[raptorstv]

Research In Motion Limited (USA): NASDAQ:RIMM quotes & news - Google Finance

RIM shares sink on outlook as Apple climbs on iPad 2 - The Globe and Mail

RIM is in big trouble! O_o

[_StephenBB81]

Poor choice of a Title

The shares didn't fall due to playbook outlook they fell on expected earnings per share, outlook being lower, than previously expected, and the earnings per share relate to the high R&D spending for the Playbook, and the next crop of phones, as well as the fact that the Smartphone market is being bastardized with an influx of cheap headsets made by HTC/Samsung/Motorola, since they don't need to pay for the software development they are lowering the headset costs, to reduce margins ( happens in many industries )

[iN8ter]

You're being disingenuous to the Android manufacturers.

Those high end Android phones with twice the hardware prowess in them cost the same as a Torch or Bold, but offer much more. There is at least one excellent android phone on every carrier here. No one is forcing anyone to get a phone with bad build quality and/or ridiculous software issues. ****, you don't even have to use Android if you don't want to. People are getting them for a reason, but cost isn't that reason, because Curve 3Gs cost the same as "cheap" android phones and Bolds cost the same as high end Android phones.

IMO, the price RIM charges for its phones is becomming more and more unacceptable for more and more people as technology advances. Their OS has become a relic and all of their traditional advantages (Email and Messaging, and and Enterprise Functionality/Security is in motion at the moment) are being Neutralized or Leapfrogged by other platforms. Lack of developer support is also killing them, and their move to support Android apps will help BB users, but doesn't really show them as being confident in their own platform.

Where RIM is being assaulted is in the corporate markets as Android/iOS handsets gain more/better enterprise functionality, in emerging markets where Android manufacturers are being very agressive with mid-range devices for the same price but with twice the functionality of a Blackberry, and of course in the minds of users who are expecting one device to serve all purpose - instead of a BB for work and an iPhone/Android/WP7/whatever for personal use.

Then there are Small Biz users who want to get rid of BES costs and/or BES/BESx overhead.

But to say it's just cause of the influx of "cheap handsets made by HTC/Sammy/Moto" is completely ignoring the big picture.

EDIT: As far as the Playbook is concerned. I think they dropped the ball big time. They allowed Android Manufacturers as well as Apple to beat them to the market, and the hype they generated about the playbook only turned into despair for lots of potential users because of the lack of a release date, product status, etc. for such a long time.

Being "late" to the market really hampered the profits and number of units they could have sold. I have no doubt it will sell at least decently in the corporate sector, but I think they dropped the ball as far as consumers are concerned. Lots of Tech Heads buy on impulse (they see something that looks great, and get it, and think later :P ). Being late not only meant disappointing your fan base, but missing lots of sales as well.

[drjay868]

You're being disingenuous to the Android manufacturers.

Those high end Android phones with twice the hardware prowess in them cost the same as a Torch or Bold, but offer much more.

Where RIM is being assaulted is in the corporate markets as Android/iOS handsets gain more/better enterprise functionality, in emerging markets where Android manufacturers are being very agressive with mid-range devices for the same price but with twice the functionality of a Blackberry, and of course in the minds of users who are expecting one device to serve all purpose - instead of a BB for work and an iPhone for home.

Then there are SB users who want to get rid of BES costs and/or BES/BESx overhead.

But to say it's just cause of the influx of "cheap handsets made by HTC/Sammy/Moto" is completely ignoring the big picture.

Like what?

What can Android do that BB cannot? Stock OS, no apps. What are the rest of us missing out on? What is that "twice the functionality?" The only thing that comes to mind for me is mobile hotspot, although that is supposed to be coming to the next line of BBs in the summer.

[drjay868]

Looks like I got to your post before you could edit it...

[mjth61]

Whatever, They still got Whooped and if Kodak wins they will get Whooped again.
RIMM has had it's head up it's behind for a long time as the competitors eat more and more of their lunch. If anyone thinks the Playbook is even a contender to compete with Apple or Android they got their head up their behind also.

Read:

Lukewarm Reaction To Playbook Could Force Drastic Measures For Rim | mocoNews

[iN8ter]

Like what?

What can Android do that BB cannot? Stock OS, no apps. What are the rest of us missing out on? What is that "twice the functionality?" The only thing that comes to mind for me is mobile hotspot, although that is supposed to be coming to the next line of BBs in the summer.

Android has native ActiveSync support, BBOS does not. Andorid supports Flash 10.2 and Air. BBOS does not. Android has a full HTML browser, BBOS does not.

There is more. I'm not gonna go further, since you seem to think there is nothing BBOS can do, when there is much to mention :P

And yes, like I said in another thread. I tend to post-proofread-edit instead of previewing. I tend to edit my posts a lot :P

EDIT: Blackberries could tether over USB and I believe over Bluetooth (I know Windows Mobile can), and since you can get a tiny USB BT dongle from Wal-Mart for $20 WiFi HotSpot was never really a big issue. Most people don't use a phone to tether multiple devices, anyways. I certainly don't want my friends streaming netflix and capping my data limit...

[iN8ter]

Whatever, They still got Whooped and if Kodak wins they will get Whooped again.
RIMM has had it's head up it's behind for a long time as the competitors eat more and more of their lunch. If anyone thinks the Playbook is even a contender to compete with Apple or Android they got their head up their behind also.

Read:

Lukewarm Reaction To Playbook Could Force Drastic Measures For Rim | mocoNews

That article was linked in another thread. I think it makes a lot of sense, actually. After reading the entire thing, I don't understand why people in that other thread are complaining about it...

[drjay868]

Android has native ActiveSync support, BBOS does not. Andorid supports Flash 10.2 and Air. BBOS does not. Android has a full HTML browser, BBOS does not.

There is more. I'm not gonna go further, since you seem to think there is nothing BBOS can do, when there is much to mention :P

And yes, like I said in another thread. I tend to post-proofread-edit instead of previewing. I tend to edit my posts a lot :P

Whoa. Calm down there firecracker.

It was not me defending BBOS at all. I asked a serious question. What can Andriod do that BBOS cannot. I honestly did not know about ActiveSync (don't even really know what it is) or fulll HTML vs BBs HTML. Simply forgot about Flash b/c I've been hearing how the Xoom wasn't going to have it until a software update was available. But now it is. But its not, its just an update to get ready for Flash. But it is if you get it from here.... blah blah blah.

And I edit a lot too... not bashing you for it. Just noticed that after I got done putting up my question your post looked a lot different in the thread than it did in me quoting you. Thought it was kinda funny.

[missing_K-W]

Last time I checked enterprise and enterprise content providers were thrilled and excited!

Every forum or blog post I visit on the net have an abundance of consumers thrilled at the prospects of PB and as well I was rather shocked at how many have pre-ordered

Fact is...PB is gonna be a huge sucsess...enterprise knows it....consumers know it, and RIM knows that

I have yet to in recent memory see the sheer volume of massive developer and content support for a new product launch...

Enterpprise devs are raving....eUnity and SAP hold the PB in high esteem...

Trade shows have showed a massive interest and an over all suprising interst.....people who use it just love it!

Enterprise are holding off on tablet purchases in favor of PB

PB is going to be a huge sucsess....those that matter in industry are well aware of that....

Watch this guys reaction to the PB...this persons opinion matters...others don't period!

YouTube - SAP Mobile Analytics Interview on Fox Business News
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[_StephenBB81]

You're being disingenuous to the Android manufacturers.
l.

You are just looking for an Argument

Please go look at the Margins of each of the manufacturers and come back on your high horse, I am saying NOTHING about the quality of the devices, I am talking everything about the margins said devices bring the the distribution market.

So thanks for your drivel.

[Intosh]

The PB will only be available half-way in the quarter so...

I checked your post history to figure out whether or not you intentionally spin this negatively and sure enough, the post history tells me you're just another (Canadian!) Apple fanboy coming in the PB forum section to troll. Canadian trolling a Canadian company to re-affirm his fanboyism towards another company. LOL That's pathetic.

[drjay868]

EDIT: Blackberries could tether over USB and I believe over Bluetooth (I know Windows Mobile can), and since you can get a tiny USB BT dongle from Wal-Mart for $20 WiFi HotSpot was never really a big issue. Most people don't use a phone to tether multiple devices, anyways. I certainly don't want my friends streaming netflix and capping my data limit...

HA HA... I'll be damned if my cheap-arse friends are gonna mooch data off of me too! Get your own data plan! LOL

[grover5]

You are just looking for an Argument

Please go look at the Margins of each of the manufacturers and come back on your high horse, I am saying NOTHING about the quality of the devices, I am talking everything about the margins said devices bring the the distribution market.

So thanks for your drivel.

No doubt. Seemed like that rant had been building for a long time.

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[Intosh]

You are just looking for an Argument

Please go look at the Margins of each of the manufacturers and come back on your high horse, I am saying NOTHING about the quality of the devices, I am talking everything about the margins said devices bring the the distribution market.

So thanks for your drivel.

The Moto Atrix was supposedly the mother of all Android device when unvealed at CES. The tech press gave it the "best smartphone of CES". Hardware prowess, high-end and everything.

But the good old Torch still outsold it at AT&T as we speak. And in Canada, they are already doing 100$ off promotion for the Atrix one week after initial launch!

[lnichols]

EDIT: As far as the Playbook is concerned. I think they dropped the ball big time. They allowed Android Manufacturers as well as Apple to beat them to the market, and the hype they generated about the playbook only turned into despair for lots of potential users because of the lack of a release date, product status, etc. for such a long time.

Being "late" to the market really hampered the profits and number of units they could have sold. I have no doubt it will sell at least decently in the corporate sector, but I think they dropped the ball as far as consumers are concerned. Lots of Tech Heads buy on impulse (they see something that looks great, and get it, and think later :P ). Being late not only meant disappointing your fan base, but missing lots of sales as well.

I would venture to say that a large amount of the iPad2 sales so far are to iPad1 owners, and most of those are probably the Apple devotees. There is a lot of iPad1's showing up on eBay and Craigslist. As far as Android manufacturers the only one that has beat them to the market is Motorola, and they released a half finished product with things that won't fully work till future release. Will love to see how many Xoom's were sold after one quarter. There are already some rumors floating around that Motorola is rethinking the Tablet market altogether. The first Galaxy Tab was kind of a bust. Everybody is severely late to the game compared to Apple. RIM should have gotten the thing out in March, but since Apple doesn't have mass quantities available now, and actually have 5 week shortages I don't see RIM being hurt by their timing too much.

[_StephenBB81]

The Moto Atrix was supposedly the mother of all Android device when unvealed at CES. The tech press gave it the "best smartphone of CES". Hardware prowess, high-end and everything.

But the good old Torch still outsold it at AT&T as we speak. And in Canada, they are already doing 100$ off promotion for the Atrix one week after initial launch!

That is all Consumer stuff.
Motorola isn't issuing $100 off promotions, Motorola was able to sell the device at a lower pricepoint allowing the channel partners to discount as needed.

I'll admit I really did check out the Atrix, it does exactly what I think RIM needs to do and make it a dock into a laptop for the corporate environment,

but again these little blurbs of device A or device B, and what their retail pricing is, is all only partially relevant to stock pricing, and what has caused RIM's drop in price. it is per unit cost to channel partners

[lnichols]

Last time I checked enterprise and enterprise content providers were thrilled and excited!

Every forum or blog post I visit on the net have an abundance of consumers thrilled at the prospects of PB and as well I was rather shocked at how many have pre-ordered

Fact is...PB is gonna be a huge sucsess...enterprise knows it....consumers know it, and RIM knows that

I have yet to in recent memory see the sheer volume of massive developer and content support for a new product launch...

Enterpprise devs are raving....eUnity and SAP hold the PB in high esteem...

Trade shows have showed a massive interest and an over all suprising interst.....people who use it just love it!

Enterprise are holding off on tablet purchases in favor of PB

PB is going to be a huge sucsess....those that matter in industry are well aware of that....

Watch this guys reaction to the PB...this persons opinion matters...others don't period!

YouTube - SAP Mobile Analytics Interview on Fox Business News
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

While I'm stoked for the Playbook, and want to see it do well, but SAP and eUnity and Enterprise developers are not going to be a selling point to or sell a Playbook to a single consumer . I haven't seen the huge enthusiasm from the consumer side yet, in fact I bet most consumers wouldn't even know what the **** it is because RIM has been so quiet. A lot of techies outside of Blackberry world don't know much if anything about it either. RIM needs to drop some coin on good advertising, and much better than their craptastic phone marketing!

[missing_K-W]

I would venture to say that a large amount of the iPad2 sales so far are to iPad1 owners, and most of those are probably the Apple devotees. There is a lot of iPad1's showing up on eBay and Craigslist. As far as Android manufacturers the only one that has beat them to the market is Motorola, and they released a half finished product with things that won't fully work till future release. Will love to see how many Xoom's were sold after one quarter. There are already some rumors floating around that Motorola is rethinking the Tablet market altogether. The first Galaxy Tab was kind of a bust. Everybody is severely late to the game compared to Apple. RIM should have gotten the thing out in March, but since Apple doesn't have mass quantities available now, and actually have 5 week shortages I don't see RIM being hurt by their timing too much.

This has much less to do with being late as the competion providing a lousy product to be introduced to market!

Android 2.3 on tabs is pathetic...however 2.3 apps on a tablet will be useful..but the 2.3 experience is horrible

Honeycomb 3.0 is many months away from being anywhere considered a positive experience on a tablet..

Google will keep honeycomb closed for many months as there is a tonne of engineering to be done before it can be considered a decent product!

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[missing_K-W]

While I'm stoked for the Playbook, and want to see it do well, but SAP and eUnity and Enterprise developers are not going to be a selling point to or sell a Playbook to a single consumer . I haven't seen the huge enthusiasm from the consumer side yet, in fact I bet most consumers wouldn't even know what the **** it is because RIM has been so quiet. A lot of techies outside of Blackberry world don't know much if anything about it either. RIM needs to drop some coin on good advertising, and much better than their craptastic phone marketing!

Their interest solidifies a longevity and a security in the market place as the product can affirm a longer position to catch consumers interest on a mainstream level...

With enterprise interest and purchases...it allows for a long term position in the market and a very broad range of time for RIM to obtain market share. That alone puts them in a position no other manufacturer right now has other then Apple.

There are 60 million + bb users....a 4% absorbtion rate through the year would be considered a sucsess...

As far as a consumer standpoint is considered...PB will have universal dev reach...with that it is impossible to contest they will at some point have the best content..sdk's are to sophisticated to not have the best software supported on the platform which will outclass the competition.....

PB is the only platform on earth with universal reach in all facets of life...if there is small interest in some areas of the market place it will blance as far as a collective whole.

Ios,windows &google have limited market reach= none universal

QNX extends to fill a need in every market place on earth and beyond=universal reach

Ios,windows &google have limited sdks and limited dev commumity reach as far as platform potential=none universal

QNX supports every run time and has a means of supporting ever dev community on earth=universal reach

Now that we are aware it has universal reach...you tell me how much interest it has.....

As far as economies of scale.....PB can penetrate all markets on earth.....

Strong enterprise adoption is a given....and given the sheer reach...it is foolish to believe it will not have at least a medium consumer interest!

PB EQUALS the ONLY MOBILE COMPUTER on PLANET EARTH that accomodates 100% of the market place.....answer me if it will or will not become a sucsess!!!!!!!!!

What most fools fail to realize...is they are essentialy affirming a footprint as they did in 2000 with a smartphone as they are now repeating that in 2011 in the form of a MOBILE COMPUTER..........sorry to alarm some of you....but history is repeating itself...better buy stock!!!that's my advice
Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[allengeorge]

I thought that the moconews article was, for the most part, spot on. I live and work in a very tech-centric region, and no one uses, talks about, or develops for the BlackBerry. To make a mobile app it's always IOS first, followed by Android. Developers just aren't excited by the BlackBerry: it's dated, the developer tools were Windows-only until recently, the documentation and API and tooling made it hard to get an app out to market quickly - I could go on and on. That, coupled with the fact that the OS simply doesn't look or feel pretty or cohesive...well...no wonder devs were giving it a pass.

Analysts and bloggers would stop dumping on RIM if the products they were putting out looked and felt world-class, but there's little evidence of that yet. The Playbook is a good move, but it's not a game changer. To beat the iPad - and yes, the iPad is it's competition - you have to be not just equivalent or slightly better, but substantially better. And don't get me started on their phone lineup

[BBThemes]

While I'm stoked for the Playbook, and want to see it do well, but SAP and eUnity and Enterprise developers are not going to be a selling point to or sell a Playbook to a single consumer .

in reality its the enterprise market that matters. enterprise customers dont make single purchases like the consumer, they make purchases in tens of thousands. thats where the real tablet war is for 2011, enterprise.

there are many many analysts that are outwardly saying enterprise is where it really matters, this is why RIM have been going for `professional grade` and stuff. sure, they`d love your $500, but they really love the enterprise`s $5m per 10,000.

edit: also what will it say for QNX if it runs android faster than android phones? that`ll be something to keep an eye on

[missing_K-W]

I thought that the moconews article was, for the most part, spot on. I live and work in a very tech-centric region, and no one uses, talks about, or develops for the BlackBerry. To make a mobile app it's always IOS first, followed by Android. Developers just aren't excited by the BlackBerry: it's dated, the developer tools were Windows-only until recently, the documentation and API and tooling made it hard to get an app out to market quickly - I could go on and on. That, coupled with the fact that the OS simply doesn't look or feel pretty or cohesive...well...no wonder devs were giving it a pass.

Analysts and bloggers would stop dumping on RIM if the products they were putting out looked and felt world-class, but there's little evidence of that yet. The Playbook is a good move, but it's not a game changer. To beat the iPad - and yes, the iPad is it's competition - you have to be not just equivalent or slightly better, but substantially better. And don't get me started on their phone lineup

Read my post above yours....replace bbos for QNX....and substitute my references to playbook and place QNX hh's in place of...

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[missing_K-W]

I thought that the moconews article was, for the most part, spot on. I live and work in a very tech-centric region, and no one uses, talks about, or develops for the BlackBerry. To make a mobile app it's always IOS first, followed by Android. Developers just aren't excited by the BlackBerry: it's dated, the developer tools were Windows-only until recently, the documentation and API and tooling made it hard to get an app out to market quickly - I could go on and on. That, coupled with the fact that the OS simply doesn't look or feel pretty or cohesive...well...no wonder devs were giving it a pass.

Analysts and bloggers would stop dumping on RIM if the products they were putting out looked and felt world-class, but there's little evidence of that yet. The Playbook is a good move, but it's not a game changer. To beat the iPad - and yes, the iPad is it's competition - you have to be not just equivalent or slightly better, but substantially better. And don't get me started on their phone lineup

Read my post above yours....replace bbos for QNX....and substitute my references to playbook and place QNX hh's in place of... Then enter 2012 landscape

Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com

[anon(728548)]

Research In Motion Limited (USA): NASDAQ:RIMM quotes & news - Google Finance

RIM shares sink on outlook as Apple climbs on iPad 2 - The Globe and Mail

RIM is in big trouble! O_o

Haha you're a moron. Playbook outlook didn't make rimm stock fall, deRussett has perfectly outlined what happened [I] because he actually did his research [\I]