[RubberChicken76]

In reading through these frustrated threads about the availability of the PlayBook for sale, successor PlayBooks coming, BlackBerry 10 for PlayBook coming etc, I keep struggling with the same issue: how does BlackBerry keep the line gong and turn a profit doing it?

As much as I love the PlayBook and want to see it continue (as do many here), my sense is that BlackBerry is still struggling with why they should dump money into a line that has already lost them a bunch of money? Remember, the PlayBook shipped around 850,000 units, then they were forced to take a huge write down on the value of inventory. This was presumably done to help move through inventory in the channel by price cuts and convince the retailers to take more in.

Since then, they shipped another million and a half or so, but at heavily discounted rates. Chances are good that they ultimately lost money on every one that went out the door, though they got more revenue in than they would have if they all came back and were scrapped.

If the rumours are true, they are now 'out' of the WiFi model and only selling the LTE model through restricted, low risk channels, as needed.

So this begs the question? How can they create a newer, more modern tablet based on BlackBerry 10 and turn a profit?

It's tough! People will want newer hardware (probably quad core, at least double the ram, more storage options and a retina quality display) to go with the times.

Amazon can sell Kindle Fires for less, because they sell Amazon content through it and they have their own distribution channel in Amazon.ca

Apple can command premium pricing due to brand, gets economies of scale on parts due to market dominance, has their own content store and their own distribution network.

Google doesn't seem to care about profit and loss, because they make their money on search revenue which subsidizes everything else.

Samsung makes a pile of parts and owns their own manufacturing.

How on earth does BlackBerry come up with a price competitive, spec competitive, profitable PlayBook products that compete in that environment?

I don't doubt that a BlackBerry 10 updated PlayBook would be a much better product than what hit the market in 2011 out of the gate, but how do they make money doing it?

Your thoughts?

[howarmat]

They can't imo. It's a dead end other than putting BlackBerry 10 on there to make people happy and follow thru with their word.

A year ago they could have made a difference but now the only people that probably gain are people that resale theirs.

Posted via CB10

[FF22]

They can't imo. It's a dead end other than putting BlackBerry 10 on there to make people happy and follow thru with there word.

A year ago they could have made a difference but now the only people that probably gain are people that resale theirs.

Posted via CB10

Sad but true.

[Gooseberry Falls]

I can't believe that if more people experienced the BB10/QNX OS that it wouldn't be preferred over android and iOS. I don't think the hardware will be the same as the current PB to meet a sub-$200-300 price point. But again, it will sell if you have the ecosystem, as evidenced by the Nexus 7. I don't think sideloading android will be enough as most people won't know how to do that very easily and they will prefer to load apps through a store. I think MS and BBRY may have given up, though, as MS just released an Office app for iPhone, and BBRY is adding BES support for iOS and android. Keeping those features proprietary should sell more devices but it doesn't seem to.

[Synerworks]

The question should not be how they can make money but how to not loose money. The fact is that Blackberry has to maintain multiple streams of BBOS developments for the phones and future devices and legacy platforms such as the Playbook. Their application portal needs to be left operational for their clients still using Playbooks, fragmented development environments leading to people moving entirely to build solutions to the new framework and abandoning the legacy platforms. No more revenue is generated from Appworld for Playbook users, including application updates are few and far between. Harmonizing to BB10 would stop the bleeding since multiple teams would not need to be maintained, additional sales revenue for applications purchased would be guaranteed since all new developments are exclusively for BB10. Sure, that Blackberry has a big problem trying to ram that fat pig BB10 into a 1GB shoe, but the work will cost less than supporting multiple legacy streams internally for the next decade. Unfortunately, Thor is dopey and only a bean-counter that hopes the Blackberry lemmings keep shoveling him more money with new devices every few months so that he can report at each quarterly financial call how much more money is in the bank instead of how he plans on stopping the bleeding from sloppy strategies. Maybe if he had been a bit more tech savvy he should have freaked after their QNX solution had bloated to more than four times the industry norm for mobile devices, now he has to live with letting it get out of control.

[VR6]

No more Playbooks please. Just improve on the existing one.

Don't be a Microsoft.

Posted via CB10

[Anjohl]

10.1 Screen, 4G stock, full android sideloading of all free apps and those verified as purchased. Netflix stock on the machine, maybe even with offline viewing? A nice Ultraviolet app, or something to make constant sales off of would help. Comixology app stock on the device as well, and allow all stock apps, even BB ones, to be uninstalled.

[joshua_sx1]

The only way for BlackBerry to make money in the future is to authorize and license other phone manufacturers to use BB10 on some of their phone models...

[Beakman]

The hardware is irrelevant. What BB needs to do is offer a complete ecosystem for their devices that emphasizes a security aspect. They should offer complete and encrypted email hosting, complete and encrypted media syncing, cloud services and so on. Dump or sandbox the android apps so they can't operate(read: datamine) and are bound to the rules of this ecosystem. I beard they did this once upon a time.

[kb5zht]

They can't imo. It's a dead end other than putting BlackBerry 10 on there to make people happy and follow thru with their word.

A year ago they could have made a difference but now the only people that probably gain are people that resale theirs.

Posted via CB10

I draw especial emphasis on "follow through with their word".

Honestly i'm not sure bb can overcome their bad rep now because (1) they really screwed a lot of loyal consumers over by selling them half a product and a package of broken promises attatched and (2) they never understood, or cared, that apps matter... Offering only 2nd and 3rd tier (kobo instead of kindle and never following through with skype) I think drove the nail in the coffin.

[Gooseberry Falls]

The only way for BlackBerry to make money in the future is to authorize and license other phone manufacturers to use BB10 on some of their phone models...

That's hard to say. MS does this and is not faring any better. BBRY is closest to AAPL as far as business model, e.g. having control over hardware and software. The big difference is that AAPL is able to develop a cult following and I don't know how to do that.

[tgzgeorge]

They can't imo. It's a dead end other than putting BlackBerry 10 on there to make people happy and follow thru with their word.

A year ago they could have made a difference but now the only people that probably gain are people that resale theirs.

Posted via CB10

Its a doa period. How can that compete with an ipad mini or nexus 7.

[tgzgeorge]

In reading through these frustrated threads about the availability of the PlayBook for sale, successor PlayBooks coming, BlackBerry 10 for PlayBook coming etc, I keep struggling with the same issue: how does BlackBerry keep the line gong and turn a profit doing it?

As much as I love the PlayBook and want to see it continue (as do many here), my sense is that BlackBerry is still struggling with why they should dump money into a line that has already lost them a bunch of money? Remember, the PlayBook shipped around 850,000 units, then they were forced to take a huge write down on the value of inventory. This was presumably done to help move through inventory in the channel by price cuts and convince the retailers to take more in.

Since then, they shipped another million and a half or so, but at heavily discounted rates. Chances are good that they ultimately lost money on every one that went out the door, though they got more revenue in than they would have if they all came back and were scrapped.

If the rumours are true, they are now 'out' of the WiFi model and only selling the LTE model through restricted, low risk channels, as needed.

So this begs the question? How can they create a newer, more modern tablet based on BlackBerry 10 and turn a profit?

It's tough! People will want newer hardware (probably quad core, at least double the ram, more storage options and a retina quality display) to go with the times.

Amazon can sell Kindle Fires for less, because they sell Amazon content through it and they have their own distribution channel in Amazon.ca

Apple can command premium pricing due to brand, gets economies of scale on parts due to market dominance, has their own content store and their own distribution network.

Google doesn't seem to care about profit and loss, because they make their money on search revenue which subsidizes everything else.

Samsung makes a pile of parts and owns their own manufacturing.

How on earth does BlackBerry come up with a price competitive, spec competitive, profitable PlayBook products that compete in that environment?

I don't doubt that a BlackBerry 10 updated PlayBook would be a much better product than what hit the market in 2011 out of the gate, but how do they make money doing it?

Your thoughts?

If bb care to not loose any more money then they will not make one, I doubt it'll be successful.

The tablet wars are over, apple will continue to dominate, even the nexus failed to dethrone it.

[Send Again]

Imo, BlackBerry needs to, first, finish and release BB10 for the playbook. Second, release a bridge app for Apple and android phones. And third, restart production of playbook on a limited run to test sales.

I'm not sure any of these are feasible given the current total ineptitude of BlackBerry.

[bambinoitaliano]

Imo, BlackBerry needs to, first, finish and release BB10 for the playbook. Second, release a bridge app for Apple and android phones. And third, restart production of playbook on a limited run to test sales.

I'm not sure any of these are feasible given the current total ineptitude of BlackBerry.

It's possible if the cryogenic technology able to preserve playbook owners indefinitely.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I draw especial emphasis on "follow through with their word".

Honestly i'm not sure bb can overcome their bad rep now because (1) they really screwed a lot of loyal consumers over by selling them half a product and a package of broken promises attatched and (2) they never understood, or cared, that apps matter... Offering only 2nd and 3rd tier (kobo instead of kindle and never following through with skype) I think drove the nail in the coffin.

Nothing new for BB users to feel that the company has "screwed" them. I remember my STORM - the device had a design flaw that was later corrected by releasing the STORM 2 in under a year from the release of the STORM 1.

Yet we keep coming back... what is the definition for insanity?

[RubberChicken76]

they really screwed a lot of loyal consumers over by selling them half a product and a package of broken promises attatched

That's the problem ... there weren't really a lot of "loyal consumers of PlayBook". There were some early adopters who paid full price for a 1.0 product. There were a lot more people who bought a cheap tablet for $200 or less with 2.0 and 2.1. I have tons of them in my social circle.

They never understood, or cared, that apps matter

If that were true, they wouldn't have ever launched a big, expensive acquisition strategy giving free PlayBooks to everybody who made an app, no matter how stupid. You could argue they weren't successful (I agree) but I completely disagree that they didn't understand or care.

[RubberChicken76]

No more Playbooks please. Just improve on the existing one.

Don't be a Microsoft.

Posted via CB10

Not really the point of this thread, which is how do they justify pouring money into a product like this?

[BallRockReaper]

I see there some possibilities.

The first one: through high quality aps (it does not matter if games or business apps)
I would really buy a full office for PlayBook or a real PDF reader. Especially if they are nativ.

The second one: through special support for users (I mean Hotline for every country or mailsupport).

[joshua_sx1]

That's hard to say. MS does this and is not faring any better. BBRY is closest to AAPL as far as business model, e.g. having control over hardware and software. The big difference is that AAPL is able to develop a cult following and I don't know how to do that.

I believe that the only thing why we and others bought Z10, Q10 or Q5 is because of its OS i.e BB10... MS, on the other hand is not "faring" because of its OS... now, imagine if the HTC One, with its current top-notch specs and high-end design, is running BB10, it will be a very competitive phone now...

If BlackBerry will authorize and license BB10 to other phone manufacturers, the most likely to happen is, its eco-system will be spread like a wild fire... which also means, that people will have more choices and it will target all level of people - not only specific level or group... and once it becomes popular, very popular indeed, more developers will support BB10 OS... and more support from third party developers means, more customers... and that would be the downfall of other OS...

Posted via Z10

[93Aero]

You know what sadly I don't think they can. Without major developers involved from the start I just don't see it happening.

Believe me I would want it to work, but these days you can't be this late to the game and expect to get any sort of foothold.

Posted via CB10

[2clever]

It's simple :

1. Admit that tablets are here to stay and that there is a market for them and that it is going to last a few years.
2. Recognize that BlackBerry has the smarts to compete with the rest and is not going to sit back and let HP and the rest have at it.
3. If you build it they will buy it.
4. BlackBerry can build a tablet that they can make money on. Figure it out.
5. Go do it - NOW!

[howarmat]

its kinda like the storm. The name is tarnished so even with newer hardware and bb10 on the future PBs they cant call it that and they would have to sell it at higher price. But its really hard to sell at higher prices now with really good tabs on the low end.

[blueberrymerry]

The cheap-as-chips sub-100 USD Android tablets are decent for home use and if one breaks, you just buy another one For business, a Nexus 7 or an iPad Mini make more sense than a PB if you're looking for a larger variety of work apps. For a bit more money, a stylus-equipped tablet like a Galaxy Note 8" is good.

So where does that leave the PB? If BBRY can get some heavyweight business functionality in it like a full office suite, network logon, full VPN support and full USB support, then it can position a future PB as a pocket computer for the consummate business traveler... otherwise BBRY can keep dreaming about mobile computing while the company burns to the ground.

[Gooseberry Falls]

I believe that the only thing why we and others bought Z10, Q10 or Q5 is because of its OS i.e BB10... MS, on the other hand is not "faring" because of its OS... now, imagine if the HTC One, with its current top-notch specs and high-end design, is running BB10, it will be a very competitive phone now...

If BlackBerry will authorize and license BB10 to other phone manufacturers, the most likely to happen is, its eco-system will be spread like a wild fire... which also means, that people will have more choices and it will target all level of people - not only specific level or group... and once it becomes popular, very popular indeed, more developers will support BB10 OS... and more support from third party developers means, more customers... and that would be the downfall of other OS...

Posted via Z10

I guess BBRY was pretty popular at one time and could get that way again. Maybe hard to believe, but WP8 OS and "modern"/Metro live tile interface is in third place (still paltry 2-3%) so some people have to like it. It still suffers from poor development support and lack of big name apps. But I agree, if BB10 gets in the hands of more people, it could take off.