[Pearl9100]

I just don't understand how people, because they disagree with a particular point feel the need to then dismiss others by saying things like "people are too quick to dismiss the fact that...." etc simply because they've an alternative view point/think otherwise.

I doubt they've been "too quick" to dismiss anything. Or that they are "plugging their ears and looking the other way..."The issues have been debated to death in the forum across numerous threads ever since the Playbook launched - (and personally I feel this poll is another one with plenty of derail potential).

I thought the purpose of a poll was to simply vote with one of the options and see the counts... just don't understand why there's a need to criticise others ("half the members of this forum?") who happen have an alternative view.

I don't think I have been quick to dismiss other people's perspectives. I have thoroughly digested most of other people's perspectives and even provide thoughtful and meaningful examples/analogies that relate to this situation.

And I don't think I am derailing the thread. I am on point and have yet to stray off topic. Can't say the same for everyone though...

Im not even going to sit here and try to say that you dont make a good point... because you do. Im not saying that it was their best move releasing it early... but look at it like this:

IF it was announced early last year that the pb would be released in Feb '12, but somehow we could opt to have the pb in April '11 WITHOUT native email, contacts and bbm... who WOULDNT jump on it prematurely?!!! We would rationalize by saying "well i can use bridge for the time being". RIM probably had this attitude the whole time, but didnt want to announce it like "unfinished pb up for grabs". They were confident that the product was still really good without these.

I see where you are coming from...and I wouldn't be one of those early adopters. I think we both agree that Rim obviously made some poor decisions by marketing the pb as a complete business tablet and releasing it on April '11 (this is kind of implicit in your example up there^^^).

[bitek]

My opinion is that RIM should have waited. The main reason why I could get $699 device for $299 was because PB got bad press and sales were slow. Look at Amazon. Its tablet was released a year later and it still sold more than PB.

[bitek]

I would say yes and no.

Yes - they couldn't wait for the market to get too far ahead of them. They make this mistake constantly with their phones and had to make an entrance.

No - they should have applied all the resources they could to developing the PB OS before releasing. To have a blackberry (the PB is a blackberry after all) that doesn't work with their own infrastructure was a huge mistake.

It's never too late though. OS2 is leaps and bounds beyond OS1 and the PB, at current low prices, will be a nice addition to the tablet market.


Sent from my iPhone4s using Tapatalk

you know the fact you have iphone and you still are here says something......good for rim. to me this means that RIM can come back as long as the company fix certain issues. i do feel that many iphone / android users still have soft spot for RIM

[Superfly_FR]

I'm happy, and always was with my PB, since day 1. So, in my case, the answer is "yes, they did right" !
BUT ;-)
I think RIM should have released it *and moreover marketed it* as an exclusive tool for BB phone users only. Instead of being bashed on a daily basis, they would have created some kind of jealousy IF they had focused on bridge capabilities (like the future beloved remote).

[Economist101]

IF it was announced early last year that the pb would be released in Feb '12, but somehow we could opt to have the pb in April '11 WITHOUT native email, contacts and bbm... who WOULDNT jump on it prematurely?!!!

People didn't buy it when they thought the finished model was being shipped in April 2011, so it's hard to believe it would've have done better if sold as something less than a finished product.

[xandermac]

you know the fact you have iphone and you still are here says something......good for rim. to me this means that RIM can come back as long as the company fix certain issues. i do feel that many iphone / android users still have soft spot for RIM

I agree. I have no doubt that RIM will address a few things and that I will ultimately come back. The blackberry is an awesome platform with usability tweaks that the iPhone can't touch. If they add customer service, ecosystem & a decent browser to that "awesome" list I would never leave them again.


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[dandbj13]

What do the Motorola Xoom, HP TouchPad, and Blackberry Playbook have in common? They were the most anticipated iPad killers of 2011, one of which was a CES Best in Show winner. What else do they have in common? Everyone of them disappointed in spectacular fashion. What else? They were all rushed out the door without key, highly touted features. Every last one of them was so desperate to compete with the iPad, they left the factory without their pants on. Yes, it was a horrific decision, for all of them!

[kerry6]

and shareholders should pull a mitt romney and fire them.

Did not Mitt help to put a lot of people out of work, (thousands, and he wants to be president and fix the economy?), making the economy worse? I could be wrong but a business can run without people's ability to purchase products...neither can an economy be put right without jobs.

The OS was complete at the time. The media compared it to iDevice's and droids, problem is as RIMM is making technological strides, the media is blasting. What If Apple introduced bridge for their idevices? then what... would everyone be praising the iGod? I think so, because for the most part I believe they have been bought...who else would review a product that they have never tried, held or touch?

But somehow it's still all about the politics...

for me, happy with my PB and happy with OS1.8 running like a champ...without Native Email...

[kerry6]

What do the Motorola Xoom, HP TouchPad, and Blackberry Playbook have in common? They were the most anticipated iPad killers of 2011, one of which was a CES Best in Show winner. What else do they have in common? Everyone of them disappointed in spectacular fashion. What else? They were all rushed out the door without key, highly touted features. Every last one of them was so desperate to compete with the iPad, they left the factory without their pants on. Yes, it was a horrific decision, for all of them!

Did they have reviews from reviewers that actually tried the devices, or again was it BIAS Media?

Ask any PB owner what they think about reviewers? Those that have never touched the device and have opinion about it, about being judged based on Apple's opinion of what a tablet should be? Hate to say this, but although they are selling to a lot of people, more as a status symbol, Steve jobs did get it wrong...and the amount of 7" tabs that are showing up in the market is proving that..

[dandbj13]

Steve jobs did get it wrong...and the amount of 7" tabs that are showing up in the market is proving that..

Mostly, the number of 7" tabs showing up just prove how hard it is to get iPad style screens with Apple cornering the market. The only 7" tab selling in noticeable numbers is the KF, which barely counts as a tablet. It is like saying that people don't prefer the unibody ultra book because they all use plastic and other materials. That only makes sense if you don't know that Apple dominates the production capacity of the only machines in the world capable of it.

[xandermac]

Steve jobs did get it wrong...and the amount of 7" tabs that are showing up in the market is proving that..

Showing up and selling aren't the same thing.

I will say that I would love a 7" iPad though.




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[brucep1]

. What If Apple introduced bridge for their idevices? then what... would everyone be praising the iGod? I think so, because for the most part I believe they have been bought...who else would review a product that they have never tried, held or touch?

Apple could never get away with introducing a bridge like feature. It has too high of an adoption rate and the carriers would never allow it. My personal opinion.

[jegs2]

Gave mine to my wife, but to be fair - didn't really have a use for it.

[xandermac]

Apple could never get away with introducing a bridge like feature. It has too high of an adoption rate and the carriers would never allow it. My personal opinion.

I agree. Look how hard it was for them just to get hotspot on AT&T phones while the rest of the world had it.

[[email protected]]

Apple could never get away with introducing a bridge like feature. It has too high of an adoption rate and the carriers would never allow it. My personal opinion.

Even if they did. They have a large share of the overall smartphone market. And 43% here in the U.S. RIM has 6% here in the U.S..

[Pearl9100]

Apple could never get away with introducing a bridge like feature. It has too high of an adoption rate and the carriers would never allow it. My personal opinion.

Naw. If Apple (especially steve jobs) introduced bridge, apple fan boys would be all on it. But if rim does it...it is an automatic failure. Bridging is one feature that the pb really did get right. It was releasing an incomplete product that really screwed them over. I hope Rim learns from this. I don't think they can afford to make many more mistakes. Good luck!

[sjefferson21]

People didn't buy it when they thought the finished model was being shipped in April 2011, so it's hard to believe it would've have done better if sold as something less than a finished product.

If you took away from my comment that the pb would have done better... then u missed the point.

What im saying is that had we been told upfront that it was unfinished, but somehow had the chance to try out the pb anyway... many... and i mean MANY people would have jumped on it. it was a hypothetical to demonstrate the fact that not everyone is so critical when it comes to native calendsr, email and bbm

[beemaabeemababy]

This also means that RIM intended to take a $485mm loss, be the brunt of so much bad press that they would lose 75% of their stock value, more bad press around the tablet and now sitting with Goldman Sachs to figure out what their merger options might be.

All of this to dictate the price of the lower-end tablet prices.

Yes. Well Played RIM. Well Played Indeed.

Seriously??????????

They didn't lose $485m, they just had a sale which ultimately means you can't earn as much money. But then you have to look at the flip side too; what does a sale like this entail?

1) More stock in people's hands rather than in costly storage
2) Shows developers that there is demand for this platform
3) Create an ecosystem so that the PlayBook and subsequent products on this new and improved platform are not short-lived

So if you compare the monetary losses to the gain the company would achieve, then it can be considered an investment rather than a loss; as we would now be considering the wider perspective.

As for the share price plummeting, if I were the leader of that company and I had thought out this plan that would bring success to the company, I would also want to benefit from the future success. That means purposely doing things to drive down the share prices without damaging the finances of the company and when the share prices are low enough, I would buy all the shares or whatever I could afford so that I can benefit immensely in future.

Or am I the only one who feels that's the best way to earn more shares without paying for them?

[NakedPaulToast]

That means purposely doing things to drive down the share prices without damaging the finances of the company and when the share prices are low enough, I would buy all the shares or whatever I could afford so that I can benefit immensely in future.

Or am I the only one who feels that's the best way to earn more shares without paying for them?

No, you're not the only one who feels that way. But many who share your feelings are in jail for securities fraud.

A public corporation always needs to act on behalf of their shareholders. Deliberately driving down the price so you can buy them up yourself is a severe crime.

[[email protected]]

They didn't lose $485m, they just had a sale which ultimately means you can't earn as much money. But then you have to look at the flip side too; what does a sale like this entail?

1) More stock in people's hands rather than in costly storage
2) Shows developers that there is demand for this platform
3) Create an ecosystem so that the PlayBook and subsequent products on this new and improved platform are not short-lived

So if you compare the monetary losses to the gain the company would achieve, then it can be considered an investment rather than a loss; as we would now be considering the wider perspective.

As for the share price plummeting, if I were the leader of that company and I had thought out this plan that would bring success to the company, I would also want to benefit from the future success. That means purposely doing things to drive down the share prices without damaging the finances of the company and when the share prices are low enough, I would buy all the shares or whatever I could afford so that I can benefit immensely in future.

Or am I the only one who feels that's the best way to earn more shares without paying for them?

I'm really trying to figure out if you're serious or not.

"They didn't lose $485m, they just had a sale which ultimately means you can't earn as much money."

That's called a LOSS.

1.) What more 'stock' are you referring to. You(in your scenario) manufactured a certain number of playbooks to sell. They simply did not.
2.) What demand? See #1.
3.) Uh huh..


The leader of a company purposefully driving down share price and stock holder value to the point the shareholders want to fire you?

To get more stock, that's also down 75%, so you can buy more at the low price while waiting on the unemployment line?

On the strategy that the stock price will rise to pre-crisis level?

Uh huh...

[beemaabeemababy]

No, you're not the only one who feels that way. But many who share your feelings are in jail for securities fraud.

A public corporation always needs to act on behalf of their shareholders. Deliberately driving down the price so you can buy them up yourself is a severe crime.

I wonder if Mike and Jim have bought any shares lately?

Maybe that's why they are hiring Goldman Sachs; to somehow gain more of their shares back without a backlash or being put into prison for it!

[_StephenBB81]

I wonder if Mike and Jim have bought any shares lately?

Maybe that's why they are hiring Goldman Sachs; to somehow gain more of their shares back without a backlash or being put into prison for it!

Well They cancelled the Stock buy back program which would have increased their % holdings in RIM, so I don't think they purposely tried to knock the stock price down for their own potential gain

[bounce007]

Two great poll/marketing questions would be:

1.) How many purchased AFTER the price drop that had not considered the PB previously?

2.) How many non-BB phone users purchased the PB because of the sale?

Maybe you should start a poll thread with those questions?

[Pearl9100]

They didn't lose $485m, they just had a sale which ultimately means you can't earn as much money. But then you have to look at the flip side too; what does a sale like this entail?

1) More stock in people's hands rather than in costly storage
2) Shows developers that there is demand for this platform
3) Create an ecosystem so that the PlayBook and subsequent products on this new and improved platform are not short-lived

So if you compare the monetary losses to the gain the company would achieve, then it can be considered an investment rather than a loss; as we would now be considering the wider perspective.

As for the share price plummeting, if I were the leader of that company and I had thought out this plan that would bring success to the company, I would also want to benefit from the future success. That means purposely doing things to drive down the share prices without damaging the finances of the company and when the share prices are low enough, I would buy all the shares or whatever I could afford so that I can benefit immensely in future.

Or am I the only one who feels that's the best way to earn more shares without paying for them?

Wow....just wow....

[Economist101]

If you took away from my comment that the pb would have done better... then u missed the point.

What im saying is that had we been told upfront that it was unfinished, but somehow had the chance to try out the pb anyway... many... and i mean MANY people would have jumped on it. it was a hypothetical to demonstrate the fact that not everyone is so critical when it comes to native calendsr, email and bbm

Whereby "try out the PB" you mean paying $499, $599 or $699 for an unfinished product? This still doesn't make any sense.