[Unsure2]

"...BlackBerry video store, which will have 10,000 movies and TV shows available on demand to buy or rent as well as new movie releases on the same day as DVD availability...."

Is there any sign that RIM is actually putting together a Netflix-type media operation? Now, that might change my prediction regarding the Playbook, as it would give RIM some reason to hang tough with the tablet. Of course, people would accuse RIM of turning the Playbook into a Fire style ordering terminal, but it would provide some hope of making a profit while selling the hardware at a loss.

[Interloper.]

As I said before, this is a great post. I like the way you think. You have a good (business) head on your shoulders. You and I can clank glasses when the pb gets cancelled and reminisce how we called it months ago.

I have zero confidence in rim committing to the pb. It is a losing battle to enter the tablet market because of the fierce competition, and it is only going to get worst with the advent of windows 8. Win 8 tablet pcs might devastate the tablet market...but that is another discussion for another time. My point is that rim will be looking for a exit strategy in the tablet market. It becomes evident when one takes into consideration all of the factors. They especially cannot sustain such massive losses.

Thx, Pearl. Re tablet competition, there will be a whack of 7" tablets with Android 4.0 coming out in the next few months. I'm not a big Android fan, but ICS is supposed to be pretty slick. And they do have an actual app ecosystem. Here is a picture of the kind of thing that will drink the rest of the PlayBook's milkshake:
Velocity Micro announces two new Android 4.0 tablets coming to CES

And of course the *rumoured* budget iPad will drive a stake through whatever is left if it is released this spring.

[VerryBestr]

As I said before, this is a great post. I like the way you think. You have a good (business) head on your shoulders. You and I can clank glasses when the pb gets cancelled and reminisce how we called it months ago.

Lots of backseat drivers here (including myself). I think that it is a good thing that someone else is doing the strategic thinking at RIM.

I have zero confidence in rim committing to the pb. It is a losing battle to enter the tablet market because of the fierce competition, and it is only going to get worst with the advent of windows 8. Win 8 tablet pcs might devastate the tablet market...but that is another discussion for another time.

Depends on which tablet market you are talking about. There is essentially no competition in the enterprise tablet market. Imagine, large enterprises deploying the Fire? In fact, large enterprises will generally not deploy any Android product, both because of security aspects and legal aspects (at least until the Oracle lawsuit is is settled).

They especially cannot sustain such massive losses.

"Massive" is relative and depends on your point of view. RIM writes down a much larger sum each year in its phone inventory (probably poor inventory management) than it did on the PlayBook.

[VerryBestr]

Is there any sign that RIM is actually putting together a Netflix-type media operation?

Well, RIM has announced that this video/film store will be delivered with the version 2 PlayBook system.

Here's some speculation about how RIM would do that, and it does seem possible:

BlackBerry Video Store � Powered By� QuickPlay Media? | Will Robertson's Blog
One possible partner is QuickPlay Media, a company that bills itself as a �Managed service provider for delivering video to tablets�. QuickPlay Media�s primary offering is a white label video management and delivery system for mobile devices, exactly what RIM needs. RIM has already partnered with QuickPlay Media before, to have them power another BlackBerry branded service, BlackBerry Podcasts for BlackBerry smartphones and the PlayBook. Another interesting connection between the two companies is QuickPlay Media�s movie rental app, Pocket Cinema, only available for the BlackBerry Torch in the UK. This application allows customers to rent, download, and watch movies on their BlackBerry Torch. Sounds quite similar to the BlackBerry Video Store.

QuickPlay Media Takes Over Network Control Center from Qualcomm�s Flo TV | Xconomy
QuickPlay is using the 30,000-square-foot control center [built by QualComm], which includes a nearby satellite dish farm, to manage the satellite-based feed and Internet Protocol (IP)-based distribution of both live and on-demand content for customers like AT&T, T-Mobile, Sirius XM Radio, Motorola Mobility, Research in Motion, and Sony Pictures Entertainment.

QuickPlay Media Introduces Pocket Cinema Service for BlackBerry Torch | N4BB - News for BlackBerry - leaks, rumors, videos, faqs, reviews
Beginning today, BlackBerry Torch users [in the UK] will have access to a catalogue of hundreds of films by simply downloading Pocket Cinema on BlackBerry App World�. Users will then be able to access the movies on their BlackBerry� smartphone. Once downloaded over Wi-Fi�, the film is cached on the device and available for an unlimited number of views for 48 hours. Users don�t need a mobile signal or network connection in order to view films they have downloaded.

QuickPlay Media - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
QuickPlay Media is a privately held company that provides solutions for the distribution of premium video to portable wireless devices. The company�s OpenVideo platform powers mobile video services for live TV, video on demand (VOD) and radio services for companies including AT&T Wireless, Bell Mobility, Cricket Wireless, Motorola Mobility, Rogers Wireless, Research In Motion, Sirius XM, and U.S. Cellular.
QuickPlay was founded in April 2004 and is headquartered in Toronto, Ontario; with offices throughout the US and in London, England. The company currently has 1 million content assets under management.

[kb5zht]

It wasn't "sold", it was "shipped",

Exactly but thats not good for RIM's case, because those werent numbers shipped to consumers but to retailers.

[peter9477]

Exactly but thats not good for RIM's case, because those werent numbers shipped to consumers but to retailers.

Except that, at least in North America, we know they repeatedly ran out of stock at basically all locations.

We can't directly use the shipped numbers to tell how many are in people's hands, but we can certainly infer from anecdotal reports that things are looking pretty good for most of those shipped units to actually have been sold.

[Interloper.]

More bad news for the PlayBook.

Reports of a $200 7" tablet from *Google*.
Jan 5 report from Taiwan (you know,where the Playbook is manufactured):

Google tablet PC believed to be targeting Kindle Fire

"Targeting Kindle Fire", because the PlayBook is, well, you know...

[blackjack93117]

LOL I guess good news/bad news is all in the eyes of the interpreter - what's the article got to do with the playbook? what a stretch.

All I saw was a blackberry playbook ad smack dab in the middle of it rflmao

good news to me

[Interloper.]

LOL I guess good news/bad news is all in the eyes of the interpreter - what's the article got to do with the playbook? what a stretch.

All I saw was a blackberry playbook ad smack dab in the middle of it rflmao

good news to me

"what's the article got to do with the playbook?"

The PlayBook is, to be charitable, struggling in the present competitive landscape for tablets. As more and more tablets enter the market with features (eg the really handy 7" screen size that I so enjoy ) and prices ( eg the "budget" Android tablets I mentioned a few posts ago
Velocity Micro announces two new Android 4.0 tablets coming to CES ) that are comparable or perhaps superior to the PlayBook, the number of consumers that choose the PlayBook will naturally decrease.

Now Google reportedly joins the dogpile with a 7" $200 tablet? I'm no Economist 101, but the fact that this decreases the chances of the PlayBook continuing in any form should be self evident.

Re your next statement:
"All I saw was a blackberry playbook ad smack dab in the middle of it rflmao"

When you finish rflmao and get back in front of your computer, Google "Google revenue stream". How do you think Google makes the majority of their vast profits? Internet users such as you and I are tracked for our interests. The most obvious way is Google web searches themselves, but there are others (cookies etc). I spent part of the Christmas holidays in Whistler BC. Great place, but I don't want to digress. My wife booked the hotel etc online using Google searches for "Hotels Whistler BC" etc.
A couple of days ago my wife was online. I walked by and saw a full page height ad for Whistler Blackcomb Resort. Coincidence? No. Google tracked my wifes web searches. Whistler bought this data, or more specifically paid Google to push their ads to consumers who, through their search history etc, have a higher probability of consuming the products and services that Whistler offers.

You, I think it is fair to say, have an interest in the Playbook. You, I think it is fair to say, have searched the web for info on the Playbook. You have been targeted by RIM through Google for ads related to PlayBook.

I use ad blocking software on Snow Leopard or the "Reader" function available in iOS 5 to decrease these intrusions. Can't do that when I'm searching with the PlayBook since as far as I know ad blocking software or the Reader function is unavailable on the PlayBook. I've heard reports that a Reader-like feature will be available on PlayBook OS2. Here's hoping it makes it.

[blackjack93117]

Not interested - there is nothing to debate about. I have no need to convince you otherwise or to be convinced otherwise.

I'm already convinced RIM is not giving up on the playbook- the only thing I see left of this thread is (only) three people futilely trying to convince the world otherwise.

Three people who will be "clanking glasses" if they are right - rather sick if you ask me, celebrating bad news and failure. Will you get a reward for your hard work? I don't get what drives you.

And nobody is listening. Except me, I'm just kind of lurking in amusement at all of these tl;dr posts.

But knock yourselves out.

[RimUnlock]

Despite how it may seem a lot of people have playbooks now. Not just blackberry lovers and people on this forum. I had got my playbook a few months ago and after that many of my friends and a lot of other random people picked them up as well because of all the sales. I love my playbook. I'm interested to see what will happen when the full version of 2.0 (finally) comes out.

[mike4444]

yes i prefer to deal with what is and what i have rather than what might be and i what i don't have keeps me real......

[RimUnlock]

I know what you mean. As is I love my playbook and what I can do with it but I feel the android support is what will make a difference to people outside the blackberry world.

[blackjack93117]

On topic:
Why would RIM give up on playbook when THIS is about to emerge?

[Superfly_FR]

I've been reading this thread with much attention (and patience sometimes) and it seems that no one include something like "product cycle of life" reflexion. By product, I mean "tablet", the strange "spoutnik" no one was giving a dime when S.J came and made it popular.
What do we have now ?
A massive decreasing market for personal laptops, because of the ease of use and - somehow - attractive cost of tablets. BUT, most of us still see a tablet as if it should only compare to the pioneer Ipad. It's not anymore; tablets are now mostly personal assistants and infotainement devices, with bigger screens and power than phones or portable gaming devices.
Now, the market is mature, but the usage of tablet is still narrow. The future is to come, and no winner at this point can be stated as the winner of tomorrow, as nobody *really* answered the simple question : "what is this for ?", even if some can't resit to say "don't know, but there will be an app for that" (friendly joke, suitable for any brand).

[Pearl9100]

Lots of backseat drivers here (including myself). I think that it is a good thing that someone else is doing the strategic thinking at RIM.

Well, we care about rim. We just want them to succeed.

Depends on which tablet market you are talking about. There is essentially no competition in the enterprise tablet market. Imagine, large enterprises deploying the Fire? In fact, large enterprises will generally not deploy any Android product, both because of security aspects and legal aspects (at least until the Oracle lawsuit is is settled).

That is where win 8 comes in with tablets and tablet pcs.

"Massive" is relative and depends on your point of view. RIM writes down a much larger sum each year in its phone inventory (probably poor inventory management) than it did on the PlayBook.

almost half a billion is a lot in my books. You are talking like that is pocket change, which it clearly isn't. You cannot spin that into good news no matter how you cut it.

[Thunderbuck]

I have zero confidence in rim committing to the pb. It is a losing battle to enter the tablet market because of the fierce competition, and it is only going to get worst with the advent of windows 8...

I think there's room for the Playbook in the current market, or at least it's possible for RIM to elbow themselves out some room.

The device is still great. The ecosystem is growing. A selection of Android apps grows that ecosystem all the faster. And the developers who release programs for PB 2.0 are well-positioned to push apps out to BB10 when it arrives.

The only way I see the tablet being abandoned is if BB10 itself is scrapped. Possible, I grant, but if the board decides that's what has to be done then RIM is in much bigger trouble than any of us have heard to this point.

[Interloper.]

Not interested - there is nothing to debate about. I have no need to convince you otherwise or to be convinced otherwise.

I'm already convinced RIM is not giving up on the playbook- the only thing I see left of this thread is (only) three people futilely trying to convince the world otherwise.

Three people who will be "clanking glasses" if they are right - rather sick if you ask me, celebrating bad news and failure. Will you get a reward for your hard work? I don't get what drives you.

And nobody is listening. Except me, I'm just kind of lurking in amusement at all of these tl;dr posts.

But knock yourselves out.

Of course there is something to debate about. The thread title is "RIM is not giving up on the PlayBook". That, in my opinion, is most definitely debatable. That is why I am involved in this thread.

Do you seriously think that statement is not open for debate? That now there are 3 things certain on this earth? Death, taxes and Playbook will continue?

You don't see at least a *possibility* that RIM may make a strategic decision to concentrate its diminishing resources on areas that have not been shown to be so disastrous for the company? Indifferent sales are irrelevant? Terrible reviews are irrelevant? Repeated delays implementing features that should have been included from the beginning or at least released later on the promised schedule (eg email promised *last summer* and OS 2 this Fall [or was it summer?]). Open complaints about the PlayBook from major RIM investment groups? Losses on every sale? Shifts in the competitive landscape? Fine. You have made up your mind. Such certainty must be comforting to you in it's own way. Why don't you just sit back and relax and let people exchange ideas around this issue without interfering or meddling in the affairs of others that you have no interest in?
Quote from Blackjack:
"Not interested - there is nothing to debate about. I have no need to convince you otherwise or to be convinced otherwise."

Re nobody listening except you:
I'm pretty sure I saw this thread appear yesterday on the "Most viewed threads" list yesterday on the page http://forums.crackberry.com/

Re you "just kind of lurking":
I understand "lurking" in the context of internet forums as watching a thread or threads without posting on those threads.
eg "I lurked on the forum for a few weeks to see what kind of questions had been answered already, then I finally posted my question.
I can go back and do a BlackJack post count in this thread (or at least the posts that the mods haven't deleted yet) but I think we can safely assume that the term "lurking" doesn't apply to you here without needing detailed statistics.

[Thunderbuck]

That is where win 8 comes in with tablets and tablet pcs...

I'm a little skeptical on the impact of Win8 on tablets.

1. Microsoft has been trying to launch this literally for years, with only a few vertical-market successes
2. The devices--even the ARM-based ones--will be more costly to buy and maintain than even the iPad. Also likely larger, heavier, hotter, and shorter battery time.
3. They're also late to the market on this. In many enterprises, for instance, lots of apps have internal web interfaces that work just fine on an iPad or Playbook.
4. Mobile workers who are already on Blackberry are a natural for a PB, if only as an extension to their phones.

I'm looking forward to Win8, to be sure, and I'm not saying it will have NO impact, but in many ways it misses the point of the iPad or the Playbook.

[Interloper.]

On topic:
Why would RIM give up on playbook when THIS is about to emerge?

An oldy but a goody.
MONDAY, APRIL 18TH, 2011
BlackBerry PlayBook Getting Standalone E-Mail App Within 60 Days

"Luckily, Balsillie said that standalone, independent e-mail apps would be available within the next 60 days"
BlackBerry PlayBook Getting E-Mail App Within 60 Days

Promised June 18, 2011. I said promised in summer 2011, but technically speaking, that is *spring* 2011.

Fast forward to winter 2012. Let me check my email on the Playbook. Oh...

Don't you see the lack of / delay of this "promised feature" is one of the major reasons this product is in so much trouble?

[Pearl9100]

LOL I guess good news/bad news is all in the eyes of the interpreter - what's the article got to do with the playbook? what a stretch.

All I saw was a blackberry playbook ad smack dab in the middle of it rflmao

good news to me

Because it is called competition, which might further squeeze rim out of the market. I don't mind connecting the dots for others.

Not interested - there is nothing to debate about. I have no need to convince you otherwise or to be convinced otherwise.

I'm already convinced RIM is not giving up on the playbook- the only thing I see left of this thread is (only) three people futilely trying to convince the world otherwise.

Three people who will be "clanking glasses" if they are right - rather sick if you ask me, celebrating bad news and failure. Will you get a reward for your hard work? I don't get what drives you.

And nobody is listening. Except me, I'm just kind of lurking in amusement at all of these tl;dr posts.

But knock yourselves out.

Feel free to lurk. I cannot stop you. But we'll be clanking glasses because we were right, not because rim is losing. I have been right about bbx phones not coming out of q1 of 2012. I have been right about os 7 phones not being stop gap devices. I have been right about the torch not being a huge hit with all the lag issues. And I'll be right about the pb being discontinued. Just search. I have gone on record and said all of those things, which were all right.

I just cannot see how rim can continue to plow forward like this with such huge losses and brand erosion due to the constant pb discounting. It is what it is.

[blackjack93117]

Of course it's open for debate - just saying I'm not personally interested in debating... already convinced. What's the point? Que sera sara...

Cornered me? lol I'm not even involved in this discussion, nor is anyone else, really. I'm not even reading these lengthy posts...why are you trying so hard to win against an imaginary opponent? You guys really have a stake in this. Almost like you're trying desperately to convince yourselves.
It's getting funnier.
methinks you protest too much

[Thunderbuck]

...You don't see at least a *possibility* that RIM may make a strategic decision to concentrate its diminishing resources on areas that have not been shown to be so disastrous for the company? Indifferent sales are irrelevant? Terrible reviews are irrelevant? Repeated delays implementing features that should have been included from the beginning or at least released later on the promised schedule (eg email promised *last summer* and OS 2 this Fall [or was it summer?]). Open complaints about the PlayBook from major RIM investment groups? Losses on every sale? Shifts in the competitive landscape? Fine. You have made up your mind. Such certainty must be comforting to you in it's own way. Why don't you just sit back and relax and let people exchange ideas around this issue without interfering or meddling in the affairs of others that you have no interest in?

Only some of this is relevant. Continuing work on the PB isn't distracting resources when you bear in mind that pretty much all of that engineering work applies to the BB10 phones too. Call me when RIM announces they're dropping that.

"Indifferent sales"? Sure. They've taken a half-billion writedown on that already. Meaning any remaining stock is essentially pure profit for this year. The current stock of devices is paid for. I'll be the first to admit the PB was priced wrong out of the gate, because no matter how nice the device was, without Apple's supporting ecosystem the Playbook simply did not represent the same value as an iPad. RIM had no business pricing them that way. I think RIM has the chance to improve the value proposition for the Playbook with the 2.0 reboot, and I hope they take full advantage of that.

"Terrible reviews"? Really? I don't even recall seeing a "bad" review. I even recall an editor at BGR calling the Playbook his favorite tablet, even with reservations about the app ecosystem. Most reviews I saw gave high praise to the Playbook's quality, aesthetics, performance, and swipe-based UI, and questioned its lack of native PIM, dearth of apps in App World, and the design of the power button. The app situation has improved considerably, the native PIM will be here soon. I can live with the power button (NOTE: I'm operating under the assumption that PB OS 2 will drop roughly around the time RIM has said it would. If I'm wrong I have to take much of this back, I know).

[Pearl9100]

I'm a little skeptical on the impact of Win8 on tablets.

1. Microsoft has been trying to launch this literally for years, with only a few vertical-market successes
2. The devices--even the ARM-based ones--will be more costly to buy and maintain than even the iPad. Also likely larger, heavier, hotter, and shorter battery time.
3. They're also late to the market on this. In many enterprises, for instance, lots of apps have internal web interfaces that work just fine on an iPad or Playbook.
4. Mobile workers who are already on Blackberry are a natural for a PB, if only as an extension to their phones.

I'm looking forward to Win8, to be sure, and I'm not saying it will have NO impact, but in many ways it misses the point of the iPad or the Playbook.

You bring up a good point. Microsoft has been trying to crack this market for a while. I had a vista tablet pc, so I agree with you on that front.

However, the difference is that win 8 is built from the ground up with the touch screen ui deeply integrated into the os, which I think will make the difference. The only thing I can see that can prevent this whole win 8 touch screen from taking off is if the cost is too high. We are in an economic slump in the states and companies or individuals may not be willing to invest in touchscreens.

Of course there is something to debate about. The thread title is "RIM is not giving up on the PlayBook". That, in my opinion, is most definitely debatable. That is why I am involved in this thread.

Do you seriously think that statement is not open for debate? That now there are 3 things certain on this earth? Death, taxes and Playbook will continue?

You don't see at least a *possibility* that RIM may make a strategic decision to concentrate its diminishing resources on areas that have not been shown to be so disastrous for the company? Indifferent sales are irrelevant? Terrible reviews are irrelevant? Repeated delays implementing features that should have been included from the beginning or at least released later on the promised schedule (eg email promised *last summer* and OS 2 this Fall [or was it summer?]). Open complaints about the PlayBook from major RIM investment groups? Losses on every sale? Shifts in the competitive landscape? Fine. You have made up your mind. Such certainty must be comforting to you in it's own way. Why don't you just sit back and relax and let people exchange ideas around this issue without interfering or meddling in the affairs of others that you have no interest in?
Quote from Blackjack:
"Not interested - there is nothing to debate about. I have no need to convince you otherwise or to be convinced otherwise."

Re nobody listening except you:
I'm pretty sure I saw this thread appear yesterday on the "Most viewed threads" list yesterday on the page http://forums.crackberry.com/

Re you "just kind of lurking":
I understand "lurking" in the context of internet forums as watching a thread or threads without posting on those threads.
eg "I lurked on the forum for a few weeks to see what kind of questions had been answered already, then I finally posted my question.
I can go back and do a BlackJack post count in this thread (or at least the posts that the mods haven't deleted yet) but I think we can safely assume that the term "lurking" doesn't apply to you here without needing detailed statistics.

Wow...I think you pretty much cornered blackjack with logic, reason, and, most importantly, evidence.

[Thunderbuck]

Don't you see the lack of / delay of this "promised feature" is one of the major reasons this product is in so much trouble?

And agreed, the whole native PIM thing is central to why the Playbook as a product has gotten screwed around, but again, it's fixable and it's not a reflection on the product.

It's not rocket science to implement an e-mail interface on QNX. That's never been the problem. The problem has been in making the decision as to HOW that e-mail interface would store account info, and whether it would use BIS or not.

I don't doubt they could have made that "60 day" target. What happened was they chose not to, likely due to some in-fighting. I'm more concerned about RIM's ability to address THAT.