02-10-13 02:14 PM
115 1234 ...
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  1. peter9477's Avatar
    You know something else that really bugs me? Sales! Darn vendors ripping people off by putting a product on sale for a while, and neither refunding the higher price that all previous purchasers paid, nor keeping the price that low for all future purchasers. Really bugs me.

    You know that Battery Guru guy? He had a sale on over Christmas, half price. A few hundred people bought the app at only $0.99, and right now everyone else has to pay $1.99 (or their local equivalent, per RIM's tiered pricing system). How's that "fair"?!?!

    Another thing that's "unfair" is how RIM's tiered pricing lets people in Nigeria (for example) pay less than currency exchange rates would suggest, just because their purchasing power is so much less there. The only thing that does is increase the number of sales made there, thus improving the overall revenue stream for both RIM and the vendors. Where's the sense in that?

    It's just disgusting that this happens, because those Nigerians are effectively paying less than the people in the UK, for the same thing. How unfair is that?! I mean, sure, the standard of living may be a tad lower, but shouldn't they have to pay precisely the same amount as whatever the fairly abstract currency exchange rates would mandate, rather than some amount that RIM has calculated will maximize revenue in that region and which happens to result in a lower price for them?

    I mean, it's only fair that international exchange rates should be used to calculate all prices for all products in all regions of the world without any room for variation from other considerations, right?
    alnamvet68 likes this.
    02-26-12 02:21 PM
  2. BerryClever's Avatar
    I have no idea where you are from, so.... Just sounded like a funny phrase/phrases to me.

    Sorry if I offended, it just made me giggle to think of the French (for example) reading that Europe is English speaking.

    There isn't an App World for the whole of Europe - hmm - wonder how many different European App Worlds there are......
    I edited the last part off, I took differently. Hopefully I clarified my first post a bit better in that I was just meaning the specific English speaking countries within Europe (or predominately English speaking).

    The vendor sets a price tier (not a specific price) and also can optionally restrict availability to certain countries. Availability for some countries may be mandated by governmental regulation - a vendor cannot override these restrictions.

    The vendor's share of the proceeds is defined as 70% of the price defined for the tier. For example, my app (English only) is available everywhere. It sells in tiier1-.99USD. This tier defines a price in Canada as .99 CAD, in Columbia as .75 USD and in Romania as .75 Euros.

    Vendors have nothing to do with the actual prices charged in App World - RIM has some sort of mysterious formula determining prices - we only select a tier. My share is always 70% of the prices defined for a tier, whatever it is, converted to USD at the current exchange rate.
    With is bug, as a developer, are you losing money? You sell your app for $.99 USD, it is suppose to be .75 Euros but RIM charges .99 Euros... you would be getting 70% of .75 Euros, not the 70% of the mis priced .99? The reason I ask is because RIM has to play nice to developers. I am sure something like this is not going to cost most developers much, and I am sure it is a bug, but this is something RIM may want to fix ASAP. I have seen media rip apart non-Apple companies for less (and non-Microsoft companies before Apple was the trend)
    02-26-12 03:21 PM
  3. sam_b77's Avatar
    Is a straight conversion from USD to Indian Rupees in India. No ripping off here.
    convenor likes this.
    02-26-12 03:47 PM
  4. KRS62's Avatar
    The cost of doing business is different in every country. Therefore companies will have to adjust their price in each country. Blame your government, not a company that is providing you with business tools and entertainment. Heck, someone has to pay your healthcare!

    KRS
    02-26-12 04:17 PM
  5. BuzzStarField's Avatar
    With is bug, as a developer, are you losing money? You sell your app for $.99 USD, it is suppose to be .75 Euros but RIM charges .99 Euros... you would be getting 70% of .75 Euros, not the 70% of the mis priced .99? The reason I ask is because RIM has to play nice to developers. I am sure something like this is not going to cost most developers much, and I am sure it is a bug, but this is something RIM may want to fix ASAP. I have seen media rip apart non-Apple companies for less (and non-Microsoft companies before Apple was the trend)
    As I said before, it is not a bug. Whatever RIM collects, I get 70%. RIM's policy is clearly understood by vendors and there is no misunderstanding. It's all clear and above-board. No fix is needed because the system works as advertised. The price differentials are due to RIM's pricing policy and is not related in any way to currency exchange rates. Consumers may not like it (and I can't say that I blame them) but developers are not being mistreated.

    To repeat, I don't sell my app for $.99 USD, What I have done is priced my app in the lowest pricing tier. If I look at the info table available in the Vendors' portal, I can see entries for all the countries and the price that will be charged for my app in local currencies. When I look at my reports, I get detailed reports for each sale and the amount charged in local currency.
    02-26-12 05:18 PM
  6. VanCity778's Avatar
    I could almost understand it if RIM were an American company, as American companies can be a little bit US-centric (understandable I suppose), but for goodness sake, they're a Canadian company and should know better.

    As much as I want to love RIM I am finding it harder and harder to do so, when they behave like this.
    I disagree with that comment. RIM is not just a Canadian company. They are a Global company. We live in a globalized world. Saying just because they are a Canadian company they should know better than an American one is ignorant.

    I'm sure there is a reason why the prices are the way they are. RIM may be founded by a couple of Canucks but they are a global business.
    BerryClever likes this.
    02-26-12 05:27 PM
  7. adiafzal's Avatar
    No ripping here in Malaysia. Straight conversion from USD.
    02-26-12 05:37 PM
  8. BearSnout's Avatar
    All this, as bad as it is, is hardly exclusive to RIM. Go on Amazon and many many other sites and you'll see everybody is doing the same thing. And yes, it's awful... but hardly a stick to bash RIM with... bash the industry.
    BuzzStarField likes this.
    02-26-12 05:54 PM
  9. rich_a's Avatar
    The cost of doing business is different in every country. Therefore companies will have to adjust their price in each country. Blame your government, not a company that is providing you with business tools and entertainment. Heck, someone has to pay your healthcare!
    'Blame your government'? Are you high? How come the other players in the appspace seem to have better pricing mechanisms for their customers?

    In the UK, Itunes charges a slight bit more than a dollar, 69 pence, for each 99c app. I think the extra few pence cost is reasonable when you consider the extra taxes. Android charges you either in your currency or the developers currency, depending on what the developer has decided to charge. In both stores you never feel like you're being ripped off.

    Make no mistake, the current appworld charging mechanism harms sales over here in the UK as the prices for apps are too high and people will either not buy or acquire their apps through the torrent sites. I've purchased most of my apps though US proxies, and if RIM ever stop me purchasing apps that way then I'll probably not buy any more.
    esk369 likes this.
    02-26-12 06:02 PM
  10. YorkieRay's Avatar
    I live in the UK and I have recently returned from the Caribbean. I too was astonished to see that the apps on App World were priced the same amount in USD as they had been in GBP. I had taken my newly bought PB with me, so I took the opportunity to buy some apps at the reduced prices for the PB and for my phone.
    This is no bug at all, it is purely due to the laziness of RIM to have a proper pricing structure for their international markets. The UK is one of their strongest markets, yet the apps are just too expensive here. We just want to be able to pay a price closer to that paid in the US and Canada.
    seamonky likes this.
    02-26-12 06:19 PM
  11. howarmat's Avatar
    All this, as bad as it is, is hardly exclusive to RIM. Go on Amazon and many many other sites and you'll see everybody is doing the same thing. And yes, it's awful... but hardly a stick to bash RIM with... bash the industry.
    amazon does not keep the same pricing across the board. They have completely independent pricing. I order stuff from amazon UK all the time.
    02-26-12 06:43 PM
  12. fernandez21's Avatar
    Don't the app developers determine the price?
    02-26-12 06:58 PM
  13. peter9477's Avatar
    Don't the app developers determine the price?
    BuzzStarField's post from earlier in this thread should answer that for you. It's not as simple as "we pick the price", but the answer is effectively yes: http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post7179295
    BuzzStarField likes this.
    02-26-12 09:46 PM
  14. yorkshireman2's Avatar

    Make no mistake, the current appworld charging mechanism harms sales over here in the UK as the prices for apps are too high and people will either not buy or acquire their apps through the torrent sites. I've purchased most of my apps though US proxies, and if RIM ever stop me purchasing apps that way then I'll probably not buy any more.
    Here, here!

    I think some people replying to this thread just don't understand basic economics. We are not STUPID in the UK. Unlike some people who have posted on this thread we do understand how conversion rates work and we do (as International citizens of the world) understand that simply replacing the $ symbol with the or Euro symbol is RUBBISH.

    This isn't down to some kind of clever pricing decision by RIM or that Europeans are richer than Nigerians and Americans and therefore we should pay more for the same thing (that is seriously ignorant), or a clever macro or micro economic pricing policy driven by Governments!

    It is none of these things.

    It is simply totally ignorant on the part of RIM and it is massively offensive to a lot of people when they realize they are getting RIPPED OFF.

    If Apple (who I am not a big fan of) can understand that $1 converts to about 0.69 then I can't see why RIM can't understand it too.

    Surely you don't have to be a genius to realize that Apple's App Store is the most successful for a reason and part of that reason is that they have got the prices spot on.

    I can tell you now, if Apple were charging 1 for a $1 app there would be a massive outcry over here in the UK.

    The reason there isn't the same outcry about Blackberry App World is because Blackberry have made such a mess of it (e.g. stupid pricing) that the number of apps sold per user (in comparison to Apple) is negligible.
    the-elf and Banco like this.
    02-27-12 07:19 AM
  15. yorkshireman2's Avatar
    It's just disgusting that this happens, because those Nigerians are effectively paying less than the people in the UK, for the same thing. How unfair is that?! I mean, sure, the standard of living may be a tad lower, but shouldn't they have to pay precisely the same amount as whatever the fairly abstract currency exchange rates would mandate, rather than some amount that RIM has calculated will maximize revenue in that region and which happens to result in a lower price for them?

    I mean, it's only fair that international exchange rates should be used to calculate all prices for all products in all regions of the world without any room for variation from other considerations, right?
    That is seriously offensive on so many levels.

    The point being made at the start of this thread was why is there roughly a 30%+ difference in the price of apps between the UK and the US, i.e. two of the world's leading economies and two major market places for RIM, and that this seemed to be down to nothing more than changing a currency symbol.

    i.e. is it right that a $1 product costs 1 in the UK or 1 euro in Europe.

    You mentioning an African country (why do American's always use African countries as an example of poverty) and go on about how the poor people there (which is pretty much what you are saying) can't afford to pay the same as us rich Western countries, which begs the question as to whether the price in the US is so cheap because American's can't afford to pay as much as British people or Europeans.

    What utter rubbish!

    I realize America has had a hard time over the last few years, but surely things can't be that bad
    crazeee4u and the-elf like this.
    02-27-12 07:27 AM
  16. BBMak's Avatar
    Actually, for most apps, it shows the amount in the different currency but when u do the purchase, it charges - more or less- the accurate conversion from the US$
    02-27-12 07:30 AM
  17. yorkshireman2's Avatar
    Actually, for most apps, it shows the amount in the different currency but when u do the purchase, it charges - more or less- the accurate conversion from the US$
    That's not how it works in the UK or Europe. The prices ARE set differently. It doesn't do any conversion at all.
    09-15-12 08:08 AM
  18. yorkshireman2's Avatar
    Months go by and RIM still haven't sorted out their UK prices. We're STILL getting ripped off.

    RIM could do with all the friends they can get at the moment and offending loyal UK users is NOT the way to win friends and influence people.

    I've e-mailed RIM about this on numerous occasions, as I seriously thinking it is damaging them in the UK, and yet my comments fall on deaf ears.

    As someone else rightly pointed out, if the evil Apple empire can figure out that $1 is roughly 0.69 then surely RIM can do the maths to.

    To make it even more annoying they don't even just change the currency symbol they actually round it upwards so a $9.99 app is 10 and and a $19.99 app is 20.

    Eventually this is going to leak into the UK press and RIM can kiss goodbye to a lot more users as British people are sick and tired of rip-off prices due to people not knowing how to work out that it costs $1.62 to buy 1.

    So a $9.99 app should be 6.10 or about 7.00 including tax and NOT 10.00.
    09-15-12 08:15 AM
  19. backfire101's Avatar
    I am sorry to hear that the UK residents are being ripped off, but in my country I pay 0,75 euro for an app that is 1 us dollar. That is the normal rate, so no rip off here. And I live not that far from the UK, since I am Dutch.
    09-15-12 08:30 AM
  20. yorkshireman2's Avatar
    I am sorry to hear that the UK residents are being ripped off, but in my country I pay 0,75 euro for an app that is 1 us dollar. That is the normal rate, so no rip off here. And I live not that far from the UK, since I am Dutch.
    You are right my friend. I was in Brugge only the other week and noticed the same thing myself.

    Alas, that just makes it all the worse, as RIM seem to be able to correctly convert the US$ into Euros and yet can't do the same for pounds.

    It's amazing the a $1.00 app is 0.75 euros and yet is 1. It just doesn't make any sense.

    I've been a loyal Blackberry user for many years, but this really does leave a bad taste in my mouth.
    09-15-12 08:43 AM
  21. esk369's Avatar
    Maybe you guys could have like a Euro tea party and dump all the playbooks in the harbor.JBB.
    Serously its not fun to get ripped off equal pricing for all
    yorkshireman2 likes this.
    09-15-12 08:56 AM
  22. hkkelvinlee's Avatar
    I think the price difference is indeed annoying but, hey, look at the bright side. Playbooks 65G are selling at Currys/PC World UK at 129!! Cheaper than quite lots of places stateside.

    I just picked up another one (3rd PB in family) and talked a friend into buying two. After tax refund (we traveling there for biz), it ends up like 119 a piece.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9800 using Tapatalk
    09-15-12 09:28 AM
  23. Fmar's Avatar
    If you want to talk this kind of 'rip off', let's start with Body Shop.

    At the Body Shop in FRA, I spent 18 on a tube of mascara. Imagine how furious I was when I got back to Canada and saw the SAME tube of mascara was $18. At that time, the to CAD was $1.70. Even with Canadian taxes on the $18, I paid nearly $10 MORE, just from buying at a European Body Shop.

    There are MANY companies that do this, and calling RIM names aren't going to change the fact that it's pretty commonplace.
    Beg to differ with your view... apps sold are one and zeros coming from the same server or a mirror regardless of where you are in the world. Selling to me in Australia, the OP in the UK or someone in the US makes arguably zero difference to the price of the app.

    Each country has taxes, and I would argue that there is not a 33% higher rate of tax in the UK on virtual/software goods than there is in the US.

    However bricks and mortar stores selling real goods will deal with prices on shipping bulk to stores from a single supplier, if made locally to same recipe there would be different supply line prices, wage expectations are different geographically...

    Laws will be made in the EU soon enough to deal with this. The rest of the world can then follow... but know that Australia has already started at a parliament level to stop such practices.

    It is anti-competitive and dishonest trading by RIM. Saying other companies do it, so it must be ok to support RIM is like saying my mate is a thief, but he is still my mate because I hear about other thieves all the time...

    Supporting RIM in this is just normalising shallow immoral behavior.
    yorkshireman2 and MrNutt like this.
    09-15-12 09:35 AM
  24. rich_a's Avatar
    Supporting RIM in this is just normalising shallow immoral behavior.
    I agree so much, it hurts!

    Once again: Apple, Amazon and Google manage to charge fair prices (a fair price, in my opinion, is a few pence either side of the US selling price) to UK buyers of apps, RIM doesn't. The UK is, supposedly, an important market for RIM. If they continue pricing apps so stupidly over here it's going to cost them device and app sales.
    yorkshireman2 and MrNutt like this.
    09-15-12 03:46 PM
  25. yorkshireman2's Avatar
    Laws will be made in the EU soon enough to deal with this. The rest of the world can then follow... but know that Australia has already started at a parliament level to stop such practices.

    It is anti-competitive and dishonest trading by RIM. Saying other companies do it, so it must be ok to support RIM is like saying my mate is a thief, but he is still my mate because I hear about other thieves all the time...

    Supporting RIM in this is just normalising shallow immoral behavior.
    Here, here!

    It just seems such a shame that laws need to be introduced to stop this kind of unethical, or as you so rightly put it, 'immoral behaviour'.

    Even though I have been a massive Blackberry fan for years, it worries me that the company I am supporting thinks so little of me that they are willing to overcharge me, and all my fellow country men, by over 30% even after taking taxes into account.

    IMHO RIM should be painting itself as the good guy. That way they can win friends and influence people. Charging 10 for a $9.99 app IS immoral in this global world we live in.

    Wake up RIM. We're NOT stupid.
    esk369 and MrNutt like this.
    09-16-12 04:27 PM
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