[westronic]

So it's security is the reason it is a business tablet. Okay.

Why is it so much easier and inexpensive to develop business apps for the PlayBook compared to Android or iOS operating systems?

Well, okay, you got me on that one. I have not developed for any of these systems, so my knowledge is all second-hand at best. It is my understanding that development for the Playbook is pretty simple by comparison, but that may not be so.

[mikeo007]

Well, okay, you got me on that one. I have not developed for any of these systems, so my knowledge is all second-hand at best. It is my understanding that development for the Playbook is pretty simple by comparison, but that may not be so.

Your understanding is incredibly flawed. Even with all of the enhancements RIM has made to their development tools, developing for PB/BB10 is only AT BEST on par with Android (which can be he11 to develop for)

By far, the easiest mobile platform to develop for is WP7/WP8. Microsoft's tools are simply unmatched. iOS comes in second, with PBOS and Android in a distant third.

Using MS tools, I can kick out a functional prototype of a simple app (from scratch) in minutes. Try doing that on the Playbook.

[FF22]

So, after all this time we are still arguing over whether the pb is a Professional Tablet or a non-professoinal tablet. Ads can say anything they want within reason. Rim can call it anything they want. In the end, it is what it is. I do believe that the competition is not shaking in its boots. The pb is not the best tablet for just anybody. It still needs quite a bit to make it complete in my (play)book. Its browser still does not organize bookmarks, you cannot search on a page. Its native pdf app is nearly miserable (no search, no bookmarks). It has minimal folder handling properties. Try attaching the photo you just took to an email.

That does not mean it is a failure for me but it certainly could be better for _ME_.

And now it's a year and a half old and promises still run late. At its current price - it is nice but there's other tablets that might attract more attention.

Bb10 is still a remote dream and even 2.1 is a current dream. .668 was pulled and not replaced. Confidence????

[jlmtorch9860]

apps and marketing. I love my playbook but it basically had next to no apps for close to a year and it was fairly expensive for most of it's life span.

+1..simplest answer...

[BennyX]

Playbook hasn't caught on because there are simply too many hoops to jump through to get it to do what you want, compared to other tablets. It lacks out-of-the-box capability, and lacks the apps that most people use regularly.

That's really all it comes down to. Playbook simply makes it harder on you to do what you want in comparison to other tablets.

Even if RIM could somehow even the score, they would simply be bringing the Playbook up to par with others. That alone would not gain them any new customers. They have to equal and then exceed.

It's been what.. almost a year and a half now since the Playbook came out, and it still is the 'poor man's tablet'?

RIM needs to step it up, badly.

*note to RIM: charging rape prices for an LTE Playbook is not going to win you any fans. Good luck selling those tablets at that price.

[brucep1]

Well, okay, you got me on that one. I have not developed for any of these systems, so my knowledge is all second-hand at best. It is my understanding that development for the Playbook is pretty simple by comparison, but that may not be so.

As is mine. But I hadn't heard of any developer praising the PlayBook developer tools compared to iOS and Android. In fact, I've heard the opposite, which is why I was asking.

Always thirsty for more knowledge.

[brucep1]

And now it's a year and a half old and promises still run late. At its current price - it is nice but there's other tablets that might attract more attention.

Exactly. A tablet selling life is only so long. Since the PlayBook was announced, there have been an iPad 2 and new iPad already out. When you go against an industry giant, you better have all your ducks in a row. Your primary selling point shouldn't be "soon".

[blaze_125]

It is the security features that make it a business device

Being a RIM product I expected the PB to be ultra secure and offer me to lock down a bunch of the stuff. Turns out the PB lacks the most basic security features. So that ain't making it a "business device". The business aspect of the PB comes from the Bridge integration and that's it.

Heck... Anyone with a Pulse could pick up a Playbook and start going through your Mail(not the bridged stuff), or through your Apps and saved documents.

I love my PB, and I recommend it on every occasion I get. But Security is not a PB selling point. Blackberry Protect is not even available for the PB yet.

And finally, to answer the initial question of the thread... I think the PB, or RIM as a whole, isn't doing so well because the media is out there to get them. Not a week goes by without bad press on RIM. That scares customers away. Not to mention that most people think RIM caters to Enterprise type customers only. So when they go shopping, they don't even think RIM since RIM, in their mind, only has products for the business minded people.

[BennyX]

Being a RIM product I expected the PB to be ultra secure and offer me to lock down a bunch of the stuff. Turns out the PB lacks the most basic security features. So that ain't making it a "business device". The business aspect of the PB comes from the Bridge integration and that's it.

Heck... Anyone with a Pulse could pick up a Playbook and start going through your Mail(not the bridged stuff), or through your Apps and saved documents.

I love my PB, and I recommend it on every occasion I get. But Security is not a PB selling point. Blackberry Protect is not even available for the PB yet.

And finally, to answer the initial question of the thread... I think the PB, or RIM as a whole, isn't doing so well because the media is out there to get them. Not a week goes by without bad press on RIM. That scares customers away. Not to mention that most people think RIM caters to Enterprise type customers only. So when they go shopping, they don't even think RIM since RIM, in their mind, only has products for the business minded people.

at this point I think security is the least of RIM's problems. If they can't get any developer momentum going *before* they debut BB10 (and get all the big-name apps), it's over. The bad press is well deserved. They slacked off for so long, in their arrogant fashion, and now they pay the price. RIM might have some money in the bank, but I doubt they can survive on that. Jan/Feb is a long ways out and any sales in the meantime are not going to add to that surplus cash in any meaningful way. Taking into account what a realistic marketing/advertising blitz will cost in the leadup and debut of BB10... the odds are not favorable. Also consider the money they have to sink into manufacturing. They simply don't have enough money to do what they need to do.

[melander]

Being a RIM product I expected the PB to be ultra secure and offer me to lock down a bunch of the stuff. Turns out the PB lacks the most basic security features. So that ain't making it a "business device". The business aspect of the PB comes from the Bridge integration and that's it.

Heck... Anyone with a Pulse could pick up a Playbook and start going through your Mail(not the bridged stuff), or through your Apps and saved documents.

I love my PB, and I recommend it on every occasion I get. But Security is not a PB selling point. Blackberry Protect is not even available for the PB yet.

And finally, to answer the initial question of the thread... I think the PB, or RIM as a whole, isn't doing so well because the media is out there to get them. Not a week goes by without bad press on RIM. That scares customers away. Not to mention that most people think RIM caters to Enterprise type customers only. So when they go shopping, they don't even think RIM since RIM, in their mind, only has products for the business minded people.

I have a password on my Playbook so I never have to worry about unauthorized use of my email or anything else. This is an option out of the box for all Playbooks.

Blackberry Protect is a backup application that on BB Phones requires you to disable device encryption. Sorry nitpick, but this is a failing of its design and it would make the Playbook less secure. I do not use it or any app that requires disabling encryption.

[berklon]

RIM or anyone here can call the PB a business tablet, and that may be true... but it's still not the best tablet for business out there.

The PB can't compete on the consumer end or the business end. That's why it's doing so poorly even after huge price slashing. Everyone I know with a PB bought it because it was cheap - and now they're regretting it because they can get much more use out of another tablet at a similar or slightly higher price. There aren't many quality apps and the things you can do with the PB it does awkwardly - even after 1.5 years on the market. BB10 will make little difference.

It's best to just think of the PB as a way for people to help RIM in testing the PBOS till it evolves into BB10. There's no future for the PB - it was a terrible mistake by RIM and they won't do that again.

[rich_a]

Everyone I know with a PB bought it because it was cheap - and now they're regretting it because they can get much more use out of another tablet at a similar or slightly higher price.

Agreed. I loved my playbook when I first bought it, but after a severe bout of itchy feet I've now graduated to a nexus 7 and it's a whole other world full of apps the playbook just doesn't have. I wish I had waited before buying the playbook.

I still have my playbook for now, I'll always remember it fondly as the tablet with fantastic hardware and a decent decent well designed operating system that just needed some extra love from the developers. The Sega Dreamcast of the tablet world.

[faceless_el]

Agreed. I loved my playbook when I first bought it, but after a severe bout of itchy feet I've now graduated to a nexus 7 and it's a whole other world full of apps the playbook just doesn't have. I wish I had waited before buying the playbook.

I still have my playbook for now, I'll always remember it fondly as the tablet with fantastic hardware and a decent decent well designed operating system that just needed some extra love from the developers. The Sega Dreamcast of the tablet world.

The Sega Dreamcast of the tablet world... LOL

[BennyX]

The Sega Dreamcast of the tablet world.

hahah you've hit the nail on the head there, absolutely! lol

[rich_a]

hahah you've hit the nail on the head there, absolutely! lol

Just to follow up and say that I still own a Dreamcast and still love that, too. Like the Playbook it had fantastic hardware (arguably better graphics than the competing PS2), but just couldn't survive the fact that the big third party games were only on the PS2. Eerily similar to RIM's situation, huh?

Jet set radio, the best game from the Dreamcast (in my opinion) comes out next month on the consoles and android... I'll definitely be picking it up on one of the consoles, but not on Android since I don't have a Bluetooth controller!

[BennyX]

Just to follow up and say that I still own a Dreamcast and still love that, too. Like the Playbook it had fantastic hardware (arguably better graphics than the competing PS2), but just couldn't survive the fact that the big third party games were only on the PS2. Eerily similar to RIM's situation, huh?

Jet set radio, the best game from the Dreamcast (in my opinion) comes out next month on the consoles and android... I'll definitely be picking it up on one of the consoles, but not on Android since I don't have a Bluetooth controller!

heheh yeah i had the Dreamcast too... i still think it was/is the best console ever. I had the keyboard, mouse, VGA box, broadband adapter.. the whole bit. It rocked!

I hated the PS2 for killing the DC. To this day i refuse to buy Sony. They've done quite well digging their own grave since then anyhow.

[melander]

Just to follow up and say that I still own a Dreamcast and still love that, too. Like the Playbook it had fantastic hardware (arguably better graphics than the competing PS2), but just couldn't survive the fact that the big third party games were only on the PS2. Eerily similar to RIM's situation, huh?

Jet set radio, the best game from the Dreamcast (in my opinion) comes out next month on the consoles and android... I'll definitely be picking it up on one of the consoles, but not on Android since I don't have a Bluetooth controller!

Except the Playbook is fully useful and moreso on the web than most other tablets. Think about this; When you use your PC, how many apps do you regularly use that are exclusive to it?

[rich_a]

Except the Playbook is fully useful and moreso on the web than most other tablets. Think about this; When you use your PC, how many apps do you regularly use that are exclusive to it?

Quite a lot of the applications I use on my PC, both at work and home, don't have any mobile equivalents, so I don't get your logic.

As for the playbook being more useful online than other tablets, I struggle to see that logic, too. The new tablet I have bought to replace my playbook can do everything my playbook could do online except for many more applications and the stock browser is miles better in just about every aspect. I challenge you to use mobile chrome and compare it with the playbook's browser and see which you prefer, there's absolutely no contest. Heck, we don't even have the ability to save logins or amend bookmarks yet!

I'm sorry to break this to you, but while I'm a playbook fan the cold harsh reality is that the competition is really hot and it will take a lot for RIM to catch up. I hope they do catch up and provide a good alternative to the current two leaders. Technology needs constant competition and innovation and I'm sure RIM can bring something to the table, but the playbook as it stands cannot do anything that the computer can't. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be proud of the playbook, though. It still has a great operating system and some great features like the bezel features, it just needs more software!

[BennyX]

Quite a lot of the applications I use on my PC, both at work and home, don't have any mobile equivalents, so I don't get your logic.

As for the playbook being more useful online than other tablets, I struggle to see that logic, too. The new tablet I have bought to replace my playbook can do everything my playbook could do online except for many more applications and the stock browser is miles better in just about every aspect. I challenge you to use mobile chrome and compare it with the playbook's browser and see which you prefer, there's absolutely no contest. Heck, we don't even have the ability to save logins or amend bookmarks yet!

I'm sorry to break this to you, but while I'm a playbook fan the cold harsh reality is that the competition is really hot and it will take a lot for RIM to catch up. I hope they do catch up and provide a good alternative to the current two leaders. Technology needs constant competition and innovation and I'm sure RIM can bring something to the table, but the playbook as it stands cannot do anything that the computer can't. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be proud of the playbook, though. It still has a great operating system and some great features like the bezel features, it just needs more software!

You speak the truth, man... RIM needs to open their eyes. They're so behind the curve and they don't even seem to be aware of it. It's sad.

[rich_a]

You speak the truth, man... RIM needs to open their eyes. They're so behind the curve and they don't even seem to be aware of it. It's sad.

To be fair I think RIM are well aware of their limitations. I like to believe that the decisions they've made to delay BB10 were made because they know they have to ship the goods from day 1 and can't afford another "storm" debacle. I also hope they're courting the third party developers they need (browsing this forum should give them a good indication) so they can drop their apps as soon as the first Bb10 devices hit.

[BennyX]

To be fair I think RIM are well aware of their limitations. I like to believe that the decisions they've made to delay BB10 were made because they know they have to ship the goods from day 1 and can't afford another "storm" debacle. I also hope they're courting the third party developers they need (browsing this forum should give them a good indication) so they can drop their apps as soon as the first Bb10 devices hit.

You are more hopeful than I, and for that, I salute you!

[torndownunit]

A lot of the reasons listed apply to the tech minded consumer. But on a basic level, there are certain things general consumers expect from a tablet. There are several apps you can use on every other platform that aren't available on the Playbook. Some of the missing apps might not be a big deal to a lot of users on here, but they are to a lot of other people. And plenty of reason to not buy a Playbook. I've said it before, but RIM can't really redefine what people expect out of a tablet at this point.

I love my Playbook, but a few months into ownership, I still have found decent alternatives to quite a few apps I'd like to be able to use daily. I have no doubt I would prefer QNX to other OS's on a tablet. But if I can't run a lot of things I want to run on it that is kind of a moot point. I will always hold on to my Playbook, but I am definitely keeping an eye on what else is coming out.

[xKrNMBoYx]

RIM kind of screwed up from the start. I didn't really purchase mine until 2.0 was near by, but from what I read for months was buggy software, lack of apps, lack of email client and other things. The constant putback of updates didn't really help RIM either.

Because some or all of these problems lots of people quit on the Playbook..like the workers at BestBuy etc. The price drop caused a stir about the company going bankrupt or what not, and normal non tech savy people forgot about it.

It's really hard for a tablet to be popular to the wide world like the ipad or other android tablets when they don't have many of the apps on the other ecosystems. People like apps.

I'm fine with my playbook, but those are my reasons to think why the playbook is not quite so popular

[trsbbs]

The PB fell flat on its face right out of the gate. Too little, too soon, two stupid CEOs.

It still does not have the options us early adopters were promised.

Also, what 7" boom? There is only a IPad boom. I do not see any other pad
doing anything great. Regardless of size.

Tim

[melander]

Quite a lot of the applications I use on my PC, both at work and home, don't have any mobile equivalents, so I don't get your logic.

As for the playbook being more useful online than other tablets, I struggle to see that logic, too. The new tablet I have bought to replace my playbook can do everything my playbook could do online except for many more applications and the stock browser is miles better in just about every aspect. I challenge you to use mobile chrome and compare it with the playbook's browser and see which you prefer, there's absolutely no contest. Heck, we don't even have the ability to save logins or amend bookmarks yet!

I'm sorry to break this to you, but while I'm a playbook fan the cold harsh reality is that the competition is really hot and it will take a lot for RIM to catch up. I hope they do catch up and provide a good alternative to the current two leaders. Technology needs constant competition and innovation and I'm sure RIM can bring something to the table, but the playbook as it stands cannot do anything that the computer can't. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be proud of the playbook, though. It still has a great operating system and some great features like the bezel features, it just needs more software!

One test since you have an Android.

Go to Conan O'Brien Presents: Team Coco @ TeamCoco.com on Android and on the Playbook. I'll try an Android out in a store display again... When I tried this last year, all the Android tablets lagged behind the Playbook hence the reason I bought it instead.