01-15-12 03:04 PM
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  1. meltbox360's Avatar
    The problem with that is inertia. Inertia, budgets, and laziness are such that if someone hadn't drawn a line, nothing would have changed. Now publishers are looking at the numbers and getting off their rear ends to make cleaner more efficient sites for mobile users without Flash. YouTube alone would never have done it without Apple forcing the issue by refusing to accept it anymore.



    When I worked at Netscape, the vast majority of our crash logs from all users (which were primarily Windows) were due to Flash bringing down the browser. Friends of mine on the IE team (the old Spyglass guys) say the same is true for IE as well.

    So you've never noticed your laptop fans come on when you are using a Flash site or playing a Flash game?
    :P
    Must I educate you? Look, Flash has been shown over and over to be a higher performance api than html5 for doing THE SAME THING. I'm not saying it should not be replaced but I am saying that WHEN THE FANS SPIN UP ITS BECAUSE THE STUFF ON THE SCREEN THAT MOVES IS RESOURCE INTENSIVE. Html5 in fact should be less efficient due to the fact that it is interpreted. Flash is bytecode (not actually sure on this) and so it should be fairly optimized.

    There was an argument earlier about flash crashing and also developers coding flash apps that are terrible.

    First off, C coders can write terrible code too so we should stop using C right?
    Second, I have heard many claims of flash being unstable but I have personally come across very few issues with flash. If you come across issues with flash it is usually the specific apps fault or the system has other problems with it. Macs however were neglected a little by adobe however I do remember reading that Apple refused to open up API's that would have allowed hardware accelerated flash hence hardware accelerated video. Apple once again banned something useful from their platform for some unknown reason.

    Look Flash is not good but bashing it like you do it just stupid. I personally absolutely hate some of Adobe's software but they have improved Flash a great deal and html5 will always be a step behind.

    Final note. Prime example why html5 is not quite so universal right now is video codecs. Either convince google to use a video codec available to everyone with no licensing body. If you can move youtube to such a codec then html5 can begin to replace aspects of flash.

    If I was overly critical somewhere or offended you I did not mean to just threw some stuff out there that went through my head while reading the thread.
    Last edited by Meltbox360; 01-11-12 at 07:34 PM.
    01-11-12 07:19 PM
  2. si_chindo's Avatar
    bah haters gonna hate...me i am glad to have flash and have the pb ready for html 5. meh...haters gonna hate

    bb + pb is a great combo for me...not one to really care about what ppl say anyways esp if i feel good about the choice i am making.
    Delirious D likes this.
    01-11-12 07:25 PM
  3. app_Developer's Avatar
    Must I educate you?
    Ok, confess. You work at RIM and wrote the "Amateur Hour is Over" line, didn't you?

    Look, Flash has been shown over and over to be a higher performance api than html5 for doing THE SAME THING.
    Really? Can you show me where this has been proven?

    I'm not saying it should not be replaced but I am saying that WHEN THE FANS SPIN UP ITS BECAUSE THE STUFF ON THE SCREEN THAT MOVES IS RESOURCE INTENSIVE.
    You can't be serious. On modern computers, you can "make things move" without spinning the fans up. The Flash vm is extraordinarily inefficient because of decisions taken even before Adobe bought it. Adobe hasn't fixed it, because they can't in a way that would maintain binary compatibility. That's the crux of the issue. Adobe has talked and bluffed around that issue for years, but it's always been the primary issue.

    Html5 in fact should be less efficient due to the fact that it is interpreted. Flash is bytecode (not actually sure on this) and so it should be fairly optimized.
    That would be true, if people hadn't invented things like V8 already. (Flash bytecode is not native, btw.) the PB's implementation of javascript is not yet quite as fast as Apple's, but it's not far behind. They can catch up within a few months I would think.

    There was an argument earlier about flash crashing and also developers coding flash apps that are terrible.

    First off, C coders can write terrible code too so we should stop using C right?
    We're comparing a language to a vm and set of APIs? huh?

    Second, I have heard many claims of flash being unstable but I have personally come across very few issues with flash. If you come across issues with flash it is usually the specific apps fault or the system has other problems with it.
    Again, I worked on a browser. I saw hundreds of thousands of crash reports while I was there. It's not anecdotal for me. I know the pain that Flash caused my team and our colleagues on other browser teams.

    Macs however were neglected a little by adobe however I do remember reading that Apple refused to open up API's that would have allowed hardware accelerated flash hence hardware accelerated video. Apple once again banned something useful from their platform for some unknown reason.
    The reason wasn't unknown at all. Apple and the WebKit team wanted Flash gone. As did the other browser teams. HTML5 was way too slow in development, but now that there are hundreds of millions of devices that just flat out can't run Flash, HTML5 is moving much faster now. Funny how that works. Sometimes it just takes a hammer. I don't always what Apple does, but on this point they did us all a huge favor in a way that the grassroots campaigns never could have.

    Look Flash is not good but bashing it like you do it just stupid. I personally absolutely hate some of Adobe's software but they have improved Flash a great deal and html5 will always be a step behind.
    Wait, Flash is not good? Why do you say that now?

    And why would HTML5 always be behind? What is the technical reason for that? It's not like Flash is zipping ARM code over the wire.

    Final note. Prime example why html5 is not quite so universal right now is video codecs. Either convince google to use a video codec available to everyone with no licensing body. If you can move youtube to such a codec then html5 can begin to replace aspects of flash.
    Google transcoded much of YouTube already to h.264. You don't like that choice because that codec it isn't open enough. I can understand that. But then if you're so adamant about the codec being totally open, why on earth would you support Flash which is not open either? That seems rather inconsistent, don't you think?
    Last edited by app_Developer; 01-11-12 at 08:04 PM.
    01-11-12 07:44 PM
  4. leejayh's Avatar
    but not everything is html5 yet. so somethings cant be viewed on their web like it is on ours.

    im just saying. os 2 comes and its a new excuse as to why we arent a "real" tablet yet.

    smh i get knocked for being the only one in my circle with bb. i stand by my bb. and my pb!

    i guess cause i have a blackberry, stock calendar and email complaints just seem ********. same with apps. if i was into apps from the beginning i wouldnt have bothered with bb from the geko.
    its just my opinion.
    I am the only in my circle who loves bb as well. All have moved on. Most consumers want an entertainment device - games, media, etc. i am a reader and a writer first. And movies. The bb does everything i want. And, I am not impressed with fancy animations. So what. Bbmm!
    Delirious D likes this.
    01-11-12 07:58 PM
  5. Serkle K's Avatar
    I thought this thread was about a misleading post about booth size at CES??
    diegonei likes this.
    01-11-12 08:33 PM
  6. Delirious D's Avatar
    I have only seen his posts in this thread and not elsewhere but in this thread no where does he say RIM or the PB suck. He does suggest it may not be the best business strategy to brag up a dieing technology but that is a far cry from saying they/it sucks and certainly not trolling as you suggested very early on.

    Me thinks you are reading things that are not actually there.
    its a BLACKBERRY LOVING FORUM SO OFCOURSE I CAN GO AND BRAG ABOUT HOW A-FREAKEN-MAZING THE PLAYBOOK IS. ITS NOT CALLED CRACKBERRY FOR NOTHING. smh.

    thats like The President going to The Queens house and telling her sorry ma'am England is not all that. Palaces are played out get rid of em. America is the way.

    its rude and ignorant
    Last edited by BBM.Duchess; 01-11-12 at 09:28 PM.
    recompile likes this.
    01-11-12 09:13 PM
  7. Pearl9100's Avatar
    Eh. I don't care what other people think. People are going to say what they are going to say. As long as you do you, everything will work out. Since I am relatively young, people (usually twice my age) make huge and negative assumptions about me based on my possessions, but it doesn't bother me because I don't let it.
    01-11-12 09:32 PM
  8. Delirious D's Avatar
    Eh. I don't care what other people think. People are going to say what they are going to say. As long as you do you, everything will work out. Since I am relatively young, people (usually twice my age) make huge and negative assumptions about me based on my possessions, but it doesn't bother me because I don't let it.
    trustfund baby.. lol jp KIDDING WITH YOU.
    Pearl9100 likes this.
    01-11-12 09:54 PM
  9. Pearl9100's Avatar
    trustfund baby.. lol jp KIDDING WITH YOU.
    Lol! I am getting lip from a duchess about trust funds. Hilarious!
    01-11-12 10:11 PM
  10. TheStanger's Avatar
    its a BLACKBERRY LOVING FORUM SO OFCOURSE I CAN GO AND BRAG ABOUT HOW A-FREAKEN-MAZING THE PLAYBOOK IS. ITS NOT CALLED CRACKBERRY FOR NOTHING. smh.

    thats like The President going to The Queens house and telling her sorry ma'am England is not all that. Palaces are played out get rid of em. America is the way.

    its rude and ignorant
    My goodness...you're all over the place in this thread. Brag all you want, shoot fireworks out your arse, do whatever you feel the need to do and all the power to you but that isn't even relevant to this discussion.

    You're down on this dude because he has a differing opinion and that's petty and ignorant. This is a forum for all opinions, not just those that favour Blackberry. Maybe you only want to hear from like minded people...that's too drole for me.
    01-11-12 10:21 PM
  11. blackjack93117's Avatar
    The problem with that is inertia. Inertia, budgets, and laziness are such that if someone hadn't drawn a line, nothing would have changed. Now publishers are looking at the numbers and getting off their rear ends to make cleaner more efficient sites for mobile users without Flash. YouTube alone would never have done it without Apple forcing the issue by refusing to accept it anymore.



    When I worked at Netscape, the vast majority of our crash logs from all users (which were primarily Windows) were due to Flash bringing down the browser. Friends of mine on the IE team (the old Spyglass guys) say the same is true for IE as well.

    So you've never noticed your laptop fans come on when you are using a Flash site or playing a Flash game?
    Soo let me get this straight - the people at Netscape blamed flash for bringing down the browser instead of fixing the browser? No wonder netscape went the way of the dinosaur...

    And STILL nobody is forcing you to develop for flash or make browsers.
    I want my FLASH k? Thanks

    The browsers I use don't have an issue with it - other than an occasional crash - but it doesn't bring down the browser - it just makes it not have flash until I close it and open it. But then Ipad never has flash. So I like this better.
    .
    .
    Last edited by blackjack93117; 01-11-12 at 10:37 PM.
    recompile and Pearl9100 like this.
    01-11-12 10:29 PM
  12. diegonei's Avatar
    I thought this thread was about a misleading post about booth size at CES??
    Glad somebody else noticed.

    Both RIM and Adobe said that they will still provide support and updates for the PB's Flash, so HTML5 may be the future, Flash may be irrelevant in the long run, but in light of those facts, this discussion is both irrelevant and offtopic.

    Back on track... Did you see that Zack from iBGR (I really shouldn't add that i there...) posted a somewhqt good report on OS2?

    I was scared that BGR would bash it twice as hard they usually do anything RIM. Geller himself didn't post yet so they might still do it...

    And if you really got bothered about Gizmodo, what is there to say about TechCrunch??
    Serkle K likes this.
    01-11-12 10:30 PM
  13. blackjack93117's Avatar
    Why does it bother people so much that we have Flash? It's weird and creepy.
    Next thing you know they will be coming for my non-curly cue lightbulbs.

    Want to talk about haters and how weird and militant this gets - check this out.

    Occupy Flash - The movement to rid the world of the Flash Player plugin

    All I can say is I like my Flash - D'ya mind?
    .
    Last edited by blackjack93117; 01-11-12 at 10:54 PM.
    Delirious D and alnamvet68 like this.
    01-11-12 10:32 PM
  14. Delirious D's Avatar
    My goodness...you're all over the place in this thread. Brag all you want, shoot fireworks out your arse, do whatever you feel the need to do and all the power to you but that isn't even relevant to this discussion.

    You're down on this dude because he has a differing opinion and that's petty and ignorant. This is a forum for all opinions, not just those that favour Blackberry. Maybe you only want to hear from like minded people...that's too drole for me.
    so i'm supposed to start a thread and not stay in touch with it?
    01-11-12 11:09 PM
  15. recompile's Avatar
    Really? Can you show me where this has been proven?
    Let me google that for you...

    GUIMark 3 – Mobile Showdown Craftymind
    The Man in Blue > "HTML5" versus Flash: Animation Benchmarking
    Flash vs HTML5 Performance (Updated March 2011) | Pacoup.com

    You'll find the first link particularly interesting as it contradicts a good bit of what you've asserted in this thread.

    Don't worry too much about it. We've all bought in to a popular myth at one point or another. The important thing is to let old incorrect ideas go in favor of something a bit closer to the truth.
    01-11-12 11:11 PM
  16. TheStanger's Avatar
    so i'm supposed to start a thread and not stay in touch with it?
    What are you talking about? I don't even know how to respond to this because it has nothing to do with anything discussed in this thread thus far.
    01-11-12 11:51 PM
  17. anon(2325196)'s Avatar
    doesn't hurt to have flash on a playbook regardless of what adobe decided to do, i don't understand how it could be considered bad to have flash, lol
    01-12-12 12:37 AM
  18. Rootbrian's Avatar
    Haters gonna hate.
    I don't listen to or let them influence my decisions.

    Posted from my Crackberry Bold 9900 from wapforums @ crackberry.com
    Pearl9100 and Delirious D like this.
    01-12-12 12:45 AM
  19. EricB1968's Avatar
    doesn't hurt to have flash on a playbook regardless of what adobe decided to do, i don't understand how it could be considered bad to have flash, lol
    Word !! Having flash can't hurt. It's the main reason why I purchased my playbook. If it didn't have flash I would of bought something else that had it. I'm sure many others also bought the playbook because it came with flash pre installed.
    kbz1960 and Delirious D like this.
    01-12-12 12:47 AM
  20. omniusovermind's Avatar
    I'm left to wondering, do any of the more doomsayer posts in this thread realize that the lifespan of all the 2011 tablets will be over before html5 replaces flash to a degree significant enough to matter?
    01-12-12 03:19 AM
  21. southlander's Avatar
    It's funny that the people who seem to have the biggest problems with Flash and complain about crashing and battery drain seem to be using Macs. I rarely see a problem with it, but I'm just a PC.

    Yeah. Same here. All my friends and work associates just expect Flash to work. I am talking about PCs here, not necessarily mobile. It's just another tool and PCs handle it well. When it goes away so be it. Until then it better be installed.

    Apple's style has been in at least a couple of recent notable cases to not support plugin web technologies as well as the PC side. Flash, and Java come to mind.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk
    01-12-12 05:03 AM
  22. abramadhi's Avatar
    I just read the article and I read alot of articles on gizmodo.com. I find it really funny when reading the comments below on playbook articles. They are like playbook sux! or their are no apps! and stuff like that. Just a bunch of idiots on the "lets bash RIM" train just because it is the cool thing. I bet 99% of them have never even tried the Playbook. If they did I know that they would not be as trollish as they are. I love my Playbook.
    Agree with you..Love my bb and pb. A hardcore duo to use in my work..especially when doing a lot of presentation.

    They should try first before putting any comments. Guess they're only using their tablets for toys..
    Delirious D likes this.
    01-12-12 05:11 AM
  23. Dapper37's Avatar
    i bet theirs an app for trolling. i guess it would make it easier then constantly registering up in the competitions' websites. just to bump gums.



    fyi gotta love how we keep using cars as examples.

    pb is like a hybrid we take gas and will aslo use electricity vs ipad using the 7.2v RC batts
    kudos Duchess. Well spoken, so often..
    Crackberry needs an allstar nomination board. Theres at least ten of my fellow CBer's I'd like to see up there!
    Delirious D likes this.
    01-12-12 08:13 AM
  24. Blackberry_boffin's Avatar
    flash isnt important, it is more viewed as a if its there, it will use it.
    flash isnt relevant as everything is going html5.

    The PlayBook was released before it was ready, and this is discussed heavily in other threads, we all made it work because we love BB.

    they are right with this article. I am not a hater, and expect to get flamed, but os2 wil bring them up to par.

    as with RIM nowadays they are just constantly playing catch up
    Exactly how is flash "not important"
    And excatly how is flash "irrelevant"?
    Seriously?
    Everytime I turn it off all sorts of websites flag it as required/off.
    It is all good to parrot the line that HTML 5 is the future but don't even try to knock flash that much.
    At least not yet.
    Delirious D likes this.
    01-12-12 08:19 AM
  25. pantlesspenguin's Avatar
    This thread reminds me SO MUCH of an ongoing debate going on at another tech site I go to. It's mainly between Android users and iOS users. The iOS users say that flash is dead and HTML5 is the future. The Android users say that flash is still relevant and it's awesome to have. Whenever someone drops a link to a HTML5 readiness test for the browser, my Android devices can play it just fine. So my line of thinking is, if my device can handle both JUST FINE, what is the big deal here?? As long as I can play the content I want, I'll be happy.

    I asked this earlier in the thread but I didn't get a response. On the other tech site I mention, it's not uncommon for entire threads to be deleted because kids can't play nice. So now I can't find where those HTML5 readiness tests are posted. Does anyone here know a link? I want to run it on the Playbook and hopefully it'll get an outstanding score so I can go back there bragging. I've become the of a lot of jokes since I bought my Playbook. Shows how much they know!!
    01-12-12 09:39 AM
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