07-23-11 03:47 PM
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  1. lnichols's Avatar
    Dear RIM,

    I'm sick and tired of all the whining here on Crackberry about wanting updates, then when you provide them people whining that it isn't enough. I know that the Crypto Kernel for the Tablet OS is almost approved and that not having it approved is probably holding up some key features for the Playbook. Will you please address the Crackberry community and let them know what features are on hold until you have the FIPS 140-2 certificate issued by NIST in hand? This will not only go a long way to actually communicating with people who adopted the Playbook expecting these features to be available, but it will provide education to others about why some of these certifications are important to you as a company and your products. Not communicating with the public and customers just lets them criticize you and your products with their own misguided assumptions.
    07-19-11 10:30 AM
  2. Gucci33's Avatar
    Do you work at/for rim?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-19-11 10:36 AM
  3. Fubaz's Avatar
    Do you work at/for rim?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    I would say no, he might have an inside edge, or read the right blogs.

    There are 2 contributing members of CB that we know of, and are here kind of on behalf of RIM.
    07-19-11 10:50 AM
  4. lnichols's Avatar
    Do you work at/for rim?

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    No I don't work for RIM. I do contracting for the Federal Government and have been dealing with the requirement of FIPS approval, and the agony of waiting for it for many devices (not smartphones though) for a while. I'm waiting on other devices to get approval now and can't deploy them until they are approved.
    tstrike34 likes this.
    07-19-11 10:55 AM
  5. veldacy1's Avatar
    That right! and maybe they're waiting for the Crypto Kernel before they release some kind of ability to organize my browser bookmarks too, so back off!!
    kevinnugent likes this.
    07-19-11 11:33 AM
  6. AngusMcTavish's Avatar
    Why does a WiFI only device called a PLAYbook need a crypto kernel? Considering the BB is already encrypted, therefore it makes sense that Bridge communications are already encrypted, wouldn't it make sense that other "on device" features don't necessarily need to wait for crypto? Spellcheck doesn't need to be secure, a POP-Mail (IMAP etc) doesn't need to wait (unless the user chooses to wait), 3rd party apps don't need to wait... Doesn't make much sense to me when the current communications are already encrypted.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    07-19-11 11:42 AM
  7. TBone4eva's Avatar
    Dear RIM,

    I'm sick and tired of all the whining here on Crackberry about wanting updates, then when you provide them people whining that it isn't enough. I know that the Crypto Kernel for the Tablet OS is almost approved and that not having it approved is probably holding up some key features for the Playbook. Will you please address the Crackberry community and let them know what features are on hold until you have the FIPS 140-2 certificate issued by NIST in hand? This will not only go a long way to actually communicating with people who adopted the Playbook expecting these features to be available, but it will provide education to others about why some of these certifications are important to you as a company and your products. Not communicating with the public and customers just lets them criticize you and your products with their own misguided assumptions.
    Hmmm, I can see the headlines in the media and blogs: RIM Blames US Government for Native Email Delay. Yeah, that would go over real well with the government folks, I'm sure .
    07-19-11 11:50 AM
  8. narci's Avatar
    Not sure why you all are jumping on the OP's throat about spellcheck and bookmarks.

    OP never made any reference to any specific 'key feature' being held up.
    07-19-11 11:54 AM
  9. 312's Avatar
    Dear RIM,

    I'm sick and tired of all the whining here on Crackberry about wanting updates, then when you provide them people whining that it isn't enough.
    It's not that we are just asking for any old update...

    We are asking for what we were SOLD ON by RIM. We're not asking for anything far fetched. Just what RIM promised.
    07-19-11 11:58 AM
  10. TBone4eva's Avatar
    Why does a WiFI only device called a PLAYbook need a crypto kernel? Considering the BB is already encrypted, therefore it makes sense that Bridge communications are already encrypted, wouldn't it make sense that other "on device" features don't necessarily need to wait for crypto? Spellcheck doesn't need to be secure, a POP-Mail (IMAP etc) doesn't need to wait (unless the user chooses to wait), 3rd party apps don't need to wait... Doesn't make much sense to me when the current communications are already encrypted.
    You do realize that this is supposed to be a BlackBerry also, right? RIM can't come out with a simple POP mail client. They would get hit hard for not taking advantage of their infrastructure for push email. RIM keeps telling people that you don't need a BB to use the PB, but it's suppose to be an enterprise grade tablet. If they are going to do native email, then they should do it right and do it the BlackBerry way fully leveraging one of their greatest strengths. That means they have to assure businesses and government that email will be secure.
    slbailey1 likes this.
    07-19-11 12:04 PM
  11. lnichols's Avatar
    It's not that we are just asking for any old update...

    We are asking for what we were SOLD ON by RIM. We're not asking for anything far fetched. Just what RIM promised.
    And I'm asking RIM to provide some communication on what features are being held up because of this certification.
    JonManu and tstrike34 like this.
    07-19-11 12:05 PM
  12. kb5zht's Avatar
    It's not that we are just asking for any old update...

    We are asking for what we were SOLD ON by RIM. We're not asking for anything far fetched. Just what RIM promised.
    Thank you?

    Why is this so hard to understand? And dont tell me about a new platform taking time, it is well known that even before september of 2010 when they announced what we already knew they had been working on it for months.

    The problem isnt the playbook, qnx or the man in the moon, it is the bad administration in tje company, the lack of operational discipline and responsibility of middle management.

    The two tools running rim cant make up their mind what they want to do and the middle level bosses wont stay on the codrs to do their friggin job.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    Last edited by kb5zht; 07-19-11 at 12:29 PM.
    07-19-11 12:08 PM
  13. AngusMcTavish's Avatar
    You do realize that this is supposed to be a BlackBerry also, right? RIM can't come out with a simple POP mail client. They would get hit hard for not taking advantage of their infrastructure for push email. RIM keeps telling people that you don't need a BB to use the PB, but it's suppose to be an enterprise grade tablet. If they are going to do native email, then they should do it right and do it the BlackBerry way fully leveraging one of their greatest strengths. That means they have to assure businesses and government that email will be secure.
    I didn't realize it was supposed to be a blackberry. I bought it because it was advertised as a Tablet companion to my Blackberry. My mistake.
    raremage likes this.
    07-19-11 12:08 PM
  14. lawguyman's Avatar
    RIM released other devices without NIST certification, which came after they were released. NIST has nothing to do with this delay. It is all on RIM.
    scorpiodsu, sayg, raremage and 1 others like this.
    07-19-11 12:14 PM
  15. kb5zht's Avatar
    RIM released other devices without NIST certification, which came after they were released. NIST has nothing to do with this delay. It is all on RIM.
    Heh yet another rim apologist's excuse debunked.

    Thanks for the info, too, i wasnt aware the phones were released without it as well.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    07-19-11 12:31 PM
  16. samab's Avatar
    As others had already stated, RIM had in the past released products that weren't originally FIPS certified --- it just means that if a certain government department requires FIPS on their devices, then they can't deploy the Playbook right now.

    Also, the current theory is that this is mainly a server side issue with the old one PIN per user email infrastructure --- which has nothing to do with the client side crypto kernel at all.
    07-19-11 12:38 PM
  17. FMB8900's Avatar
    great post man! thanks!
    07-19-11 12:39 PM
  18. newcollector's Avatar
    It's not that we are just asking for any old update...

    We are asking for what we were SOLD ON by RIM. We're not asking for anything far fetched. Just what RIM promised.
    What RIM promised they have delivered. The Promise was that these features you want/expect will be available this summer. Summer is not over, yet. And just in case you may be referring to the "promise" of 60 day native email, the words "promise" were never said by RIM's co-CEO's.
    07-19-11 12:52 PM
  19. lnichols's Avatar
    Heh yet another rim apologist's excuse debunked.

    Thanks for the info, too, i wasnt aware the phones were released without it as well.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    The phones are released with a crypto kernel that is very close in revision to the previous approved versions, and is on the BBOS so their is an extremely high degree of confidence in them and they require less testing. He is referring to the Torch (seen this brought up by him before) which had Kernel 3.8.6.5. The Previous approved version prior to that was 3.8.5.85 on the Storm2. Government agencies wouldn't have been able to use the Torch till approved, if they are following the rules, but their is an extremely high degree of confidence the device will pass since it is a minor revision. Something that has been FIPS approved usually can get through revisions much quicker. I bet the OS7 devices will have a 3.8.7.X or 3.8.6.X crypto kernel so they should be quick. This is a totally new product so the process is longer since they aren't leveraging a previous approved line of code. The product I'm waiting on went into testing, they found issues, fixed then and is now back into testing. My guess is that RIM had some issue that were found early, and had some delays too. The Playbook is now out of testing, and they are in Coordination with NIST which means they are righting up the security docs and such now.
    Last edited by lnichols; 07-19-11 at 01:38 PM.
    grover5 likes this.
    07-19-11 01:17 PM
  20. 312's Avatar
    Summer is not over, yet. And just in case you may be referring to the "promise" of 60 day native email, the words "promise" were never said by RIM's co-CEO's.
    I never said summer was over, nor did I say RIM failed to deliver. Why are you trying to make it seem like we're wrong for wanting these features at the BEGINNING or MIDDLE of the summer? Just because summer isn't over yet, doesn't mean that they have to be delivered at the end. RIM has a track record of being tardy- we all know this. "Summer" can turn into "Christmas", which can easily turn into "Valentine's Day".

    Also, maybe you should lookup the definition of "promise". A person doesn't have to say the word "promise" verbally to relay the message. I'm sure you didn't verbally tell your bank "I promise to make my mortgage/car payments", or your children "I promise to always protect you". (if you have children, that is. if not, I'm sure you get my point). Point is, it's perfectly ok for them to assume, just like it's perfectly ok for US to assume that when the highest ranking officers of a corporation (that each of us dish out thousands of dollars toward) say something is going to get done, it will get done.

    promise/ˈprməs/
    Noun: A declaration or assurance that one will do a particular thing or that guarantees that a particular thing will happen.
    RIM declared, in an effort to assure its customers that the PlayBook was a worthwhile investment, to deliver on certain features. Well...we paid for our PlayBooks 3 months ago and now we'd like said features. Why is that so CRAZY of us?
    07-19-11 01:33 PM
  21. SlcCorrado's Avatar
    The phones are released with a crypto kernel that is very close in revision to the previous approved versions, and is on the BBOS so their is an extremely high degree of confidence in them and they require less testing. He is referring to the Torch (seen this brought up by him before) which had Kernel 3.8.6.5. The Previous approved version prior to that was 3.8.5.85 on the Storm2. Government agencies wouldn't have been able to use the Torch till approved, if they are following the rules, but their is an extremely high degree of confidence the device will pass since it is a minor revision. Something that has been FIPS approved usually can get through revisions much quicker. I bet the OS7 devices will have a 3.8.7.X or 3.8.6.X crypto kernel so they should be quick. This is a totally new product so the process is longer since they aren't leveraging a previous approved line of code. The product I'm waiting on went into testing, they found issues, fixed then and is now back into testing. My guess is that RIM had some issue that were found early, and had some delays too. The Playbook is now out of testing, and they are in Coordination with NIST which means they are righting up the security docs and such now.
    This coupled with others complaints of "bad management" seems like the most logical explanation...
    07-19-11 01:44 PM
  22. lawguyman's Avatar
    The phones are released with a crypto kernel that is very close in revision to the previous approved versions, and is on the BBOS so their is an extremely high degree of confidence in them and they require less testing. He is referring to the Torch (seen this brought up by him before) which had Kernel 3.8.6.5. The Previous approved version prior to that was 3.8.5.85 on the Storm2. Government agencies wouldn't have been able to use the Torch till approved, if they are following the rules, but their is an extremely high degree of confidence the device will pass since it is a minor revision. Something that has been FIPS approved usually can get through revisions much quicker. I bet the OS7 devices will have a 3.8.7.X or 3.8.6.X crypto kernel so they should be quick. This is a totally new product so the process is longer since they aren't leveraging a previous approved line of code. The product I'm waiting on went into testing, they found issues, fixed then and is now back into testing. My guess is that RIM had some issue that were found early, and had some delays too. The Playbook is now out of testing, and they are in Coordination with NIST which means they are righting up the security docs and such now.
    Even though I disagree with you for the reasons that I mentioned, I do agree that it would be nice of RIM explained itself by providing an update on its roadmap. The response the Balsillie gave in response to the question about mail at the AGM was not encouraging.
    07-19-11 01:47 PM
  23. pkcable's Avatar
    We would just like some honest communication. Not "I never said 60 days"
    07-19-11 01:52 PM
  24. lawguyman's Avatar
    I have to imagine that this topic came up when Kevin made his pilgrimage to Waterloo. Kevin is keeping everything that he learned to himself.
    07-19-11 02:12 PM
  25. lnichols's Avatar
    Even though I disagree with you for the reasons that I mentioned, I do agree that it would be nice of RIM explained itself by providing an update on its roadmap. The response the Balsillie gave in response to the question about mail at the AGM was not encouraging.
    I would like to see this too. I have no problem with the fact that they didn't have everything ready from the get go, but it has been 90 days and I feel that we early adopters are owed some communication from RIM on what's going on and what's the holdup.
    07-19-11 02:12 PM
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