02-01-12 07:14 AM
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  1. mdarscott's Avatar
    RIM is playing in the big leagues where they play for keeps. Huge multinational corporations with big war chests like Apple, Microsoft, Samsung and Google would like to knock them out of the market and take their market share. They fight dirty and they have been very good at getting out the message that the Playbook is a failure and RIM has lost it. It doesn’t help that RIM is a Canadian company and the American media show a clear preference for US companies. We also see it here on Crackberry: “fanboys” who show up out of nowhere with articulate and search-optimized posts repeating the same line as RIM competitors and then disappear again.
    RIM's new CEO, Thorsten Heins, says his priority is to get out PB OS 2.0 and then BB 10 and the new BB phones. OK, agreed. But my first priority would be to get a communications executive in to control the message. Someone to give a coherent plan to media relations and advertising.
    The playbook is not a hardware failure. It has some software shortcomings but not worse than many of its competitors. The biggest failure is in controlling expectations and controlling the message. Raising expectations sky high only to dash them is playing into the hands of competitors. Instead of going “wow!” like we should, we go “sure but it doesn’t do [insert MSN Messenger or favourite missing feature here] like they promised.” It’s always better to undersell and over deliver but RIM has been doing the reverse.
    Here’s what PCMag had to say today: Silly Superheros. Sure PCMag clearly has a stake in the competitors’ camp and is unlikely to ever say anything good about a RIM product, even grudgingly. But this kind of ill-thought out campaign is playing into their hands and making it easy.
    Can PB OS 2.0 possibly be a success? No matter how great it is, can it match the expectations being set for it?
    RIM advertising has been missing the mark and their media relations are a mess. I pray that they get someone to take this crucial function in hand far more than I pray that OS 2.0 will be great.
    conix67 and KMB4 like this.
    01-31-12 11:07 AM
  2. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    And YOU are talking S.E.O ????

    Edit: sorry, got my nerves ... but 6 posts and such a precise idea of who/what CB enthusiasts are ...
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    01-31-12 11:10 AM
  3. southlander's Avatar
    RIM beat Microsoft before. Don't count em out yet.

    Sent from my BlackBerry 9850 using Tapatalk
    Willard814 likes this.
    01-31-12 11:14 AM
  4. Thachoc1's Avatar
    Playing in the big leagues? ARE YOU SERIOUS!!! RIM PRACTICALLY (NOT LITERALLY) STARTED THE LEAGUE!!! NUFF SAID!!!
    Last edited by Thachoc1; 01-31-12 at 11:26 AM.
    01-31-12 11:20 AM
  5. mdarscott's Avatar
    And YOU are talking S.E.O ????
    Yeah, I know it sounds like I am bashing RIM. I'm not. I only just discovered RIM when my wife got a Bold and I went "wow, that's a serious phone." I was going to buy a Kindle Fire but then saw the Playbook for the same price. Thirty seconds of playing with it in the store and I was hooked. Haven't been able to let go of it since. I get the whole crackberry addiction thing now.
    I love my Playbook. I love my wife's Bold. Right now I have an iPhone - more of a toy than a business tool - but my next phone will be BB.
    I really want RIM to succeed. That's why it's all so painful watching them get thrashed so unfairly and seemingly not knowing what to do about it.
    KMB4, fanatical and bayotte like this.
    01-31-12 11:28 AM
  6. simu31's Avatar
    It is a common feature in the US (and some other countries who re-print the original garbage) media that RIM is dead and is failing and blah, blah, blah...
    As the OP mentionned, it is almost as simple as a marketing problem (and app problem).
    What the US media fails systematically to show is that:
    1. The US is NOT the centre of the planet
    2. RIM increased (by a huge number) the number of subscribers
    3. RIM has $1.5bn in the bank, no debt and makes $5bn/quarter in turnover
    All these figures can be put in a negative spin, for example:
    1. the US has (generally) a higher number of top level smartphone sales than other territories
    2. They are not all "top value" customers, often taking lower level smartphones
    3. It's no where near as much as Apple, Google, etc...

    But that's where the marketing comes in and once they sort that out, they should be on a better path. They also need to stop missing deadlines. Stop promising things they don't deliver (certain apps which will remain nameless). And stop letting their competitors / competitor's fanboys blatently LIEING about them.

    Either way, RIM/BB is FAR from dead and 2012 could/should be a great year for them.

    Si.
    KMB4, fanatical and Willard814 like this.
    01-31-12 11:34 AM
  7. fredrismos's Avatar
    The C.E.O should focus more o publicity and proper marketing.RIM has been there even before other phones and yet they seem like distant compared to others.

    OS2 and PB10 phones would make huge breaks but with poor publicity,it would still be like the 0S7 phones.I read that "Blackberry is the #1 phone in the UK" and i don't know how true the story is but i won't doubt that.

    BB Playbook is still at its first when the likes of ipads and more have more than one tablet in the market,helping to fix their several issues with their previous models and the playbook is just heading for its second yet,the first is being compared with other tablets that have generations already..

    I hope RIM gets it figured this time because 2012 holds a lot for them but if they decide to lay back,they might end up worse than they did in 2011.

    Proud Blackberry Fan
    01-31-12 11:41 AM
  8. swyost's Avatar
    It is a common feature in the US (and some other countries who re-print the original garbage) media that RIM is dead and is failing and blah, blah, blah...
    As the OP mentionned, it is almost as simple as a marketing problem (and app problem).
    What the US media fails systematically to show is that:
    1. The US is NOT the centre of the planet
    2. RIM increased (by a huge number) the number of subscribers
    3. RIM has $1.5bn in the bank, no debt and makes $5bn/quarter in turnover
    All these figures can be put in a negative spin, for example:
    1. the US has (generally) a higher number of top level smartphone sales than other territories
    2. They are not all "top value" customers, often taking lower level smartphones
    3. It's no where near as much as Apple, Google, etc...

    But that's where the marketing comes in and once they sort that out, they should be on a better path. They also need to stop missing deadlines. Stop promising things they don't deliver (certain apps which will remain nameless). And stop letting their competitors / competitor's fanboys blatently LIEING about them.

    Either way, RIM/BB is FAR from dead and 2012 could/should be a great year for them.

    Si.
    RIM is certainly not dead; however, you might try to get a bit of perspective.

    1) You cannot survive for long without the US market, if you choose to play globally. Ask Nokia how that worked out for them.
    2) RIM HAD 1.5 billion in the bank. It is also losing almost that much on the Playbook.
    3) Tablets have been a financial disappointment for almost everyone except Apple but RIM has lost more than most.

    It isn't just the US media who have portrayed RIM as having problems. Perhaps you didn't notice that the co-CEOs (and founders) of the company have been forced to the side.
    01-31-12 11:43 AM
  9. swyost's Avatar
    RIM is playing in the big leagues where they play for keeps. Huge multinational corporations with big war chests like Apple, Microsoft, Samsung and Google would like to knock them out of the market and take their market share. They fight dirty and they have been very good at getting out the message that the Playbook is a failure and RIM has lost it. It doesn’t help that RIM is a Canadian company and the American media show a clear preference for US companies. We also see it here on Crackberry: “fanboys” who show up out of nowhere with articulate and search-optimized posts repeating the same line as RIM competitors and then disappear again.
    RIM's new CEO, Thorsten Heins, says his priority is to get out PB OS 2.0 and then BB 10 and the new BB phones. OK, agreed. But my first priority would be to get a communications executive in to control the message. Someone to give a coherent plan to media relations and advertising.
    The playbook is not a hardware failure. It has some software shortcomings but not worse than many of its competitors. The biggest failure is in controlling expectations and controlling the message. Raising expectations sky high only to dash them is playing into the hands of competitors. Instead of going “wow!” like we should, we go “sure but it doesn’t do [insert MSN Messenger or favourite missing feature here] like they promised.” It’s always better to undersell and over deliver but RIM has been doing the reverse.
    Here’s what PCMag had to say today: Silly Superheros. Sure PCMag clearly has a stake in the competitors’ camp and is unlikely to ever say anything good about a RIM product, even grudgingly. But this kind of ill-thought out campaign is playing into their hands and making it easy.
    Can PB OS 2.0 possibly be a success? No matter how great it is, can it match the expectations being set for it?
    RIM advertising has been missing the mark and their media relations are a mess. I pray that they get someone to take this crucial function in hand far more than I pray that OS 2.0 will be great.
    To date the Playbook has been a failure because RIM delivered a half finished product that lacked applications for the company's signaure strength: email and business connectivity. The marketing campaign was also an absolute joke. If RIM had initially advertised the Playbook just as an extension of Blackberry phones with a rollout catered to those customers, it could have been a solid niche market success, upon which they could have expanded with the release of OS 2. That, however, is not what they did. They advertised it as the first professional grade tablet. Unfortunately, now they need to contend with the bad press they helped create. RIM did not need the help of Apple, Google, Microsoft, etc to create the current situation. It has been a mess of their own making.

    BTW, I would have never bought a Playbook if I had gone solely by RIMs advertising campaign - I bought it as a calculated risk based upon specs and possible future improvements. I am quite satisfied with the product and recommend it to others but would never think of suggesting its market position and reputation are the result of any sort of conspiracy or unfair expectations.
    01-31-12 12:00 PM
  10. simu31's Avatar
    RIM is certainly not dead; however, you might try to get a bit of perspective.

    1) You cannot survive for long without the US market, if you choose to play globally. Ask Nokia how that worked out for them.
    2) RIM HAD 1.5 billion in the bank. It is also losing almost that much on the Playbook.
    3) Tablets have been a financial disappointment for almost everyone except Apple but RIM has lost more than most.

    It isn't just the US media who have portrayed RIM as having problems. Perhaps you didn't notice that the co-CEOs (and founders) of the company have been forced to the side.
    So many companies do survive without the US market. I'm not saying RIM should try, but the US (for all the great things about it), is not the only country on the planet, and (especially the US media, but not limited to) don't seem to understand that just because something is no longer N°1 over there, it doesn't mean it's dead.
    Following the departure of the co-CEOs last week, they - and the new CEO - still commented on $1.5bn in the bank, so unless you are privy to their bank statement, I'm guessing they still have that money.
    Yes, the Playbook was released without some (very) useful native apps, but I'd say the marketing mismanagement was probably worse for them.
    I never said it was only the US media who critisizes RIM, but I also don't see the link you are infering, sorry.

    Si.
    01-31-12 12:02 PM
  11. hpjrt's Avatar
    I think you'll find that RIM currently has 1.5 billion. They had more before but they are still making a profit, still have no debt. I think they look pretty healthy as a company. Oh and their products sell very well, even dominate in Asia, Africa, India, and Europe.
    01-31-12 12:04 PM
  12. canito338's Avatar
    It is a common feature in the US (and some other countries who re-print the original garbage) media that RIM is dead and is failing and blah, blah, blah...
    As the OP mentionned, it is almost as simple as a marketing problem (and app problem).
    What the US media fails systematically to show is that:
    1. The US is NOT the centre of the planet
    2. RIM increased (by a huge number) the number of subscribers
    3. RIM has $1.5bn in the bank, no debt and makes $5bn/quarter in turnover
    All these figures can be put in a negative spin, for example:
    1. the US has (generally) a higher number of top level smartphone sales than other territories
    2. They are not all "top value" customers, often taking lower level smartphones
    3. It's no where near as much as Apple, Google, etc...

    But that's where the marketing comes in and once they sort that out, they should be on a better path. They also need to stop missing deadlines. Stop promising things they don't deliver (certain apps which will remain nameless). And stop letting their competitors / competitor's fanboys blatently LIEING about them.

    Either way, RIM/BB is FAR from dead and 2012 could/should be a great year for them.

    Si.
    just to clear something, USA is the center of the universe, that does not have nothing to do with the hate towards rim. they just will hate a outsider since usa have now a product, press will bash bb no matter how god bb does!! just dont take press personal and enjoy your bb and playbook... i do no matter what they say!
    01-31-12 01:05 PM
  13. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    I won't quote the OP, but I'll grant it wasn't a bad post.

    I DO think that "Thor" is well aware of RIM's communications and marketing failures, as suggested by his call for a CMO.
    mdarscott likes this.
    01-31-12 01:11 PM
  14. Blacklac's Avatar
    If there is more US "media hate" than other countries, its because Blackberry's are becoming less and less popular in the US. If RIM suddenly started to fail in India, they would get media hate in India too. The whole "US media bias" is getting a little out of hand. The US media warned RIM years ago they needed to step up or they would start falling behind.

    Just needed to clear that up...
    01-31-12 01:17 PM
  15. hootyhoo's Avatar
    RIM is playing in the big leagues where they play for keeps. Huge multinational corporations with big war chests like Apple, Microsoft, Samsung and Google would like to knock them out of the market and take their market share. They fight dirty and they have been very good at getting out the message that the Playbook is a failure and RIM has lost it. It doesn’t help that RIM is a Canadian company and the American media show a clear preference for US companies. We also see it here on Crackberry: “fanboys” who show up out of nowhere with articulate and search-optimized posts repeating the same line.
    Last I heard Samsung is not an American company, and I think that they are doing ok. The media bias argument is getting old.
    01-31-12 01:18 PM
  16. mdarscott's Avatar
    Last I heard Samsung is not an American company, and I think that they are doing ok. The media bias argument is getting old.
    Samsung is Korean but they are carrying the flag for Google's Android at the moment.
    And, my point was, whether there is media bias or not, RIM is not doing a very good job of getting ITS message to the media and the public.
    01-31-12 01:32 PM
  17. southlander's Avatar
    If you look at various companies' profits, you see that generally Apple is the only handset maker that's killing on the hardware.. Samsung's doing ok. Not saying others are not making money (before a few of you start posting links to financials -- I am lookin' at YOU Economist101 ).

    So what do these companies covet if there's not enough money in hardware? Service revenue.

    If RIM can maintain its service revenue that will become a *huge* advantage. That's why I think BlackBerry Fusion, Balance, and the BBM-izing of the apps is a good thing. But RIM needs to build out compelling consumer services. Remains to be seen if they can. They are going to make you have BIS of some kind, right? So it needs to be "worth it".
    mdarscott likes this.
    01-31-12 01:38 PM
  18. conix67's Avatar
    If you look at various companies' profits, you see that generally Apple is the only handset maker that's killing on the hardware.. Samsung's doing ok. Not saying others are not making money (before a few of you start posting links to financials -- I am lookin' at YOU Economist101 ).

    So what do these companies covet if there's not enough money in hardware? Service revenue.

    If RIM can maintain its service revenue that will become a *huge* advantage. That's why I think BlackBerry Fusion, Balance, and the BBM-izing of the apps is a good thing. But RIM needs to build out compelling consumer services. Remains to be seen if they can. They are going to make you have BIS of some kind, right? So it needs to be "worth it".
    They can sustain service revenue only if they can maintain at least current market share of their handset devices. That is probably why there are talks about RIM licensing their services to other handset devices.
    01-31-12 01:53 PM
  19. kubernetes's Avatar
    To be honest, I really don't know why people get so personally invested in these companies. It's not a team sport. They're the ones competing and we're just potential customers.

    I'll be straight up: I like my Playbook a lot. But I also like my iPad and my Samsung phone. All these tech gadgets were purchased based on what they could do for me, not the brand name on the box. I would totally buy an iPhone, BB, Windows Phone, or whatever else is out there if the tech was right for me... why would I lock myself into one brand?

    Anyhow, one thing I wanted to say, as a platform-agnostic, is that the "media hate" line is bordering on paranoia and is the sure sign of a "fanboi." I read the same things on other tech forums by other tech "fanbois" and it's always the same: They hate us and they're biased toward [Apple/Google/Sony/MS/whomever]. I don't really see any anti-RIM hate in the media, any more than I see anti-Nokia hate or anti-MS hate; for the most part the negative news and opinions about RIM are based on what RIM has done to itself. No sane person could look at RIM's trajectory in the past four years and think it's been good.
    mdarscott likes this.
    01-31-12 02:37 PM
  20. kubernetes's Avatar
    Yeah, RIM really needs to put BBM on other platforms before they're dominated by competing messenger services.

    I used to love BBM back in the day, but I stopped using it precisely because it's limited only to Blackberrys. It was fine when all my friends had Blackberrys, but BBM became useless to me once they migrated to iPhone or Android.

    It was an acceptable model back in the day when RIM dominated the smartphone market, but they don't have enough of a share to keep it behind the fence. Other competing apps are becoming prominent on iOS and Android... BBM is great and should dominate, but it won't stand a chance if RIM waits too long to port it.
    01-31-12 02:43 PM
  21. Foreverup's Avatar
    Yeah, RIM really needs to put BBM on other platforms before they're dominated by competing messenger services.

    I used to love BBM back in the day, but I stopped using it precisely because it's limited only to Blackberrys. It was fine when all my friends had Blackberrys, but BBM became useless to me once they migrated to iPhone or Android.

    It was an acceptable model back in the day when RIM dominated the smartphone market, but they don't have enough of a share to keep it behind the fence. Other competing apps are becoming prominent on iOS and Android... BBM is great and should dominate, but it won't stand a chance if RIM waits too long to port it.
    What competive messaging app are you talking about? Right now there is no true cross-platform messaging app, unless you count SMS or email. So how is RIM being left behind?

    A true messaging app would take an act of god. All Manufacturers would have to agree to use the same one and then get the carriers to agree. That is not going to happen anytime in our future.
    hpjrt likes this.
    01-31-12 02:54 PM
  22. rjedge54's Avatar
    RIM is certainly not dead; however, you might try to get a bit of perspective.

    1) You cannot survive for long without the US market, if you choose to play globally. Ask Nokia how that worked out for them.
    Please, you need to get out more. I haven't heard anything so blatantly egotisically pro US in a long time. Do you think that Nokia's issues are because of poor performance in the US. Maybe they were lacking in innovation and products that people wanted.


    There are more than enough global brands doing quite well without the US thank you very much. Many of them not even in the US market at all and are doing quite well thank you very much.


    This is just more of the "if it isn't happening in the US then it either isn't happening at all or it doesn't matter". I think some Americans take the "this is the greatest country in the world" thing a little too far and sometimes assume the US is the *only* country in the world.


    Some of us elsewhere happen to think we live in pretty great countries as well.
    01-31-12 03:17 PM
  23. conix67's Avatar
    Please, you need to get out more. I haven't heard anything so blatantly egotisically pro US in a long time. Do you think that Nokia's issues are because of poor performance in the US. Maybe they were lacking in innovation and products that people wanted.


    There are more than enough global brands doing quite well without the US thank you very much. Many of them not even in the US market at all and are doing quite well thank you very much.


    This is just more of the "if it isn't happening in the US then it either isn't happening at all or it doesn't matter". I think some Americans take the "this is the greatest country in the world" thing a little too far and sometimes assume the US is the *only* country in the world.


    Some of us elsewhere happen to think we live in pretty great countries as well.
    Yet, PB is the only device that doesn't have support for many foreign languages. Apple's iPhone had support for east asian language (both input and output) years before they began selling them on asian markets, and RIM's mature BB devices still struggle in this area.

    How will they compete in non-US market if they don't even have language support for these markets?

    Sure they can start getting ready now, but to me they are still US focused..
    aha likes this.
    01-31-12 03:24 PM
  24. rjedge54's Avatar

    Perhaps you didn't notice that the co-CEOs (and founders) of the company have been forced to the side.
    Can you quote your source for this statement that they were "forced to the side". If you had read most of the information or listened to interviews posted (even here on CB) that the CEO change was being planned as far as 4 back as years ago and presented to the board a year ago.
    01-31-12 03:25 PM
  25. Foreverup's Avatar
    Can you quote your source for this statement that they were "forced to the side". If you had read most of the information or listened to interviews posted (even here on CB) that the CEO change was being planned as far as 4 back as years ago and presented to the board a year ago.
    Truly a matter for interpretation. Mike L has stated it was being planned for years and all public statements confirm this.

    But take into account public pressure for the move, the abrupt announcement of it, and Jim basically having no power left. You could could infer that it was forced upon Mike and Jim. Especially Jim.
    01-31-12 03:33 PM
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