02-01-12 07:14 AM
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  1. kubernetes's Avatar
    What competive messaging app are you talking about? Right now there is no true cross-platform messaging app, unless you count SMS or email. So how is RIM being left behind?

    A true messaging app would take an act of god. All Manufacturers would have to agree to use the same one and then get the carriers to agree. That is not going to happen anytime in our future.
    Well, for one thing, FB has in-app IM. Meebo, Gtalk. Better ones are coming, that's for sure. And why would the manufacturers and carriers have to agree to get IM to work?

    The thing is, BBM is superior to anything out right now, but its massive disadvantage is that it's only available on Blackberries. There's no point to a messenger app if you can't talk to your friends, most of whom probably own iPhones or Androids.

    RIM could eat up this space across platforms if it wanted, but it has to get on the ball before someone else dominates it.
    01-31-12 04:07 PM
  2. mdarscott's Avatar
    To be honest, I really don't know why people get so personally invested in these companies. It's not a team sport. They're the ones competing and we're just potential customers.
    Good point. I don't know why I get so upset about RIM's problems. They're a big company. The directors are super-rich. Why should I care? I don't care if Whirlpool has management problems because I own a Whirlpool dishwasher. Wouldn't bother me if Citibank shares dropped 75%.
    But you notice Apple owners become heavily invested in Apple, like we PB owners seem to be invested in RIM.
    Don't get it, except to say I think it has something to do with the addictive nature of the product and how so much of our life is lived texting, tweeting, e-mailing, youTubing, etc. with the device.
    01-31-12 04:10 PM
  3. BBplaybookJS's Avatar
    To be honest, I really don't know why people get so personally invested in these companies. It's not a team sport. They're the ones competing and we're just potential customers.
    To be honest RIM is a Canadian company, it is arguably the leading tech company in Canada and Blackberry one of the most recognizeable trademarks in the world. I am a proud Canadian, RIM employs thousands of Canadians, for those reasons alone I would be a supporter. The fact that they make totally awesome products makes it even better.
    aha and fanatical like this.
    01-31-12 06:04 PM
  4. Foreverup's Avatar
    Well, for one thing, FB has in-app IM. Meebo, Gtalk. Better ones are coming, that's for sure. And why would the manufacturers and carriers have to agree to get IM to work?

    The thing is, BBM is superior to anything out right now, but its massive disadvantage is that it's only available on Blackberries. There's no point to a messenger app if you can't talk to your friends, most of whom probably own iPhones or Androids.

    RIM could eat up this space across platforms if it wanted, but it has to get on the ball before someone else dominates it.
    It's called fragmentation you use gtalk but your friend uses yahoo.

    You won't get everyone to use it. It has nothing to do with RIM not putting BBM on Android or IOS. You need everyone to agree to preinstall it on the phones and that means Manufactures or Carriers to pay RIM for access to the NOC cause RIM ain't going to do it for free.

    On top of that RIM could careless about putting a 99 cent BBM app. They want to make real money.
    01-31-12 06:04 PM
  5. kubernetes's Avatar
    Don't get it, except to say I think it has something to do with the addictive nature of the product and how so much of our life is lived texting, tweeting, e-mailing, youTubing, etc. with the device.
    Good point. I guess our phones are the most personalized "things" in our lives. Maybe cars too.


    foreverup:
    It's called fragmentation you use gtalk but your friend uses yahoo.
    I would call that an opportunity for a superior product to occupy that space.

    You won't get everyone to use it. It has nothing to do with RIM not putting BBM on Android or IOS. You need everyone to agree to preinstall it on the phones
    BBM already has mindshare in everyone who's ever used BBM. Virtually all of my friends used to own Blackberries, and even though almost none of them do now, they still remember BBM fondly. It wouldn't have to be preinstalled-- RIM just needs to get enough people to install it initially and the numbers will cascade once it becomes The Standard.

    On top of that RIM could careless about putting a 99 cent BBM app. They want to make real money.
    That just seems shortsighted to me. BBM is one technology in which RIM has a clear advantage... but it languishes because BBM isn't enough to get people to buy Blackberry phones. Just because RIM has traditionally been a hardware/software company doesn't mean it shouldn't explore BBM as a standalone product. A 99 cent app isn't chump change when looking at a billion users, or the potential ad revenue. Heck, I wonder how much value they get out of BBM now.
    01-31-12 07:31 PM
  6. damndirtyapes's Avatar
    RIM is certainly not dead; however, you might try to get a bit of perspective.

    1) You cannot survive for long without the US market, if you choose to play globally. Ask Nokia how that worked out for them.
    2) RIM HAD 1.5 billion in the bank. It is also losing almost that much on the Playbook.
    3) Tablets have been a financial disappointment for almost everyone except Apple but RIM has lost more than most.

    It isn't just the US media who have portrayed RIM as having problems. Perhaps you didn't notice that the co-CEOs (and founders) of the company have been forced to the side.
    Can you please quote me where you get your facts?
    Thanks.
    01-31-12 07:45 PM
  7. aha's Avatar
    UP for the OP. It is the time for RIM to handle the press a little better now.

    I listened to Crackberry Kevin's recent interview with Engadget and Kevin was killing those questions. That's how RIM should have handled the press.

    RIM, hire Kevin as your head of PR.
    01-31-12 08:16 PM
  8. xKrNMBoYx's Avatar
    It doesnít help that RIM is a Canadian company and the American media show a clear preference for US companies.
    This has nothing to do with RIM being a Canadian based company, or not being based in the US. Popularity changes, trend changes, RIM just happened to have become one of the things that lost the trend. It will gain popularity sooner or later.

    Samsung is not an american company, and one of the reason it's used widely in the US is because of the different things they can make. From Kitchen Appliances to the core components that go into every electronic that exists today. They can design and also produce their products in their own factories because of their technological advancement. They do a lot of sponsoring in Korea whether it's the entertainment/sports industry.

    No one American will buy a product just because it was created in the US. It's true that people like to buy locally if it's of good quality and price because it can keep the money flowing in the closed/micro economy(context). People prefer or love Apple, Microsoft, what every company in the US because it's relatively a good product to vast amounts of people, even if it is not for everyone. I like Samsung because it's made in my home country. I won't buy it just for that reason. But if you look carefully their products are "pretty" nice, I would say above average.

    Open your mind, and read a little bit more (which is what I should be doing instead of writing this crap)

    It's natural for people to prefer a product created in their motherland. There is no way you can tell me that there is no canadians supporting RIM because of the sole purpose of being based in Canada.
    01-31-12 08:32 PM
  9. mdarscott's Avatar
    This has nothing to do with RIM being a Canadian based company, or not being based in the US. Popularity changes, trend changes, RIM just happened to have become one of the things that lost the trend.
    Hmm, not sure. It's a good question whether RIM is the exclusive author of their own misery. Personally I think I detect a certain delight bashing RIM and piling it on by repeating the same tired lines about their problems. Is it a conspiracy or are they just too lazy to find out for themselves? Is it a Canadian thing or would an American company be treated the same way? I think it makes it easier for American critics to be negative that the company is Canadian.
    I hear you about Samsung. Very good products. And they sure have come a long way fast. But I would point out that they are pretty much the flagship for Android right now. We'll see how long the glamour lasts when Google and Motorola are ready with a real Google phone.
    01-31-12 09:56 PM
  10. dmcclure2's Avatar
    I've run tech corporations, led turnaround teams, and lived on the bleeding edge of technology for some four decades. So here is my $.02 on RIM:

    1) This is the 15th round, and RIM has been been bloody since Round 5. But, like Rocky, it has the chance to come back and win.
    2) This is not a techology or features disaster. This is a marketing/PR disaster, and RIM shoud have fired its agency and internal MarCom staff a year ago. And while we are on the subject, just what in the heck is the new "Power Rangers" ad all about????
    3) The future has to be a three-step process: Clean up the PB mess with the 2.0 OS, get a new generation of System 10 cell phones into the marketplace, and push for more innovation.
    4) The market for tablets is young, unsecured and filled with business people lusting for a good tablet product. In version 1.0, RIM failed to meet expectations. But it is not too late to turn this debacle around, if that is what they wish to do.

    On the other hand, if the strategy is merely to let the shareholders cash out on the Blackberry name and get their investments back...well, goodbye.
    mdarscott likes this.
    01-31-12 10:13 PM
  11. rjedge54's Avatar
    Yet, PB is the only device that doesn't have support for many foreign languages. Apple's iPhone had support for east asian language (both input and output) years before they began selling them on asian markets, and RIM's mature BB devices still struggle in this area.

    How will they compete in non-US market if they don't even have language support for these markets?

    Sure they can start getting ready now, but to me they are still US focused..
    The comments werent specific to the Playbook or tablet market only. RIM's business is a great deal more than just the playbook.
    01-31-12 10:22 PM
  12. rjedge54's Avatar
    Truly a matter for interpretation. Mike L has stated it was being planned for years and all public statements confirm this.

    But take into account public pressure for the move, the abrupt announcement of it, and Jim basically having no power left. You could could infer that it was forced upon Mike and Jim. Especially Jim.
    How is it open to interpretation? There is no evidence whatsoever to support this. It is pure conjecture in the face of all evidence to the contrary including public statements by those involved.


    While everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but it should be clearly stated as such. If one makes statements that are in complete contradiction to what had been publicly declared then expect it to be challenged.
    01-31-12 10:29 PM
  13. rjedge54's Avatar
    To be honest, I really don't know why people get so personally invested in these companies. It's not a team sport. They're the ones competing and we're just potential customers.

    I'll be straight up: I like my Playbook a lot. But I also like my iPad and my Samsung phone. All these tech gadgets were purchased based on what they could do for me, not the brand name on the box. I would totally buy an iPhone, BB, Windows Phone, or whatever else is out there if the tech was right for me... why would I lock myself into one brand?

    Anyhow, one thing I wanted to say, as a platform-agnostic, is that the "media hate" line is bordering on paranoia and is the sure sign of a "fanboi." I read the same things on other tech forums by other tech "fanbois" and it's always the same: They hate us and they're biased toward [Apple/Google/Sony/MS/whomever]. I don't really see any anti-RIM hate in the media, any more than I see anti-Nokia hate or anti-MS hate; for the most part the negative news and opinions about RIM are based on what RIM has done to itself. No sane person could look at RIM's trajectory in the past four years and think it's been good.
    If you don't believe there is a media bias against RIM then you aren't reading enough tech blogs and site. Being i n IT I have to keep up with technology and even when not looking for it whenever I come across articles about mobile devices the articles are almost always negative in several ways.


    1. Quick to point out errors or problems with RIM devices or software while defending the same with others.
    2. Gloss over serious problems on other platforms while minimizing or plain ignoring the positives with Blackberry.


    I could cite cite several examples in detail (Phone 3g encryption lie, non removable MDM iPhone policies) but they would be lengthy, overly technical and detract from the thread. Some media outlets are more blatant than others ( Engadget, eWeek) in their bias. Suffice it to say that when I see so much of it when I am not looking for it and instead just looking for quality tech articles so I can better manage and serve my mobile device users of all platforms then the bias is pretty clear. There is also a clear bias against non US companies in the US Tech media as well.
    mdarscott likes this.
    01-31-12 11:16 PM
  14. mdarscott's Avatar
    1) This is the 15th round, and RIM has been been bloody since Round 5. But, like Rocky, it has the chance to come back and win.
    This post is spot on; it sums up everything I wanted to say here.
    I love the Rocky image and I am really pulling for RIM to pull it out in the 15th round. This is RIM and QNX, two underdogs who have already taken on the biggest and won before.

    More informed discussion of media bias can be found in this thread: Will someone write a competent media review.
    02-01-12 07:14 AM
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