02-24-12 09:23 PM
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  1. EchoTango's Avatar
    I wanted to open a discussion regarding why some popular and clearly wanted apps are not being offered on Blackberry.

    I'm confused as to how RIM might rationalize offering their own music or video offerings while at the same time opening up to what is really competitive services. I think the answer is...they won't.

    While many on CrackBerry bemoan the fact that Skype is not offered on the Playbook and we tend to blame the vendor but I suspect RIM is not making it easy for Skype due to conflicts with it's own video chat application. That naturally evolves (devolves ?) in to a "who pays or who gets paid ?" discussion with RIM investing in building out the code and infrastructure to deliver vid chat with Skype potentially making that investment moot.

    You can apply this eco-system self preservation model to all apps and see a pattern of potentially conflicting services being left out with little or no explanation when in fact Skype, Netflix, Amazon might be champing at the bit to offer RIM's customers access.

    Remember that small start-up that was offering push messaging that RIM just turned off out of the blue without explaining why ?

    I'm not bashing RIM as I believe they need to have a return on their investments but I think folks should consider this aspect when they are confused at to why some popular services are not offered on RIM products.
    Last edited by EchoTango; 02-24-12 at 03:08 PM.
    02-24-12 03:06 PM
  2. pkcable's Avatar
    I really think this is on the vendors. Unfortunately many feel the BB platform is just not worth their effort. Yes RIM can take some blame in not making it easy for them, BUT with the PB OS and in particular with 2.0 they have made major strides in the "making it easy" department. With the integrated Android Player, and with the conversion tools RIM provides to vendors, it's now on them to port their applications. I have to believe that RIM is now making every effort to get these major vendors to actually port their apps. I think once one of the major's does it, others will follow! (fingers crossed anyways!)
    cafemag likes this.
    02-24-12 03:19 PM
  3. dbmalloy's Avatar
    Well if you follow the threads... Netflix has made it very clear about no future plans for Playbook support... Amazon has gone out of their way to make clear they are not interested in supporting the Playbook... just look at all the issues Playbook users on Amazon are now having with the streaming services.. No attempt on their part to even resolve it..... Promised Kindles app a year ago and no hint they ever actually developed it....

    What RIM had made clear is they want to make their own Eco system ala Apple Google and Amazon... To that end expect to see a cloud service available in the future as they dropped 100 million dollars on and Irish cloud service last year.....

    What no one has explained and EchoTango sort of makes my point... How do you "make" a company develop and release an app for a platform.... You cannot....

    People need to wake up and look at the playbook user base.... maybe a million????? attained with fire sale prices... If I were a developer I would be wondering what will happen to sales when the price ineveitably goes back up..... to big develepors Playbook is a Niche market at best..... as is RIM right now... People keep acting as if RIM is the market player they were 3 years ago.... time to come to reality.... they are not...... The Playbook as far as I am conerned blows all tablets away.... But then again that is my opinion... but you know what..... a developer does not care.....

    As I do not work for RIM I cannot say if they are or are not pursuing the "big time" apps with any vigor..... One hope they are as they have shown signs of a comeback... Even if they become a Niche player I have not intention of leaving them.....
    notfanboy, Hockey_Fan10 and Skimpy like this.
    02-24-12 03:29 PM
  4. JamesDax3's Avatar
    Nahhh, they will all come eventually.
    02-24-12 03:31 PM
  5. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    If RIM is blocking out well-adopted cross platform tools in the name of protecting their own ecosystem, it is a VERY foolish decision. I know Google is persona non grata for some, but look at what they have for video chat:

    Google Chat
    Video Chat
    ooVoo
    Tango
    Qik (owned by Skype now, IRC).

    For video:

    Google Movies
    YouTube (theirs)
    Netflix
    Amazon Prime (via browser)

    Basically, I think to be a serious contender, you should never shut out major apps that can pull in new users.

    Thankfully, I do not think RIM is that foolish.
    miata likes this.
    02-24-12 03:36 PM
  6. ralfyguy's Avatar
    I wanted to open a discussion regarding why some popular and clearly wanted apps are not being offered on Blackberry.

    I'm confused as to how RIM might rationalize offering their own music or video offerings while at the same time opening up to what is really competitive services. I think the answer is...they won't.

    While many on CrackBerry bemoan the fact that Skype is not offered on the Playbook and we tend to blame the vendor but I suspect RIM is not making it easy for Skype due to conflicts with it's own video chat application. That naturally evolves (devolves ?) in to a "who pays or who gets paid ?" discussion with RIM investing in building out the code and infrastructure to deliver vid chat with Skype potentially making that investment moot.

    You can apply this eco-system self preservation model to all apps and see a pattern of potentially conflicting services being left out with little or no explanation when in fact Skype, Netflix, Amazon might be champing at the bit to offer RIM's customers access.

    Remember that small start-up that was offering push messaging that RIM just turned off out of the blue without explaining why ?

    I'm not bashing RIM as I believe they need to have a return on their investments but I think folks should consider this aspect when they are confused at to why some popular services are not offered on RIM products.
    You may have a point there...
    RIM may not WANT that stuff on the PB.

    No Netflix - Competition to their video store.

    No Skype - Have everybody who wants free video chat buy a PB.

    No Amazon video (anymore) - Competition to their video store.

    No iTunes - Competition to their music store.
    02-24-12 03:42 PM
  7. swyost's Avatar
    Why is there a need for yet another thread on this subject? They are not on the platform for a very simple reason: there are either not enough current or potential Playbook subscribers to their services. It costs money to develop and support for a platform and you can expect as much major developer interest as any platform classified as "other" in the stats. That is the beginning and the end of the story - no conspiracies, no grudges against RIM, no bribes, etc..

    If there is any more to the story, it would probably be that RIM hasn't been willing to cut these companies a deal to make it worth their while. Microsoft made deals with companies like Netflix to get them on board for Windows Phone 7 at launch, and it has paid off. While no where near the size of the Apple and Android stores, their marketplace is growing faster than either did at the start and is getting quality apps. RIM needs to do more than say they have a developer friendly platform and give away some Playbooks. It will always be about what is in it for the other company if they will not see any short term benefit with respect to their subscriber base. Regardess of what people here think, there are not enough Playbook owners to account for more that a minor blip on a radar screen in the present tense.
    dbmalloy likes this.
    02-24-12 03:45 PM
  8. BBPandy's Avatar
    If there is any more to the story, it would probably be that RIM hasn't been willing to cut these companies a deal to make it worth their while. Microsoft made deals with companies like Netflix to get them on board for Windows Phone 7 at launch, and it has paid off. While no where near the size of the Apple and Android stores, their marketplace is growing faster than either did at the start and is getting quality apps. RIM needs to do more than say they have a developer friendly platform and give away some Playbooks. It will always be about what is in it for the other company if they will not see any short term benefit with respect to their subscriber base. Regardess of what people here think, there are not enough Playbook owners to account for more that a minor blip on a radar screen in the present tense.
    Yea it only cost Microsoft 8.5 Billion $$$ to get Skype on their platform
    02-24-12 03:54 PM
  9. gwinegarden's Avatar
    "Skype, Netflix, iTunes...not ever on RIM"

    Skype - who knows, I think it will come
    Netflix - they are having enough problems, their stock just got downgraded, look out below
    iTunes????? - why on earth, would the Playbook get iTunes?
    02-24-12 03:55 PM
  10. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    You may have a point there...
    RIM may not WANT that stuff on the PB.

    No Netflix - Competition to their video store.

    No Skype - Have everybody who wants free video chat buy a PB.

    No Amazon video (anymore) - Competition to their video store.

    No iTunes - Competition to their music store.
    Can you see why that sounds like an INSANE business model?

    Why is there a need for yet another thread on this subject? They are not on the platform for a very simple reason: there are either not enough current or potential Playbook subscribers to their services. It costs money to develop and support for a platform and you can expect as much major developer interest as any platform classified as "other" in the stats. That is the beginning and the end of the story - no conspiracies, no grudges against RIM, no bribes, etc..

    If there is any more to the story, it would probably be that RIM hasn't been willing to cut these companies a deal to make it worth their while. Microsoft made deals with companies like Netflix to get them on board for Windows Phone 7 at launch, and it has paid off. While no where near the size of the Apple and Android stores, their marketplace is growing faster than either did at the start and is getting quality apps. RIM needs to do more than say they have a developer friendly platform and give away some Playbooks. It will always be about what is in it for the other company if they will not see any short term benefit with respect to their subscriber base. Regardess of what people here think, there are not enough Playbook owners to account for more that a minor blip on a radar screen in the present tense.

    Harsh, but most likely true IMHO.
    02-24-12 03:58 PM
  11. jwn66's Avatar
    You may have a point there...
    RIM may not WANT that stuff on the PB.

    No Netflix - Competition to their video store.

    No Skype - Have everybody who wants free video chat buy a PB.

    No Amazon video (anymore) - Competition to their video store.

    No iTunes - Competition to their music store.
    I thought they just got rid of 2 bosses because of massive brain errors in thinking this way. Please don't tell me the new guy is following the same path of narrow mindedness.
    02-24-12 03:59 PM
  12. EchoTango's Avatar
    Why is there a need for yet another thread on this subject? They are not on the platform for a very simple reason: there are either not enough current or potential Playbook subscribers to their services. It costs money to develop and support for a platform and you can expect as much major developer interest as any platform classified as "other" in the stats. That is the beginning and the end of the story - no conspiracies, no grudges against RIM, no bribes, etc..

    If there is any more to the story, it would probably be that RIM hasn't been willing to cut these companies a deal to make it worth their while. Microsoft made deals with companies like Netflix to get them on board for Windows Phone 7 at launch, and it has paid off. While no where near the size of the Apple and Android stores, their marketplace is growing faster than either did at the start and is getting quality apps. RIM needs to do more than say they have a developer friendly platform and give away some Playbooks. It will always be about what is in it for the other company if they will not see any short term benefit with respect to their subscriber base. Regardess of what people here think, there are not enough Playbook owners to account for more that a minor blip on a radar screen in the present tense.
    Well, I find this a very simplistic view........

    We really don't know what the prevailing "deal" construct is. Does the vendor allow the content provider access to it's clients or does the vendor purchase access to the content on behalf of its clients ? I'm sure this is a deep dark secret for the players as you clearly don't want your competition to know and you might find a more "compliant" part to which you can take advantage of. In any case we don't really know how this actually works.

    Either of these models would work (or a hybrid of both) but my thinking is RIM is behaving (dare I say !) more like Apple than like Google. Of course, Apple is a completely closed eco-system and all content, apps or anything else is either owned or vetted by Apple.

    I'm afraid RIM seems to be moving down this same path with significantly less leverage or resources.
    02-24-12 04:11 PM
  13. aha's Avatar
    You may have a point there...
    RIM may not WANT that stuff on the PB.

    No Netflix - Competition to their video store.

    No Skype - Have everybody who wants free video chat buy a PB.

    No Amazon video (anymore) - Competition to their video store.

    No iTunes - Competition to their music store.
    That's like fighting too many wars at the same time. RIM should be focusing on one thing only: to provide the best communication and entertaining handheld device in the market. To reach that goal, RIM need to have the support for most of the best selling apps and hopefully have the access to most of the best selling stores. RIM's own stores and apps will flourish when their device becoming the best.
    02-24-12 04:12 PM
  14. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Well, I find this a very simplistic view........

    We really don't know what the prevailing "deal" construct is. Does the vendor allow the content provider access to it's clients or does the vendor purchase access to the content on behalf of its clients ? I'm sure this is a deep dark secret for the players as you clearly don't want your competition to know and you might find a more "compliant" part to which you can take advantage of. In any case we don't really know how this actually works.

    Either of these models would work (or a hybrid of both) but my thinking is RIM is behaving (dare I say !) more like Apple than like Google. Of course, Apple is a completely closed eco-system and all content, apps or anything else is either owned or vetted by Apple.

    I'm afraid RIM seems to be moving down this same path with significantly less leverage or resources.
    I agree.

    I am not sure they can afford to. See, I think Apple can get away with not having Netflix. Heck... Apple has so much pull now, they could make Netflix pay them.

    RIM is playing catchup with regards to content, and it is gonna cost em.
    miata likes this.
    02-24-12 04:14 PM
  15. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    That's like fighting too many wars at the same time. RIM should be focusing on one thing only: to provide the best communication and entertaining handheld device in the market. To reach that goal, RIM need to have the support for most of the best selling apps and hopefully have the access to most of the best selling stores. RIM's own stores and apps will flourish when their device becoming the best.
    I humbly concur.
    02-24-12 04:15 PM
  16. TheScionicMan's Avatar
    Advanced Business Theory Class

    Hosted by CrackBerry.

    Chaddface likes this.
    02-24-12 04:18 PM
  17. cbvinh's Avatar
    You may have a point there...
    RIM may not WANT that stuff on the PB.

    No Netflix - Competition to their video store.

    No Skype - Have everybody who wants free video chat buy a PB.

    No Amazon video (anymore) - Competition to their video store.

    No iTunes - Competition to their music store.
    Your analysis is wrong. Here's why:

    Video Store is powered by Rovi. I doubt RIM makes any worthwhile money, if any, from it.

    Music Store is powered by 7digital. I doubt RIM makes any worthwhile money, if any, from it.

    Video Chat is by RIM. It's free.

    RIM made the Playbook. They realized they weren't going to attract Netflix, Skype, Amazon, and obviously Apple for app development. They partnered with other companies. There. That's it.
    app_Developer likes this.
    02-24-12 04:56 PM
  18. OneArmJack's Avatar
    You may have a point there...
    RIM may not WANT that stuff on the PB.

    No Netflix - Competition to their video store.

    No Skype - Have everybody who wants free video chat buy a PB.

    No Amazon video (anymore) - Competition to their video store.

    No iTunes - Competition to their music store.
    Add to that:

    No Kindle - Competition to the pre-installed Kobo reader/store

    Netflix is on devices with far fewer units (WD TV, for example), as is the Kindle App (Web OS). My money is on RIM preventing these apps from being released on the Playbook for some misjudged commercial reasons.
    02-24-12 05:09 PM
  19. kbz1960's Avatar
    One would think that since you all are paying customers, right? That a company would like to keep their customers happy. As for skype I really wish they could at least make a deal to integrate into their own video chat some how if nothing else.

    Or at least anything else either integrated in it or an app for multiple IM's that have video chat. Having only a proprietary video chat isn't good unless everyone you know also owns a pb and that ain't happening.

    Would I use it, as much as I do on my laptop which is like almost never. But I do want it for those that do use it.
    02-24-12 05:10 PM
  20. mossfoot's Avatar
    @Netflixhelps Tweets:

    Just an update re: Netflix

    Earlier today we let you know that @Netflixhelps tweeted “We don’t have any current plans to support BlackBerry”. This afternoon they posted an new tweet that read: “Generally we want to be on every screen that’s relevant to you. While we don’t support Blackberry today, our plans can change. Thanks all!”
    02-24-12 05:12 PM
  21. Mystic205's Avatar
    The most and critical Skype component is NOT video chat.. It is Skype calling and support for Skype-in over wifi.
    I can well live without video chat, but true VoIP with calling to and from landlines/cell is a critical need

    ITunes isn't needed, you can already get a windows/Mac app to sync to BB and android.. Sync playlists to PB and all would be well
    Last edited by mystic205; 02-24-12 at 05:23 PM.
    mossfoot likes this.
    02-24-12 05:20 PM
  22. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    If they're blocking Netflix because it represents competition, why don't they block YouTube movies as well?
    02-24-12 05:30 PM
  23. mossfoot's Avatar
    The most and critical Skype component is NOT video chat.. It is Skype calling and support for Skype-in over wifi.
    I can well live without video chat, but true VoIP with calling to and from landlines/cell is a critical need
    THIS.

    Everyone goes on and on about video chat and the fact is I use Skype to call people by voice - my grandma in England has a landline and barely understands the remote control on her TV. It's my surrogate phone.

    I want Skype, but I want to see more options out there for VOIP! The only one out there right now is Comwave, and I have issues with it (ie no alerts - I can't tell if I'm receiving a call if I'm on another application) but even though it's a pay service I like the fact they allow for you to get a receiving phone number.
    02-24-12 05:33 PM
  24. papped's Avatar
    @Netflixhelps Tweets:

    Just an update re: Netflix

    Earlier today we let you know that @Netflixhelps tweeted “We don’t have any current plans to support BlackBerry”. This afternoon they posted an new tweet that read: “Generally we want to be on every screen that’s relevant to you. While we don’t support Blackberry today, our plans can change. Thanks all!”
    Oh snap, they went from canned response #1 to canned response #2....
    02-24-12 05:33 PM
  25. papped's Avatar
    If they're blocking Netflix because it represents competition, why don't they block YouTube movies as well?
    Honestly it doesn't matter if they're blocking it or not. Either:
    1 - They're blocking it because it competes (I seriously doubt this)
    2 - They failed to push to get it on the PB, and so it's one more negative that hurts their tablet adoption overall. RIM should be pushing this, not users... RIM needs to sell the tablets.

    Take your pick, either way they screwed up...
    02-24-12 05:35 PM
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