View Poll Results: Was RIM right to release an incomplete PlayBook in April 2011?

Voters
233. You may not vote on this poll
  • It was a good move by RIM to release a somewhat incomplete PlayBook in April 2011.

    101 43.35%
  • RIM should have released the PlayBook when the upcoming features of OS2 were done (February 2012).

    132 56.65%
01-17-12 08:20 PM
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  1. bounce007's Avatar
    Well now that CES is over and we have seen some of the features OS2 will bring, I earnestly believe we will see a more 'complete' PlayBook. To me, it now seems that RIM's introduction of the PlayBook last April was only to get a foothold in the (at that time) ever growing and supersaturated tablet market.

    I wonder what the consequences would have been if RIM waited 'til February 2012 to release the PlayBook when all the features in the upcoming OS2 would have been completed... Performance and ability reviews would indubitably be better but I am inclined to think that a February 2012 introduction would have been too late.

    So what are your thoughts? From a business perspective, was RIM right to release what many of us deemed an incomplete tablet just to get a foothold in the competitive market? Or should RIM have waited on completion of the OS2 features and released the PlayBook then?
    01-15-12 11:52 AM
  2. kennyliu's Avatar
    Yes, as they will have had at least 10 months to test the "new" OS before fully utilizing it on BB10 phones.

    Besides, if they waited 'till February 2012, they wouldn't be able to sell as many Playbooks as the hardware would be viewed as outdated by then. That's assuming we are talking about the Playbook as it currently is.
    Last edited by kennyliu; 01-15-12 at 12:05 PM.
    01-15-12 11:58 AM
  3. hpjrt's Avatar
    It's moot. They did release it in April 2011 ... and whether RIM was right or wrong to do so doesn't matter now. No armchair quarterbacking is going to alter the reality ... and to my way of thinking, it would solve or clarify nothing to waste time discussing what should or should not have been done last year.

    Just my 2 cents.
    blue-b, rjedge54, gschep and 5 others like this.
    01-15-12 11:59 AM
  4. _StephenBB81's Avatar
    I don't like the Poll Questions.

    Yes it was right for RIM to release the PlayBook April 2011,
    What RIM's BIG Mistake was, was they didn't release Mobile fusion until 2012, Mobile Fusion should have been announced at CES 2011, and released with the PlayBook, or at the very least shortly after. Mobile fusion is the Product RIM has been missing,
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    01-15-12 12:04 PM
  5. reinf0rce's Avatar
    I'm actually happy they released it with all those flaws. If they had been successful the first time around, they probably would have never dropped the price so low and thus I would have never gotten one. Selfish reasoning, I know.
    01-15-12 12:07 PM
  6. howarmat's Avatar
    i think you can make cases for both sides of the argument. For BB10 phones it was a good thing. For the reputation of the PB and RIM it hasnt gone as well. But if the BB10 phones do well then it will help with that.
    spike12, bpdude and sleepngbear like this.
    01-15-12 12:08 PM
  7. bounce007's Avatar
    It's moot. They did release it in April 2011 ... and whether RIM was right or wrong to do so doesn't matter now. No armchair quarterbacking is going to alter the reality ... and to my way of thinking, it would solve or clarify nothing to waste time discussing what should or should not have been done last year.

    Just my 2 cents.
    Well I agree that RIM did the right thing to release he PlayBook when they did. Nothing is wrong with discussing hypothetical situations even if it doesn't matter... and if it is a waste of time discussing my question, why did you engage in the discussion?
    01-15-12 12:08 PM
  8. MrHelyar's Avatar
    They should have kept their mouth shuts, brought only the 3 main phones out this year, put more work towards completing the PlayBook, showed it off this years CES and brought it out in February. Oh and maybe added a faster chipset in the PB to compete with the iPad2 and upcoming iPad3...
    bitek, phonejunky and jegs2 like this.
    01-15-12 12:14 PM
  9. anon(1035135)'s Avatar
    I agree that it is moot, at this point, but I also have an opinion regardless. I couldn't vote though, as I don't think they should have released it in April, but don't agree they should've waited until OS2 either. I think that hanging that 2.0 carrot over our heads is quite exciting. But, I definitely think they should've waited until this latest release (1.8.6067) before releasing it to the wolves. I think that in the long run, an "average" initial rating at best would've helped sales overall. At the very least, we (those of us that bought a PB close to release date) wouldn't have had to explain our purchase nearly as much. ha!
    01-15-12 12:17 PM
  10. bounce007's Avatar
    I'm actually happy they released it with all those flaws. If they had been successful the first time around, they probably would have never dropped the price so low and thus I would have never gotten one. Selfish reasoning, I know.
    ...and with upcoming OS2 features you definitely got a superb deal!!!
    01-15-12 12:17 PM
  11. sgt_snacks-64's Avatar
    I think the lack of features back in April 2011 was a mis-calculation on RIM's part. I wouldn't say the Operating System was "flawed" or whatnot. It was missing features, yes. But it was/is still a good Tablet. You could say the Playbook was RIM's attempt to drive phone sales with the Bridge features (This could still be true with Bridge Remote!).

    In my opinion, the Media is what knocked the Playbook down. This was not so much as to the Playbook itself, but more because it didn't live up to iOS/Android. It was compared to these competing Operating Systems and not nessecarily looked at as an individual.

    There was no Right or Wrong answer, but RIM screwed up with the Operating System in 2011. It's pretty obvious that they mis-calculated the amount of work required to implement Native E-mail etc onto the Playbook, they also wanted to ensure they got it right first time. That's understandable. There's no point getting hung up on it now, OS2 soon!

    If the Playbook was "That" bad, no one would have brought it! And the majority of people wouldn't still be here talking about it.

    You need a "Doesn't Matter/I'm indifferent" option on this poll.
    Last edited by sgt_snacks-64; 01-15-12 at 12:32 PM.
    01-15-12 12:28 PM
  12. pinkert11's Avatar
    I vote yes, apple did the same with the ipad, and iphone - release at 80% then update. It is a shame the update has taken so long, but I have enjoyed my PB from day one.
    bpdude likes this.
    01-15-12 12:38 PM
  13. 3lionsbecks's Avatar
    The problem with the initial release is it did a lot of damage to RIM's reputation and especially to the PB's reputation.

    I'm not sure if they will be able to rebound from that with the general public. An OS update may not be enough. Its a real shame they arent releasing the BB10 phones for so long because if they dropped the phones shortly after 2.0 is released it could have really created some buzz for BB.
    JeepBB, bitek and ubizmo like this.
    01-15-12 12:45 PM
  14. 3lionsbecks's Avatar
    The problem with the initial release is it did a lot of damage to RIM's reputation and especially to the PB's reputation.

    I'm not sure if they will be able to rebound from that with the general public. An OS update may not be enough. Its a real shame they arent releasing the BB10 phones for so long because if they dropped the phones shortly after 2.0 is released it could have really created some buzz for BB.
    01-15-12 12:46 PM
  15. Pearl9100's Avatar
    NO it was a bad idea to release it in 2011 without a native email, calendar, bbm, and etc. Rim needs to release finished products and then tie up the minor loose ends.

    And to the op's second question:
    Obviously, it wasn't a good business move or else they would not have had 485 million dollars in write down. Numbers speak for themselves. I don't care how you spin it, half a billion in write down on a newly launched product is terrible news. And there is a reason why the Co-CEO's are taking a 1 dollar a year salary. They obviously made bad many decisions, which includes the pb.

    And Russel, I agree all this talk is moot. We cannot change the past, but I do think that these discussions are pertinent when discussing the future of the Co-CEO's at RIM. Anyone with half a brain could see that the pb being released without native email would have been a disaster. The Co-CEO's should have known; it is their job to know. They are not doing their jobs, and shareholders should pull a mitt romney and fire them.
    1959gazza likes this.
    01-15-12 12:48 PM
  16. Barredbard's Avatar
    It appears that my position will be counter to the vox populi, but so be it. RIM made a huge mistake by releasing the Playbook when they did. Case in point: In a small law firm of 6 lawyers, my boss relies on me for advice on technical devices. There were so many tablets floating around July of last year, he was confused. He asked me which tablet he should get for everyone to increase efficiency in and out of the office. I didn't hesitate. I immediately recommended the Playbook. Mind you, back then, I still expected the release of OS 2.0 to be imminent.

    Unfortunately, I didn't consider all the things that the Playbook didn't have. The most important application that my boss wanted on a tablet was an app that permitted the ability to remote in. The Playbook didn't have one at the time, and still doesn't have a good one. He wasn't interested in a work-around. It had no apps that my companions at the office wanted. They all crowded into my office, begging me to tell my boss that I was wrong. Ultimately, when my boss found out that one couldn't even set up e-mail accounts, he returned the Playbook without consulting me, and purchased iPads for everyone. Keep in mind that I am the only one at my office who still has a Blackberry phone; most have iPhones, the rest Droids.

    This episode damaged my credibility at the office. All those apps count for something, and my office mates won't stop coming to my office and showing off legal apps on their iPads: the U.S. Constitution, several legal search databases, State Statutes and Constitutions, etc. A flash-enabled browser is simply not all that important when you have apps for everything. I ended up purchasing the Playbook with my own money. The Playbook received horrific reviews when it first came out because of the deficiencies that will be remedied by OS 2. Even the New York Times article on the Playbook - which my boss read - beat it up pretty badly. All those reviewers will not recant their initial statements. First impressions matter the most, and appearances are everything. It will take quite a bit of a campaign to reverse the negative impression that most who cared received about the Playbook.

    The Playbook may attract new customers when OS 2 arrives, but it will not make a significant dent in those members of the populace who have either already tried it and discarded it, or read about how crappy it was, and moved on. Very sad, since I believe that the Playbook has the potential to best them all.
    Last edited by Barredbard; 01-15-12 at 12:55 PM.
    rcab, Papa_Dios and Ben Bubble like this.
    01-15-12 12:52 PM
  17. kb5zht's Avatar
    I voted "yes" but boy do I make it with reservations. I only say that because RIM already showed its... um... hand.... and announced it in late 2010 like it was a near finished product that would be in consumer's hands in Q1 2011. As it was, it was nowhere near complete in Q1 and still released two weeks late.

    Had RIM not announced it, my answer would change and say we should be seeing it for the first time next month. Live and learn. I bet by now nobody expected this device to be in this incomplete of a state @ launch date + 7 months as it is.
    01-15-12 01:01 PM
  18. bounce007's Avatar
    NO it was a bad idea to release it in 2011 without a native email, calendar, bbm, and etc. Rim needs to release finished products and then tie up the minor loose ends.

    And to the op's second question:
    Obviously, it wasn't a good business move or else they would not have had 485 million dollars in write down. Numbers speak for themselves. I don't care how you spin it, half a billion in write down on a newly launched product is terrible news. And there is a reason why the Co-CEO's are taking a 1 dollar a year salary. They obviously made bad many decisions, which includes the pb.

    And Russel, I agree all this talk is moot. We cannot change the past, but I do think that these discussions are pertinent when discussing the future of the Co-CEO's at RIM. Anyone with half a brain could see that the pb being released without native email would have been a disaster. The Co-CEO's should have known; it is their job to know. They are not doing their jobs, and shareholders should pull a mitt romney and fire them.
    So should they have waited until when they completed the upcoming features to release it? How would it then fare arriving much later in a saturated market?
    01-15-12 01:01 PM
  19. bounce007's Avatar
    I voted "yes" but boy do I make it with reservations. I only say that because RIM already showed its... um... hand.... and announced it in late 2010 like it was a near finished product that would be in consumer's hands in Q1 2011. As it was, it was nowhere near complete in Q1 and still released two weeks late.

    Had RIM not announced it, my answer would change and say we should be seeing it for the first time next month. Live and learn. I bet by now nobody expected this device to be in this incomplete of a state @ launch date + 7 months as it is.
    Thanks for all the responses. Great points made. Great discussion.

    kb5zht... if it were to be launched come next month, how well do you think it would have done taking into consideration how many tablets already on the market?
    01-15-12 01:05 PM
  20. bounce007's Avatar
    It appears that my position will be counter to the vox populi, but so be it. RIM made a huge mistake by releasing the Playbook when they did. Case in point: In a small law firm of 6 lawyers, my boss relies on me for advice on technical devices. There were so many tablets floating around July of last year, he was confused. He asked me which tablet he should get for everyone to increase efficiency in and out of the office. I didn't hesitate. I immediately recommended the Playbook. Mind you, back then, I still expected the release of OS 2.0 to be imminent.

    Unfortunately, I didn't consider all the things that the Playbook didn't have. The most important application that my boss wanted on a tablet was an app that permitted the ability to remote in. The Playbook didn't have one at the time, and still doesn't have a good one. He wasn't interested in a work-around. It had no apps that my companions at the office wanted. They all crowded into my office, begging me to tell my boss that I was wrong. Ultimately, when my boss found out that one couldn't even set up e-mail accounts, he returned the Playbook without consulting me, and purchased iPads for everyone. Keep in mind that I am the only one at my office who still has a Blackberry phone; most have iPhones, the rest Droids.

    This episode damaged my credibility at the office. All those apps count for something, and my office mates won't stop coming to my office and showing off legal apps on their iPads: the U.S. Constitution, several legal search databases, State Statutes and Constitutions, etc. A flash-enabled browser is simply not all that important when you have apps for everything. I ended up purchasing the Playbook with my own money. The Playbook received horrific reviews when it first came out because of the deficiencies that will be remedied by OS 2. Even the New York Times article on the Playbook - which my boss read - beat it up pretty badly. All those reviewers will not recant their initial statements. First impressions matter the most, and appearances are everything. It will take quite a bit of a campaign to reverse the negative impression that most who cared received about the Playbook.

    The Playbook may attract new customers when OS 2 arrives, but it will not make a significant dent in those members of the populace who have either already tried it and discarded it, or read about how crappy it was, and moved on. Very sad, since I believe that the Playbook has the potential to best them all.
    I am sorry that your recommendations of the PlayBook damaged your credibility but I would not have recommended the PlayBook to anyone without a thorough warning. I even said this in a post some time ago. You really shouldn't have put your hopes in RIM to release OS2 so soon and even if they did the PlayBook's app base would still not compete with it's competition. So you erred there.

    You said that the PlayBook received 'horrific' reviews and this implies that these 'horrific' reviews were unanimous... Not true. Depending on where you read you will notice that the PlayBook did receive great reviews some places.

    This is a discussion none the less and I appreciate and respect your response.
    Last edited by bounce007; 01-15-12 at 02:30 PM.
    BERaddict likes this.
    01-15-12 01:19 PM
  21. brox1bear's Avatar
    I think the release of the playbook wasn't early as I have enjoyed it from it's launch and I use it every day for showing clients video's and pictures of our work, which failed on my android tablet which was painfully slow, my only complaint is the price you can pick one up for now , as an early adopter of the playbook paying 499.99 and not buying the ipad 5c cheaper at the time. I just checked the shop for the latest price and 64gb playbook is 315 so will rim reward early adopters of the playbook?
    01-15-12 01:22 PM
  22. bbfan1040's Avatar
    RIMM was apparently aiming to compete with Apple - without apps.
    Many management errors!

    I am so thankful I have been able to enjoy available, increasing features on a terrific hardware product. I have been stuck places with wasted time. That has let me learn & use Playbook for hundreds of hours! Tether has been so essential! The time was turned into both enjoyment & work use of PB.

    I am trying to be patiently waiting for Feb release using OS2 beta now.
    01-15-12 01:43 PM
  23. Barredbard's Avatar
    I am sorry that your recommendations of the PlayBook damaged your credibility but I would not have recommended the PlayBook to anyone without a thorough warning. I even said this in a post a some time ago. You really shouldn't have put your hopes in RIM to release OS2 so soon and even if they did the PlayBook's app base would still not compete with it's competition. So you erred there.

    You said that the PlayBook received 'horrific' reviews and this implies that these 'horrific' reviews were unanimous... Not true. Depending on where you read you will notice that the PlayBook did receive great reviews some places.

    This is a discussion none the less and I appreciate and respect your response.
    RIM promised that OS 2.0's release was imminent. Unless I was rooting for them to fail, I had no reason to doubt that it would be so. It was being marketed as "the business tablet," but didn't have the most quintessential apps for business, other than documents to go, which I like, but which could also stand some improvements. As it turned out, the only feature that the Playbook had that the leader of the pack - iPad - can't compete with is the flash-enabled browser. They reneged on their promise twice; a fact that has not exactly helped bolster sales.

    It simply was not a finished product. I didn't err. RIM erred by waiting almost a year to implement these critical changes which won't arrive on time to save it from the new sleuth of tablets that are crashing into the market in 2012. Other tablet-makers were not at a stand-still, waiting for the Playbook to receive an update before improving upon, and releasing new tablets. RIM must start thinking about the Playbook 2, if it is to survive the avalanche and maintain a foothold in the tablet business. If you are in business, you already know that goodwill and reputation are the most important intangible assets of a business. The Playbook suffered for the lack of OS 2.0. If one didn't have a Blackberry phone, and so didn't need the bridge feature, that person almost invariably went with a different tablet. Many that I know tried the Playbook and vowed never to return. Most of those folks have bought other tablets and cannot be wooed back.

    You said the reviews were not unanimously bad. I beg to differ. Most early reviews I read vilified the Playbook, and the only positive reviews I've read were those who revisited their earlier review to either make allowances for OS 2.0 or for the great price reduction. And I make it my business to read about these things. There were a couple of early reviews that were positive, but they were based entirely upon the expected changes to be brought by OS 2.0. Those of us who really, really wanted the Playbook to succeed were not looking for it to have every app that its competitors have. We were looking for it to have the basics. Just the very basics, for crying out aloud, to make it more efficient than a mere glorified flash-browser. I own a Playbook. I want the Playbook to succeed. But I can't blind myself to the facts.
    Last edited by Barredbard; 01-15-12 at 02:13 PM.
    TBone4eva and JeepBB like this.
    01-15-12 02:04 PM
  24. rjedge54's Avatar
    It's moot. They did release it in April 2011 ... and whether RIM was right or wrong to do so doesn't matter now. No armchair quarterbacking is going to alter the reality ... and to my way of thinking, it would solve or clarify nothing to waste time discussing what should or should not have been done last year.

    Just my 2 cents.
    I agree. That was the past, let's move on and look toward the future. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it changes nothing. There's nothing more to see here, move along.
    01-15-12 02:08 PM
  25. bounce007's Avatar
    RIM promised that OS 2.0's release was imminent. Unless I was rooting for them to fail, I had no reason to doubt that it would be so. It was being marketed as "the business tablet," but didn't have the most quintessential apps for business, other than documents to go, which I like, but which could also stand some improvements. As it turned out, the only feature that the Playbook had that the leader of the pack - iPad - can't compete with is the flash-enabled browser. They reneged on their promise twice; a fact that has not exactly helped bolster sales.

    It simply was not a finished product. I didn't err. RIM erred by waiting almost a year to implement these critical changes which won't arrive on time to save it from the new sleuth of tablets that are crashing into the market in 2012. Other tablet-makers were not at a stand-still, waiting for the Playbook to receive an update before improving upon, and releasing new tablets. RIM must start thinking about the Playbook 2, if it is to survive the avalanche and maintain a foothold in the tablet business. If you are in business, you already know that goodwill and reputation are the most important intangible assets of a business. The Playbook suffered for the lack of OS 2.0. If one didn't have a Blackberry phone, and so didn't need the bridge feature, that person almost invariably went with a different tablet. Many that I know tried the Playbook and vowed never to return. Most of those folks have bought other tablets and cannot be wooed back.

    You said the reviews were not unanimously bad. I beg to differ. Most early reviews I read vilified the Playbook, and the only positive reviews I've read were those who revisited their earlier review to either make allowances for OS 2.0 or for the great price reduction. And I make it my business to read about these things. There were a couple of early reviews that were positive, but they were based entirely upon the expected changes to be brought by OS 2.0. Those of us who really, really wanted the Playbook to succeed were not looking for it to have every app that its competitors have. We were looking for it to have the basics. Just the very basics, for crying out aloud, to make it more efficient than a mere glorified flash-browser. I own a Playbook. I want the Playbook to succeed. But I can't blind myself to the facts.
    'Horrific' 'vilified'... you really have a knack for using over-emotive words.

    We can agree to disagree... you think initial reviews were all bad, I know not all were. I am not deluded by my enthusiasm for BlackBerry products and there should be no illusions as to how 'complete' of a tablet the PlayBook is at this moment in time. I too want the PlayBook and RIM at large to succeed.

    By the way is 'renege' a common word in legal/law circles? My girlfriend (a 3L student) uses that word ever so often lol
    Last edited by bounce007; 01-15-12 at 02:31 PM.
    01-15-12 02:27 PM
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