12-10-11 10:00 AM
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  1. s219's Avatar
    The iPhone does drop lots of calls. That is the one thing that shootsscores is right about.
    I am not sure I agree with that -- I think it's a generalization made by people with limited experience.

    I am the one responsible for device/carrier testing at my company, and here's my fleet last time I photographed it in September (photo taken with another iPhone, so it's not shown alongside the three others):



    I will tell you right now that the differences I see have more to do with carrier and signal strength than the phone or device. In this area, BB and iPhones on AT&T have much poorer coverage. I don't track dropped calls, since we'd be talking 2-3 drops per 100 calls. But what I do notice is that there is poor or no coverage in parts of the area with AT&T. This causes all the devices to have issues on AT&T -- poor quality, can't make calls, or don't receive calls. It doesn't matter if it's an iPhone or a BB.

    It's a totally different story on Sprint and Verizon. All the devices are solid, and that includes the iPhone 4 and 4S. I switched to Verizon for my personal 4S, and it's a night and day difference with AT&T. I can totally see why the iPhone had such a lousy reputation for call performance when it was chained to AT&T.

    In different parts of the country, it's a different story. If I head up to a nearby major city 40 miles away, AT&T is solid (and so is Sprint/Verizon of course). As far as I am concerned, it's all about the network, and the device is secondary. I wouldn't see such a big difference between AT&T and Verizon, with equivalent iPhone 4 and 4S devices, if the problem was with the device.

    But, hey, that's just me, with the actual experience and expertise. You can always believe HeShootsAndMisses who needs to come up with kiddy names to make a point. God forbid there should be legitimate experience/knowledge involved.
    12-09-11 11:20 AM
  2. grover5's Avatar
    I am not sure I agree with that -- I think it's a generalization made by people with limited experience.

    I am the one responsible for device/carrier testing at my company, and here's my fleet last time I photographed it in September (photo taken with another iPhone, so it's not shown alongside the three others):

    Click to view quoted image


    I will tell you right now that the differences I see have more to do with carrier and signal strength than the phone or device. In this area, BB and iPhones on AT&T have much poorer coverage. I don't track dropped calls, since we'd be talking 2-3 drops per 100 calls. But what I do notice is that there is poor or no coverage in parts of the area with AT&T. This causes all the devices to have issues on AT&T -- poor quality, can't make calls, or don't receive calls. It doesn't matter if it's an iPhone or a BB.

    It's a totally different story on Sprint and Verizon. All the devices are solid, and that includes the iPhone 4 and 4S. I switched to Verizon for my personal 4S, and it's a night and day difference with AT&T. I can totally see why the iPhone had such a lousy reputation for call performance when it was chained to AT&T.

    In different parts of the country, it's a different story. If I head up to a nearby major city 40 miles away, AT&T is solid (and so is Sprint/Verizon of course). As far as I am concerned, it's all about the network, and the device is secondary. I wouldn't see such a big difference between AT&T and Verizon, with equivalent iPhone 4 and 4S devices, if the problem was with the device.

    But, hey, that's just me, with the actual experience and expertise. You can always believe HeShootsAndMisses who needs to come up with kiddy names to make a point. God forbid there should be legitimate experience/knowledge involved.
    You might be right. But I know about 15 people with iphones on verizon and att (none on sprint) and they have all complained at one time or another about dropped calls. Most view it as something they can live with as they are enamored with the phone for other reasons.
    12-09-11 11:40 AM
  3. bb-bandit's Avatar
    I am not sure I agree with that -- I think it's a generalization made by people with limited experience.

    I am the one responsible for device/carrier testing at my company, and here's my fleet last time I photographed it in September (photo taken with another iPhone, so it's not shown alongside the three others):

    Click to view quoted image


    I will tell you right now that the differences I see have more to do with carrier and signal strength than the phone or device. In this area, BB and iPhones on AT&T have much poorer coverage. I don't track dropped calls, since we'd be talking 2-3 drops per 100 calls. But what I do notice is that there is poor or no coverage in parts of the area with AT&T. This causes all the devices to have issues on AT&T -- poor quality, can't make calls, or don't receive calls. It doesn't matter if it's an iPhone or a BB.

    It's a totally different story on Sprint and Verizon. All the devices are solid, and that includes the iPhone 4 and 4S. I switched to Verizon for my personal 4S, and it's a night and day difference with AT&T. I can totally see why the iPhone had such a lousy reputation for call performance when it was chained to AT&T.

    In different parts of the country, it's a different story. If I head up to a nearby major city 40 miles away, AT&T is solid (and so is Sprint/Verizon of course). As far as I am concerned, it's all about the network, and the device is secondary. I wouldn't see such a big difference between AT&T and Verizon, with equivalent iPhone 4 and 4S devices, if the problem was with the device.

    But, hey, that's just me, with the actual experience and expertise. You can always believe HeShootsAndMisses who needs to come up with kiddy names to make a point. God forbid there should be legitimate experience/knowledge involved.
    I have iphone 4s on Verizon. No dropped calls. I have better reception and call quality than my Storm 2. It should be noted that in the 4s, Apple changed the radios to qualcomm which are superior to the radios that were used in the iP4. Also, the stability of the ios is amazing. I was always doing battery pulls with my BB. ip4s is a rock. Build quality is amazing as well. Not a flaw on the phone. I've been impressed.
    12-09-11 11:46 AM
  4. cfarm3's Avatar
    There is almost no one left who believes that. First, RIM would need to be competent (to actually develop that feature to release level). Second, decisive (to actually pick and execute a strategy). Third, timely (we are talking about RIM, from the northern land of "Every day is like Saturday, eh"). Fourth, influential (to get developers to jump through the hoops of "almost compatible").

    I think it is generally accepted' outside this forum, that RIM is neither competent, decisive, nor timely. And their influence is limited.
    It's posts like this that tank your credibility and make it clear you're just here to troll.

    Incompetent? Really? Do the bullet points from the last quarter bear that out?


    • $4.2B in revenue
    • Service revenue passed $1B for the first time
    • 40% increase in subscriber base Y-o-Y
    • Smartphone shipments 27% over previous quarter.
    12-09-11 11:56 AM
  5. xandermac's Avatar
    It's posts like this that tank your credibility and make it clear you're just here to troll.

    Incompetent? Really? Do the bullet points from the last quarter bear that out?


    • $4.2B in revenue
    • Service revenue passed $1B for the first time
    • 40% increase in subscriber base Y-o-Y
    • Smartphone shipments 27% over previous quarter.
    RIMM 52 week $70.54 - $15.98 What does this bear out?

    also, from Forbes http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavi...can-get-worse/

    There is almost zero faith in RIM I'm afraid.
    Last edited by xandermac; 12-09-11 at 12:06 PM.
    OMGitworks likes this.
    12-09-11 12:04 PM
  6. palmless's Avatar
    It's posts like this that tank your credibility and make it clear you're just here to troll.

    Incompetent? Really? Do the bullet points from the last quarter bear that out?


    • $4.2B in revenue
    • Service revenue passed $1B for the first time
    • 40% increase in subscriber base Y-o-Y
    • Smartphone shipments 27% over previous quarter.
    If you read those data points in the quarterly, you skipped twenty others that spell doom. How's ARPU, the key measure for a pager/phone manufacturer? Plummeting. GP%? Same. Who's buying? Third-world nations and "who cares what it costs, I'm comfortable with it" government workers.

    I predict the nuggets will be slimmer on December 15. You can simply look around and see the evaporating market share. If you liked the stock at $70 and still like it in the high teens, you are going to simply love the "RIMM stock year-end $9.99 per share sale" on December 16.

    But back to the point... You actually believe someday you will run Android apps on a Blackberry? Still? Despite everything we know? Despite the track record? Interesting.

    You could spot a troll, they make up berry funny inames, attack exclusively via ad hominem, and still see Flash malware as a feature after even Adobe has moved on. Sad.
    xandermac likes this.
    12-09-11 01:51 PM
  7. anon(757282)'s Avatar
    But back to the point... You actually believe someday you will run Android apps on a Blackberry? Still? Despite everything we know? Despite the track record? Interesting.
    Yes, of course they will. Android apps are already running on the PlayBook OS2 developer beta. RIM apps make more money for developers than any other system. So they will provide a huge number of apps to RIM. QNX and BB10 are closely tied, so it is an easy transition to apps on BB10.

    OS2 and BB10 is ushering a new exciting era for RIM.
    12-09-11 02:38 PM
  8. bitek's Avatar
    If you read those data points in the quarterly, you skipped twenty others that spell doom. How's ARPU, the key measure for a pager/phone manufacturer? Plummeting. GP%? Same. Who's buying? Third-world nations and "who cares what it costs, I'm comfortable with it" government workers.

    I predict the nuggets will be slimmer on December 15. You can simply look around and see the evaporating market share. If you liked the stock at $70 and still like it in the high teens, you are going to simply love the "RIMM stock year-end $9.99 per share sale" on December 16.

    But back to the point... You actually believe someday you will run Android apps on a Blackberry? Still? Despite everything we know? Despite the track record? Interesting.

    You could spot a troll, they make up berry funny inames, attack exclusively via ad hominem, and still see Flash malware as a feature after even Adobe has moved on. Sad.
    1. android apps are already running on playbook. i can atest to that since i had 2
    0 developer version running on my playbook

    2. Even at $9 per share this is still more than Apple shares at some point

    3. USA is not the whole world. Again Xbox vs PS3 example. Xbox is outselling Playstation in USA but worldwide PS3 has more units sold.
    12-09-11 02:50 PM
  9. Economist101's Avatar
    Same as you read every day. The selling prices of the 32 and 64GB Playbooks appear to sell for much more than the rough idea costs (we only have guesses till RIM reports). And they are selling out. 16GB are about break even.And purchases before and after the holiday sales prices expand the profit margin.

    Your continued confusion about bookkeeping practices ignore the hard dollar reality. It cost RIM the exact same real dollars to buy their PlayBooks, with or without your accounting games. The checks they wrote to buy the devices did not change because of accounting rules. A dollar is a dollar. The only thing that changed was they sold some of PlayBooks for lower prices than expected, but still at high enough price to earn A PROFIT.

    We will all be very interested to see the 3rd quarter results from RIM. Then we get to debate what the results really mean. If you are still around by then.
    It's hard to allege that I am playing accounting games when it was RIM's report that's at issue, not anything I claim. I simply asked for your evidence that the PlayBook is profitable, and all you offered was supposition based only on estimated materials cost, which has already been established as an incomplete picture. Trust me, if the $485 million charge was the non-event you believe it to be, RIM would've held the issue for its earnings call, as it did with its planned layoffs a couple calls back.

    As for the 3rd quarter results, I think it's clear that when those underwhelm, you'll shift your focus to the next quarter, and the next, and the next. There seems to be no limit to the "just wait until X" arguments around this forum.
    12-09-11 03:12 PM
  10. lynntarbox's Avatar
    I dont know why the discussion has boiled down to making mere dollars and pennies from these huge pricing slashes in order to try and say RIM is making any sort of 'profit'.

    Its like people are trying to avoid the real issue here. That is the huge backlash and massive decline in interest from the general populace as well as having very little faith in the company in regaining traction as a viable competitor in the mobile/tablet market place.
    JBenn911 likes this.
    12-09-11 04:05 PM
  11. thebignewt's Avatar
    I dont know why the discussion has boiled down to making mere dollars and pennies from these huge pricing slashes in order to try and say RIM is making any sort of 'profit'.

    Its like people are trying to avoid the real issue here. That is the huge backlash and massive decline in interest from the general populace as well as having very little faith in the company in regaining traction as a viable competitor in the mobile/tablet market place.
    Remember the Pearl! Remember the Curve! Remember the multicolored track ball lights! Those were the days.
    12-09-11 05:09 PM
  12. the_sleuth's Avatar
    All of the trolls and iPhone users need to get a life. Get on a 12 step withdrawal program and leave CrackBerry. Here's the score so far this year:

    Has RIM management made horrible strategic mistakes this year?
    Yes
    Should Brothers RIM (Jim B. & Mike L.) be fired for +70% decline in RIMM stock?
    Yes
    Was PlayBook half-baked when first released?
    If you're a consumer, yes. If you're a potential BB customer with no BB smartphone, then yes. If you're an enterprise customer, maybe not. BB Bridge is a neat security feature for access to PIM for enterprise.
    Are BB OS 7 phones a life saver for RIM?
    No, a brief stop gap measure until BBOS 10 next summer or whenever?

    Does iPhone 4 drop calls? That depends, initially yes? But corrected with rubber bump. If you're on AT&T, then definitely possible. If on Verizon, then no, it's a myth.

    Does iPhone 4S drop calls? Myth on Verizon, possibly on AT&T. Hey I was in LV last week on AT&T, it dropped my calls on my 9860. How can Americans live with such a spotty network?

    Does PlayBook work with Android Apps? Arguably, right now 50/50 success on PB OS 2 beta, it has limitations. But with rooted PB, the possibilities of solutions are endless by the fellow geniuses on CrackBerry.
    12-09-11 05:35 PM
  13. palmless's Avatar

    Does PlayBook work with Android Apps? Arguably, right now 50/50 success on PB OS 2 beta, it has limitations. But with rooted PB, the possibilities of solutions are endless by the fellow geniuses on CrackBerry.
    Or in shorter words, "no". And when will it? "Soon".
    12-10-11 10:00 AM
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