03-23-13 07:29 AM
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  1. victorshikhman's Avatar
    PLEASE NOTE: This thread is NOT about questioning whether some iteration of OS10 will run smoothly on Playbook. It IS about trying to figure out if the RAM (and possibly the CPU) on the original Playbook Wifi are upgradeable.

    If you've been following all the new Playbook rumors, you've likely concluded that while we Playbook owners will probably get some form of OS10 update, it's not going to be as full featured as we may have liked, given the current device's 1gb RAM limitations. Bummer.

    However, I haven't heard anyone mention whether it's possible to actually upgrade that RAM on the Playbook itself, and thus squeeze much more performance and life out of this otherwise very capable system. This would seem to be a reasonable thing to do, as the Playbook disassembles fairly easily... unless the RAM itself is soldered into the motherboard (I'm not sure if it is).

    Is this doable? I'd like to get some feedback from people much more technically proficient at playing with hardware than I am.

    Last edited by victorshikhman; 03-19-13 at 07:37 PM. Reason: added intro note to focus the thread
    seemsixty7, axllebeer and Sallem like this.
    03-19-13 03:01 PM
  2. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    BB10 ran on the Dev devices quite well with only 1GB of RAM
    Barracuda7772, Mecca EL and CDM76 like this.
    03-19-13 03:13 PM
  3. mkelley65's Avatar
    Dev Alphas have 1GB of ram and handle BB10 well. How is this a limitation for the PlayBook?
    V4Victory_555 likes this.
    03-19-13 03:13 PM
  4. victorshikhman's Avatar
    I think the "1gb was fine for DevAlpha" argument is a diversion from the "could we do it" question. Yes, maybe it's enough, but let's be honest - we're not going to get the same performance with 1gb that we can with 2gb, even with OS optimization for Playbook. As Kevin wrote a while back:

    "it's clear that 1GB of RAM is not enough to power BlackBerry 10" and "with a slower processor, I fear full-out BlackBerry 10 on the PlayBook would not run smooth at all"
    Source: How I'd like to see BlackBerry 10 come to the BlackBerry PlayBook | CrackBerry.com

    Think about it from an app perspective. A year from now, when there are hundreds of great, RAM-hogging apps from developers built for the Playbook 2, do we Playbook 1 owners want to have the option to upgrade our RAM to take advantage of those applications to their fullest? I vote yes. My playbook is only a year old, and I'd like it to remain a relevant piece of hardware for at least three years more or longer. If we can upgrade the RAM, why not?

    So, with that out of the way... is it possible?

    Here's the motherboard from the Playbook. It's got Elpida B8064B2PB-8D-F 1GB DRAM, but I'm not sure if the RAM is integrated with the processor. Is this swap-and-play upgradeable?
    BlackBerry PlayBook Teardown - iFixit

    Upgrading Playbook's RAM for OS10?-playbook-motherboard.jpg
    03-19-13 03:32 PM
  5. AWB70's Avatar
    I fear if the thing can be upgraded by taking it to bits that would not be the route BlackBerry would want to go down. I can hear the out cry now! More sensible thing would be to scale down the os to make if something like you see on the phone but not as ram hungry. A lot of the hub functions could be done away with for a start. To be fair I don't think os2 feels that far away from os10 as it is. In fact I got used for my z10 quicker through using my play book. BlackBerry won't be doing both I guess, one os for those handy with a screwdriver and one for those that aren't.
    I would be a happy bunny if they just gave the current os a tweak and got all the full functions of bridge back for the z10.

    Posted via CB10
    mhmediaonline likes this.
    03-19-13 04:49 PM
  6. diegonei's Avatar
    Considering that the PlayBook can run lots of apps at once and BB10 locks at 8 at a time, 1gb is probably just fine.

    Also, WiFi PBs won't need some of the code, that alone should lighten up he OS load.

    But time will tell. If any of you have a spare PB and enough engineering skills, by all means, cracks it open and let us know.
    03-19-13 04:58 PM
  7. victorshikhman's Avatar
    I don't understand the resistance to modding. When your laptop/desktop computer has outdated specs, you can upgrade the ram, processor, hd, sometimes even the screen. As a matter of principle, I don't see much validity in this resistance to upgrading the specs, if it's doable and cheap. If it can be modded, and reasonable cheaply, then why not do it?

    I have no doubt that Blackberry would prefer that we spend another $300-500 on a brand new Playbook. But CAN it be upgraded, for those of us who would like to do so?
    03-19-13 05:01 PM
  8. AWB70's Avatar
    I guess it could be but it's whether blackberry would provide any support for something that has been modded. Of course they would want you to buy the new PlayBook instead, it might not be the only thing they change if a new one came out. It might also need a bigger cpu.

    Posted via CB10
    03-19-13 05:10 PM
  9. rupam95's Avatar
    It's not about RAM, it's more about how much coding for the a BB10 version of Playbook will be. If BB can work to slim down the current BB10 coding and remove unnecessary functions, then 1GB will be a surplus.
    Last edited by rupam95; 03-19-13 at 05:11 PM. Reason: Do you mind?
    03-19-13 05:10 PM
  10. elmariocarlos's Avatar
    If the RAM is not integrated and could just be "pulled out" it would be a good option, plus all the services fees you generate for the certified repair shops. =)
    Enyigma likes this.
    03-19-13 05:16 PM
  11. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    If you've been following all the new Playbook rumors, you've likely concluded that while we Playbook owners will probably get some form of OS10 update, it's not going to be as full featured as we may have liked, given the current device's 1gb RAM limitations. Bummer.
    OMG - will people stop spewing this!!!!!

    Saying "The PlayBook can't run BlackBerry 10 because it only has 1 GB of RAM" is as ridiculous as declaring that iOS 6 needs 1 GB of RAM to run because it launched beside the iPhone 5.

    No one here knows what the minimum memory requirements are for BlackBerry 10 and don't assume BlackBerry 10 cannot be optimized further to run on 1 GB devices. In fact, I'd argue BlackBerry had to think about this and/or had to figure it out. Why? Not because of PlayBook but
    because they probably need a low cost BlackBerry 10 Curve ...

    Can we please stop making these assumptions that 2 GB is the minimum memory requirement????!!!!!!!

    It will probably run decently, like iOS 6 does on my iPhone 4S and my GFs iPhone 4. Both slower than iPhone 5, but perfectly useable.

    Sorry,but these threads are really cheesing me off. Let's wait till we see the damn thing first!

    That is, unless someone has internal RIM docs that says, "minimum system requirements = 2 GB"
    03-19-13 05:21 PM
  12. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    As Kevin wrote a while back:

    "it's clear that 1GB of RAM is not enough to power BlackBerry 10" and "with a slower processor, I fear full-out BlackBerry 10 on the PlayBook would not run smooth at all"
    With all due respect to Kevin (who has much knowledge), he's not a hardware or software engineer. Let's leave it to the people who are hardware and software engineers to do their jobs and then decide.

    Please and thank you!
    just_luc and diegonei like this.
    03-19-13 05:23 PM
  13. victorshikhman's Avatar
    You make a good point, but that's not really why I created the thread. I just want to know if the RAM is upgradeable. Can we agree that, on its own, this is an interesting question, regardless of whether OS10 needs it? There's no need to be defensive about the Playbook's current specs and its ability to run OS10. It's two year old technology - probably 2.5 years by the time we get OS10 - and the extra RAM is not going to hurt. If the RAM is swapable and cheap, why not?

    I've emailed Elpida to find out if they have a higher capacity compatible DRAM chip. The DRAM might be integrated with the Texas Instruments processor, so I emailed TI as well, just in case. Who knows, maybe we could upgrade the RAM and processor at the same time. Will post if I get a response from anyone.
    03-19-13 05:40 PM
  14. imz's Avatar
    OMG - will people stop spewing this!!!!!

    Saying "The PlayBook can't run BlackBerry 10 because it only has 1 GB of RAM" is as ridiculous as declaring that iOS 6 needs 1 GB of RAM to run because it launched beside the iPhone 5.

    No one here knows what the minimum memory requirements are for BlackBerry 10 and don't assume BlackBerry 10 cannot be optimized further to run on 1 GB devices.
    <start troll>

    The PlayBook camera won't support Time Shift because it's only got 5mb camera, and the z10 is 8mb.

    <end troll>

    Posted via CB10
    RubberChicken76 likes this.
    03-19-13 05:46 PM
  15. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    I don't think anyone is withholding the info, we just don't know. Comparing a modular system like Windows to an SoC setup doesn't really help since they are different designs. There are so many potential stumbling points. Here's some of the questions that come to mind.

    Can the OS recognize more ram if added? Are there any OS modifications required to be able to access the extra ram? Where is the component to be replaced and how is it attached? Is there a suitable replacement that will fit in the available space? Is the connector and pinouts the same? Can it be replaced without impacting any nearby components? Can the upgraded memory module be purchased in single units or small amounts? Do any other components require upgrading as well to accommodate the increased ram? Is the SoC capable of handling 2gb? If BlackBerry is going to provide a scaled down version of BB10 for PlayBook, where do you plan on getting the more robust version that your modified PlayBook is going to run?

    That's just off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many others. I will be waiting to see what those companies say, if they respond at all. I don't think they normally deal with direct consumer sales.

    Who is willing to risk their current PlayBook in the hopes of not having to buy another one later on? Not me...
    diegonei and victorshikhman like this.
    03-19-13 06:23 PM
  16. imz's Avatar
    Basically... what's happening is, Blackberry are testing a new mobile computing concept on the PlayBook which is to emulate desktops in the sense that we have 1GB of RAM, and they will allow for the ability to create a page file (like in Windows) that utilises the built in FREE storage as virtual RAM.

    ^ rumour
    - source: my mind

    Posted via CB10
    03-19-13 06:50 PM
  17. Innovatology's Avatar
    The reason 1GB RAM was deemed insufficient is probably because of BlackBerry Flow and the Invocation Framework. In BB10, apps are more integrated with each-other. For instance, when you open a PDF from the Hub, the PDF app is started and part of it is displayed. It even stays running for a while after the PDF is closed, in case you want to open another PDF. With 1GB of RAM this would quickly become a problem.

    The Dev Alpha has 1GB of RAM, and it happily runs BB10 as long as you don't open too many apps. Especially HTML5 (WebWorks) apps seem to be memory-hungry, as they need at least one instance of the browser engine to run.
    03-19-13 07:11 PM
  18. Bluenoser63's Avatar
    If you've been following all the new Playbook rumors, you've likely concluded that while we Playbook owners will probably get some form of OS10 update, it's not going to be as full featured as we may have liked, given the current device's 1gb RAM limitations. Bummer.

    However, I haven't heard anyone mention whether it's possible to actually upgrade that RAM on the Playbook itself, and thus squeeze much more performance and life out of this otherwise very capable system. This would seem to be a reasonable thing to do, as the Playbook disassembles fairly easily... unless the RAM itself is soldered into the motherboard (I'm not sure if it is).

    Is this doable? I'd like to get some feedback from people much more technically proficient at playing with hardware than I am.

    The Dev Alpha device running BB10 runs just fine and I still play Angry Birds Star Wars on it and I don't see any difference when I run it on my Z10. Please top thinking that BB10 won't run fine on the Playbook. Otherwise, BB wouldn't be working on making it happen.
    03-19-13 07:22 PM
  19. BB_Bmore's Avatar
    There are issues with the 1 gig of ram but I'm sure that will be worked out and won't be a problem for PLAYBOOK owners when all is said and done.

    Sent from  using Tapatalk
    Attached Thumbnails Upgrading Playbook's RAM for OS10?-tapaupload0.jpg   Upgrading Playbook's RAM for OS10?-tapaupload1.jpg  
    03-19-13 07:36 PM
  20. BB_Bmore's Avatar
    <start troll>

    The PlayBook camera won't support Time Shift because it's only got 5mb camera, and the z10 is 8mb.

    <end troll>

    Posted via CB10
    This just isn't true. I'm sure I read somewhere that time shift feature only works when Z10 camera is shooting at 5MP - it doesn't work on 8. Also if I remember correctly someone had the time shift camera working on a PLAYBOOK back when folks were loading BlackBerry10 onto PLAYBOOK only to find out it was very crippled and just not worth doing.

    Sent from  using Tapatalk
    03-19-13 07:46 PM
  21. seemsixty7's Avatar
    I'm all for this effort as well. I see the playbook as a very capable devie with many functions. One of the things I love about my PC or laptop is the ability to expand it when I want too. Granted the Developers at RIM enjoy the development effort of knowing the system they are developing for and the consistency, but hey it sure can't hurt to ask. I look forwward to your responses on the RAM.
    03-19-13 07:46 PM
  22. CBCListener's Avatar
    You know, I wouldn't mind buying a new PlayBook if it turns out that to have BB10 on it requires the hardware upgrade. That doesn't mean that my current (two) PlayBooks won't still have a function...although they may be relegated to staying beside my bedside (for Today's Alarm Clock) and as a Kindle/Kobo reader, and...I'll figure it out.
    03-19-13 07:58 PM
  23. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    This just isn't true. I'm sure I read somewhere that time shift feature only works when Z10 camera is shooting at 5MP - it doesn't work on 8. Also if I remember correctly someone had the time shift camera working on a PLAYBOOK back when folks were loading BlackBerry10 onto PLAYBOOK only to find out it was very crippled and just not worth doing.

    Sent from  using Tapatalk
    If I'm not mistaken, the <start troll> and <end troll> remarks denote sarcasm in between.
    03-19-13 09:12 PM
  24. BB_Bmore's Avatar
    If I'm not mistaken, the <start troll> and <end troll> remarks denote sarcasm in between.
    Hmmmm, If I'm not mistaken you -MIGHT-be on to something here...

    Sent from  using Tapatalk
    03-19-13 09:18 PM
  25. lcjr's Avatar
    The OP was asking if upgrading is possible or not, yet most concentrated on whether BB10 is right for the Playbook. Why not just answer his question if you know the answer without giving other opinions?
    CDM76 and millwright40 like this.
    03-19-13 10:35 PM
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