not be a dramatic slap in the face and a wake-up call to this company, then what would?

    Kevin, you can go up there and ask the same milquetoast questions and get the same PR BS that we've been getting for YEARS. Please, make this count and hit them hard.

    What are they going to do? Revoke your once a year backstage pass to something or other? The way they're going, might not be a next year. This company and its CEO need to be taught to keep their commitments, to treat their customers and developers with dignity and respect.
    first highlight: of course he can...if he can get near the mic...and if anyone entertains his question....and actually answers it (they won't)

    second highlight: no disrespect to Kevin that and $1.50 will get you a cup of coffee

    third highlight: i think they knew all along what they were getting with this 'CEO'

    fourth highlight: They are not looking for a slap in the face....they are looking to sell the company....and it will be sold, very soon
    07-02-13 07:18 AM
  19. njblackberry's Avatar
    And Kevin isn't stupid enough to bite the hand that feeds him on behalf of the enthusiast community.

    Thorsten Heins may be an excellent CEO, but he is an awful communicator and should not be the face of BlackBerry. But it is way too late for that.
    07-02-13 07:20 AM
  20. aniym's Avatar
    Kevin should ask Thor what the strategy is for transitioning BB into a software-only company. Let's not kid ourselves, BB10 hardware isn't a sustainable line of business when shipments are a percentage point of what your rivals are achieving. If the Aristo ever makes it to market, I expect it to be the last BB10 device as the company transitions into a mobile device management oriented shop.

    And guys, enough about the Playbook. I understand that Thorsten lied, but in the wider world, he did no more damage to BB's name because the market had already written off the Playbook back in 2011.
    07-02-13 07:26 AM
  21. bambinoitaliano's Avatar
    Kevin should ask Thor what the strategy is for transitioning BB into a software-only company. Let's not kid ourselves, BB10 hardware isn't a sustainable line of business when shipments are a percentage point of what your rivals are achieving. If the Aristo ever makes it to market, I expect it to be the last BB10 device as the company transitions into a mobile device management oriented shop.

    And guys, enough about the Playbook. I understand that Thorsten lied, but in the wider world, he did no more damage to BB's name because the market had already written off the Playbook back in 2011.
    Let's not underestimate the negative impact it has by announcing Q1 result together with non update news of playbook. Playbook owners usually own other BB products. How it was communicated after a promise and silence in between and the hemming and hawing have shaken the confidence of some loyal customers. Like BB can afford to lose more customers.
    victorshikhman and bob_tn like this.
    07-02-13 07:38 AM
  22. sad_old_man's Avatar
    i just wonder what will happen when BlackBerry is taken over....the phone will be called blackberry, the software gutted and replaced by 'Android' O/S . ... and before any Crackberians rise up and 'stone the heritic'.. remember...the current bb10 already emulates android, the playbook...(that red headed step child) os2.1.....also emulates android... And for all the complaining and disparaging of Android....one of the things users of BB10 want is an upgrade of Android to emulate Jelly Bean.....and...why would they want that???? because the 'apps' are on Android...not native.....but wait...they aren't native...because...there is no money...in developing ....or even 'porting' them over...FGS ....wake up...its only a nightmare.

    The current Blackberry will be bought and broken up......and 'absorbed' into the 'buyers' stable....Any new phones will not be BB10 they will be Android (if you want them to survive) and you will be happy....and you will complain....but the new company will listen to you with the same indifference as the current one......and you will go and buy another phone/device.....from that company....until you tire of that or your brain turns to mush...and you become cheerleaders...or trollbashers...or apple haters........

    But remember this my friends.........This company doesn't care about you!...They sell you the product, you buy it....thats as far as it goes. You are a stat, a sale...thats it.
    Knew you would get it Lex. The name BlackBerry would be retained by any new owner as it provides another established route to market for them. HTC run DROID, why not BlackBerry? It could however become another phone in the Windows stable which would be more acceptable to business users.

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 08:26 AM
  23. kraschute's Avatar
    Playbooks don't function any less today than they did a week ago. Just because people bought them wanting BB10 doesn't mean jack.
    You don't understand even it is so easy...people bought the PB beause it was advertised everywhere that it'll get BB10. My current Playbooks can't do proper IMAP folder mapping so email is useless. They do not provide DLNA even this was always promised, delayed and then promised later with BB10. Result is we can't use ourPlaybooks as media controllers in the house. The browser often just crashes, so even browsing isn't a great experience. I'm bound to a BB viedo chat only, but have no Skype, no proper messaging account integration, no full messaging when BBM comes to other platforms, so even for this the PB is pretty useless. Also when buying the PB it wasn't promised a nearly empty App store. People had a 1000 reasons to wait for BB10 and if you did not then you very personally have too low expectations. Just because you let yourself being fooled by a company not everyone else must do the same...capiche? You sound like a castrated person who is happy that he still has a very beautiful voice for singing :-)
    Last edited by kraschute; 07-02-13 at 08:55 AM.
    victorshikhman likes this.
    07-02-13 08:38 AM
  24. sad_old_man's Avatar
    I would be, my voice is awful!

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 08:40 AM
  25. uncle_numpty's Avatar
    Kevin should ask Thor what the strategy is for transitioning BB into a software-only company. Let's not kid ourselves, BB10 hardware isn't a sustainable line of business when shipments are a percentage point of what your rivals are achieving. If the Aristo ever makes it to market, I expect it to be the last BB10 device as the company transitions into a mobile device management oriented shop.

    And guys, enough about the Playbook. I understand that Thorsten lied, but in the wider world, he did no more damage to BB's name because the market had already written off the Playbook back in 2011.
    Unfortunately, broken promises do affect the market, as does failing to make a profit.

    And lets all be honest here, BB10 certainly isn't finished, cos it still lacks quite a bit of basic functionality and updates aren't exactly flying out the door frm BBRY - reminds me of the PB situation and shows BBRY have learnt nothing from the last 2 years, except a whole new raft of platitudes.
    07-02-13 08:46 AM
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