08-17-12 03:26 PM
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  1. Chrysalis1156's Avatar
    That's interesting because some people can backup appdata & I could as well until recently. I surrender...
    01-05-12 03:37 PM
  2. FF22's Avatar
    "By Design" or "by poor design?"

    I think folks got similar replies ages ago. It was being worked on - ha!

    Peter - well, the app for me that is problematic has, if I recall, something like 20,000 files. But as noted, it appears to backup UNTIL used. Then it either adds the "file that broke the camel's back" or does some other arcane circuit-blowing nonsense. I finally succumbed and downloaded their update where the install file went from 400mb to 900mb. They definitely changed the Splash Screen but I don't see anything else. When opening initially it wants to fill its cache but accepting/denying does not help as it then will break or appears that IT breaks DM backup.

    Got a link to the official forum discussion on this matter? But if "by design" then they either don't care at the moment or....
    01-05-12 04:34 PM
  3. doxa sub750T's Avatar
    I thought that I'd share with you the response I just received from BB Customer Support on the backup issue:

    "Thank you for contacting BlackBerry Technical Support. We are pleased to assist you.
    Yes it is true, you can't backup application data at this time. This is something they are working on for future software updates, but as of right now, it is by design. For now, if you do ever need to wipe your PlayBook and sign in to App World again, your list of application are automatically saved in "My World" within BlackBerry App World, no matter which PlayBook you sign in to."

    So RIM is fully aware of the problem.....indeed, "as of right now, it is by design"!
    I guess I will need to do a restore using file from my current PB onto the new one I should receive within a day or two. I had never looked thoroughly whether a complete restoring is feasible and/or a good idea. But I certainly will try. Otherwise, why doing a back up!
    01-05-12 04:36 PM
  4. ultra07's Avatar
    I do not have Recipe Box on my Playbook, but do have all 3 Angry Birds.
    01-06-12 08:07 AM
  5. alnamvet68's Avatar
    Speaking of Recipe Box, going to App World on my PB, I go to Apps, then Health & Wellness, then to Health & Diet, and then check for ALL and or FREE, and guess what, it's not shown in the Playbook as an available app. Going to App World via my laptop, the app is seen as available for free for Playbook, but when I tried to download it to the PC, I get a message that there's an error of sorts. I'm guessing the app was pulled, but the App World website has not been updated, yet going to App World using the PB does not show Recipe Box as an available app.

    So several here are correct in that Recipe Box may be the culprit. BTW, I performed a full backup this AM and had no problems, so my Cooklet app is good to go.
    Last edited by alnamvet68; 01-06-12 at 08:31 AM.
    01-06-12 08:26 AM
  6. alnamvet68's Avatar
    Oh, and don't forget to rate the thread....some good investigative techniques were used and I believe you all nailed down the root cause of your backup problems.
    01-06-12 08:33 AM
  7. Chrysalis1156's Avatar
    I do not have Recipe Box on my Playbook, but do have all 3 Angry Birds.
    I'm in the same boat. Never had Recipe Box, used to be able to backup AppData, and now I can't. We don't know what the exact cause is. Hopefully someone will figure it out and RIM will fix it. I've given up clicking the button for now. I'm just waiting for OS2...
    01-06-12 10:17 AM
  8. Rickster1's Avatar
    Just went through this process yesterday. I had not done a backup since Dec 6 and had added several larger video files as well as music and books. I was aware some were having BU issues. I tried several times, no luck(no Recipe box app for me). called PB support and spent over an hour on the phone as we tried to BU. Tried an upgrade to DTM, there was a small update that wasn't being shown when I tried so had to go to update website to do it manually. Didn't help. When I added files, I did it via wireless transfer and tech thought this was a bad way to do so. He thought that there was too much possibility of errors via wireless transfer. End result, BU via copy paste from PB to folder on my laptop. This took a long time. Then a security wipe and a re-load of files, again, took over an hour to do. Then re-loaded apps. All apps prompted me to re-install, once I found them, all except Magellan Compass. It is prompting me to purchase again. So, two issues for me, one the BU. Tech indicated larger files are still giving problems for backup. This needs to be dealt with and it would be nice to have a record of apps loaded and paid for via app world versus e-mail confirmation. Is there any way to do this? So, I learnt that if BU doesn't work, need to do it manually. Tiime consuming but not sure if it would be much quicker if it was being done via DTM. Anyways, growing pains I guess, not a showstopper but we need a fix with this.
    01-06-12 11:05 AM
  9. Chrysalis1156's Avatar
    Thanks for posting that Rickster1. I can backup my media manually (which amazingly I am also able to do thru DTM and I have several movies & quite a bit of music) but I don't think AppData can be backed up manually. Definitely something they need to address. Frustrating to say the least.

    Re. Magellan Compass I'd probably click on the support link in AppWorld and contact the developer and explain your situation. Hope you get it worked out.
    Last edited by Chrysalis1156; 01-06-12 at 11:34 AM.
    01-06-12 11:30 AM
  10. FF22's Avatar
    I contacted Appworld support when I could not upgrade an app and I had to delete the original app. They credited me once they had the purchase info from that email confirmation. So Magellan probably can't help:

    appworldbilling@rim.com

    I am not sure if there is a phone number for them.
    01-06-12 11:58 AM
  11. Chrysalis1156's Avatar
    That's good to know F2. I'm having a problem with a game that failed in an update (error 0008) so I deleted & now AppWorld keeps trying to reinstall the "bad" update. I'll try that as well.

    EDIT: Wrote them an email & attached my purchase info. Within 10 minutes I got a confirmation email saying my issue had been logged so YAY! Maybe I'll get resolution to this problem. Just a little thing but annoying all the same. Thanks!!
    Last edited by Chrysalis1156; 01-06-12 at 02:12 PM.
    01-06-12 01:07 PM
  12. FF22's Avatar
    Some aspects of Rim and service are definitely run pretty well. I can't recall if they called me or I called them but I actually spoke with someone. I should check my email chain.

    My issue and need to contact was the palpay account is one email, my bbid was another and I used a 3rd to initiate contact with them!!!!
    01-06-12 03:13 PM
  13. peter9477's Avatar
    Sweet! Got word that the devs have tentatively concluded it may have something to do with how many files an app has installed. That would probably mean either apps which include many files, which I suspect Recipe Box does (did), or apps which download and/or cache many files, which those maps certainly do, could prevent backup.

    Anyone who still has the same problem: consider which of your remaining apps may have many many files, like thousands, installed. If it's just add-on data, like a cache, try flushing it if the devs gave you the option. If it's pre-installed, no choice but to uninstall and try it out (see earlier notes about having to restart and/or wait some unknown period of time before re-trying the backup if you do that).

    F2, this seems to cover the difference in behaviour between Recipe Box, where I'm sure the files are included, and the maps where the problem may not be triggered until it downloads and caches a bunch of tiles. (Or possibly, and I wouldn't put it past those guys, it bundles a zillion tiles but on first run copies them all to a writable folder, doubling the disk space required for the app with no benefit to you!)
    01-06-12 04:37 PM
  14. FF22's Avatar
    Thanks for the followup, Peter.

    If I interpret the info from my dissection of the map app's backup file (from DM), then there are over 20,000 files. But I don't really know what I'll call a BACKUP Package contains. Is it the files necessary to install the app? Or is it the resulting INSTALLED package - that occurs after it is installed?

    And I gather rooting would be the only way to know what is installed and where all of it is installed? This is where I do NOT like closed boxed systems. There is no way for me to understand what's what on my pb. It is kind of like the mystery of the Windows' Registry and even there I can inspect it. So you might be suggesting that while the install has maybe 20,000 files, it could even be doubling that to 40,000 files - I know you are merely speculating.

    I guess I could write them and ask but I tend to doubt they will admit there are any issues.

    My second guess is to take my personal forensic evidence and lay it on Rim and what they think!!!
    01-06-12 05:53 PM
  15. dejanh's Avatar
    I'd like to add myself to the pool of users with the same problem. I have now gone through two 32GB PlayBooks all with the same result. I will be getting a 64GB tonight and loading my stuff on it. I expect the same problem. I do not have the Recipe Box app, but I do have the offline maps and Machinarium.

    As an added comment, I would like to point out that there is no way that the apps themselves are at fault for this. Something is seriously buggered either on the DM side or on the PB OS side, or both. There is no sense in why a full backup scheme should even care how many files are stored...you could always resort to a bit-by-bit backup, in essence like a disk clone.
    Last edited by dejanh; 01-06-12 at 06:20 PM.
    01-06-12 06:10 PM
  16. peter9477's Avatar
    If I interpret the info from my dissection of the map app's backup file (from DM), then there are over 20,000 files. But I don't really know what I'll call a BACKUP Package contains. Is it the files necessary to install the app? Or is it the resulting INSTALLED package - that occurs after it is installed?
    The "App Backup" portion includes everything required to install the app (everything under its own folder under /apps) and all data in its sandbox folder. Basically all the code, bundled assets and other data, and all the data it generates or downloads or caches etc.

    If you're in contact with RIM about that make sure they know that the offline maps apps can cause the problem too. Who knows, maybe they're having trouble identifying other apps which trigger it.

    Either rooting or, for now, dissecting your backup (if you could back up) would let you see what's included in the app or its data. Since you can't back up with that installed, I would think only rooting will work in this case... that's probably the reason nobody found this earlier.
    01-06-12 06:18 PM
  17. dejanh's Avatar
    The "App Backup" portion includes everything required to install the app (everything under its own folder under /apps) and all data in its sandbox folder. Basically all the code, bundled assets and other data, and all the data it generates or downloads or caches etc.

    If you're in contact with RIM about that make sure they know that the offline maps apps can cause the problem too. Who knows, maybe they're having trouble identifying other apps which trigger it.

    Either rooting or, for now, dissecting your backup (if you could back up) would let you see what's included in the app or its data. Since you can't back up with that installed, I would think only rooting will work in this case... that's probably the reason nobody found this earlier.
    By the way, after numerous tries I did manage to back up my apps with the offline maps installed. I had many, many failures before it backed up, then finally it did, and then it started failing again. I literally kept retrying over and over and over again. If you want, I can supply you with the backup that contains offline maps.

    I also want to point out that no matter what I was unable to back up on my desktop system. However, two laptops I worked with were able to back up after many retries.
    01-06-12 06:24 PM
  18. Chrysalis1156's Avatar
    OMG! Thanks dejanh for posting that. Just tried the repeated attempts to backup on my laptop and after 6 fails in a row (and many failed attempts over the last several days), I finally got a complete backup of my 1.18GB of AppData. I deleted nothing nor changed anything. Just kept clicking backup. Now I can take a breather. Yay!
    01-06-12 07:05 PM
  19. dejanh's Avatar
    OMG! Thanks dejanh for posting that. Just tried the repeated attempts to backup on my laptop and after 6 fails in a row (and many failed attempts over the last several days), I finally got a complete backup of my 1.18GB of AppData. I deleted nothing nor changed anything. Just kept clicking backup. Now I can take a breather. Yay!
    'tis why I'm saying that something's messed up with DM/PlayBook OS/both and NOT the apps Any way you look at it the backup "mechanism" is not working correctly.
    01-06-12 07:07 PM
  20. peter9477's Avatar
    Agreed, this is absolutely not going to turn out to be the app developers' fault. It's all on RIM.

    By the way, good info about how being extra persistent may get it to work. I didn't mention in my comment earlier, but the "many files" thing isn't thought to be directly the issue, but rather a timeout of the Desktop Manager program resulting from the PB side of the backup process taking too long to respond at one point, as a result of there being so many files. This all fits...
    01-06-12 07:35 PM
  21. FF22's Avatar
    I'd like to add myself to the pool of users with the same problem. I have now gone through two 32GB PlayBooks all with the same result. I will be getting a 64GB tonight and loading my stuff on it. I expect the same problem. I do not have the Recipe Box app, but I do have the offline maps and Machinarium.

    As an added comment, I would like to point out that there is no way that the apps themselves are at fault for this. Something is seriously buggered either on the DM side or on the PB OS side, or both. There is no sense in why a full backup scheme should even care how many files are stored...you could always resort to a bit-by-bit backup, in essence like a disk clone.
    While I can't get into how the pb or dm handle the files/storage/indexing, I'd have to agree that it is a rim problem. It should prevent stuff like this happening. Now, I will accept that they were not aware of this issue but they have been aware for some time that the backup was not working for a number of users. It would seem that they should have sufficient info to try getting a resolution.

    I am pretty certain the maps-on-device is a predictive aspect if not actually a culprit - why, well, that I don't know. But I've had it on and off the device and even removed the newer, bigger version of France and restored the older, smaller. I can backup until I open and use the app.

    But it is up to rim to solve this.

    (I have a question for Peter.....)
    01-06-12 07:57 PM
  22. FF22's Avatar
    The "App Backup" portion includes everything required to install the app (everything under its own folder under /apps) and all data in its sandbox folder. Basically all the code, bundled assets and other data, and all the data it generates or downloads or caches etc.

    If you're in contact with RIM about that make sure they know that the offline maps apps can cause the problem too. Who knows, maybe they're having trouble identifying other apps which trigger it.

    Either rooting or, for now, dissecting your backup (if you could back up) would let you see what's included in the app or its data. Since you can't back up with that installed, I would think only rooting will work in this case... that's probably the reason nobody found this earlier.
    I think you have answered my question. But I'll ask a bit more. When I back up just SETTINGS, what is being backed up? Not, say, the data an app uses? I will use a non-implicated app - so when I backup Settings, it would not be backing up, say a kobo book? Because if it really is only the INSTALL Package, then there really is no reason to backup apps as they can be reinstalled from appworld (other than the case where an app has been withdrawn or the upgrade now costs more money and I/you don't want to spend that - I notice the typing app just went from free to something).

    And the backup, of say the map-on-device is backing up the files necessary to reinstall it as well as the state it was in (files, settings, whatever) when it was backed up (ignoring the fact that this app, cannot be backed up after run?).

    Is there a contact for Rim or just take it to their forum?

    I have this, but frankly, I am not going to pay to report this issue:

    Rim Support
    Tel:
    Canada Toll Free: 1-877-644-8405
    United States Toll Free: 1-877-644-8410
    Puerto Rico Toll Free: 1-855-651-4936
    Email: playbooksupport@blackberry.com
    Last edited by F2; 01-06-12 at 08:08 PM.
    01-06-12 08:04 PM
  23. peter9477's Avatar
    I think you have answered my question. But I'll ask a bit more. When I back up just SETTINGS, what is being backed up? Not, say, the data an app uses? I will use a non-implicated app - so when I backup Settings, it would not be backing up, say a kobo book?

    And the backup, of say the map-on-device is backing up the files necessary to reinstall it as well as the state it was in (files, settings, whatever) when it was backed up (ignoring the fact that this app, cannot be backed up after run?).
    The Media backup does all the "shared" folders, and I believe nothing else.

    The Apps backup does all the app code and their own "sandbox" data, and not much or even nothing else. May include a small bit of "metadata" for the permissions you granted or denied them... I can check one of my backups if you need more detail.

    The Settings backup is all the system settings, and probably nothing else.

    Is there a contact for Rim or just take it to their forum?
    Oh, don't bother with that. I'll pass the info along. I got the impression from an earlier post that you were actually in email contact with them about this or something. I probably misunderstood. I'll make sure the info is known... (There's no contact per se, other than the forums, but I know a couple of people and can get the odd tidbit passed along when it's important.)
    01-06-12 08:10 PM
  24. FF22's Avatar
    Thanks, Peter.

    I tried logging in to their forum and they do not recognize my email address. I know I've posted there. I tried finding my post - it had to do with the "defective" rapid charger but when I looked I found not find the posting. What's my userID???
    01-06-12 10:25 PM
  25. dejanh's Avatar
    Thanks Peter. I did a test now just to see what happens when I wipe the cache of the offline-maps and I am doing a 3.2GB backup as we speak without issues. I think as you said before it is probably a timeout of some sort that happens when a large number of small files are encountered. The system probably cannot index them successfully prior to the backup causing a timeout or a failed index or something of that sort. Anyway, it looks like you will pass the info along and RIM is getting a handle on it. This issue has probably been the most negative experience with the PB to date. Everything else has been working pretty good.
    peter9477 likes this.
    01-06-12 11:08 PM
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